The Big Four

[starterlover1]

Yes, I know this discussion has been going on, but it has been within other threads. I decided to put it in it's own thread because it is worthy of it and so people will notice it. That being said:

The new battle system has people worried that gengar, salamence, metagross, and tyranitar would become extremely powerful and cause an imbalance in the game. I have looked in the pokedex on the main site and I think that these are possible movesets-

Salamence: Crunch, Dragon Claw, Aerial Ace/Brick Break, EQ. This is based off of attacks that may be considered physical and would go well with Salamence's high attack stat.

Metagross: Meteor Mash, Ice/Thunderpunch, Psychic, EQ. Also centered around attack, Metagross's highest stat. Ice punch is more likely than thunderpunch since it covers ground types.

Tyranitar: Crunch, Rock Slide, Fire punch, EQ. Yet another physically based pokemon, this moveset will go well with it. Fire punch will help against steel types, and the first two moves get stab and base off of attack.

Gengar: Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb, T-Bolt, Psychic/Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball. This one is the special based of the four. I think it will keep shadow ball for stab and basing off of sp.atk, and t-bolt for its power. Giga Drain may be kept, but it may be replaced with sludge bomb for the same reason as SB. Psychic is just plain powerful.

There are the movesets I think are likely. As for counters, post your thoughts, and I myself suggest flygon, starmie, and milotic. Flygon can use stab EQ to take out T-tar and metagross. Without ice punch, flygon's crunch can take out gengar. Watch out for metagross's ice punch if EQ doesn't beat it. Dragon claw salamence. Starmie's high speed and sp atk. will help it beat these pokemon, and milotic has the defenses and Hp to survive. All it has to do is mirror coat gengar.

 

[Pure]

They are good, counters, but they must have good defenses to stay in battle should these big four be well-trained. However, to sweep Metagross, Tyranitar, Flygon will do the job.

Also, for Gengar, Sludge Bomb will be kept for STAB and the fact that it helps out that type of Gengar better than Giga Drain.

 

[The Missing Number]

I agree with this, actually. It is a HUGE disbalance. I think that some other pokemon will also be disbalanced, in fact, so many will be that it won't be a problem...I'm thinking beautifly for some reason.

 

[Pure]

But the consensus is that GameFreak will have to recalculate the base stats of each pokemon to make up for the imbalance.

 

[The Great Butler]

Will the stats change when you trade from GBA games, though? Somehow I doubt it, which would then leave GBA Pokémon as near useless. Even if they did, it would still mess up your training. No matter which way I look at it, I see a loss.

All it will do is make the metagame even more broken than it already is. I picture a not-so-far away future where just about all players have Mewtwo, Salamence and Gengar on their teams while the UUs that popped up once in a while to diversify the field vanish for good due to their utter uselessness.

The only Pokémon not affected that I can think of is Dusclops, because the only good damaging attacks it gets are Seismic Toss or Night Shade.

 

[starterlover1]

But the consensus is that GameFreak will have to recalculate the base stats of each pokemon to make up for the imbalance.

This is true, but what if they don't? Besides, if the stats don't change as you trade your pokemon between 3rd and 4th gen games, you could just teach these pokemon the moves in RSE and trade them to DP;munchlax;

 

[Conflagration]

Lol Gengar won't be that powerful, it's base stats add up to only 500. What makes Gengar so much different than Alakazam? Alakazam has higher speed and higher Sp.Atk. Alakazam can whup Gengar's butt with 1 or 2 Psychics.

The others can easily be beaten as well. Sneasel/Weavile can OHKO Salamence with Ice Punch. Primeape can OHKO Tyranitar with CrossChop or Regirock can OHKO it with Superpower.

And Dragonite should be in the Big Four instead of Gengar. Since Dragon Claw and Outrage will become physical Dragonite's base 134 attack will pwn all. Don't say it has low speed because Tyranitar has lower speed and everyone includes Tyranitar in the Big Four so yeah.

 

[Infamous]

Milotic can handle mence on its own,

Swampert counters both Tar and metagross

also

WTF?? Icebeam on sneasel?

Sneasel's special attack sucks ***

its more of a physicl sweeper

 

[Conflagration]

Milotic can handle mence on its own,

Swampert counters both Tar and metagross

also

WTF?? Icebeam on sneasel?

Sneasel's special attack sucks ***

its more of a physicl sweeper

Who said Ice Beam?

 

[42]

Well, I hate those already, and they can go to heck. This makes some Pokemon stronger.

Earthquake will now be Special Atk!

And this helps balance for most Pokemon. Sneasel (and probably Weavile) have low Sp. Atk but high Atk. Now moves like Shadow Claw and Beat Up will be Physcical. That helps them be used more.

