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The case of George Zimmerman and deadly "stand your ground."

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by DiamondClass, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. DiamondClass

    DiamondClass Banned

    George Zimmerman, a neighborhood crime watch volunteer of Florida has become infamous name in the news recently because he shot a 17 year old black male, Trayvon Martin. Prior to the media getting on this case the local police determined that Zimmerman was standing his ground because he was attacked by Martin and not being able to defend himself any other way he had no other choice but to shoot the teenager. Even now the details are sketchy and it seems the case divided into two camps. First are those who support "stand your ground" and gun ownership rights, and the other siding with a civil justice activist who want Zimmerman to be held accountable for Martin's death. There are additional dimensions to this case such as possible hate crime. Did Zimmerman follow and shoot Trayvon Martin because of his race? Zimmerman himself is of Hispanic origin and has black members in his family. Some have speculated that he may have been paranoid and felt anyone suspicious in the neighborhood were possible criminals. What are your views on the case in light of what has been revealed so far?

    Source http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...bably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  2. catzeye

    catzeye Writer's Block

    I understand that a person has a right to protect themselves if they are being attacked.

    However George Zimmerman was CHASING Trayvon Martin. On the recorded tapes of the 911 call Zimmerman is heard to say "I'm following him now" with the dispatcher responding "Sir, you don't need to do that."

    I'm not going to touch the race issue with this just yet because regardless of race, the fact is an innocent kid got murdered.
     
  3. YaDunGoofed

    YaDunGoofed #TYBG

    I agree with this entirely.
    However, I do feel that this was a case of hate crime. At the end of the tape he says "F*** [inaudible]."
    This was around my area, and I feel bad that this kid had his life ended because a pointless "Neighborhood watchdog".
     
  4. catzeye

    catzeye Writer's Block

    I agree that it was a hate crime. There are reports of Zimmerman calling 911 frequently about "black males"

    The only reason why I said I wasn't going to the race aspect of this was because I feel that regardless of the boy's race that this is a tragedy. Zimmerman needs to be arrested.
     
  5. DiamondClass

    DiamondClass Banned

    From what i heard, i think it went something like this.

    - Tayvor was walking in the area and looking, it was a gated community

    - George who was on crime watch patrol saw Tayvor and believed he looked suspicious, so he tried to follow him

    - Tayvor noticed he was being followed and tried to scare George away

    - George called 9/11 saying that Tayvor looked like we was on drugs, and seemed like he wanted to apprehend Tayvor until the cops arrived

    - Tayvor and George got into a scuffle. One side says that George was screaming for help, the other side says that it was Tayvor. Some witnessed have said that Tayvor was on top of George. The teenage was an athlete, while George appears to be short and pudgy. Possibly this played a part into Zimmerman taking out his gun for self defense.

    - Having being injured George felt that he had now to resort to using a gun and fired at Tayvor
     
  6. Pkmn Breeder Jack

    Pkmn Breeder Jack Static owns you.

    I'm just thoroughly annoyed that proper procedure wasn't used after a freaking SHOOTING and Zimmerman got away without tests, questioning, etc. Seems like a law enforcement problem too.
     
  7. catzeye

    catzeye Writer's Block

    We also have to remember the fact that Trayvon was visiting his father who LIVED in the community.

    Yes George Zimmerman was hurt in the scuffle but he initiated the conflict by grabbing Trayvon and then pushing him to the ground.
     
  8. Spookz

    Spookz Lumos

    Right? No drug tests, nothing. Zimmerman mentioned on the phone that it looked like Trayvon was on drugs, for all we know Zimmerman might have been on drugs. I don't think that's likely, it seems he's just plain unbalanced, but it's outrageous that he wasn't tested.

    Also, I love the whole thing about Trayvon looking sketchy because he's wearing a sweatshirt with the hood up. Don't most teenagers wear hoodies? Does that make all teens suspicious? Also, it was raining, anyone would have put their hood up.
     
  9. Pkmn Breeder Jack

    Pkmn Breeder Jack Static owns you.

    Exactly. The audio of his 911 call is full of him being told to stop pursuit and ignoring the advice. There's even a soundbite of him saying something like "****ing coons," so he sounds racist even then.
     
  10. Moneyy

    Moneyy INACTIVE

    There really is no way to justify the killing because the shooter cannot kill someone in self-defense if he is following them and then instigating the fight.
     
  11. catzeye

    catzeye Writer's Block

  12. Malanu

    Malanu Est sularus oth mith

    A crime perpetrated by a minority against a minority. I don't think it was a hate crime, I think it was a crime of stupidity. I didn't hear the 911 cal myself but my wife told me Zimmerman's call included him announcing the child was reaching in his pocket before shooting. Now in defense of Zimmerman why was the victim wearing a pull over hoody with the hood up at night in Florida?

    Not to be a racist, but in Florida, lots of crimes ARE committed by young black & Hispanic males with exactly the appearance Trayvon was presenting. Zimmerman wanted to be a hero, instead he shot and killed an innocent boy. It's tragic no doubt, but was it wrong to profile the exact look of many teen gang members? This campaign against Zimmerman is linch mob mentality at it's finest. Personally I would understand if Trayvon's family quietly took Mr Zimmerman out back and shot him, but the media blitz of this crime is repugnant.
     
  13. blaze boy

    blaze boy Aka SamuraiDon

    You know what teens are like. They like to dress in a particular style in order to fit in with the crowds, in this case however it didn't help the boy.
     
  14. Malanu

    Malanu Est sularus oth mith

    No, no it didn't.
     
  15. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    Repugnant? How so? Firstly, I think if it is true that Zimmerman has direct recordings/witnesses of hostility towards blacks, it can be a hate crime. Especially if he had no real reason to go after the kid.

    And the media frenzy is pretty much justified. Innocent black males being shot by anyone (including their own brethren) is a big but silent issue in America. Their rate of dying through murder is ridiculously higher than other races. An event that gets little to no investigation is probably the reason why it's getting big in the first place.

    Are you assuming that's why he dressed that way?
     
  16. Malanu

    Malanu Est sularus oth mith

    I don't know. Maybe its a matter of scale to me. But after the rabble rousing of the Kony story one Hispanic shooting one African American just doesn't make me see a bad man. Just a stupid one. As for my take, Paranoid with hero dreams. Did he shoot him cause of his race? Maybe. Did he do it because of his apparent profile? Maybe. Dress the part of a hoodlum, you will draw the suspicion of people... Especially those who want to "Make a difference". I'm not trying to shift the blame off the shooter, he fired prematurely period.
     
  17. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    "Dress the part of a hoodlum, you will draw the suspicion of people... "

    So he was walking while black. I'll be sure to take note of that next time. <_<
     
  18. Malanu

    Malanu Est sularus oth mith

    Now did I mention his skin color? No sir. Someone wearing a hoody with the hood up (Outside of bad weather) would trigger my "What the..."sensors, I don't care the color of the individuals skin! When I dress in my Wool overcoat & dark hoody (the pic is somewhere in the picture thread!) my wife says I look like the Uni-bomber, you think I don't draw attention for walkin' while white like that?
     
  19. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    Wearing a hoody makes someone suspicious? Especially if they're physically smaller than you? I don't buy that.
     
  20. Malanu

    Malanu Est sularus oth mith

    Does a person have to be big to wield a gun or a knife? No sir. If the weather is nice Why wear a hood that can cover your appearance. I Ask out of years of security detail work. To many people judge a threat by the size of a man (forgetting that women have made some of the best killers in history). I'd wonder about an old man wearing the same outfit, especially if it weren't weathered. If you dress the part of an unscrupulous person you are going to get that kind of attention.
     

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