Team Skull, Aether Foundation and Plot Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

[clbgolden12]

I see the argument that we should have battled Lusamine-Nihilego herself instead of her Pokemon everywhere, but the fact is that if we would've fought her it would be morally wrong. Look at just after the fight, where she tries to kill the player and Lillie, which sparked people's attention for being brutal. If we were to battle her, we would essentially be doing the same thing that she tried to do. Plus, who would try to attack Lusamine in front of Lillie, who only went to save her mother? Especially as the player is Lillie's friend. If we attacked her mother in front of her, we would essentially be betraying Lillie. And quite honestly, who would betray such an adorable snugglemuffin?

Well, if the mom tried to attack us first, then it wouldn't be really wrong...

 

[Excitable Boy]

Well, if the mom tried to attack us first, then it wouldn't be really wrong...

Are there "stand your ground" laws in Ultra Space?

 

[clbgolden12]

Are there "stand your ground" laws in Ultra Space?

Uh...

Yes-ish? Maybe?

 

[goodpeople25]

So let me see if I got this (mainly the last point) right?
-It would be seen as wrong to attack Lusamine
-There are laws enabling self-defence thus lessening how wrong it is.
-Those laws wouldn't apply in this case... Because those laws don't exist in that physical location....

Huh? Okay then. Can I bring a tinsy thing up? Why would any other laws apply if that specific one dosen't? And why does that really matter in the first place?

 

[Akashin]

I see the argument that we should have battled Lusamine-Nihilego herself instead of her Pokemon everywhere, but the fact is that if we would've fought her it would be morally wrong. Look at just after the fight, where she tries to kill the player and Lillie, which sparked people's attention for being brutal. If we were to battle her, we would essentially be doing the same thing that she tried to do. Plus, who would try to attack Lusamine in front of Lillie, who only went to save her mother? Especially as the player is Lillie's friend. If we attacked her mother in front of her, we would essentially be betraying Lillie. And quite honestly, who would betray such an adorable snugglemuffin?

Err, why? If Lusamine didn't send out any Pokemon but instead revealed that she now had the power of Nihilego and intended to come at you with it (which is what I initially expected would happen, in all honesty), why would it be morally wrong to fight her with the intention of beating her down and hopefully saving her?

It would suck for Lillie, sure, but if that's the way things had played out you wouldn't have had much choice but to fight Lusamine, and I can't see why that would be a betrayal to Lillie.

 

[clbgolden12]

It would suck for Lillie, sure, but if that's the way things had played out you wouldn't have had much choice but to fight Lusamine, and I can't see why that would be a betrayal to Lillie.

Especially considering directly afterwards Lillie actually instructs Solgaleo/Lunala to attack Lusamine.

 

[Excitable Boy]

why would it be morally wrong to fight her with the intention of beating her down and hopefully saving her?

is that really how this works?

sounds like the abusive relationship goes both ways, if you ask me

 

[Sαpphire]

The only reason that battling Lusamine/Nihilego her/itself is an issue is because this is Pokémon. Physical violence against humans is extraordinarily rare in this series when not done for comedy. We've never really had a situation in which we actually targeted a person - it's the same reason it was kind of shocking that Ghetsis wanted Kyurem to just freeze the player in B2W2. Had it come down to it, attacking Lusamine while fused with Nihilego would have been perfectly sensible in terms of video games in general; it would have just been way out there for this series.

Although, in the end, Lunala or Solgaleo kind of does it anyway, so it more or less comes down to whether it's appropriate for the player character to order their own Pokémon to do it.

 

[diakyu]

I think misinterpret why Lusamine transformed. I doubt she intended to fight in that form at all. She just wanted to be closet to her precious Ultra Beast.

There is one moment after the battle where the camera focused on Lusamine's claws on her tentacles and I felt like she was about to get violent but Solgaleo/Lunala put and end to that.

 

[Nerdy McNerdface]

There is also the fact that Lusamine doesn't attack first - she sends out Pokemon first. I think that at first she doesn't want to harm the player and Lillie at all, which would make attacking her morally wrong. The fact that after the battle is when she first attacks is when that is the moment when attacking her is less wrong and more right, if that makes sense.

 

[Shine]

There is still one thing I don't get regarding Lusamine, Lillie, and Aether Foundation.




Lusamine wants to have Cosmog back, and Lillie was last seen having Cosmog with her, so logically, Lusamine would have asked all her employees to look for the missing Lillie.

Yet prior to Aether House incident, Lillie was able to walk around most of Alola without any problem whatsoever, including Heahea City, despite the existence of an Aether branch office there. Lillie, having stayed in Aether Foundation for a longer time than Gladion, should have known Heahea City has an Aether branch, so she should have been more careful while she was there.

In fact, she didn't get caught until she decided to do something weird : choosing to stay in the Aether House, despite fully aware it belongs to Aether Foundation. Granted, it was Team Skull who kidnapped her, but why staying in Aether's location when there's a Pokemon Center nearby?

Also, if only they go to the regional professor's house to ask for help, they would've found Lillie (and by extension, Cosmog) right away

 

[Hero of Truth]

There is still one thing I don't get regarding Lusamine, Lillie, and Aether Foundation.




