• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Team Skull, Aether Foundation and Plot Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
I am sorry if this will bother anyone but this is the worst enemy team in the history of pokemon games.

- Team Skull does NOTHING during the entire game. Even the random civilians take them as a complete joke.
- Aether Foundation is out of nowhere working with Team Skull which, with the information that we've had on them before the 4th island, makes no sense whatsoever.
- Aether Foundation president suddenly does a complete 180 and decides to fall in love with Ultra Beasts and become evil.
- Aether Foundation president ISN'T even a villain. Her motives aren't even evil. They are ''I want to live among Ultra Beasts'' and that is all. Really villainous motivation.
- There is NO high stakes battle at the end. Gen 3 onwards the fate of the world was in the balance. This time NOTHING is at balance because the main villain isn't interested in doing anything evil.

Worst villains ever.

I mean she kept Pokemon frozen in icebergs, disowned her children and tortured Cosmog to open the wormhole.

Sounds like a villain to me
 

Ajduk

Well-Known Member
I mean she kept Pokemon frozen in icebergs, disowned her children and tortured Cosmog to open the wormhole.

Sounds like a villain to me

She is a bad person but she is far from villain.
Now take that what you've just said and tell me how she compares to Archie/Maxie, Cyrus, Ghetsis and Lysandre?
Those guys sought to murder untold amounts of people and pokemon and conquer the world. She had disowned her children and tortured Cosmog.
She is not a villain. She can't even stand in the shadow of those others. Even Giovanni was more villainous than her!
 
Last edited:

Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
Personally I'm happy with a more character driven plot, and less of an over the top "let's use the legend and destroy the world" stuff.
 

Tropios

':o Me is stinky??'
She is a bad person but she is far from villain.
Now take that what you've just said and tell me how she compares to Archie/Maxie, Cyrus, Ghetsis and Lysandre?
Those guys sought to murder untold amounts of people and pokemon and conquer the world. She had disowned her children and tortured Cosmog.
She is not a villain. She can't even stand in the shadow of those others. Even Giovanni was more villainous than her!

And yet she manages to be more cruel and deranged than all of them. She didn't care that the ultra beasts would destroy Alola, so there was on fact something at stake. It doesn't always have to be the cliché 'let's destroy the world' plan anyways.

It's okay if you don't like her personally, but for me she was the best villain yet. If anything she certainly was interesting!
 

cl94

Well-Known Member
Starting in Gen III, every team wanted to destroy the world and that was their big objective. It got old in Gen IV. It's not nearly as over the top and, I can't believe I'm saying this, but "more realistic" than anything we've seen in years.
 

ReneEnjolras

Explorer of Ruins
Starting in Gen III, every team wanted to destroy the world and that was their big objective. It got old in Gen IV. It's not nearly as over the top and, I can't believe I'm saying this, but "more realistic" than anything we've seen in years.
I will point out that Teams Magma and Aqua didn't WANT to destroy the world, they wanted to change it. Cyrus wanted to recreate the universe without human emotions, Ghetsis wanted to take over Unova/the Pokeworld and Flare wanted to destroy everyone besides them (like the Nazis) but still keep the world around. But yes, Lusamine is very refreshing as a villain.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
I am sorry if this will bother anyone but this is the worst enemy team in the history of pokemon games.

- Team Skull does NOTHING during the entire game. Even the random civilians take them as a complete joke.
- Aether Foundation is out of nowhere working with Team Skull which, with the information that we've had on them before the 4th island, makes no sense whatsoever.
- Aether Foundation president suddenly does a complete 180 and decides to fall in love with Ultra Beasts and become evil.
- Aether Foundation president ISN'T even a villain. Her motives aren't even evil. They are ''I want to live among Ultra Beasts'' and that is all. Really villainous motivation.
- There is NO high stakes battle at the end. Gen 3 onwards the fate of the world was in the balance. This time NOTHING is at balance because the main villain isn't interested in doing anything evil.

