Team Skull, Aether Foundation and Plot Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

[Merkur]

I'd like a future villainous team to return to a more mundane goal. Team Rocket was basically a Pokemon-poaching mafia, and then every team after them has been some kind fanatical terrorist group bent on world destruction or domination. Surely Team Rocket wasn't the only criminal enterprise in the Pokemon world?

Maybe I'm just getting this idea because I've been watching a lot of Hawaii 5-0 lately, and Alola is based on Hawaii...

 

[Airederu]

I'd like a future villainous team to return to a more mundane goal. Team Rocket was basically a Pokemon-poaching mafia, and then every team after them has been some kind fanatical terrorist group bent on world destruction or domination. Surely Team Rocket wasn't the only criminal enterprise in the Pokemon world?

Maybe I'm just getting this idea because I've been watching a lot of Hawaii 5-0 lately, and Alola is based on Hawaii...

Yeah, they should either tone down the evil teams goal to make it a little more realistic and let Solgaleo and/or Lunala shine as the greater evil, or go all out with the most ****ed up scariest plot ever that actually makes you give a **** about what's happening. Change things up, let someone/something die.

 

[Zealot]

I have a theory! It's a bit of a stretch, but hear me out...

Lillie, the mysterious assistant of Kukui, is actually a spy of the evil team. Lillie's way of dressing doesn't fit with the region's traditional clothing. I think she's actually from Sinnoh (mainly because of how similar her bag looks to Dawn's lol). Furthermore, since she's from Sinnoh... I think Team Galactic has a connection with this region.

Galactic... Sun... Moon... Idk. Thoughts?

 

[storm12]

I have a theory! It's a bit of a stretch, but hear me out...

Lillie, the mysterious assistant of Kukui, is actually a spy of the evil team. Lillie's way of dressing doesn't fit with the region's traditional clothing. I think she's actually from Sinnoh (mainly because of how similar her bag looks to Dawn's lol). Furthermore, since she's from Sinnoh... I think Team Galactic has a connection with this region.

Galactic... Sun... Moon... Idk. Thoughts?

A more common suggestion (one I have made too) is that Lillie is actually from Kalos and potentially related to Lysandre in some way due to them both being named for the lily. Furthermore Lillie is Kukui's assistant and Lysandre previously assisted Sycamore.

 

[Zealot]

That sounds more plausible considering the recency of XY and it begs to be explored more!

I think Team Flare will appear in the new games, tbh. Flare = Sun... Idk.

 

[storm12]

That sounds more plausible considering the recency of XY and it begs to be explored more!

I think Team Flare will appear in the new games, tbh. Flare = Sun... Idk.

If Magearna also ties into the Ultimate Weapon and/or AZ in some way as well then I can see a recurrence of Team Flare too- basically lots of call backs to Kalos seem very possible this time around.

 

[hydrosharp_98]

If we're dropping random propositions for the story, I'm saying Lillie is either AZ's Floette (Latias style) or Bianca's daughter. You'll never guess which I feel is more likely...

 

[Aromatic Mist]

If we're dropping random propositions for the story, I'm saying Lillie is either AZ's Floette (Latias style) or Bianca's daughter. You'll never guess which I feel is more likely...

Why not both?

although to be fair that sounds like a very bad fanfic character e-e

I'm feeling that Lillie may have a main role in a certain part of the story, similarly to how in Xenoblade Chronicles X your playable avatar is more of a secondary character to Elma and Lin, although I feel like this will be limited to a short period of the narrative.

 

[jireh the provider]

That'd actually be pretty neat. Though I'd imagine that we'd either be seeing the legendaries 24/7 and not actually fighting them until the end, have a hell of a lot of exposition, or have a Jubileus from Bayonetta type of deal and have everyone mention them and the kind of stuff they can and will do, intentionally leaving it vague until you actually fight them

FINALLY SOMEONE GOT MY IDEA references! Pretty much, pull out inspiration from the plots and scripting of Bayonetta.

Hmm, I like this idea of yours!
Perhaps their methods may be seen as extreme on the surface, making them look like the bad guys.
It will be up to us to stop them and make them realize that taking extreme measures against anything is wrong!
How I wish this was true!

To put that idea further, I would say that some Reverse Psychology in plot and gameplay for the in-game story could work. This script idea was done on B2W2's movie sci-fi role play movie where the protagonist travels into the future with his/her Duosion. However, what is different here is that ...

