Team Sub Hail

[Naoto Shirogane]

With my water sub team which made it to 1400 on smogon i decided to try other weathers to see how good they are, i made it to 1323 with this team and i am giving up on it because i have a sun sub team currently destroying everyone.

main bases of the team

most pokemon have sub to surprise the foe and mess up their predictions.

Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain

I went with the sub leech here to drain the foes pokemon while gaining hp and so when i go for a switch i can gain hp when i can take damage, switching to walrein is very useful once i have leech set because walrein will gain so much hp. I put blizzard on to do as much damage as i can to dragons or any flying type pokemon, next i put on giga drain to kill Poiltoad and to regain hp if i control the weather it will give me the advantage.

Walrein (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic


Walrein has always been one of my best pokemon in games so i added it to my hail team, Walreins ability is very useful to stall pokemon because not only does it gain hp from leftovers but as long as i control the weather it will gain even more hp with ice body making it a fascinating staller. with protect it gives me a chance to gain hp back when i am low so this can be very useful to take hits or even to pp stall, next i have sub so i can stall the pokemon to death while healing from ice body and leftovers, i put toxic on to do damage pokemon even more with hail up not only will it take damage from hail but with toxic it because a big threat and may cause the foe to switch while i can set up sub and use toxic again. as you can see i have picked blizzard again to do max damage.

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder

Every time i see a Rotom w i think it is scarfed well once again i am going leave the foe shocked when they switch into a ground type to do this i will use sub right away this gives me an advantage so i can see what my foe will do next. I needed thunderbolt to hurt those annoying water pokemon such as Poiltoad but as you can see i have thunder too, i have thunder to abuse the rain when Politoad is sent out so not only will the foe have problems with sub but now you have a Rotom w in sub with thunder which can take down a rain team easy and letting me regain control of the weather. When the foe switches to a ground type they are going to be hit by a hydropump which could 1ko them and if it is raining hydropump becomes stronger so i hate to be my foe once i have my Rotom set because they are going have trouble dealing with this unless they have a grass pokemon.

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit


Scizor is used in nearer every team these days and this is why i must use it because it is very powerful due to it's bug/steel type making it very useful, I put choice band on so i can damage pokes with resist Scizors moves. i put u turn on so i can switch to a poke while doing big damage to the foes pokemon, next i put on bullet punch so i can move first and take down any threats which are really fast i can also use it to take down a choice scarf terrikion which is a big threat to my team. I put on superpower to 1ko Ferrothorn which can damage my team.

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic

This is on off my best stalling sets for Gliscor, as you can see i have enough speed to outspeed Rotom w. This allows me to set up sub/protect and i can stall Hydro Pump until rotom has no way of damaging Gliscor. Earthquake is used to deal with Terrkion and Ninetails so it can not set up sun.

Hydreigon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Substitute

I love this set when i catch sub because your foes don't see it coming so i can quickly deal a lot of damage to lots of pokes such as Poiltoad by using dragon pulse i can do over 50% damage which means next turn i can kill it and control the weather. Fire blast is a strong move and can deal wih those annoying steal types such as Ferrothorn but i also have focus blast to deal with Heatran it wont be able to kill it in 2 turns but it can do some damage which Scizor can finish it off.

Spoiler: Export

Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain

Walrein (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic





Hydreigon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Substitute

 

[Aenea]

The only criticism I have for now is that scizor is your only real physical attacker. Gliscor is more of a staller so EQ doesn't count as much. I'd reccommend changing the Hydreigon to perhaps Haxorus, as I feel it would fit the team.

8/10.

 

[AquaRegisteel]

Well, nice job!

Firstly, I can say that I had trouble with this of course. Sub Hydreigon is a pain.

Right. I must say that you should change Rotom-W a bit. It has Thunder and Thunderbolt. Thunder is a bit off, so use a coverage move like HP Ice or HP Fire, as it gets walled by certain dragon types.

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

thanks guys anyway i dont like Haxorus anymore plus once it is burned it becomes useless

and yeah aqua it made me win that game

 

[Ninja Dewott]

^ Most phsyical attackers are, doesn't make them bad.

I would agree changing Hydreigon. You have many fighting weaknesses and only one resist. Swapping Hydreigon for Dragonite would help solve this problem, and you can run a Sub DD set which is similar and still pretty sexy.

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

^ Most phsyical attackers are, doesn't make them bad.

I would agree changing Hydreigon. You have many fighting weaknesses and only one resist. Swapping Hydreigon for Dragonite would help solve this problem, and you can run a Sub DD set which is similar and still pretty sexy.

hmm yeah may try um berry sub dd set so i can't get burnt

 

[jesusfreak94]

Eh, I noticed just a couple of things that I could offer advice on.

