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Team Skull, Aether Foundation and Plot Discussion Thread [Contains Story Spoilers]

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cl94

Well-Known Member
Now that we know that Lusamine and Pheromosa doesn't have anything in common, why do they look so much alike? And Xurkitree/Guzma, Nihilego/Lillie?

Lillie stated pretty early on that her mother chose all of her outfits. She was dressed like Nihilego due to Lusamine's obsession.
 
Apologies if this is the wrong thread...or if someone pointed it out before, but the trees in Ultra Space look a heck of a lot like the trees in Distortion World. I feel like the implication that Giratina (or Giratina/Palkia/Dialga) is (are) an Ultra Beast(s). Which would be an awesome tie back, and similar to what Episode Delta did with X & Y....

I don't know, just something I noticed.
 

Tropios

':o Me is stinky??'
Lillie stated pretty early on that her mother chose all of her outfits. She was dressed like Nihilego due to Lusamine's obsession.

Yep, I think the similarities people see between Pheromosa/Lusamine and Xurkitree/Guzma are mostly because they were looking for it after finding out Nihilego looks like Lillie.
 

Rio!

Composer
Apologies if this is the wrong thread...or if someone pointed it out before, but the trees in Ultra Space look a heck of a lot like the trees in Distortion World. I feel like the implication that Giratina (or Giratina/Palkia/Dialga) is (are) an Ultra Beast(s). Which would be an awesome tie back, and similar to what Episode Delta did with X & Y....

I don't know, just something I noticed.
That could potentially be a nice eventual tie-in, as the Distortion world is a vast, unexplored area no one in the real world would know of. Then too, it's already been acknowledged in ORAS alternate dimensions exist so it possible neither one has anything to do with the other.



Lillie stated pretty early on that her mother chose all of her outfits. She was dressed like Nihilego due to Lusamine's obsession.

Yep, which is one of the reasons why Lusamine considered her children to be 'ugly' since both Gladion and Lillie rebelled against her in their own ways.
Honestly this gen is a lot more relatable emotionally in comparison to past games which is an aspect I also enjoyed. ;P
 

KingMinun

Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!
Finally finished the story, and well, what a story, think this was my favourite story in all of the games. Loved Skull and loved Aether, I liked that Lusamine turned out to be the villian which was suspected, but hated people speculating that Skull would turn out to be good and Aether would be bad, that didn't sit with me, Skull were stealing pokemon and terrorizing people so they were villians too me, so I was glad that it turned out that Skull were actually working for Aether.
 
Finally finished the story, and well, what a story, think this was my favourite story in all of the games. Loved Skull and loved Aether, I liked that Lusamine turned out to be the villian which was suspected, but hated people speculating that Skull would turn out to be good and Aether would be bad, that didn't sit with me, Skull were stealing pokemon and terrorizing people so they were villians too me, so I was glad that it turned out that Skull were actually working for Aether.

I agree wholeheartedly. Granted, I have yet to play White 2 to finish my Unova adventure, so some time next year I plan on playing trough White, White 2 and then Moon to compare the two storylines as a whole, seeing as White 2 was very well received critically, and I finished Black 2 for my little brother...but yeah, it's the most fun I think I've ever had with a Pokémon game. With X, I sped through, completing the game in around 12/13 hours (by this I mean entering the Hall of Fame), and was pretty bored thereafter. With OR, I decided to take a bit longer, challenging every trainer, which took me about 14/15 hours. In this game, I slowed down to a snail pace like I did on my initial technical entry into the franchise, Ruby (and then pretty much the same in Diamond), exploring every area, battling every trainer, and catching as many Pokémon as I could (must have caught about 90 around the time of entering the Hall of Fame!). It took me almost 24 hours and I loved every moment!

Almost every single character in this game was fleshed out in some way that Gen VI felt lacking, and I can't tell for the life of me whether that's down to the dialogue or their new range of movements, but this game had the same sort of attachment, at least personally, that I had before Gen VI - to my Pokémon, the lore, the trainers. Gladion is probably the greatest pseudo rival we've had since N, and Hau the most memorable main rival for me since Barry and then later on Silver's reintroduction in Gen IV. Not sure what it is about having a "grey/ay" rival that is so compelling in these games, but perhaps that's just because it's realistic. Peopleare used and they are likely to stand for what they believe in, often regardless of the cost, whereas many rivals before have been black and white or too buddy-buddy for my liking.

As for Aether and Skull? Wow. What a way to speak to the hardcore fans and newbies, as well as those returning for these games! I remember reading that Satoshi Tajiri based a lot of his Pokémon concept on his love for catching bugs, which became more difficult due to pollution in major cities, and these teams really hit that message home for me, clear as day, and as has been said, the focus on family, nature and how we interact with these realities - perhaps the most important message in any game of the last few years in my opinion - is more than welcome and perfectly poised. These games leave a lot of questions, and as someone who's been a lifelong fan - bar a year out for BW2, but we're all on-and-off with things that we love - that was seriously considering walking out whether SM was the greatest Pokémon game of all time or the worst after what i personally believe was a weaker generation, this game has me hooked. I want DP remakes, an Alola sequel, I want it all, and answers too! Who was Lusamine's dad that left that kind of money? How has Mohn gone unnoticed? Who is Hau's father? Why was Zygarde in Alola, and why is there a garden with the 50% motif built in a city founded by Johto and Kanto natives? How don't these games hint at some great next game tackling creation and the universe at large?