Pokemon are now the trainers, and that the humans are the ones fighting other humans like Pokemon! (Dun dun DDUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNN!). Should Solgaleo or Lunala be the villains, they would probably control and manipulate the boss of the possible evil team. (Using the Man behind the Man TVtrope).

Like I said, I don't have a thorough plot planned out in my head, but surely the main legendaries could get a temporary stat boost like someone else mentioned. Make them really high-leveled, put a level 80 Solgaleo in front of us when our team consists of level 40-50 Pokemon. I never got why we encounter all these huge important living legends when they're at level 45, especially when there are wild Pokemon later on in the post game at level 60-70 lol. It's kind of an insult. Legendaries need to have more worth to them, like, why would a wild Absol (for example) ever be stronger than a Groudon? I know it makes sense to do gameplay-wise to keep the game going, but there's gotta be a million different ways to make it work while being logical. Or better yet, buff all the major legendaries (box art mascots), it makes more sense anyway. A Caterpie shouldn't be the difference between an Alakazam and a Xerneas. By that logic, a Caterpie and an Alakazam are an equal match against a Xerneas, and that really should not be the case. I'm all for a permanent buff for all major legendaries, and I people could argue that it would throw the balance of competitive battling off, but I don't personally think it matters. It's competitive, it's supposed to be challenging, right? If it poses such a problem, make legendaries illegal or put them in their own league/category. Keep legendaries like Mew and Celebi at a BST of 600, but move legendaries like Lugia and Giratina to 860 and Arceus at 1000+. I know that sounds crazy to have a BST that large, but it would fix the challenge issue they've always had. I don't know how much more to add to this idea since a lot of you might not like it or agree with me, but I really stand behind it. It would make me really happy.

I believe that they could just look back at Pokken Tournament with Shadow Mewtwo. If you fight in-game story S.M., he is CRAZY ridiculous (he has 1000 HP at the first 3 encounters, 3000 HP at the final encounter)! But human playable Shadow Mewtwo, still strong but has the lowest base HP of 480 and just dies so fast (with Machamp getting the highest at 660). While I like your idea, the only way I can really see this working is for this game to have a Difficulty Setting.

I already suggested in one of my earlier posts on another Pokemon Sun and Moon Gameplay thread that Difficulty setting should already be from the start where they ask the player questions. While a really challenging game is great, or DARK SOULS "GET READY TO DIE!" difficulty, honestly, how many players can complete a really high difficulty? From what I read at a Game Designer blog on tumblr, more than 50% players cannot complete a hard and normal mode level of difficulty. Maybe it is simply the fear of difficulty designs that scare customers.

Would you play an extremely hard video game casually? For me I would stay away. However, plot difficulty bosses are fine. If you ask me, GAME FREAK NEEDS the wisdom and knowledge of Platinum Games (the game designing company that made the Bayonetta Series. Mind you, this game is Hardcore) when it comes to making VERY challenging games and STILL make it possible for players with commitment to beat it.

 

[Airederu]

FINALLY SOMEONE GOT MY IDEA references! Pretty much, pull out inspiration from the plots and scripting of Bayonetta.



To put that idea further, I would say that some Reverse Psychology in plot and gameplay for the in-game story could work. This script idea was done on B2W2's movie sci-fi role play movie where the protagonist travels into the future with his/her Duosion. However, what is different here is that ...

Pokemon are now the trainers, and that the humans are the ones fighting other humans like Pokemon! (Dun dun DDUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNN!). Should Solgaleo or Lunala be the villains, they would probably control and manipulate the boss of the possible evil team. (Using the Man behind the Man TVtrope).



I believe that they could just look back at Pokken Tournament with Shadow Mewtwo. If you fight in-game story S.M., he is CRAZY ridiculous (he has 1000 HP at the first 3 encounters, 3000 HP at the final encounter)! But human playable Shadow Mewtwo, still strong but has the lowest base HP of 480 and just dies so fast (with Machamp getting the highest at 660). While I like your idea, the only way I can really see this working is for this game to have a Difficulty Setting.