First is Rotom-W. It doesn't seem worth it to me to run Thunder for Rain teams when otherwise you'll have to contend with its shaky accuracy in Hail. There are a lot of other moves that you could replace it with for different utilities. Volt Switch, Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split, or Hidden Power will do, and they all will be more useful than Thunder 9 times out of 10.

On Scizor, I'd take out the speed EVs, placing 8 in HP and the other 8 in SpD to slightly better tank random Draco Meteors from Latios and whatnot (which your team honestly seems to struggle against in general). Besides, fewer speed EVs will guarantee that you will have the slower U-Turn against opposing CB Scizor that run any speed, which will give you the advantage in a U-Turn faceoff.

On Gliscor, Jolly nature with 184 EVs will guarantee that you outspeed all non-Scarf Rotom-W. Honestly, though, you really don't need to outspeed it to beat it with SubProtect. As long as you set up a Sub while Rotom-W switches in, you can cycle between Protect and Substitute until Rotom-W runs out of Hydro Pump PP. However, being faster will allow you to poison it with Toxic while safely behind the Sub, and you can just set up another one before Rotom-W gets the chance to even attack, so the Jolly + 184 EVs will get you there.

Just a couple of tidbits. Oh, and Hail is the best weather ever. Just saiyan.

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

Eh, I noticed just a couple of things that I could offer advice on.

First is Rotom-W. It doesn't seem worth it to me to run Thunder for Rain teams when otherwise you'll have to contend with its shaky accuracy in Hail. There are a lot of other moves that you could replace it with for different utilities. Volt Switch, Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split, or Hidden Power will do, and they all will be more useful than Thunder 9 times out of 10.

On Scizor, I'd take out the speed EVs, placing 8 in HP and the other 8 in SpD to slightly better tank random Draco Meteors from Latios and whatnot (which your team honestly seems to struggle against in general). Besides, fewer speed EVs will guarantee that you will have the slower U-Turn against opposing CB Scizor that run any speed, which will give you the advantage in a U-Turn faceoff.

On Gliscor, Jolly nature with 184 EVs will guarantee that you outspeed all non-Scarf Rotom-W. Honestly, though, you really don't need to outspeed it to beat it with SubProtect. As long as you set up a Sub while Rotom-W switches in, you can cycle between Protect and Substitute until Rotom-W runs out of Hydro Pump PP. However, being faster will allow you to poison it with Toxic while safely behind the Sub, and you can just set up another one before Rotom-W gets the chance to even attack, so the Jolly + 184 EVs will get you there.

Just a couple of tidbits. Oh, and Hail is the best weather ever. Just saiyan.

thanks i try them later on and i like rain better i seem to make better teams

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

i tested the dragonite sub dd and got a few wins thanks to it may use it in other teams

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

bumping

 

[Xenevix]

I don't really see how you think you can take on Blissey or Chansey. Scizor is the only one that can but if he's gone Chansey and Blissey have you walled. And you can't really stall it out 'cause seismic toss will easily break your subs and Toxic will be cured on a switch.

For Walrein I'd suggest Frost Breath over Blizzard. If you do lose the weather he's done. Frost Breath will also wreck CalmMind users that'll set up all over your team because you're mainly special i.e. Reuniclus (who you can't really stall cause of its ability, and your only counter is Scizor) and Latias. Overall Frost Breath is the way better option.

Hydreigon is inferior on this type of team compared to Haxorus or Dragonite. If you're worried about them getting burned hust give them a Lum or Rawst berry. And if you give them sub then burn won't work anyway. And Haxorus's Dual Chop will take out other teams subs all day.

I can see other sub teams and other stall teams giving this team an issue. But the biggest threat I see for this team is Prankster Sableye with Taunt.

 

[CharizardFan45]

Yeah this team seems kinda cheap just saying I wouldn't use it since stall is for pussies.

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

I don't really see how you think you can take on Blissey or Chansey. Scizor is the only one that can but if he's gone Chansey and Blissey have you walled. And you can't really stall it out 'cause seismic toss will easily break your subs and Toxic will be cured on a switch.

For Walrein I'd suggest Frost Breath over Blizzard. If you do lose the weather he's done. Frost Breath will also wreck CalmMind users that'll set up all over your team because you're mainly special i.e. Reuniclus (who you can't really stall cause of its ability, and your only counter is Scizor) and Latias. Overall Frost Breath is the way better option.

Hydreigon is inferior on this type of team compared to Haxorus or Dragonite. If you're worried about them getting burned hust give them a Lum or Rawst berry. And if you give them sub then burn won't work anyway. And Haxorus's Dual Chop will take out other teams subs all day.

