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Team Skull, Aether Foundation and Plot Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

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Crazy0n389

Starry's Angels
I would like a female-led team that succeeds in pulling off their evil plan.

Mm.. Definitely. In the first 6 generations, there hasn't been a successful rival team that has done it. Unless you go back to Gen 6, which was very close, you are correct. The thought of having a female-led team has me excited for what's to come.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Not sure if Lusamine would be as secure an opponent, there's a reason many humans use Pokémon for protection...

Do you know what we're talking about? We're referring to the part of the game where Lusamine fuses with Nihilego to become a monstrosity that most certainly would not need a Pokemon for protection. Of course we're not going to battle against human Lusamine.
 

PsychoBoost

Carbon Dioxide
Nonetheless, adding a human to a Pokémon fight makes it uncatchable, it can't be in the Dex, and it goes against the general trend of the series.. It also doesn't sound that much more intimidating to add Lusamine, because if Lusamine were in the middle of the battle normally it would be a problem for them. Maybe if they wanted to have more battles like that, otherwise it's a controversial deviation without much context to out balance that or explain it. They do not need Lusamine there to have a convincing battle, no point in gratuitously harming them.

Adding Lusamine wouldn't add much to the battle, as departures go.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Nonetheless, adding a human to a Pokémon fight makes it uncatchable, it can't be in the Dex, and it goes against the general trend of the series.. It also doesn't sound that much more intimidating to add Lusamine, because if Lusamine were in the middle of the battle normally it would be a problem for them. Maybe if they wanted to have more battles like that, otherwise it's a controversial deviation without much context to out balance that or explain it. They do not need Lusamine there to have a convincing battle, no point in gratuitously harming them.

Adding Lusamine wouldn't add much to the battle, as departures go.

It wouldn't be a Pokemon though, so of course you couldn't catch it. I highly doubt that people would be upset that they couldn't catch Lusamine. That be weird. Besides, having a battle against something you can't catch is one of the things would make the fight so interesting. How would adding a true boss battle against a non-Pokemon creature with incredibly high stats not add anything to the battle? It would serve as something completely new, a great climax for the games, and true final boss battle, which Pokemon usually lacks. Not to mention, it would have a purpose, as it would justify Lusamine transforming into that thing in the first place. And what more explanation do you need than Lusamine has fused with her Pokemon to become a monstrosity that wants to destroy you, so now you must defend yourself?

I'll give it to you that there's need, per se, to have you fight Lusamine directly, but that doesn't mean there's no reason to.
 

Morty05

Ghost-type trainer
It wouldn't be a Pokemon though, so of course you couldn't catch it. I highly doubt that people would be upset that they couldn't catch Lusamine. That be weird. Besides, having a battle against something you can't catch is one of the things would make the fight so interesting. How would adding a true boss battle against a non-Pokemon creature with incredibly high stats not add anything to the battle? It would serve as something completely new, a great climax for the games, and true final boss battle, which Pokemon usually lacks. Not to mention, it would have a purpose, as it would justify Lusamine transforming into that thing in the first place. And what more explanation do you need than Lusamine has fused with her Pokemon to become a monstrosity that wants to destroy you, so now you must defend yourself?

I'll give it to you that there's need, per se, to have you fight Lusamine directly, but that doesn't mean there's no reason to.

didn't we already did this with battle against black/white kyurem? We could not catch it at first when we battled it. And no one cried foul over it.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
didn't we already did this with battle against black/white kyurem? We could not catch it at first when we battled it. And no one cried foul over it.

Sort of, but technically we were able to catch it later, so it doesn't really count. But yes, what I want to see is an expansion of that. The Black/White Kyurem battle is the closest they've gotten to true boss battle, but it didn't go far enough.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
Sort of, but technically we were able to catch it later, so it doesn't really count. But yes, what I want to see is an expansion of that. The Black/White Kyurem battle is the closest they've gotten to true boss battle, but it didn't go far enough.

We couldn't even catch Lusanihilego if we wanted to, since the Pokemon she bonded with was something she already captured
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
We couldn't even catch Lusanihilego if we wanted to, since the Pokemon she bonded with was something she already captured

Or how about just the fact that it's not even a Pokemon in the first place?
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
Or how about just the fact that it's not even a Pokemon in the first place?

That too. Though that raises the question of people's game plan against monsters they can't stuff into a ball, like if something like the Bittercold arrives in the main games.