I already suggested in one of my earlier posts on another Pokemon Sun and Moon Gameplay thread that Difficulty setting should already be from the start where they ask the player questions. While a really challenging game is great, or DARK SOULS "GET READY TO DIE!" difficulty, honestly, how many players can complete a really high difficulty? From what I read at a Game Designer blog on tumblr, more than 50% players cannot complete a hard and normal mode level of difficulty. Maybe it is simply the fear of difficulty designs that scare customers.

Would you play an extremely hard video game casually? For me I would stay away. However, plot difficulty bosses are fine. If you ask me, GAME FREAK NEEDS the wisdom and knowledge of Platinum Games (the game designing company that made the Bayonetta Series. Mind you, this game is Hardcore) when it comes to making VERY challenging games and STILL make it possible for players with commitment to beat it.

Yeah I mean it's not much different than what they do in the Mystery Dungeon games, I'm pretty sure all the bosses are temporarily buffed until you can actually use them, and then they go back to normal.

I think people are being a little over dramatic about how hard the legendaries would be to beat, but it's like... that's the point. It's a boss lol, and c'mon be real, who doesn't have a million revives and potions in their bag by that point of the game? You already have an unfair advantage to any boss in the game, since you essentially have infinite lives. Make the bosses stronger to compensate.

 

[Lykouros]

Yeah I mean it's not much different than what they do in the Mystery Dungeon games, I'm pretty sure all the bosses are temporarily buffed until you can actually use them, and then they go back to normal.

I love the Mystery Dungeon games for this reason, but I will add that while I enjoyed the challenge of the later bosses, many of my friends stopped playing or gradually lost interest as the bosses become more challenging. This is why a difficulty option, rather than a blanket default, would be appreciated~

 

[Mudster]

With the presence of Zygarde's newest forme's finally getting an in-game appearance, I do hope that it gets some secondary storyline after Solgaleo and Lunala and not just a lazy "here is an item to let you attain these forms".

The existing lore implies that Zygarde has heavy links to Kalos and nothing to do with Alola. This is understandable, as why would the developers tell us more than we need to know about a (at the time) future region? They wouldn't, rather using the hints like the strange souvenir to tease us and get us hyped for what might come. For me though, there are two main options that I can think of (completely not an exhaustive list!):

1. We're going back to Kalos post-game. Game file size isn't an issue, and as long as they don't shrink it or cheapen it like GS did to Kanto, I'm happy. Plus this could also tie in further explaining AZ, etc.

2. They simply add to the existing lore and Zygarde has ties to something happening in Alola as well. Sadly, I think this is more likely based on past experience, but I would love to be proved wrong.

 

[Remmie]

I'd say the Sun villains will all use Solrocks and the Moon villains will all have Lunatones. Because why not? Can't get more sun and moon themed pokemon more than these 2 fellows. Right? I'd like that the Sun and Moon main villains might be twins, like polar-opposite twins. The sun one dress in bright colors and has a cheerful personality while the moon one dress in dark colors and is stoic and all that. Might look like Leona and Diana from League of Legends, okay I know those two are not related in the game but you get the idea, right?

 

[mozao]

For Kalos to fit in the game, we would also need that both regions combined give a reasonable endgame player level. What happened in GS is not that the developers were complete slackers and left Kanto like that because they are lazy. They shrunk Kanto so that the endgame level wouldn't be absurdly high. I usually finish the Johto part of GS around level 40-45 (which is low for a region, they did that to make some space for Kanto), and then finish the Kanto part around level 60-65, which is a reasonable endgame. If they didn't shrunk Kanto we would probably finish the game around level 80-90. Now, take in consideration that Kalos is huge and has an endgame of around level 65. They would need to make Alola relatively small (which doesn't seem to be the case), and then severely reduce Kalos' size. I don't want that to happen. Maybe we'll do visit Kalos in the post-game, but only a very small part of it (let's say, Couriway, Route 18 and Terminus Cave, for Zygarde reasons), and I would enjoy that. But a full Kalos map with reduced areas and features and much less trainers, no I wouldn't.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

For Kalos to fit in the game, we would also need that both regions combined give a reasonable endgame player level. What happened in GS is not that the developers were complete slackers and left Kanto like that because they are lazy. They shrunk Kanto so that the endgame level wouldn't be absurdly high. I usually finish the Johto part of GS around level 40-45 (which is low for a region, they did that to make some space for Kanto), and then finish the Kanto part around level 60-65, which is a reasonable endgame. If they didn't shrunk Kanto we would probably finish the game around level 80-90. Now, take in consideration that Kalos is huge and has an endgame of around level 65. They would need to make Alola relatively small (which doesn't seem to be the case), and then severely reduce Kalos' size. I don't want that to happen. Maybe we'll do visit Kalos in the post-game, but only a very small part of it (let's say, Couriway, Route 18 and Terminus Cave, for Zygarde reasons), and I would enjoy that. But a full Kalos map with reduced areas and features and much less trainers, no I wouldn't.