Lusamine wants to have Cosmog back, and Lillie was last seen having Cosmog with her, so logically, Lusamine would have asked all her employees to look for the missing Lillie.

Yet prior to Aether House incident, Lillie was able to walk around most of Alola without any problem whatsoever, including Heahea City, despite the existence of an Aether branch office there. Lillie, having stayed in Aether Foundation for a longer time than Gladion, should have known Heahea City has an Aether branch, so she should have been more careful while she was there.

In fact, she didn't get caught until she decided to do something weird : choosing to stay in the Aether House, despite fully aware it belongs to Aether Foundation. Granted, it was Team Skull who kidnapped her, but why staying in Aether's location when there's a Pokemon Center nearby?

Also, if only they go to the regional professor's house to ask for help, they would've found Lillie (and by extension, Cosmog) right away

I think Lusamine just didn't inform the entirety of the Foundation in Alola about her and Cosmog. The employees in Paradise may have known, but not the ones around Alola. Or Lillie was just lucky.

 

[lemoncatpower]

I think Lusamine just didn't inform the entirety of the Foundation in Alola about her and Cosmog. The employees in Paradise may have known, but not the ones around Alola. Or Lillie was just lucky.

im thinking the first of the two, Lusamine probably didn't announce to everyone about Nebby since not everyone has known about UB's, and that's a pretty rare and secret event you don't just let everyone know. Thats what I think.

 

[Akashin]

I think Lusamine just didn't inform the entirety of the Foundation in Alola about her and Cosmog. The employees in Paradise may have known, but not the ones around Alola. Or Lillie was just lucky.

That Lusamine didn't declare any sort of company-wide search for Lillie seems the easiest explanation, especially given that we never see any hint that Lusamine has anybody besides Team Skull looking for her. That doesn't really change the fact that Lille was excessively careless, though we already knew that from how easily she let Nebby roam freely.

 

[Missingno.Fan]

Am I the only one who thought that a Guzma was a really immature middle aged man? I read he is supposed to be in his early 20's. I thought he was the same age as Lusamine, not younger than me. Both my brother and my friend (who isn't into Pokémon that much) thought that was obvious.

 

[Tsukuyomi56]

im thinking the first of the two, Lusamine probably didn't announce to everyone about Nebby since not everyone has known about UB's, and that's a pretty rare and secret event you don't just let everyone know. Thats what I think.

This seems like the most likely reason since Lusamine probably wants to maintain the image of the Aether Foundation being a group devoted to protecting wild Pokémon to the public, a bunch of employees from said organization trying to catch Lillie will not doubt arouse a bit of suspicion about its true goal.

 

[Nerdy McNerdface]

Am I the only one who thought that a Guzma was a really immature middle aged man? I read he is supposed to be in his early 20's. I thought he was the same age as Lusamine, not younger than me. Both my brother and my friend (who isn't into Pokémon that much) thought that was obvious.

He probably thought that she was the same age as him tbh...

 

[AmethystLeslie]

I thought Guzma was a lot older, too. Mayhe closer to Lusamine's age if not older. It's the white hair, that's why I think that.

@Lillie not being caught until Team Skull found her halfway through the game

Well, since Team Skull works for Aether, maybe Lusamine just alerted them instead of her own workers just so Team Skull would look less suspicious looking for someone than someone on Aether. People would look at Team Skull as thugs fooling around, but no one would suspect they were looking for someone who kidnapped a pokemon with the power to destroy Alola.

 

[Ophie]

That Lusamine didn't declare any sort of company-wide search for Lillie seems the easiest explanation, especially given that we never see any hint that Lusamine has anybody besides Team Skull looking for her. That doesn't really change the fact that Lille was excessively careless, though we already knew that from how easily she let Nebby roam freely.

The Aether Foundation is shown to be wide-reaching, but it's not the NSA. It doesn't have the manpower to search for one individual and find him or her instantly. Heck, even the NSA requires months or years to find an individual even if said individual is just living life normally and isn't aware anyone's looking for them.

Am I the only one who thought that a Guzma was a really immature middle aged man? I read he is supposed to be in his early 20's. I thought he was the same age as Lusamine, not younger than me. Both my brother and my friend (who isn't into Pokémon that much) thought that was obvious.

Well, Guzma didn't have a normal upbringing or normal parents. More specifically, his father was wholly focused on him being #1 at everything and was inplied to inflict violence on him if he didn't excel. That'd be a logical reason why he's so emotionally stunted, yet pretty intelligent at the same time. Well, specifically, he throws tantrums when he loses, which falls right in line with his father punishing him whenever he loses.

I thought Guzma was a lot older, too. Mayhe closer to Lusamine's age if not older. It's the white hair, that's why I think that.

I actually thought he was an old man the first time I saw him in that promotional trailer.

 

[xerxes]

I thought Guzma was a lot older, too. Mayhe closer to Lusamine's age if not older. It's the white hair, that's why I think that.

I actually thought that the bleached hair made it pretty obvious that he's a young adult. You can see from his black roots that his hair colour isn't natural. And that he hasn't dyed his hair in a while either.