I can see other sub teams and other stall teams giving this team an issue. But the biggest threat I see for this team is Prankster Sableye with Taunt.

my hyde can take out chansey or any of my pokes with toxic since heal bell ony has 5 pp and toxic has over 10 fair point on your other comments tho

 

[03Juice]

my hyde can take out chansey or any of my pokes with toxic since heal bell ony has 5 pp and toxic has over 10 fair point on your other comments tho

1) Yeah.. I don't think so. How is hydreigon gonna take out blissey or chansey? I think unboosted Focus Blast will do 150-200 tops. That's with hail a possible 4HKO.

Blissey's without Heal Bell/Aromatherapy can be defeated, as Walrein can possibly stall it out and it can be played around by other pokemon. But if you don't have Scizor anymore, you're screwed. Don't even think about not having Walrein as well.

Gliscor is the only other option on stalling him, but an uninvested unboosted Earthquake won't do a thing against a dedicated wall like Blissey. On top of that, Seismic Toss will always break your substitutes.

2) You should keep in mind is the fact that your team gets completely destroyed by a Fighting type pokemon running an Ice-type coverage move, examples would be: SDLucario (however he gets outsped by Hydreigon, if Hydreigon is gone, you're too), DDScrafty, Virizion and the like. Really consider replacing on of the team members by a pokemon that resists this combination, or doesn't take much damage from it. An example would be DDGyarados running Intimidate:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance

However, one should reconsider the use of Hail, as this hinders Gyarados' sweep greatly.

3) Change Thunder on Rotom-W. If you don't face a rain team it is a wasted slot.
In my opinion, should you face a rain team be sure to win the weather war. Rotom-W should run another move like: Pain Split, Hidden Power [Fire], Will-O-Wisp or Volt Switch.

4) Your team does not really benefit from the hail. It forces a lot of your pokemon to run a leftovers, and they don't even get recovery. Besides Walrein every member is hindered by the hail, as it takes your pokemon down quickly if substitute is used often. Therefore I would reconsider the necessity of running hail, and maybe look for better alternatives for Obamasnow and Walrein. I think this team even benefits more from permanent rain then it does from Hail. But I know you already made a rain team, but you should still consider it.

If you really want to run Hail, I would consider a bulky strong ice type like Kyurem or something of the like. A pokemon that actually benefits from it. SubKyurem is a very dangerous threat, you should consider using it.

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

1) Yeah.. I don't think so. How is hydreigon gonna take out blissey or chansey? I think unboosted Focus Blast will do 150-200 tops. That's with hail a possible 4HKO.

Blissey's without Heal Bell/Aromatherapy can be defeated, as Walrein can possibly stall it out and it can be played around by other pokemon. But if you don't have Scizor anymore, you're screwed. Don't even think about not having Walrein as well.

Gliscor is the only other option on stalling him, but an uninvested unboosted Earthquake won't do a thing against a dedicated wall like Blissey. On top of that, Seismic Toss will always break your substitutes.

2) You should keep in mind is the fact that your team gets completely destroyed by a Fighting type pokemon running an Ice-type coverage move, examples would be: SDLucario (however he gets outsped by Hydreigon, if Hydreigon is gone, you're too), DDScrafty, Virizion and the like. Really consider replacing on of the team members by a pokemon that resists this combination, or doesn't take much damage from it. An example would be DDGyarados running Intimidate:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance

However, one should reconsider the use of Hail, as this hinders Gyarados' sweep greatly.

3) Change Thunder on Rotom-W. If you don't face a rain team it is a wasted slot.
In my opinion, should you face a rain team be sure to win the weather war. Rotom-W should run another move like: Pain Split, Hidden Power [Fire], Will-O-Wisp or Volt Switch.

4) Your team does not really benefit from the hail. It forces a lot of your pokemon to run a leftovers, and they don't even get recovery. Besides Walrein every member is hindered by the hail, as it takes your pokemon down quickly if substitute is used often. Therefore I would reconsider the necessity of running hail, and maybe look for better alternatives for Obamasnow and Walrein. I think this team even benefits more from permanent rain then it does from Hail. But I know you already made a rain team, but you should still consider it.

If you really want to run Hail, I would consider a bulky strong ice type like Kyurem or something of the like. A pokemon that actually benefits from it. SubKyurem is a very dangerous threat, you should consider using it.

yeah don't worry about the hydreigon thing it was a joke because it can kill chansey with luck such as not missing and lowing it's sp def with forcus blast anyway yeah i agree with the rest of the comments