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Team Skull, Aether Foundation and Plot Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

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Always kinda wondered why the Rocket Chant starts with "To Protect the World from Devastation" technically "Uniting all peoples" isn't a bad thing either, just the part where they plan to be overlords over it all :p

If I remember right, that's just the TRio screwing it up, Butch and Cassidy had a different one.

I wouldn't mind if they pulled a Platinum and had the main legend arise non intentionally, but rather, as a consequence of the evil team's strife. What I wouldn't mind, if we go back to Kalos, that the Evil Team does something after you beat the league which angers the legend of the game? Either the sun legend creates a source of light for the other side of the world permanently making it daytime, or the moon eclipses the sun and locks the world in darkness in Sun.

The legend has sealed itself somewhere, where you then go to Kalos to search out Zygarde. The evil team in the meanwhile has learned their lesson and is attempting to help you, but find themselves hindered by their rep. You get the Kalos badges along the way, entering Snowbelle through Santalune, nabbing that badge and running up to Termius Cave. Either Anistar is the last gym, or the route is blocked off from Anistar. You get there, and get Zygarde. Alternatively, you collect/befriend cores through the game and unite them here. You might not actually catch it, you might just set it off to start acting. Zygarde goes Complete, we get an epic cut scene along the lines of BW2. Legend gets weakened, you fight it and either catch/capture it, and away goes Zygarde if you don't catch if.

If we aren't returning to Kalos, the exact same thing happens, but after the 7th badge. Instead of this game's legend, it involves the opposite mascot. You seek out your mascot, which is somewhere around the eight gym. You then go and attack the opposite legend, maybe in a solo battle with it. Evil team leader/admin/whatever captures the weakened legend or at least tries to, where you have an epic final battle on some mountain or shrine or temple.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
If I remember right, that's just the TRio screwing it up, Butch and Cassidy had a different one.

In the English version yes, but I just looked up the Japanese one on Bulbapedia (and according to them at least, it's a public wiki after all) and both begin with "To prevent the destruction of the world/To protect the peace of the world". Of course this could just all be Team Rocket trying to make itself look better (or just being deluded that their actions are necessary to prevent some sort of ruin, it's not like bad people don't think what they do is justified) and of course the anime is its own entity form the games, but I reckon it'd be nice if they pick that up and at some point it turns out Team Rocket was really toiling on preparing for some devastating disaster behind the scenes and Giovanni and his people show up to help the protagonist safe the day.
That'd be something unexpected :p
 
In the English version yes, but I just looked up the Japanese one on Bulbapedia (and according to them at least, it's a public wiki after all) and both begin with "To prevent the destruction of the world/To protect the peace of the world". Of course this could just all be Team Rocket trying to make itself look better (or just being deluded that their actions are necessary to prevent some sort of ruin, it's not like bad people don't think what they do is justified) and of course the anime is its own entity form the games, but I reckon it'd be nice if they pick that up and at some point it turns out Team Rocket was really toiling on preparing for some devastating disaster behind the scenes and Giovanni and his people show up to help the protagonist safe the day.
That'd be something unexpected :p

I'm actually kinda digging the theory Team Rocket was trying to stop Mewtwo if it went rogue, with the Silph Scope and all.

Regardless, I'm hoping for unconventional types for the evil team. Like, Dragons and Fairies.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Regardless, I'm hoping for unconventional types for the evil team. Like, Dragons and Fairies.

Good idea, though I'd prefer it even more if the evil team had no set type they use, no signature mons (or at least none every single mook uses) but just a variety of pokemon
 
Good idea, though I'd prefer it even more if the evil team had no set type they use, no signature mons (or at least none every single mook uses) but just a variety of pokemon

This in particular would be one of the better routes to take, i mean the Hypnosis + Confuse Ray spam of BW was a horrific result of this trend. Maybe the grunts can just use common Pokémon in general, and as you ascend the hierarchy, they use rarer and/or more powerful Pokémon?
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
I think the evil Teams should use Pokemon based on their name. The fact that pretty much the only Fire Pokemon Team FLARE used were Houndours made no sense.
 