Nope, the level issue happened because of the stupid pitchfork in Ecruteak. Not because of the designers making a competent choice.

That sandbox element ****ed leveling beyond reason and thus left Kanto at a ridiculously low level.

 

[mozao]

Nope, the level issue happened because of the stupid pitchfork in Ecruteak. Not because of the designers making a competent choice.

That sandbox element ****ed leveling beyond reason and thus left Kanto at a ridiculously low level.

I never said it was a competent choice, in fact I just stated I don't want it to happen again. Yes, the pitchfork was a mistake, and it made the trainer levels low thus reducing the experience gained and the player level by the end of the region. Still, that has little to do with my whole point. The fact is that both regions were small so this made the endgame level be a good one. It doesn't matter if Johto made Kanto's level low. Even if there was no pitchfork, Johto would still be a small region (after the first gym, every city has a gym), and probably you would defeat Lance by level 45-50. That's still low by the standard, and it wouldn't change shrinking of Kanto, which was the point being discussed, not the low level of the region.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

I get it, I mean jotho has a nice level curve up to sudowodo, but them with surf available and backtracking becoming an option... It just fell flat on its face.

I rather have some fat guys in a bridge if it secures the leveling curve than us traveling to every island in the beginning potentially destroying any sense of accomplishment from breaking level 40.

 

[Wulava]

DPPt, BW/B2W2, XYORAS main game peaks at an average of Lv.60-65.
Post-game levels (rematches) typically peak at Lv.75-80.

They can peak Alola at Lv.60-65. Post-game Kalos can use the Lv.75-80 range.
I don't see any problem with that.

Johto is a considerably small region, so it's not surprising if the endgame levels aren't really as high compared to the others.
BTW, in HGSS, Kanto is no longer shrunk in size. And the Leaders are more or less 10 levels higher than GSC.
And the Round 2 of the League peaks at Lv.75, compared to GSC which was kept at Lv50.

tl;dr Assuming we get Kalos post-game, Alola can use the usual level curve and have the Champion at Lv.60-65. Post-game Kalos can go all out.

 

[mozao]

I get it, I mean jotho has a nice level curve up to sudowodo, but them with surf available and backtracking becoming an option... It just fell flat on its face.

I rather have some fat guys in a bridge if it secures the leveling curve than us traveling to every island in the beginning potentially destroying any sense of accomplishment from breaking level 40.

Agreed. It does take a lot from the challenge of the game. Games like Pokemon and Mother are meant to be linear and roadblocks are vital.

DPPt, BW/B2W2, XYORAS main game peaks at an average of Lv.60-65.
Post-game levels (rematches) typically peak at Lv.75-80.

They can peak Alola at Lv.60-65. Post-game Kalos can use the Lv.75-80 range.
I don't see any problem with that.

Johto is a considerably small region, so it's not surprising if the endgame levels aren't really as high compared to the others.
BTW, in HGSS, Kanto is no longer shrunk in size. And the Leaders are more or less 10 levels higher than GSC.
And the Round 2 of the League peaks at Lv.75, compared to GSC which was kept at Lv50.

tl;dr Assuming we get Kalos post-game, Alola can use the usual level curve and have the Champion at Lv.60-65. Post-game Kalos can go all out.

I can see that technically working, even though I won't be super happy with a main story peaking at 80. I just hope they don't repeat the mistake of the second generation, that wasn't completely fixed in HGSS -- there are still a lot less trainers (no trainers at all in Rock Tunnel and Mt. Moon, for example, as well as the size of these areas being severely reduced).

 

[Alexander18]

Even if we don't get Kalos post game, we could get the VS Seeker which could help make trainers stronger and there is the level boost for the 2nd challenge of the pokemon league. Not to mention post game islands which can house powerful trainers and pokemon. For the story, I don't think Zygarde won't be apart of it as Solgaleo and Lunala would be the main focus of the bad guys plan.