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Team Skull, Aether Foundation and Plot Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

Akashin

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure it states that Lusamine only started acting that way because of Nihilego influence, specifically when her husband lost his memory due to the Ultra Beasts.
I'm running on almost year-old memories here (damn event Z-Crystal that I don't want to lose in order to replay the game), but I don't think Nihilego had even been brought over at that point. There shouldn't be any way for there to have been any outside influence on her thoughts and actions until later.
 

windwakemeup

Bee Prince
As someone who's been abused by a family member as well, I can see where your coming from here, but personally I almost needed Lillie's story to help me get through something in real life, and it really hit me where it mattered, so I tend to excuse the "oh she wasn't but really evil" thing. Plus, Wicke said that the toxins only amplify traits instead of creating them, so it's possible that Lusamine was only moderately controlling beforehand, but still not exactly a super-kind mother.

But hey, it doesn't matter, your interpretation would've actually been more interesting, I just personally don't have too many problems with what we got anyway because I got hit with SM at the right time.
Fair enough. I forgot that line from Wicke, too, thank you for reminding me.

I'm running on almost year-old memories here (damn event Z-Crystal that I don't want to lose in order to replay the game), but I don't think Nihilego had even been brought over at that point. There shouldn't be any way for there to have been any outside influence on her thoughts and actions until later.
Aw crap, now I'm confused. (I'm running on year-old recollection too, I don't want to lose my Mew Z-crystal D: )

Found this line from Bulbapedia:
"When spoken to after the victory celebration, Gladion speculates that Lusamine's fixation with the Ultra Beasts may have started when her husband (and Lillie and Gladion's father) Professor Mohn vanished during his study of the Ultra Wormholes and, in an ill-fated attempt to find him, she eventually grew obsessed with the Ultra Beasts to the point of monomania. Lillie's reminiscences on Exeggutor Island show that she recalls that her mother was once a kind and compassionate woman who genuinely cared for her children."

I think I'm remembering that and getting the details fuddled.
 

magma grunt edu

casual hardcore fan
I don't know where to post this exactly but since it's regarding the "final boss", i guess it's spoiler territory. I remember the 1st time i battled lusahilego and the very first pokemon made me terrified. Why? Because it was a already buffed with cosmic power clefable that keeps healing. I had no taunt or stat boosting moves. When i burned her and saw no damage then i remembered, "oh, no, she has magic guard". And then i thought the worst would happen. What if this exact clefable had stored power? Of course, she had metronome instead so i was relieved. But think about it, if your team wasn't overleveld, what could you really do to her? I guess taunting is the best option because without it, she just buffs, heals and has enough power to kill any non dark type you have in one shot. You could put alolan muk against her but she has moonblast so you won't resist it. I think stored power on that clefable would turn the battle difficulty up a notch and it would at least take advantage of that initial boost she has to her sp. def. 3 cosmic powers later and she has a 160 special psychic move with 100% acc. And she keeps healing too. I really thought i was gonna lose that battle on her first pokemon.

Also, a side note, why the hell does milotic get the attack boost and not bewear? if milotic got the defense boost that would make so much more sense. Weird choice.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
You're aware that Lusamine was obsessed with the Ultra Beasts and treating her kids like crap long before Nihilego had anything to do with her, right? Unless I'm sorely misremembering something, they never implied that her past treatment of them wasn't her own doing.
It's a kind of half and half situation. Nihilego's neurotoxin releases people's inhibitions, but it doesn't brainwash them. Lusamine already had a dark personality due to her husband disappearing, Nihilego just made things worse
 

Aetius

Sky Emperor
It's a kind of half and half situation. Nihilego's neurotoxin releases people's inhibitions, but it doesn't brainwash them. Lusamine already had a dark personality due to her husband disappearing, Nihilego just made things worse
Lusamine didn't have a dark personality to begin with.
She, like anyone of us, had dark feelings lurking in her after her husband's disappearance.
Just to make things clearer with an example.
Say you're angry with your parents for whatever reason; usually your anger will soon go away and forget even why you were like that to begin with, but what would happen if a Nihiliego intoxicated you with its neurotoxins?
That's right, your anger would only worsen and your mind would literally be controlled by feelings that otherwise would be easily kept in check.
All this to say that Lusamine was a loving Mother, but the inability to cope up with what happened in the past, made her an easy victim to Nihilego's poison...
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I forgot that line from Wicke, too, thank you for reminding me.