Worst villains ever.
With all due respect,

-Skull did take over an entire city. A walled one at that...
-It wasn't out of nowhere, it was supposed to be a plot twist. Which I'm guessing worked as you didn't see it coming.
-It wasn't sudden, it was clear she had this obsession for awhile.
-Well, they were originally planning to bring the UBs to their world, which would've caused heaps of trouble.
-Can't really argue with this, but I wouldn't say gen 3 and onwards, as the stakes weren't really high in gen 5. In BW Plasma was basically just PETA and in their sequels (to my knowledge) they were only planning to freeze Unova.
 

cl94

Well-Known Member
The obsession is evident during the tour of Aether Paradise. Gladion states that she got the obsession around the time her husband was sucked into a wormhole when he gives you Type: Null.

It appears that people either loved or hated the lack of a high stakes battle at the end of the plot. As a person who started playing in Gen I, I was never a big fan of the "fate of the region/world is at risk" final boss battle and I loved the return to the roots of the series. Regardless of what happens the final time you battle Lusamine, nothing would likely change in Alola as Lusamine would just stay in the Ultra Realm.
 

goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
With all due respect,

-Skull did take over an entire city. A walled one at that...
-It wasn't out of nowhere, it was supposed to be a plot twist. Which I'm guessing worked as you didn't see it coming.
-It wasn't sudden, it was clear she had this obsession for awhile.
-Well, they were originally planning to bring the UBs to their world, which would've caused heaps of trouble.
-Can't really argue with this, but I wouldn't say gen 3 and onwards, as the stakes weren't really high in gen 5. In BW Plasma was basically just PETA and in their sequels (to my knowledge) they were only planning to freeze Unova.
Just to add on. That wasn't just the plan, that is what happened. (Though possibly to a lesser extent) And for team skull, they were working for Lusamine not the otherway around or the whole foundation. plus I'd add more on the atmosphere of Po town and thus team skull, both of it rasing the possibility of death and while that was also foreshadowing, it wasn't even fully guarded when we attacked it.
 

cl94

Well-Known Member
I'd assume that Po Town's wall was built by Skull. Also, we don't know how easily the residents left. Were they forced out, or did they just want to move away from the gang activity?
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
I'd assume that Po Town's wall was built by Skull. Also, we don't know how easily the residents left. Were they forced out, or did they just want to move away from the gang activity?
I doubt Skull built that entire wall. Doesn't seem like anything they would be able to do.

As for that last thing... That's a good question. I want to say they were forced out, but Nanu still lives there...
 

diakyu

Well-Known Member
Well this is certainly a post.
I am sorry if this will bother anyone but this is the worst enemy team in the history of pokemon games.

- Team Skull does NOTHING during the entire game. Even the random civilians take them as a complete joke.
- Aether Foundation is out of nowhere working with Team Skull which, with the information that we've had on them before the 4th island, makes no sense whatsoever.
- Aether Foundation president suddenly does a complete 180 and decides to fall in love with Ultra Beasts and become evil.
- Aether Foundation president ISN'T even a villain. Her motives aren't even evil. They are ''I want to live among Ultra Beasts'' and that is all. Really villainous motivation.
- There is NO high stakes battle at the end. Gen 3 onwards the fate of the world was in the balance. This time NOTHING is at balance because the main villain isn't interested in doing anything evil.

Worst villains ever.
1. That's the joke. They're delinquents who just make a ruckus and do Lusamine's bidding when she needs them to without their knowledge. You're not supposed to hate Team Skull or view them as the bad guys. They're tools being manipulated by Lusamine.
2. Correction, Guzma is working with Lusamine. Team Skull and Aether Foundation grunts are mostly in the dark about their cooperation.
3. She's nuts dude, has been since Lillie was a young girl. There's no front because she literally does an evil smirk the first time you met her. Also don't trust people spewing crap about spreading their love to everything.
4. She doesn't want to do evil per say, but she's still a horrible person who through her actions could have brought the destruction of Alola and the death of Cosmog.
5. This is a non-issue, not all stories need an "Oh GOD THE WORLD IS ENDING" moment. It's a personal story about Lillie and her family.

