1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

The BW2 In-Game Tier thread!

Discussion in '5th Gen In-Game RMT' started by Tsumiki, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. Tsumiki

    Tsumiki Tsun Tsun~

    •The thread will use Seven Tiers (Top, High, Upper-Mid, Middle, Lower-Mid, Low, Bottom)

    •Only the last Pokemon in each evolution chain is eligible for rating.

    •Only Pokemon found within the main game before the credits are eligible for rating.

    •Each Tiering must be approved by three other posters.

    •One of these posters must be a ceritified poster. As of now, the certified Posters are FoldingScreen, zhanton, Grumpy Snorlax, Aurawarrior8. New certified posters can only be nominated by already ceritified posters, although anyone is eligible to approve of nominations.

    •The tiering post must follow the format used by the example in the OP. Any tiering that fails to do so will not be considered as a tiering but rather simple opinion/research sharing

    •The OP will contain a list of Pokemon at their earliest available location and list of TMs found within the main game. I need someone else to do the research though, unless you want to wait a couple of weeks or so =\

    •Hidden Hollow/Dream World Ability Pokemon are not eligable for tiering due to the sheer randomness factor. Exceptions to this are Mincinno, Braviary and Mandibuzz, the reason being that they are found within the main story with relatively little difficulty (the plot directs you to Mincinno iirc)

    •Legendaries found within the main game are eligible for rating. Event-Only legendaries are ineligable (subject to change)

    •This thread is independent from Smogon's tiering and as such, refrain from using their tiering as source material for your own arguments. If you do, at least have the decency to rephrase it.

    Model Tiering Post
    [​IMG]

    Sigilyph - Upper-Mid Tier
    Availability - Mid-Game (Desert Resort)
    Notable Moves - Psybeam, Air Cutter, Psychic, Air Slash, Shadow Ball, Heat Wave, Ice Beam, Reflect, Light Screen
    Stats - Good SpA and Above-Average Spe. Painfully average on other stats.

    Sigilyph is a mixed bag. On one hand, it has one of amongst the wider movepools in the game (look at it's notable moves) and has the right stats to use them. *It also has one of the best abilities in the game with Magic Guard, which gives it immunity from the much too common Poison Status ailment. It's wide movepool lets it adapt to whatever your team needs. Need something to help with Iris? Give it Ice Beam. Lacking some Firepower? Slap Heat Wave on it. This means that Sigilyph will never feel redundant on your team and will always be doing something to support you.

    On the other, it shines against none of the main battles in the plot save E4 Marshall and has trouble with the Steel types that Team Plasma love to carry with them unless you invest in Heat Wave. It's somewhat middling defenses mean that it won't be taking too many hits in the endgame. Couple that with the fact that it's pretty much with it's STABs until the last third of the game, and you'll see it's not all sunshine and rainbows for Sigilyph

    Summary

    +Has one of the best Movepools in the game
    +Magic Guard
    -Barely sees use in major battles as a main fighter
    -Middling defenses spell trouble for it endgame
    -Relies on it's STAB for a good portion of the game
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  2. koosbane

    koosbane master breeder

    I think 5 tiers is plenty, we can work with that.

    descriptions in op couldn't hurt.

    small built in serebii sprites could work to cut down on size and time.

    Request system sounds good but how do you keep newbs from just posting anyway.

    the approving method sounds fine. you could do the 1st and then someone 2nds it. then have the same people approved to give requests vote? Maybe.

    I would love to be involved as much as I can.
     
  3. Zhanton

    Zhanton le quant-à-soi

    I followed the BW2 ingame tiering process on Smogon (until the thread there was closed due to the moderator being busy) and one problem they encountered was that their Mid tier was just too large and Pokemon that weren't good enough to be High were there, along with those that were slightly better than Low, so it was a bit uneven. So yeah, honestly especially given the size of the dex I think Upper-mid and Lower-mid would work well.

    Definitely think descriptions are necessary, as are sprites because they make everything so much nicer. And would they really tip you over the character limit? Any clue what the character limit is? Because you can always make a few posts immediately after the OP and then (soft) delete them, and if you ever need to use them you can just ask a mod to undelete them.

    And the approving method sounds fine.

    I'm not 100% sold on the request system tbh. imo if someone asks for help, anybody should be allowed to offer help, and it's up to the requestee to decide whether or not the claim holds weight.
     