Wulava

danger chili pepper
Staff member
Moderator
I think the evil Teams should use Pokemon based on their name. The fact that pretty much the only Fire Pokemon Team FLARE used were Houndours made no sense.

Well, all evil teams (especially the grunts) primarily use Poison and Dark-type Pokemon. Then the higher-ups are those who usually use the team's type specialty.

This is actually one of the reason why I think we don't get Dark-type Gyms. The evil team are the specialists.
E4 use Dark types because by the time we fight them, the main plot is already done with.
 
Well, all evil teams (especially the grunts) primarily use Poison and Dark-type Pokemon. Then the higher-ups are those who usually use the team's type specialty.

This is actually one of the reason why I think we don't get Dark-type Gyms. The evil team are the specialists.
E4 use Dark types because by the time we fight them, the main plot is already done with.

To be fair, Flare especially had a much more improved diversity, especially in regards to grunts. Dark and Poison types were prevalent, but it wasn't the same Dark and Poison types all the time.

I'm not sure about the whole 'evil team is the specialist' thing though, in RBY Team Rocket uses lots of Poison-Types, yet Koga remains a GL.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
If we won't get Evil Teams and rampaging legends as antagonists, anyone else got a good and effective substitute?

An evil professor would be nice. Or a Gym Leader/Elite Four. Or better if it's the Champion.

Well there can be antagonists without anybody being "evil". A rival would already be an antagonist if they're a force that tries to prevent the protagonist (you) from achieving their goals, not need for evil or threatening the world.
Thinking about a tournament-based plot... there could be multiple antagonists, friendly rivalries, unfriendly rivalries. They could focus on a character driven plot instead of saving the region yet again. All combined with stuff like "The Taurus for the opening ceremony escaped and are rampaging in the stadium, go stop them!"
Nobody says that there absolutely can't be a rampaging legendary or an evil team, but for the last few games we got the exact same plot of "Team (insert name here) tries to use (insert legendary pokemon here) to reshape the world in their image, it goes wrong and it falls to the protagonist to stop the crazed pokemon" with just a few details changed.
 

Lilligantastic

Well-Known Member
I think one of the main reasons why they have an evil TEAM is because it gives you a lot more trainers to fight, which you would get if - like some have suggested - you were just competing against a single villain or your rival.
 

dirkac

I smash your Boxes.
I think one of the main reasons why they have an evil TEAM is because it gives you a lot more trainers to fight, which you would get if - like some have suggested - you were just competing against a single villain or your rival.

Then just add more Trainers to the areas?
That's really no problem at all.

Its not like any of the Grunts are unique enough to stand out as their own characters anyways.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Then just add more Trainers to the areas?
That's really no problem at all.

Its not like any of the Grunts are unique enough to stand out as their own characters anyways.

True if anything the grunts of the various evil teams often boiled down "defeat the same two pokemon over and over and over again"
 

Wulava

danger chili pepper
Staff member
Moderator
To be fair, Flare especially had a much more improved diversity, especially in regards to grunts. Dark and Poison types were prevalent, but it wasn't the same Dark and Poison types all the time.

I'm not sure about the whole 'evil team is the specialist' thing though, in RBY Team Rocket uses lots of Poison-Types, yet Koga remains a GL.

Kalos had over 400 regional Pokemon. Of course they'll have good variety.
B2W2 Plasma also had a good bit of variety since the Regional Pokedex was expanded to 300.
 

phanpycross

God-king
I think the evil Teams should use Pokemon based on their name. The fact that pretty much the only Fire Pokemon Team FLARE used were Houndours made no sense.

Not to mention Lysandre's ace was GYARADOS.

Also, I want the evil team/teams to have a signature pokemon, like camerupt and sharpedo for Aqua/Magma.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
Not to mention Lysandre's ace was GYARADOS.

