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The Beetle That Could

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by imoTangy, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. imoTangy

    imoTangy Member

    [OU] The Beetle That Could

    Hey guys, I'm Tangelo (aka Tangy). I'm pretty new to the Serebii forums so I figured I'd post a team as an intro. I'm not a fan of writing (or reading, for that matter) long rmts that just yap on and on about pointless stuff, so I'll try to keep this short and sweet and explain whatever.

    I posted this team on PO under the name "Tangelo". This is a Beta team.


    This team was built around HERABOSS because he's the coolest and nobody has used him to much success yet. After Heracross I just threw on a bunch of mons I liked and it ended up working pretty well. The original team had Xatu over Mew, but then Genesect happened (j/s guys, it's the gayest mon in the game). After that I just used the sets that fit my playstyle best: Choice. If you hit hard enough, resistances don't mean a thing. You simplify the game by keeping prediction at a minimum and basically just clicking the move you want and watching the KO's rack up. In the early stages of the team, almost all of the mons (all but 1) carried a choice item. Eventually it evolved into this, and it's pretty decent. Overall the team is more bulk based than speed based. True bulky offense anyone? And, if anyone cares, I peaked 1476 on Beta with this, so it's not too bad.

    That's basically it.

    Mew @ Choice Scarf *** MOUSEMON
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 104 Atk / 152 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Ice Beam
    - Flamethrower
    - Psyshock
    - Low Kick

    Easily the most versatile and cute poke in OU, Mew can run anything. Mew is usually the lead but it was the last one added. The team was relatively slow (mainly because for the first few weeks of this team's inception I was set on keeping it all bands/specs), so in the end I added this little guy. This set is mainly to surprise Genesect users (although Sash Gene is still annoying) and KO it turn one. This thing is nice for revenging a ton of things, namely +1 Outraging DNite, Terrakion, DD Gyarados, Landorus, non-Scarf Keldeo, Scizor, Gengar, etc.

    One thing a lot of people have questioned is why bother using a mixed scarf Mew. It's already weak enough as it is. The thing is, this is more of a utility mon than an offensive one. Even with less investment in either stat I still get the KO's I wanted to get. Low Kick nails so many of the common switch-ins to Mew, such as Tyranitar and Heatran. They are OHKO'd and 2HKO'd after SR, respectively. Psyshock nails Tentacruel and revenges various threats. Ice Beam deals with Dragons, Landorus(-I/T), and Gliscor, while Flamethrower kills Genesect and hurts Ferrothorn.

    Another benefit of this guy is it being complete Tyranitar bait. Getting a double switch into Heracross means a free kill with Close Combat. Before Mew I had a Xatu in this slot. It was alright vs Stall and stuff but it didn't really fit the theme of the team: hit hard. Mew doesn't exactly hit hard, but at least it hits.

    Heracross @ Choice Band *** BEETLEMON
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Night Slash
    - Stone Edge

    This right here is the scariest thing in Pokemon. Moxie CB Hera gets a kill basically every time it comes in once Gliscor is gone. 2HKOs Ferro and Skarm easily with CC. I mean, this monster has a chance to 2HKO Scizor with Megahorn. The majority of teams aren't prepared for something this powerful. Early game this thing comes in and just dominates the field. Something to note is that the meta is slowing down a lot from what it was. Lati@s and a lot of scarf pokes are in decline (**** you gene). If you don't have anything that can outspeed Hera, than it's pretty much an instalose. Stall without a Ghost or Gliscor have huge issues with this guy, and with the help of Metagross and MixNite, they lose as well.

    One thing you may be asking is, "Why use this over Terrakion?". One of the key factors of Heracross is that Hera actually has a decent set of resistances to come in on. Ground, fighting, grass, etc. Not to mention it isn't weak to any priority move. Terrakion's speed gives it a slight advantage over offensive teams, but those teams almost always have priority or a scarf mon, where Terrakion's speed isn't as important. Hera dominates stall and the majority of pokes on balance teams.