  4. Aurath8

    Aurath8 Well-Known Member

    I agree with Zanton: there's about 400 fully evolved pokemon, so 7 tiers would be around 60 per tier. Seems about right.

    I'm going with yes. It does vastly increase the amount of work that needs to be done, so we might need to organise a collaboration.

    Hmm, I'd go with smaller sprites like these: ;306;;245;;392; etc. I don't think most computers(read: my computer) can handle all those animated sprites at once.

    Again, I agree with zhanton. If someone gives bad advice, a more experienced rater can just butt in and correct them.

    'I approve of FoldingScreen using this method for tiering the In-game tiers. (Aurawarrior8) [1/2]'

    I really like this idea since 2 (or 3 including whoever adds it to the OP) opinions should improve the quality of the overall product.
     
  5. Tsumiki

    Tsumiki Tsun Tsun~

    We're only tiering Pokemon within the BW2 Univan Dex, so I doubt 400 evolved 'mon will end up being tiered. zhanton's argument pro high/low mid does sound pretty legit.

    It seems everyone agrees with Sprites / Descriptions atm. Also, Aura, would using Static sprites affect computers (yours) at all?

    Really, I don't think I need to be one of the two approvers. Really, IGRMT has enough talented people that it won't be neccessary.

    A collab is something else I was considering. I dunno, maybe make an alt account dedicated to the tiering and give the password to a select few? I have no idea what SPPf's policy on alt accounts is, so I'll have to take a look.
     
  6. Aurath8

    Aurath8 Well-Known Member

    Well there's only one way to find out. Well actually there's several but yeah, my computer should be able to handle static sprites.

    I'm pretty sure it's "No alt accounts or die in the fires of Valhalla" or something along those lines.

    EDIT:
    Well that's what the rules state, so I think alt accounts are out of the question unless we get some divine intervention from the mods.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  7. Dragoniteftw

    Dragoniteftw SWAGONITE

    smogon one is dead so this will be really helpful.

    - short descriptions for sure, its always useful to see why something has been tiered without searching through 50 posts for OP.
    - sprits not needed but would be nice if you have the time.
     
  8. General Nonsense

    General Nonsense Star Glider

    How will the tier that each pokemon will be placed in be determined?
     
  9. Dragoniteftw

    Dragoniteftw SWAGONITE

    probably on in-game factors, based on efficient play throughs

    - How early you can get the poke
    - How useful it is against the gyms/trainers/E4

    obviously the earlier and useful the pokemon is the higher tier. But a pokemon such as Deino would be useful against gyms/E4 but be in a low tier because its not obtainable for a vast majority of the game.
     
  10. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Can we also add a post-game in-game tier too? For the post-Elite Four and Banjirou.
     
  11. [GS]

    [GS] Staring at my phone

    Great idea Steph! I like the way things are laid out, so (y).

    5 tiers should be plenty, didn't we use 5 for Subway tiers anyway? And that's every pkmn.

    On the idea of descriptions, I still say no. It's searchable so they can find it if they really need it. If it were up to me, I'd say once its on the board, it's no longer up for tier discussion until the project is complete.

    I'm down with the sprites, animated icons would work as well tho.


    You're giving the requestee WAY too much credit. I think a chosen group of certified people would be a better way to go, that way you always know the info is legit. Besides, the certs can always argue/discuss amongst themselves, so that you still get an unbiased decision. As for choosing them, Steph would form a panel of 3 or 4 users who would nominate and ultimately appoint however many certs you think you want.

    I agree with the tier voting method, although I would suggest adding a 3rd approval by a cert, especially since the whole community will be participating. I think you get what I'm saying here /:
     
  12. Zhanton

    Zhanton le quant-à-soi

    Well these tiers are more for telling people which Pokemon are best for the story mode, ie defeating the gyms and elite four. Post game is a bit harder to tier imo since you have the National Dex, can Pokeshift, have swarms, etc so practically every Pokemon would have to be tiered, right? That just seems like more work than it's worth especially since there probably isn't much to do outside the Battle Subway or PWT post-game.
     
  13. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    You don't have to do that. Just only factor in pre-game pokemon for post-game too.

    ----------

    Because I am having a tough time beating it and my team is all in their upper 60s.
     