Also, I want the evil team/teams to have a signature pokemon, like camerupt and sharpedo for Aqua/Magma.
If Flare does return this game, and Lysandre is still alive (still pretty certain on that), hopefully they change his ace. Mega Pyroar maybe?

Speaking of their teams, hopefully they have whoever the evil team leader is this game use more than four Pokemon in their final battle. Lysandre was way to easy, and it didn't help they gave us a legendary as well. If they had Ghetsis use six Pokemon on his final battle, they should give us six here as well.
 

Lilligantastic

Well-Known Member
Then just add more Trainers to the areas?
That's really no problem at all.

Its not like any of the Grunts are unique enough to stand out as their own characters anyways.

Yes but how do they make the villain itself as challenging without having more than one trainer to fight? How do they make them take up as much time in the game/story? I'm not saying I'm against the idea of no evil team, but I do think that's part of the reason why they don't just have one single antagonist.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
What they really should do is buff the admins. I was happy they were gone in BW because I was bored fighting slightly stronger grunts. I liked what they did in the Orre side series and made them genuinely challenging because they had unique strategies (and pokemon war machines).
 
What they really should do is buff the admins. I was happy they were gone in BW because I was bored fighting slightly stronger grunts. I liked what they did in the Orre side series and made them genuinely challenging because they had unique strategies (and pokemon war machines).

Bruh if you didn't ta least struggle with Mars and Jupiter in DPPt then you should have like, a lifetime pass to the salty spittoon.

I'm hoping evil team leader has a full team, I loved that about N and Ghetsis.
 

Sprinter1988

Well-Known Member
What they really should do is buff the admins. I was happy they were gone in BW because I was bored fighting slightly stronger grunts. I liked what they did in the Orre side series and made them genuinely challenging because they had unique strategies (and pokemon war machines).

Yes. 100% Agree. I don't have many many complaints about ORAS, but the lack of pokemon owned by Matt, Shelly, Tabitha and Courtney is one of them. Then again, I wouldn't call Archie and Maxie's teams all that inspired either.

Something like, four for the Admins, six for the leaders, like:

Shelly: Sealeo, Seadra, Azumarill, Masquerain
Matt: Crawdaunt, Pelipper, Golduck, Ludicolo
Archie: Sharpedo, Starmie, Lanturn, Tentacruel, Armaldo, Walrein

Courtney: Ninetales, Seviper, Swellow, Metang
Tabitha: Torkoal, Mightyena, Golbat, Rhydon
Maxie: Camerupt, Flygon, Crobat, Weezing, Houndoom, Aggron

There are many pokemon available - use them!

Also, I think the admins need to be more memorable as characters, because I don't think they did then if fifth or sixth generation. I myself can't tell you most of the names of the Seven Sages or the Team Flare Admins:

Team Rocket:
Leader: Giovanni.
Admins: Archer, Ariana, Proton, Petrel.

Team Aqua:
Leader: Archie
Admins: Shelly, Matt

Team Magma:
Leader: Maxie
Admins: Tabitha, Courtney.

Team Galactic:
Leader: Cyrus
Admins: Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Charon

Team Plasma:
Leader(s): N, Ghetsis
Admins: Zinzolin... uh... that's all I got.

Team Flare:
Leader: Lysandre
Admins: Xerosic (which I remember because he is the only male admin), Marble... Maple?... Mable... Marple? Something along those lines anyway. Then one that began with A, one with B and one with C... why do that and then go to M?
And don't ask me what their signature pokemon are because I ain't got a clue!
 

Master_Tyrell

Well-Known Member
The funny thing is that those you mentioned from Team Flare are not even the admins. They are the scientists. The admins are the bald male Team Flare model and the female with longish red hair. So Team Flare has Lysandre, 5 Scientist (1 male and 4 female), and the male and female admins which are more than one and not unique.

Not to say you are wrong, by the way, because the scientists are presented as more unique and of more importance than the "admins".
 
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