All in all, my favourite story in the Pokémon franchise - just edging out BW - and easily the most fun I've ever had in a Pokémon game. I look forward to the next one with 100% of my cells! :p
 

ReneEnjolras

Explorer of Ruins
I agree wholeheartedly. Granted, I have yet to play White 2 to finish my Unova adventure, so some time next year I plan on playing trough White, White 2 and then Moon to compare the two storylines as a whole, seeing as White 2 was very well received critically, and I finished Black 2 for my little brother...but yeah, it's the most fun I think I've ever had with a Pokémon game. With X, I sped through, completing the game in around 12/13 hours (by this I mean entering the Hall of Fame), and was pretty bored thereafter. With OR, I decided to take a bit longer, challenging every trainer, which took me about 14/15 hours. In this game, I slowed down to a snail pace like I did on my initial technical entry into the franchise, Ruby (and then pretty much the same in Diamond), exploring every area, battling every trainer, and catching as many Pokémon as I could (must have caught about 90 around the time of entering the Hall of Fame!). It took me almost 24 hours and I loved every moment!

Almost every single character in this game was fleshed out in some way that Gen VI felt lacking, and I can't tell for the life of me whether that's down to the dialogue or their new range of movements, but this game had the same sort of attachment, at least personally, that I had before Gen VI - to my Pokémon, the lore, the trainers. Gladion is probably the greatest pseudo rival we've had since N, and Hau the most memorable main rival for me since Barry and then later on Silver's reintroduction in Gen IV. Not sure what it is about having a "grey/ay" rival that is so compelling in these games, but perhaps that's just because it's realistic. Peopleare used and they are likely to stand for what they believe in, often regardless of the cost, whereas many rivals before have been black and white or too buddy-buddy for my liking.

As for Aether and Skull? Wow. What a way to speak to the hardcore fans and newbies, as well as those returning for these games! I remember reading that Satoshi Tajiri based a lot of his Pokémon concept on his love for catching bugs, which became more difficult due to pollution in major cities, and these teams really hit that message home for me, clear as day, and as has been said, the focus on family, nature and how we interact with these realities - perhaps the most important message in any game of the last few years in my opinion - is more than welcome and perfectly poised. These games leave a lot of questions, and as someone who's been a lifelong fan - bar a year out for BW2, but we're all on-and-off with things that we love - that was seriously considering walking out whether SM was the greatest Pokémon game of all time or the worst after what i personally believe was a weaker generation, this game has me hooked. I want DP remakes, an Alola sequel, I want it all, and answers too! Who was Lusamine's dad that left that kind of money? How has Mohn gone unnoticed? Who is Hau's father? Why was Zygarde in Alola, and why is there a garden with the 50% motif built in a city founded by Johto and Kanto natives? How don't these games hint at some great next game tackling creation and the universe at large?

All in all, my favourite story in the Pokémon franchise - just edging out BW - and easily the most fun I've ever had in a Pokémon game. I look forward to the next one with 100% of my cells! :p
This post and most of the above posts sum up my feelings as well. I liked the emotional plot, even though I'm not finished with the game (spoilers don't ruin it for me, reading spoilers is different than reading the in-game text and seeing the cutscenes to me).
 

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
Lusamine was pretty much nuts. Freezing Pokemon so she could love them forever was just torture! And the fact that she was paying Team Skull pretty much makes her the true leader of the group. You could tell that all the Aether Foundation employees were shocked to learn all this by what they did after you cleared the game.
 

BlitzGirl41

Well-Known Member
This post and most of the above posts sum up my feelings as well. I liked the emotional plot, even though I'm not finished with the game (spoilers don't ruin it for me, reading spoilers is different than reading the in-game text and seeing the cutscenes to me).

I have to agree with your comment. I got a lot of "spoilers" of the plot in the form of reading things here and elsewhere that I didn't mean to read, but once I played the game it was HOW the twists and events were implemented in the game that surprised me regardless of what I knew beforehand.
 

Xweek

Diligent Shipper
Eh.

Team Skull were ace. They managed to be a call back to Team Rocket while being fresh and interesting. Po Town legitimately gave me chills when I was going through there in the story, and Guzma is hilarious yet sympathetic. Plumeria and the other grunts also have a cool dynamic with each other.