Aw crap, now I'm confused. (I'm running on year-old recollection too, I don't want to lose my Mew Z-crystal D: )

Found this line from Bulbapedia:
"When spoken to after the victory celebration, Gladion speculates that Lusamine's fixation with the Ultra Beasts may have started when her husband (and Lillie and Gladion's father) Professor Mohn vanished during his study of the Ultra Wormholes and, in an ill-fated attempt to find him, she eventually grew obsessed with the Ultra Beasts to the point of monomania. Lillie's reminiscences on Exeggutor Island show that she recalls that her mother was once a kind and compassionate woman who genuinely cared for her children."

I think I'm remembering that and getting the details fuddled.
(I... totally forgot about this thread. Whoops.)

Yeah, I'm not totally clear on it all myself, but I'm pretty sure in the beginning it was just her self-imposed obsession with the Ultra Beasts that changed her. That, coupled with a sort of maternal instinct to coddle her kids after having lost her husband could explain her treatment of them without Nihilego needing to be involved.

Hopefully USUM will either clear up or just refresh my memory on all of this. If Mohn's part in everything is given any sort of attention, it definitely can't hurt.

It's a kind of half and half situation. Nihilego's neurotoxin releases people's inhibitions, but it doesn't brainwash them. Lusamine already had a dark personality due to her husband disappearing, Nihilego just made things worse
Well, yeah, that's the idea. I wasn't saying that Nihilego didn't make things worse; I was just saying that, unless I'm forgetting a prior meeting between Lusamine and Nihilego, she was already on a downward spiral that Lillie and Gladion were suffering from that was entirely her own doing. She wasn't evil per se, but she was obsessed and mistreating them, and those qualities were made all the worse by Nihilego.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
In general, I think the effect of Nihilego venom is like being intoxicated
 

Leondtrix

Member
This seems to be a good spot to post theories. I have a good one. Here goes...

Everyone knows the classic kanto story. Red picks Charmander. Blue picks Blastoise. Ready for it? Kakui was the third trainer, who picked bulbasaur I'm assuming.

Here me out. We know. KNOW from storyline that kakui did the kanto league challenge. We know he made it to the final four and Lance wrecked him to end the journey.

We know from the classic story that all other trainers from pallet washed out.

Next we know that he took the island challenge...with Guzma. Rivals like you and Hau. They both washed out. Finally, we know washing out the island challenge led to his "retirement" to move research to find the perfect move to "beat ol Hala". Meaning the island challenge was his 2nd, and final competitive attempt.

It makes the time frame and age make more sense. When you see red and blue they do look slightly younger then kakui (against my theory) but not by much.

Oh, and let's not forget Professor Oak could have made an easy call to his brother to kinda "recieve" kakui in the new region. I mean he's "retired" now, but thats cause kakui has the white coat now, but he could have very easily been the "researcher" back then.

Finally, you got a rotom dex. Even in this newest "generation" it's exceeding rare and status. Let's see, who could kakui have known to have the latest and greatest innovations in pokedex technology? I wonder...
 
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RedJirachi

Veteran member
I find it kind of strange Guzma works with Lusamine despite growing up with an abusive parent
 

giu

Well-Known Member
I dislike how in ultra sun Lusamine is not the final villain, i was happy for the first female evil team leader, and they do this... :(

Guzma is one ofthe best characters of the franchise imo... he shines and is way better character than Lillie
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I dislike how in ultra sun Lusamine is not the final villain, i was happy for the first female evil team leader, and they do this... :(

Guzma is one ofthe best characters of the franchise imo... he shines and is way better character than Lillie
Lusamine really was never an evil team leader. Most of the Aether Foundation employees were unaware of the UB and wormhole experiments and mostly battled you because you were truly trespassing on their company’s territory and wanted to protect the Pokémon at their facility. Only a select few knew of what was happening in the Labs and I wouldn’t say they were an evil team at all. Lusamine was just a misguided individual who snapped after her husband went missing.
 
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