Lusamine is a villain through and through though and there is no arguing this, she was a crazy woman who needed to be stopped. Whether you think she stands up to the rest is up to you. Better than Giovanni like you stated a few posts up by a country mile and probably the best when it came to a laid out plan next to Ghetsis.

Seeing a lot of stuff about how she treat Lillie and Cosmog but her treatment of Guzma is really no better. Taking advantage of someone who was abused like that then saying in front of him that she no longer needs him and that he's useless when all he wanted was to be treated with respect after his father beat him. It's just not right.
 
Last edited:

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
Seeing a lot of stuff about how she treat Lillie and Cosmog but her treatment of Guzma is really no better. Taking advantage of someone who was abused like that then saying in front of him that she no longer needs him and that he's useless when all he wanted was to be treated with respect after his father beat him. It's just not right.
Wait, Guzma's father abused him?

When was that stated?
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
Isn't stated explicitly, but implied when talking to his father at his house.
I just did a quick internet search, and... Wow.

Everytime I think these games couldn't get darker...

Edit: Wait, in another translation of the game, it says the father says he got beat in a Pokémon battle. So, no Guzma being abused?
 
Last edited:

cl94

Well-Known Member
Except the original Japanese literally states he was "beaten black and blue". I'd take that over the German.
 

goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
It's definitely an implication, and because of that not all translations are necessarily going to pick up on it. Anyway the exact events have a range of interpretations because it's not outright stated, It's entirely possible that the Father was beaten in a pokemon battle while still beating his son physically in fact even once I picked up on the implications Guzma beating his dad up the same way wasn't my 1st thought. I think that way might actually make more sense (or at least be more consistent, since there's only so much sense in situations like this) him internalizing it into Pokemon battling and beating people down that way.

Edit: The talk of beating is coming from the father (this is in regards to the black and blue statement mainly) who would be aware of and could correlate events and thus might use language more appropriate to one event when talking about the other.
 
Last edited:

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
Honestly, given the depth of the characterization in these games, I hope we learn more about the characters. Whether it's through sequel versions or through supplemental materials, I really want more insight into Lusamine's past and future, what path Guzma will take in the future, background on characters like Kahili, etc. I don't think the series has ever had this many interesting characters, and keeping Alola as a whole to a rather small and close main cast might have been a great decision. Past-gen characters that even begin to approach these levels are probably only Cynthia, N, Silver, and maybe Wally. Maybe I'm biased because of the newness of the generation but that's just what I'm feeling right now.
 

Aleh

«Last Hope»
Lusamine is actually a very complex character, she isn't just evil or crazy, after her husband disappeared into the wormhole she started becoming obsessed with Nihilego because of the research left behind by him and because she wanted to find him again. Then, presumably, after she first managed to get in contact with the beast by hurting Cosmog to make it open another portal, she started getting manipulated by Nihilego's toxins which amplified her nature and made her go more insane, to the point where she made her daughter dress like the beast she loves so much (and then disown both her children after they betray her and steal Type: Null and Cosmog) and carelessly opened the wormholes all over Alola to make the beasts run wild and wreck havoc to "express their feelings of rage" from being in a world that's not theirs. After she was freed from the merge with the beast in the Ultra Space we see a glimpse of her real loving mother side, and then the story is left opened as Lillie goes to Kanto to find a way to cure her completely.
Definitely not shallow, and definitely not simply evil but not even simply corrupted
 

KalosChampion

Well-Known Member
I think Lusamine is the best/worst villain that Pokémon has had, if you get what I mean. Maybe she didn't kill people or take over the world, but that doesn't mean she'a not a complex villain. It reminds me of something I read online about the Harry Potter villains, and it's what makes Dolores Umbridge one of my "favorite" antagonists of all time. It said that Lord Voldemort is the kind of evil you read about in books, but Umbridge (and in this case, Lusamine) leave the biggest impact on fans because they're the kind of evil you experience in real life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top