Snorelax, an already over used uber, now becomes less of an overused Pokemon.

Alakazam changes aswell.

Most Pokemon (Lanturn, Quagsire, Togepi) aren't going to be very affected by this. Tri Attack will be special.

 

[Conflagration]

Earthquake will now be Special Atk!

You can't be sure of that. They will examine every move and decide whether or not it should be special or physical, nobody said it's gonna be based on whether or not it makes direct contact with the pokemon.

 

[loonatic]

Well, I hate those already, and they can go to heck. This makes some Pokemon stronger.

Earthquake will now be Special Atk!

And this helps balance for most Pokemon. Sneasel (and probably Weavile) have low Sp. Atk but high Atk. Now moves like Shadow Claw and Beat Up will be Physcical. That helps them be used more.

Snorelax, an already over used uber, now becomes less of an overused Pokemon.

Alakazam changes aswell.

Most Pokemon (Lanturn, Quagsire, Togepi) aren't going to be very affected by this. Tri Attack will be special.

wouldnt earthquake still be a physical move? i think it will be...

 

[42]

wouldnt earthquake still be a physical move? i think it will be...

Well, I just thought it would be. How the freak do Pokemon other than Snorelax and Groudon summon Earthquakes!

 

[numel master]

earthquake should be a physical move. In the anime the pokemon jumps up and hits the ground to make an earthquake.

 

[lime_green_hero]

Earthquake will remain physical. It is summoned by pounding or jumping on the ground.

 

[Pure]

Lol Gengar won't be that powerful, it's base stats add up to only 500. What makes Gengar so much different than Alakazam? Alakazam has higher speed and higher Sp.Atk. Alakazam can whup Gengar's butt with 1 or 2 Psychics.

The others can easily be beaten as well. Sneasel/Weavile can OHKO Salamence with Ice Punch. Primeape can OHKO Tyranitar with CrossChop or Regirock can OHKO it with Superpower.

And Dragonite should be in the Big Four instead of Gengar. Since Dragon Claw and Outrage will become physical Dragonite's base 134 attack will pwn all. Don't say it has low speed because Tyranitar has lower speed and everyone includes Tyranitar in the Big Four so yeah.

Alakazam loses it's ability to be an elemental puncher, so it's strengths against Gengar are overshadowed by the losses it incurred.

 

[Conflagration]

It doesn't need elemental punches against Gengar. 1 or 2 Psychics will take care of it. What the heck makes Gengar so much Powerful than other pokemon? There are tons of other pokemon that have high sp.atk and high speed that can use special attacks. What makes it so different than say... a Starmie? Starmie uses special attacks and it has a high sp.atk stat and it has high speed.

Still no one has given any reason why Gengar would be soooo much powerful than Alakazam, Starmie, Etc. All that's happened is it can now actually do some damage.

 

[Pure]

Well, Starmie was suggested as a counter to these Big Four. And thinking about it, Alakazam could sweep Gengar, but nobody else.

You do make a good point.

 

[Conflagration]

If there's a big four it would be Dragonite/Tyranitar/Metagross/Salamence.

Dragonite and Tyranitar are basically the same now since Dragon Claw and other dragon attacks will now be physical.

 

[starterlover1]

Lol Gengar won't be that powerful, it's base stats add up to only 500. What makes Gengar so much different than Alakazam? Alakazam has higher speed and higher Sp.Atk. Alakazam can whup Gengar's butt with 1 or 2 Psychics.

The others can easily be beaten as well. Sneasel/Weavile can OHKO Salamence with Ice Punch. Primeape can OHKO Tyranitar with CrossChop or Regirock can OHKO it with Superpower.

And Dragonite should be in the Big Four instead of Gengar. Since Dragon Claw and Outrage will become physical Dragonite's base 134 attack will pwn all. Don't say it has low speed because Tyranitar has lower speed and everyone includes Tyranitar in the Big Four so yeah.

True, but Alakazam has lost it's punches, while gengar gains sp attack based shadow ball and sludge bomb. Zam may be able to take out gengar, but metagross and tyranitar could smear Zam across the field with ease. As for dragonite being in the Big Four, I think Milotic outspeeds it by one point, allowing for critical damage with ice beam. Milotic actually outspeeds all of the pokemon in the big four except for salamence and gengar. The reason I thought of gengar in the big four is that is is much faster than dragonite, and has the special atk to do massive damage, while Dragonite is outsped by several pokemon. Also, dragonite is exposed to many water types as they carry ice attacks. Gengar is weak to dark, ghost and psychic types, which are much less common. Shadow Ball will be seen less on several pokemon, and there are few dark type moves. Gengar also has the speed to shadow ball a psychic, so that is why I choose it as an honorary member of the Big Four.;munchlax;