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Team Rocket's Island Challenge? Get a Z-Ring (1016)

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
WI agree. That's one thing I really didn't like about this episode. Jessie didn't actually earn the Mimikum Z. Mimi-tan gave it to her—if I understood correctly, because it wanted her and Mimikyu to be able to use Let's Snuggle Together. Going by what Kiawe said about Z-Moves in the beginning of the series, Jessie and Mimikyu shouldn't be able to use Z-Moves together because they didn't actually earn the Z-Crystal. IMHO, Jessie obtaining Mimikium Z so easily just undermines that value and importance of Z-Moves.

I can see Jessie having difficulties using the Z Crystal at first since Mimikyu isn't really on the same boat as her, which could have potential as a character arc and means Mareanie and Darkium Z will get regular focus up until then.

In fairness 'earning' the Z Crystal seems a subjective statement in the anime anyway, since most of them are handed from people or Pokemon for performing what they think is a suitable accomplishment. Yeah Ash's first one broke, but since it was a trial arranged by the Tapus and Ash at first had no real idea what he was doing, it being disposed of afterwards makes sense, and even some later 'earned' Z Crystals have suffered from malfunctions (eg. Lycanroc and Popplio), if not to that degree.

I do agree James did most of the hard work to 'earn' Mimikium Z if saving her and neutralising Gengar was considered Acerola's reasoning, though Jessie wasn't useless I suppose.
 
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Akkipeddi

Materia Hunter
I can see Jessie having difficulties using the Z Crystal at first since Mimikyu isn't really on the same boat as her, which could have potential as a character arc and means Mareanie and Darkium Z will get regular focus up until then.

Except that's almost certainly not the case, since in the extended preview of the Ula'ula arc, it showed Jessie using Let's Snuggle Forever in the thrifty minimart, and that short scene suggests that Jessie and Mimikyu have already mastered the Z Move, as Mimikyu clearly looked ready to use that move.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Except that's almost certainly not the case, since in the extended preview of the Ula'ula arc, it showed Jessie using Let's Snuggle Forever in the thrifty minimart, and that short scene suggests that Jessie and Mimikyu have already mastered the Z Move, as Mimikyu clearly looked ready to use that move.

It shown they got the posing right, it doesn't mean the attack will pull off. Remember Lycanroc got as far as making the giant boulder for Continental Crush first time round, then it just dissolved.
 

satopi

Go’s Scizor needs to Hassam better episodes:/
Ahhh this was awesome!! From the appearances of previous characters to the TRio (specifically James being the one to use the Z Move), this was so good even to someone who's indifferent or doesn't like Team Rocket. First off, I liked the introduction of Acerola. She, her Mimikyu, and even the mischievous Gengar seem sweet and good hearted. Props on the TRio to take care of the issue of Bewear butting in the way.

It was so awesome watching James get handed the Z Ring, Marieanie, using a Z Move, and together (Jessie, James and Meowth) performing the Z Move as a team. :D It was hilarious seeing Gengar possess Meowth and Jessie. I loved that Meowth was able to viciously attack them with Fury Swipes yet is still weak as ever while Jessie is a complete zombie!! :p Nanu seems cool. I liked that Mimi tan gave them the Mimikyuium Z Crystal and they left it off with Ash on a boat towards Ula Ula Island. We don't get much episodes where Ash and Pikachu are barely shown so this was nice for a change. One thing doesn't change and that's never trusting Meowth/Persian. They're always up to no good. Poor Meowth. :( Lol at the after credit scene.

I'm just so overjoyed to see James get some focus/importance and being of good use!! We've been waiting for your time to shine James! :D
 
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AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
I like Team Rocket when they're doing things outside of their usual stealing Pokemon and losing against the twerps, especially Ash. It's also a refreshing change that Bewear didn't take them away since the latters were able to outsmart it with decoys.

Acelora is cute with that cat-like smile and Mimi-tan is cute too, although I would like to see it interacting with Jessie's Mimikyu and Ash's Pikachu.

It's good that James got a Z-ring while Jessie's got a Mimikyuium Z, but I doubt it's gonna make themselves more threatening against the twerps if the past series gave us any reminders. I like when they did the Z move dance together.

I see that Gengar is mischievous, although it doesn't try to injure anyone, just having fun of its freedom. And of course, Ash had to appear at the end of the episode, reminding what this show is mainly about. Awesome Team Rocket episode.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
It's good that James got a Z-ring while Jessie's got a Mimikyuium Z, but I doubt it's gonna make themselves more threatening against the twerps if the past series gave us any reminders. I like when they did the Z move dance together

I have a wary feeling that they'll just do what usually happens when TR get an upper hand and just spam 'fluke wins' for the twerps like Bewear or DEM move learns/evolutions. The writers rarely force the twerps to use their full IQ and strength against the likes of TR.