    Gastrodon @ Choice Specs *** SLUGMON
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 132 HP / 116 Def / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Earth Power
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    The best specs user that has dropped in usage quite a bit since the beginning of 5th gen, Gastrodon. Specs Gastrodon absolutely wrecks once it gets the Storm Drain boost. It's mainly because I can't build a team without something that doesn't mind taking Scalds and Thunder Waves. This thing is also my main rain counter. Thundurus w/o Grass Knot, Starmie, etc are all checked pretty well. The way I play Gastrodon is rarely switching due to it being hit by all hazards. Gastrodon is also the thing I go to for unboosted hits I don't know if anyone else can live. Gastrodon is also good vs most bulky water, putting them in kill range for Heracross.

    A change I've been considering is switching HP Grass to HP Fire or Recover. Ferrothorn isn't really a problem (infact it's switch in fodder for Hera), but HP Fire is always nice to have if Hera ever dies early. Recover is something that has a bit more of a use. It'd be easy to bluff a defensive set by using Recover after taking a few hits. It's also nice because hazards really stack on Gastro.

    Dragonite @ Life Orb *** DRAGONMON
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 112 Atk / 200 SpA / 196 Spe
    Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Dragonite has lost a lot of use since BW1, but IMO it's one of the greatest available mons in OU atm. The set of choice was MixNite. MixNite lures in most of Heracross' "checks" and KO's them. Multiscale is great vs people who set up too early without SR. It's also my secondary check to Volcarona and sun teams in general. Lots of people underestimate the power this thing packs. It's Draco Meteor may not be on par with Latios, but it sure as hell will KO stuff that doesn't resist it. And things that do resist it fall to Dragonites superb coverage moves.

    The biggest asset of DNite (for me) is the best priority in the game, ESpeed. Even without maxed Atk, ESpeed nails a lot of things for the kill. It's especially good late game after Hera has done it's job and basically brought everything into kill range for a swift ESpeed. It's really important for Keldeo and Tornadus-T.

    Metagross @ Leftovers *** METALMON
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit

    The first defensive pivot on the team: Metagross. It's still an AMAZING mon and I don't see what people don't like about it. What drove me to use Metagross was this thread. Putting Metagross behind basically everything is injustice. I guarantee that whoever did that either used Metagross early Gen 5, used it badly, lied, or didn't use it at all. Metagross mainly in this slot for stuff like like Tornadus and Zam. It's really important to keep alive if the opp has a Gengar. It's a great utility mon with good bulk. It's most important job, however, is coming in on Outrages / Dracos from Lati@s, DNite, etc. Unlike similar mons who do this (like other steels), Metagross is actually a threat and can hit for damage. It also sets up SR, so that's pretty nice, but the lack of EQ can be a pain sometimes.

    Probably obvious to most people, it seems like Tyranitar could do this job just as well. However Metagross has a few important things TTar doesn't. Firstly, it doesn't induce sandstorm. For a team full of mons weak to hazards and lacking a spinner, more residual damage from sand would be problematic. Next, already touched on earlier, is that Metagross tanks dragon hits. Unlike TTar, Metagross stops Gengar, and doesn't instalose vs Superpower Tornadus-T.

    Rotom-H @ Leftovers *** STOVEMON
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 168 SpD / 92 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Pain Split
    - Volt Switch
    - Overheat
    - Thunder Wave

    The last member of the team, also one of the 2 defensive pivots, is an amazing mon: SpD Rotom-H. This thing has so many jobs that without it my team couldn't function. Previously, I ran a Specs set that, although moderately powerful, wasn't that great due to the sr weakness and it needing to switch-in on a ton of threats. It also takes a lot of pressure off Metagross tanking hits from the likes of Tornadus(-T) and Gengar (Volt Switch is great vs SubDisable). Another thing is Thunder Wave. A team like this, which focuses on slow powerhouses, LOVES paralysis support.

    Using this over something like Heatran requires an explanation. Heatran, although having a nice set of resistances and no sr weakness, doesn't have a lot of tools Rotom has, like Volt Switch and Thunder Wave. Heatran also lacks 3 helpful things resistance wise: The ground immunity (all around helpful; spikes), an electric resist (not useless against rain), and no fighting weakness (**** you Superpower Tornadus-T!). That being said, I may try a SubToxic Tran set in this spot to lure in Jellicent and Toed for Heracross, or Sunny Day > Pain Split to deal with weather, Gyarados, and Keldeo better.