The Aether Foundation...I just couldn't connect with that part of the story. The games throws them on you suddenly at the end of Akala Island (which surprised me, I though they'd be introduced sooner given the intro cutscene), and by the time you're done with the next island their part of the story is practically finished. And the brevity of their secret base leaves me with very little lasting impression. It just feels like they needed to fill their quotient for epic story events that team Skull couldn't provide so they threw them in haphazardly and then tied it to Lillie's growth arc after that. I'm sorry, I felt more from N's story than Lillie or Lusamine's story. The fact that the foundation actually is legitimately good when not under crazy Lusamine or Faba's control is a nice twist though.
 

cl94

Well-Known Member
Team Skull was basically a gangster Team Rocket. They were a big reason why I think these games had some of the Gen I/II charm.
 

Rio!

Composer
'Ya'll are stupid!' Best quote of all.

"Get out."
- Quoth Gladion, Roadside Motel, Route 8

Follows closely here, I think. I snorted at the screen for a good 5 mins or so. x)
 

Graficcha

Team Magma Scientist
Also, I have a question. I'm not really sure what Guzma's motive was to go to Ultra Space with Lusamine. Can anyone explain?

Considering Guzma's background as someone who probably struggled all his life to be taken seriously, Lusamine presumably giving him the 'you're a great and strong trainer/person and I want you as my partner in crime' shtick worked like honey on a combee. Imagine growing up in what's likely to not be a very safe or stable household, learning you can't get any credit if you're not number one (he clearly gets amped up about winning or losing to the point where he practically beats himself up violently when he loses), and then having someone treat you like the one thing you've always wanted to be: someone who gets some darn freakin' respect.

When that one person deigns him worthy enough to involve him in her plans gets her heinie in trouble, I can only imagine him following her straight into hell, loyal like a puppydog. After all, Lusamine's on his side, right? And he can't go failing the one person who admitted he's not a loser now, imagine how shameful that'd be.

Of course, she drops him like a rock anyway. As nuts as she is at the time we meet her in the game, she's clearly still cunning enough to know when she's got an easy target in front of her, and he's easy to manipulate.

I find Guzma's character to have all kinds of interesting facets to it. He's loyal to his grunts, to Lusamine, to his Pokémon (I mean honestly, he raised a wimpod), even if he's a raging bucket of adrenalin that's probably kind of difficult to be around when he's riled up. He grew into the role of boisterous boss of a gang of social rejects so much I can only imagine the dude's got some trouble turning the aggression volume back down. Got an image to keep up, people to defeat, would be hard to do if you let your heart bleed too much.

I really, really love the characters in this story. As out-there as the stories are, I find a young kid running away from an abusive home and trying to find his place in a the world and a bunch of discouraged dropouts way more relatable than anything you could do 'for the evulz'. Lillie's a bit more stereotypically 'the timid girl growing brave' but many people understand what it's like to wrestle yourself free from parental control and gaining confidence in your own choices, too.

Heck, even Hau's got more depth to him than 'the eternal smileyface'. He clearly had a method to his madness, and I actually started to enjoy running into him. He's a dork but he's clearly a capable trainer and he's willing to put in a lot of effort to get where he is and to help people, even if he could've easily taken an easier route of moping forever that he just can't be as strong as the kahuna before him. It takes quite a strength of character to choose so radically for good things and pushing yourself and enjoying the journey, in those aspects I find him a good example for people.

Granted, I also had my phase where I believed people like that could only be phony as hell : B
 

Dragon Pulse

Well-Known Member
I wish we had seen more of Lusamine. She was an amazing villain and, overall, my favorite villain in the series.
 
'Ya'll are stupid!' Best quote of all.

"Get out."
- Quoth Gladion, Roadside Motel, Route 8

Follows closely here, I think. I snorted at the screen for a good 5 mins or so. x)

Both of these quotes are brilliant. The Gladion one made me laugh because not only was I not expecting him to be there, but after he said it I proceeded to explore the entire motel room.

Guzma's is funny for obvious reasons.
 

BlitzGirl41

Well-Known Member
Both of these quotes are brilliant. The Gladion one made me laugh because not only was I not expecting him to be there, but after he said it I proceeded to explore the entire motel room.

Guzma's is funny for obvious reasons.

With that face Guzma made when he said that line, I really believed that the UBs and Ultra Space had truly messed with his mind! XD
 

Aleh

«Last Hope»
I don't agree leaving Lusamine in the Ultra Space would have been harmless. She went insane and was controlled by a beast that likes to make people violent and all, and you leave her there uncontrolled? It reminds me of Cyrus staying in the Distortion world. He had no one that cared about him enough to save him, and who knows what he is gonna be able to do there, in a dimention no one knows much about, he wanted to reset the universe for god's sake. Leaving him there was a risky move and I believe his story isn't over yet, and it's good that Lusamine was saved otherwise we would have another dangerous villain plotting who knows what.
Definitely an interesting nod to gen 4.
 

UltimateNinja

Praying for the holy relics
The story was quite good. Similiar handled like BW, but without such a super annoying story telling with NPC's stopping you every ten steps. The first hour was super slow, but after that, it was more free to explore.

Only problem was that the story took to much time to kickstart decently. Pretty much half of the game.

I like Lillie and I miss her already. She became such a enjoyable character near the end and I want to see more of her in later games.
 
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