I'll give this plus points if it leads to at least one decent battle against the twerps.

Still showing TR actually working their way through a level grind is a nice change. I'm actually kind of hoping this isn't a one off thing and we still focus on them collecting more resources over just standard twerp face offs. If Matori is still keeping check on them, they'll likely have to keep adding something new to the table.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
Wow, a TR episode I really enjoyed! Its so great when that happens. I loved how they put in voiced dolls in the HQ to trick Bewear into thinking they were there.

TR and Mareani performing Black Hole Eclipse was amazing and inserting TR's song was a neat touch. This is the first time that we have a non-Normal-type Z move being used without the Pokémon being that type.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
In fairness 'earning' the Z Crystal seems a subjective statement in the anime anyway, since most of them are handed from people or Pokemon for performing what they think is a suitable accomplishment. Yeah Ash's first one broke, but since it was a trial arranged by the Tapus and Ash at first had no real idea what he was doing, it being disposed of afterwards makes sense, and even some later 'earned' Z Crystals have suffered from malfunctions (eg. Lycanroc and Popplio), if not to that degree.
Team Rocket had no more of an idea of what they were doing than Ash did when he first stated his Island Challenge. If anything, I would say Team Rocket is less knowledgeable about the Island Challenge than Ash was when he first started. (I mean, did anyone ever teach them the pose for Black Hole Eclipse? How did they learn it?) At least in Ash's case, it was a trial arranged by Tapu Koko. Jessie was just handed the Mimikium Z, with no trial and without really earning it. By your logic, it should shatter the first time she tries to use it.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
As mentioned the Tapus arranged it, they could have easily set it up to break first time or something to make sure he was ready for it. We have no idea how it was set about.

Individuals set about what a trial is, Acerola could have easily considered the Gengar situation a 'trial' of sorts. Yeah it's kinda half baked but so is 'Beat me and I'll give ya this'.

I get the Inkayling that something will go wrong when Jessie and Mimikyu uses it anyway. And either way they're unlikely to beat Ash. Karma will kick in eventually, it's freaking Team Rocket.

Considering the pose, that is a mystery, though Team Rocket do spy on the twerps and others regularly, and they've had a lot of time to figure out the mechanics.
 
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Epicocity

Well-Known Member
In general, the rules regarding Z-Moves are played fast and loose. Early episodes suggested they were something sacred and not to be used lightly...only to be spammed for comedy and then suddenly played straight again a few episodes later. I'm not surprised there's no real consistency between Ash and TRio.

Plus, SM has pretty much become Handouts: The Series for everyone not Lana or Kiawe, so that has an impact as well.
 
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mehmeh1

Time to crunch some binomials......with magic
is this the (main series) episode with the least amount of screentime for ash?
 

jinnrob

Water Pokemon Master
I'm watching the episode now... let me preface this by saying that my Japanese is pretty good... but I think I must be misunderstanding this episode. Is that Gengar formerly a human? Like Team Rocket disturbed its grave and it became a pokemon? Did that actually just happen? Like.... how!?!?

Can we all become Ghost Pokemon?
 

Zyar

Unknown Member
Also, the SM series seems determined to paint Jessie off as a b**** to her teammates. First, we have her stealing James's Luxury Ball to catch Mimikyu. Then, we have her eating Meowth's ice cream, causing him to run away. Now, we have her trying to eat James's cream puff (or whatever that was).

I'm not defending Jessie, but inconsiderate/selfish is not the same as b*tch. Those are really small things considering all the other nice gestures she's had in Sun and Moon.

On another note: Can we take amusement in the fact that TEAM ROCKET mastered a Z Move perfectly on their first try, when even Ash and Kiawe have suffered teething problems?

I was expecting them to struggle before this episode was announced. And even then, I wasn't sure we'd get to see Black Hole Eclipse in this episode, which gave room for another one where they'd try to master the move and fail a couple times. But no, James got it in his first try. (he's the real future pokémon master)

I do agree James did most of the hard work to 'earn' Mimikium Z if saving her and neutralising Gengar was considered Acerola's reasoning, though Jessie wasn't useless I suppose.

Meh, I don't mind since it was Jessie's Mimikyu the one who defeated Totem Raticate and earned them the Dark-Crystal; so it was technically Jessie's victory. And, at the end, it was James and Mareanie the ones who ended up using that crystal. It's a nice balance that, this time, James and Mareanie were the ones who defeated Gengar but it's Jessie the one ending up with a Z-Crystal in return. I think we're supposed to considerate all Team Rocket's victories as team efforts, for which they're all equally deserving, even if we know that's not true.

Besides, the way I understood it, Mimi-tan just liked Jessie and her Mimikyu, or was even grateful to them for throwing that Shadow Ball to save Acerola when Gengar was trying to... uhm, put her inside itself, and that's why it gave the Mimikyum Z to Jessie. Good enough reason for me.