    Great mon who needs more love.

    Problem pokes can usually be played around, but they are RP Genesect lategame (Rotom-H covers this pretty well though, not to mention the majority don't even run Bug Buzz for some stupid reason) and sometimes DD Gyara variants give me trouble. Baton Pass in general is a pain in the ***, and well played Deo-D, well not really a threat, set up a ton of hazards. Specs Hydreigon is annoying because it can't be pursuited and EBelt / Lefties HP Ice Keldeo hurts pretty bad. If Gastrodon gets caught by a Toxic, SubCM Rachi sweeps me.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  2. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    JS, Scarf Azelf works way better than Scarf Mew. I literally have to go, like, now, so I'll give you a full rate tomorrow.

    Also, Gene was banned unless you're playing on PO.
  3. imoTangy

    imoTangy Member

    That's actually a really, really good idea. I'm going to start testing that when I get home tomorrow, thanks!

    And yes, it's for PO.
  4. TurboMechaElgyem

    TurboMechaElgyem Well-Known Member

    This is a nice team, very well-balanced. However, you need a rapid spinner, what with two of your pokemon being SR weak. Also, is it really a good idea to put life orb on a pokemon that works best at full hp? Finally, make Heracross Jolly. The extra speed could end up saving you.
  5. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    Hey, this is a very nice team!

    However, I do think that metagross is a little outclassed in its role. you say it stops things like torn-t and outraging dragons, but it doesn't really seem to be doing anything else but setting rocks, and taking repeated hits. In lieu, I recommend SpD rachi over it, as it also stops genesect cold, a big problem to your team. it'll also make you somewhat less keldeo weak, and allow you to cripple non sub variants.

    Jirachi @Leftovers
    - Serene Grace -
    252 hp/ 236 SpD/ 20 speed
    - Fire punch/Ice Punch
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave

    20 spe evs allow it to outpace mag, and 3hko it, while hp fire also 3hkoes. specs gene in sun cant ohko this with these evs either.

    also, as to the jolly comment, hera needs all the power it gets, to easily rack up those moxie boosts, and jolly doesnt outspeed anything significant.
  6. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Alright, so as promised here's your full rate.

    Okay, so I initially said Scarf Azelf is better than Scarf Mew, but now that I get a chance to fully look through your team, your Mew is doing a few things that Azelf simply can't, like take on Tyranitar with Low Kick. All the other Pokemon you mentioned it can take on comfortably though, so I'll post a set anyways.
    Azelf @ Choice Scarf
    Timid - Levitate
    252 Speed, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 HP
    -Psyshock / Psychic
    -Thunderbolt / Energy Ball
    -Hidden Power (Ice) / Shadow Ball
    -U-Turn / Explosion

    Azelf suffers from a similar problem as Mew; it's got too many damn options, so its movepool might take some tailoring to your team. There's literally over a dozen different moves you could fit in on any of his four slots, so whatever you feel works best for your team you can use. Also, it's worth noting that Azelf can run a Speed-neutral nature and still outpace Scarfed base 100s, but you lose the ability to revengekill things like Jolly Scarf Terrakion. Also, Mew is significantly bulkier than Azelf, with 100/100/100 compared to Azelf's 70/70/70.

    Heracross - Scarf me? Other than that, no problems here.

    Gastrodon - Nothing wrong here.

    Dragonite - Hmm. I can't help but wonder if Intimidate MixMence would serve you better.

    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Naive - Intimidate
    252 Speed, 64 Attack, 192 Sp. Atk
    -Draco Meteor
    -Fire Blast / Hydro Pump

    Metagross - As stated by The Commie, Metagross is pretty much outclassed in its defensive roles by Jirachi. I mean, Metagross is a great defensive pivot, but a lack of recovery and poor Sp. Def means that it'll be worn down quickly. TCR's set is fine, but I'd highly recommend carrying Wish. It'll save your *** more times than you can count.

    Rotom-H - If you do swap Meta for Jira, I suppose you'll need a physically defensive Pokemon here. If you don't mind another Ground weakness, physically defensive Heatran could work.

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Bold - Flash Fire
    252 HP, 252 Defence, 4 Speed
    -Stealth Rock
    -Lava Plume

    Heatran can also carry your Rocks so Jirachi can run Wish, which is nice.