  14. Zhanton

    Zhanton le quant-à-soi

    Well considering the fact that we're probably not going to put heaps of Pokemon in Top or Bottom (only the absolute best of the best or worst of the worst) we'll end up with three huge tiers and especially in the case of Mid there will end up Pokemon that are much better than others, but aren't good enough for High. Check out the smogon BW2 ingame tier thread because you can see how their mid tier was looking quite all over the place with it ending up the 'default' tier, really. Breaking it up into two can do no harm, and plus it's far easier to merge upper and lower mid later on if the two aren't needed than to split the mid tier later on.

    And fair point re: descriptions, and having three approvals sounds good as well.

    Mmmm yeah that makes sense but I think you're exaggerating just a tad on giving the requestee too much credit. It's not that much to ask of them to use their judgment and anyway as Aurawarrior said if someone gives bad advice, a more experienced rater can correct them. If the requestee doesn't use their judgment or isn't patient enough to wait for more than one response, then in the end it's their fault, no?

    What do you mean by beating 'it'? Beating Banjirou? The second round Elite Four?
     
  15. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Beating post-game.
     
  16. Tsumiki

    Tsumiki Tsun Tsun~

    ^The only real shift in tiers would be Hydreigon moving from bottom to high/top. Not worth it imo.

    I'll leave the discussion considering descriptions and requesting open for a while longer as we seem to have conflicting opinions. Agree with having certs adding a third approval, sounds decent.

    Just to add my two cents on the subject. How about adding a short Pros/Cons list for each Pokemon. Just a short lis that simplifies the tiering of each Pokemon. Note that this will not replace actual rates, and are merely used for the OP
     
  17. Zhanton

    Zhanton le quant-à-soi

    ^ Regarding descriptions and whatnot in the OP, how about this example format:

    HIGH

    [​IMG]
    Lillipup
    Availability - Early
    Movepool - Good
    Stats - Good
    Details - (link to post where its tiering was discussed)

    repeat for the other Pokemon in High


    If we can decide on those 'indicators' (eg what constitutes as early, mid-game, late? What can be used to describe a movepool - poor, average, good, fabulous? etc) that might work well.

    Just putting it out there.
     
  18. Aurath8

    Aurath8 Well-Known Member

    ^If we get really specific as to what each of those words constitute to, then that could work really well and helps save space in the OP too.

    As for descriptions, I like the pros and cons idea as it gets the info down succinctly and also keeps entries from being too long. For example:

    Pros:
    -Excellent in the mid-game thanks to its relatively high attack and speed.
    -Wide movepool increasing as the game goes on.

    Cons:
    -Towards the end of the game, it runs out of steam as other pokemon evolve and outpower it.
    - It's low defences become more apparent as well.

    As you can see, how good a pokemon is can be fairly complex. It exposes things we'll just be unable to tell people otherwise. Beheeyem is an alright pokemon, but it's just outclassed in almost every way by Reuniclus. But people reading it won't know without descriptions.
     
  19. Aura Sensei™

    Aura Sensei™ User Title

    Five should be fine.

    Descriptions aren't needed too much. If somebody asks , they can be answered.

    Something like this is fine. ;001;

    Frequent raters , but people who are giving off good advice.

    Approving a tiering
    imo each tiering should require one or two people to 'approve' of it to ensure that it has some sort of logical basis. It'd be a rather simple one-lined sentece
    'I approve of Bidoof being tiered SuperSpecialSexy (FoldingScreen) [1/2]
    Something like that anyway. A tiering is eligable to be added to the OP after it gets two approvals. Thoughts on this system?

    That's about everything I have to ask you guys. If there's anything else you want to ask about the thread, hit me up with a VM! Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]

    I think it should be fine , as long as they possibly give an explanation
     
  20. Zhanton

    Zhanton le quant-à-soi

    Yeah, this is true, and we can incorporate things like movepool/stats/availability as well which would make the method I suggested redundant. Personally I think the pros and cons method would work pretty well as it provides information quickly and if someone wants to learn more, they can just do a search for the Pokemon in question.

    Also just putting it out there but iirc there's an image limit in posts of 111 if memory serves, so we're probably going to have to use two posts for the tiers anyway, whether we use sprites or those little irritating bouncing-up-and-down smilies.
     

Share This Page