I'm just so overjoyed to see James get some focus/importance and being of good use!! We've been waiting for your time to shine James! :D

To be honest, I would've preferred if the focus was a little more on James and Mareanie and less in the the whole TRio. It was nice seeing them all do the pose together, but it's still James and Mareanie's Z-move. I hope future episodes focus more on the bond needed between them to perform that Z-move, but I doubt it.

-----

On a side note, I'm really salty Jessie and James and their pokémon will be using Z-moves now while Meowth always gets nothing... Well, maybe not salty, since I like Jessie and James and I enjoyed thoroughly this episode, but sad. I picked the wrong character to be my favorite when I started watching Pokémon lol
 
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Lucario At Service

Calm Trainer
One thing was interesting to note (which i forgot to comment on yesterday), but it seems JJ&M ended up getting the new type of Z-Ring from Nanu (a.k.a, the Z-Power Ring), as opposed to the normal one.

Wonder how Nanu ended up getting that version of Z-Ring, when Ash got his after that special ritual by the four Tapu's.
 

Akkipeddi

Materia Hunter
After watching this episode again, I have a lot of questions regarding Z Moves since there seems to be quite a bit of plot inconsistency behind them.

Firstly, I personally feel that the series has done a really shoddy job at explaining and depicting Z Rings and Z Crystals. The first episode tried to depict Z Moves as this sacred technique, with Kiawe looking like someone who was dead serious about them, and gave off this vibe that they are tough to find. Then over time, he himself has been reduced to comedy relief, along with his usage of Z Moves.

They made Ash's first Z Crystal break because he hadn't cleared a trial which is needed as proof of a user's ability, yet Jessie is able to get a Mimikium Z for no good reason other than Mimi wanting to see Jessie's Mimikyu using the move.

Also, based on what Matori said, Z Rings are kept and given out by Island Kahunas, which we saw with Hala, and probably how Gladion got his from Olivia. Even Ash's Z Ring, which was given by Tapu Koko, was from Hala since it just stole it. Yet, how did Lana manage to magically find a Z Ring ore?

And lastly, now we find out that Z Power Rings are nothing special since Nanu had one and just gave one away to TR like nobody's business. That just makes Ash's Z Power Ring feel so idiotic since it needed to be transformed by the Tapus in a ritual (in what was a boring as hell episode) to make it seem extra special, when now we know it isn't.

Now maybe I might have missed some details or misunderstood some things which I'm sure someone will correct me on, but as of 73 episodes, the anime has been poor in its explanation of Z Moves.

Still liked the episode though, that doesn't change. Team Rocket were definitely entertaining, and despite me not being their biggest fans, I'd still take them receiving more screen time and episodes any day over any of the classmates (though I wonder how Ash is suddenly on his way to Ula'ula, since no one even told him about Nanu and the Grand Trial).
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Nanu giving Team Rocket a Z-Ring is interesting, but I don't think we can draw conclusions from it yet. He gave that Z-Ring to them despite knowing they were Team Rocket and Nanu also has connections with Giovanni. There's obviously a lot more going on that we don't know about yet and we still have no clue as to what Nanu's true motives are here, he just says it's a thank-you gift for helping Acerola but I doubt that that's the only reason. Giovanni also seemed adamant at the start of the episode that Nanu would help them. Mimikyu gave the Mimikium Z to Jessie for helping out Acerola against Gengar though, that seems pretty clear.

And yes, the Kahuna's give out the Z-Rings, but where do you think they get those Z-Rings? Olivia showed that Z-Rings are made from special ores found on Akala, and the Kahuna's know how to turn this ore into actual Z-Rings. Since the Kahuna's are chosen by the Tapus, I imagine learning how to do this from the Tapus might be part of the process of becoming a full Kahuna.

I do like how Team Rocket seems to obtain all their Z-crystals and the Z-ring legitimately, they don't steal them at all. They haven't even tried stealing Ash's Z-Ring or something.
 

p96822

Evolve me please
Really they have to worf Gengar to make Team Rocket to look good. Gengar didn't use any of his moves to fight back
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
n a side note, I'm really salty Jessie and James and their pokémon will be using Z-moves now while Meowth always gets nothing... Well, maybe not salty, since I like Jessie and James and I enjoyed thoroughly this episode, but sad. I picked the wrong character to be my favorite when I started watching Pokémon lol

Same here. I definitely appreciate ANYONE in the TRio getting a level boost, but the Z-Moves were an ideal opportunity for Meowth to be a dangerous battler for once, especially since they use him more in SM. I mean remembering Bite to use Black Hole Eclipse isn't exactly gonna make him too OP for the next series.

Oh well, Mareanie hasn't exactly got to do a whole lot this series, so they may as well pick up the slack where it's needed first.
 
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