    That's all for now.

  7. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    If this is on PS, don't count Torn-T and Genesect as they are Ubers.
  8. Ghosts of the Forums

    Ghosts of the Forums Who Ya Gonna Call?

    It's on po. Read the op, people.

    If you give heracross sleep talk, he can counter/check Breloom.
  9. imoTangy

    imoTangy Member

    The Azelf is a great suggestion that I'm going to get testing right now. I'll be using a set running U-Turn / Psyshock / HP Ice / Flamethrower, though, so I can just U-Turn out of Ttar or Tran and go into Hera or something. FT is so I can still deal with Scizor and Genesect and hits Ferro pretty hard.

    I want to have CB Hera's babies.

    I would use MixMence but it lacks ESpeed, which is really, really important. Another thing is Superpower, which is just better than EQ honestly.

    I'll try an SpD Rachi in that spot. Idk though because this makes Gengar a bigger problem and it doesn't have Pursuit for Lati@s. I'd much rather trap it than just tank the hits. Also no Bullet Punch (which has saved my *** A LOT). The main selling point is Wish, though. I think all the spinners are horrible so Wish would be really helpful. U-Turn / Wish / Iron Head / SR maybe?

    Rotom-H has been too amazing; I don't think I'll drop it ever.

    As I said above, most of the spinners atm are really bad. Dragonite's Multiscale isn't as necessary as you may think. It needs that LO to deal some frightening damage. Adamant Hera too strongth.

    Thanks for the rates so far!
  10. imoTangy

    imoTangy Member


    Still in the process of testing Azelf, but it's going pretty good. The lack of bulk is a shame but that speed is really helpful for stuff like Mence and Landorus. I tried SpD Rachi in that spot and it was pretty meh. I used the set posted by That Crazy Russian and one with Wish and it just didn't do great (probably because I can't use Rachi for my life). I'll be trying some variants of CM Rachi (CM+Wish and Superachi) in that spot.
  11. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    How does Salamence fare better than DNite in this case?
  12. imoTangy

    imoTangy Member

    Dragonite's main things over Mence are ESpeed (really important), special bulk, and Superpower (flat out better than EQ/Outrage).
  13. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Yeah, but how is Salamence better for his team than Dragonite?
  14. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    Lol, you are the worst rater i know.

    If you are that curious, Mixmence was probably suggested due to more utility and making better use of its ability. I can see how Dnite is more useful, because as stated, e-speed wrecks.
  15. Dreamy

    Dreamy Well-Known Member

    Hmm nice team, gives me some ideas for the future, I wonder too if Salamence would be better for this team.
  16. Ninja Dewott

    Ninja Dewott Ice Cold Fire


    I'd agree with you that most beetles are pretty good, but there's still a few things you could do to make this team better.

    Firstly, I'd change the item on the Beetle itself to a Choice Scarf. Choice Scarf is by far the best option on Heracross since it gives it the speed required to outspeed and KO numerous threats such as Lati@s, Terrakion, Salamence etc. In addition, Moxie gives it enough power anyway as, after a KO, you'll have the equivalent power of a Band.

    LO Dragonite is also not making the most of Dragonite. On this team, if you want to stick with Dnite, a Choice Band set is far superior, and it fits your playstyle well too. Otherwise, I'd go with Divine's suggestion of MixMence

    Also, although you say you like Metagross, there are far better options. A SDef Jirachi would be great for this team. It can provide Wish Support (Which is great with no spinner) and can still tank Dragon hits and lay SR as well as being a better counter to Tornadus-T who, I believe, is still loose on PO.

    Finally, once again, Mew really isn't being made the most of. It's worth keeping, but if you do, change it to a Phsyically Defensive Utility Mon. However, I would prefer to change it completely, to a Bulky Attacker Lando-T. Lando-T has great synergy with Jirachi (if you choose to make that change) and can not only hit hard with a massive Base 145 Attack, but can also use SR, if you wish, freeing up a moveslot on Jirachi. A CB set is also very viable indeed, if you like the sound of that.

    Anyway, I hope this all helps, even if I have made some substantial changes. If you like the sound of them, let me know and I'll post the sets!


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