Do you guys think Lusamine was an bad, amoral or sociopathic person before she got her hands on space jellyfish? It is stated that Nihilego's venom removes inhibitions like a drug, not that it brainwashes. It makes you wonder what the effects may be on other characters in the franchise like Lillie, Guzma, Ash or heck someone like Ghetsis who's already awful
 

Hero of Truth

Lillie Fan
That too. Though that raises the question of people's game plan against monsters they can't stuff into a ball, like if something like the Bittercold arrives in the main games.


Do you guys think Lusamine was an bad, amoral or sociopathic person before she got her hands on space jellyfish? It is stated that Nihilego's venom removes inhibitions like a drug, not that it brainwashes. It makes you wonder what the effects may be on other characters in the franchise like Lillie, Guzma, Ash or heck someone like Ghetsis who's already awful

During that scene with Lillie on Exeggutor Island, she mentions a moment between her and her mother before she uh, snaps. So no, all signs point to Lusamine being a woman caring for her children before Nihilego appeared and ''brainwashed'' her.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Okay, so call me late to the party (I only started on January 1st), but I finally reached the part where I am given the chance to capture Nebby.

But.. Darn.. The final battle against Lusamine was a letdown of epic proportions. Well, slightly less of a letdown then the horrid Kommo-o Trial. And I was underlevelled at that. Here's how it went:

Turn 1: Switched out my lv47 Ribombee for my lv47 Salazzle. Clefable Cosmic Power'd.
Turn 2: Nasty Plot, Clefable Cosmic Power'd again.
Turn 3: Nasty Plot, Clefable used Metronome. It did a bit of damage.
Turn 4: Sludge Bomb, didn't KO, Clefable used Metronome. It perhaps did a bit of damage. Around 30/100% by now.
Turn 5: Sludge Bomb KOs. Milotic comes in.
Turn 6: Sludge Bomb doesn't KO. Milotic used SAFEGUARD.. -.-
Turn 7: Sludge Bomb KOs. Mismagius comes in.
Turn 8: Mismagius outspeeds at +1, uses Pain Split.. Uhh.. Thank you? Flamethrower OHKOs. Lilligant comes in.
Turn 9: Flamethrower OHKOs. Bewear comes in.
Turn 10: Flamethrower OHKOs. DONE.

I know I still have the league to worry about, but I feel disappointed by this anticlimax. Perhaps I shouldn't have gone for that second Nasty Plot to make it harder on myself. But I restrict myself often enough already.

Did anybody else feel this anticlimax?
 

Captain Jigglypuff

*On Vacation. Go Away!*
I honestly think Lusamine was a misguided woman. I believe she honestly wanted to help Pokémon at first when she founded the Aether Foundation with Mohn. But when Mohn disappeared and Nilhego showed up, she seemed to have a mental breakdown. We don't know what Lusamine was like when she started the foundation and the employees that you Battle during the story seem to be unaware of her true plans and only attack you because you are technically trespassing.
 

Antonio94

Frostwolf
Sorry for butting in the middle of conversation but this plot about Lusamine is really interesting.
personally I don't think Lusamine is a bad person, her only drive to research was only to get her husband back. The real problem I see here is her desire and the Ultra Beast. I have read abit about fan theory of Ultra Beast and I also had my own speculation so I'm trying to write it out. I'd like to open it in a new thread but hope putting such a long comment here would be legit?
And oh, sorry for my complicated English.
 

Daizy

I call you honey
I liked how Team Skull was being used by Lusamine since I had always wanted a plot twist like that. Lusamine's my fav villain as a result.
 

windwakemeup

Bee Prince
I was really sad when they pulled the "oh Lusamine wasn't actually evil after all" thing. I really love how GameFreak put in this whole story about Lillie getting stronger and more bold after the abuse her mother put her through, but I feel the whole thing would have been more effective if the plot would have allowed Lillie to leave her mother behind, because having a mother who ISN'T being "brainwashed" by Nihilego and IS LEGITIMATELY a horrible abusive parent would have been way more interesting and honestly, I would have loved because I would be able to relate to lillie more (I've been in an abusive family and had to deal with my feelings and gain courage to be my own person after that). Lillie finally coming to her own and gaining courage, realizing her mother treated her wrong, would have had a bit more emotional impact that way I feel.

That's just my opinion though.
 

Hero of Truth

Lillie Fan
I was really sad when they pulled the "oh Lusamine wasn't actually evil after all" thing. I really love how GameFreak put in this whole story about Lillie getting stronger and more bold after the abuse her mother put her through, but I feel the whole thing would have been more effective if the plot would have allowed Lillie to leave her mother behind, because having a mother who ISN'T being "brainwashed" by Nihilego and IS LEGITIMATELY a horrible abusive parent would have been way more interesting and honestly, I would have loved because I would be able to relate to lillie more (I've been in an abusive family and had to deal with my feelings and gain courage to be my own person after that). Lillie finally coming to her own and gaining courage, realizing her mother treated her wrong, would have had a bit more emotional impact that way I feel.

That's just my opinion though.

The whole 'parent being always crazy and child leaves them alone 4ever' concept has been already done before. If you're wondering, the Giovanni-Silver relationship as seen in that Celebi event in HG/SS clearly implies that, even though we don't know a bit about Giovanni's past whatsoever, but still. The Ghetsis-N relationship doesn't count because N isn't even Ghetsis' biological son to begin with.
 

windwakemeup

Bee Prince
The whole 'parent being always crazy and child leaves them alone 4ever' concept has been already done before. If you're wondering, the Giovanni-Silver relationship as seen in that Celebi event in HG/SS clearly implies that, even though we don't know a bit about Giovanni's past whatsoever, but still. The Ghetsis-N relationship doesn't count because N isn't even Ghetsis' biological son to begin with.

I really don't count that because

a. you had to download an event just to see that, which I didn't as a kid and I know only like 1 person in my hometown who accessed it with a hacked celebi, so it's not exactly content that anyone who plays would pick up on or even see (especially because nowadays the event is inaccessable without cheating devices or if you still have an event celebi in a 4th gen game to transfer to HGSS).

b. it's not fleshed out it's just... there. Maybe if they had fleshed out Giovanni in the remakes? But as it stands now it's not comparable. Giovanni doesn't strike me as crazy either, he struck me as more of a mafia type and it's clear he's not insane. Maybe if we got some explanation or character development there between Silver and Giovanni? But right now it's not the same at all.

The Lusamine plot just strikes me as lazy writing. There is no buildup for the whole "ultra beast controlling her mind" thing and I'm halfway convinced it was only put in last minute to prevent backlash or something dumb like that.
 
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Akashin

Well-Known Member
The Lusamine plot just strikes me as lazy writing. There is no buildup for the whole "ultra beast controlling her mind" thing and I'm halfway convinced it was only put in last minute to prevent backlash or something dumb like that.

You're aware that Lusamine was obsessed with the Ultra Beasts and treating her kids like crap long before Nihilego had anything to do with her, right? Unless I'm sorely misremembering something, they never implied that her past treatment of them wasn't her own doing.
 

windwakemeup

Bee Prince
You're aware that Lusamine was obsessed with the Ultra Beasts and treating her kids like crap long before Nihilego had anything to do with her, right? Unless I'm sorely misremembering something, they never implied that her past treatment of them wasn't her own doing.

Pretty sure it states that Lusamine only started acting that way because of Nihilego influence, specifically when her husband lost his memory due to the Ultra Beasts.
 
I was really sad when they pulled the "oh Lusamine wasn't actually evil after all" thing. I really love how GameFreak put in this whole story about Lillie getting stronger and more bold after the abuse her mother put her through, but I feel the whole thing would have been more effective if the plot would have allowed Lillie to leave her mother behind, because having a mother who ISN'T being "brainwashed" by Nihilego and IS LEGITIMATELY a horrible abusive parent would have been way more interesting and honestly, I would have loved because I would be able to relate to lillie more (I've been in an abusive family and had to deal with my feelings and gain courage to be my own person after that). Lillie finally coming to her own and gaining courage, realizing her mother treated her wrong, would have had a bit more emotional impact that way I feel.

That's just my opinion though.

As someone who's been abused by a family member as well, I can see where your coming from here, but personally I almost needed Lillie's story to help me get through something in real life, and it really hit me where it mattered, so I tend to excuse the "oh she wasn't but really evil" thing. Plus, Wicke said that the toxins only amplify traits instead of creating them, so it's possible that Lusamine was only moderately controlling beforehand, but still not exactly a super-kind mother.

But hey, it doesn't matter, your interpretation would've actually been more interesting, I just personally don't have too many problems with what we got anyway because I got hit with SM at the right time.
 
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