The case of George Zimmerman and deadly "stand your ground."

[Pkmn Breeder Jack]

Does a person have to be big to wield a gun or a knife? No sir. If the weather is nice Why wear a hood that can cover your appearance. I Ask out of years of security detail work. To many people judge a threat by the size of a man (forgetting that women have made some of the best killers in history). I'd wonder about an old man wearing the same outfit, especially if it weren't weathered. If you dress the part of an unscrupulous person you are going to get that kind of attention.

While I agree with this, Zimmerman still followed the kid after the authorities told him to stand down, and then went and actually approached the kid with a firearm. That's crossing a line.

 

[Malanu]

I haven't excused him of being stupid. He will deserve to be punished for his actions. I hope he is haunted by his actions so to never be so stupid again.

 

[Pesky Persian]

A crime perpetrated by a minority against a minority. I don't think it was a hate crime, I think it was a crime of stupidity. I didn't hear the 911 cal myself but my wife told me Zimmerman's call included him announcing the child was reaching in his pocket before shooting. Now in defense of Zimmerman why was the victim wearing a pull over hoody with the hood up at night in Florida?

Not to be a racist, but in Florida, lots of crimes ARE committed by young black & Hispanic males with exactly the appearance Trayvon was presenting. Zimmerman wanted to be a hero, instead he shot and killed an innocent boy. It's tragic no doubt, but was it wrong to profile the exact look of many teen gang members? This campaign against Zimmerman is linch mob mentality at it's finest. Personally I would understand if Trayvon's family quietly took Mr Zimmerman out back and shot him, but the media blitz of this crime is repugnant.

You do realize that even in Florida, it gets chilly, right? Especially for people who have been residents there for a long time and aren't as acclimated to colder temperatures. Plus, it was raining so it's very likely and not at all unusual that the kid was wearing it to protect himself against the elements, not because he was up to something.

Either way, you can't just follow around and shoot any person who looks "suspicious" for being a minority and wearing a hooded sweatshirt. Zimmerman deliberately disobeyed police orders when he decided to keep following Trayvon. And then he murdered the poor kid because he had some crazy idea in his head that the kid was up to something. Whether or not the teen was on drugs probably isn't known yet (I'm sure with a possible homicide case, there's going to be an autopsy and toxicology takes weeks to come back), but from what I've been reading, the likelihood of Trayvon being on drugs seems pretty unlikely to me. Sounds more to me like a case of a redneck trying too hard to "keep his neighborhood safe" and instead, making it a dangerous place for the residents.

 

[Malanu]

As I said Pesky, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of stupidity, and desire to play hero! He deserves to be punished for his crimes. Treyvon's only crime (as far as I know) is looking suspicious, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm out of the loop though... can Hispanics be rednecks too? I'm admittedly biased by Foxworthy, Larry the cable guy, Engvall & White.

 

[Jb]

I wear hats and hoods all the time.

Probably should just shoot me too.

 

[Pesky Persian]

As I said Pesky, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of stupidity, and desire to play hero! He deserves to be punished for his crimes. Treyvon's only crime (as far as I know) is looking suspicious, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm out of the loop though... can Hispanics be rednecks too? I'm admittedly biased by Foxworthy, Larry the cable guy, Engvall & White.

I'd say "redneck" in this case is more of a mindset than anything else.

 

[Malanu]

Don't tempt, remember MY training and background Jb

I keep saying I don't excuse the idiot but only that his intent may not be from Pure malice.

I'd say "redneck" in this case is more of a mindset than anything else.

Ayite (I have no idea how to spell what Larry uses as Yes...)

 

[Jb]

Ayite (I have no idea how to spell what Larry uses as Yes...)

"Ig ht"

 

[Spookz]

A crime perpetrated by a minority against a minority. I don't think it was a hate crime, I think it was a crime of stupidity.

Just because someone is a minority doesn't mean they can't commit a hate crime. I'm not saying it was or wasn't, but I see and hear racist/hateful remarks from minorities about minorities all the time. White people aren't the only ones guilty of racism or hate crimes, it goes many different ways.

But I agree, no matter how you look at it, stupidity was definitely a huge player here.

Ayite (I have no idea how to spell what Larry uses as Yes...)

For reference, it's "a'ight". It's just the word "alright" without the L and R.

 

[DiamondClass]

The 17 year old guy was shot because he got into a fight with Zimmerman. And from the sound of the 9/11 call, he thought he was a criminal because he began to run away so Zimmerman tried to capture him.

 

[Murton]

I keep saying I don't excuse the idiot but only that his intent may not be from Pure malice.

I agree with this. From what I've read in this thread Zimmerman seems like a racist idiot to me, but I think it's likely he was trying to protect his neighborhood. Still should get locked up for it though, it's entirely Zimmerman's fault.

 

[GhostAnime]

Treyvon's only crime (as far as I know) is looking suspicious,

She was wearing a skirt! She had it coming!

Okay. Anything else?

 

[Pkmn Breeder Jack]

Okay. Anything else?

I was thinking the same thing. It isn't a crime to wear a hood and be black just as it isn't a crime to be an attractive woman and wear attractive clothing. Just because a victim's dress/appearance encouraged the assailant doesn't mean they were at fault.

 

[catzeye]

Just because someone is a minority doesn't mean they can't commit a hate crime. I'm not saying it was or wasn't, but I see and hear racist/hateful remarks from minorities about minorities all the time. White people aren't the only ones guilty of racism or hate crimes, it goes many different ways.

I definitely agree with this! You would think that minorities would be civil towards each other but actually they can be quite cruel. I know many Hispanics who dislike blacks and have alliances with the KKK. I've also seen a number of blacks who absolutely despise Hispanics.

I agree with this. From what I've read in this thread Zimmerman seems like a racist idiot to me, but I think it's likely he was trying to protect his neighborhood. Still should get locked up for it though, it's entirely Zimmerman's fault.

Yes. The race issue adds more fuel to the fire. However I think the main thing everyone should focus on is that an innocent boy got killed because some dumba** wanted to play Cop and Robbers instead of just notifying the police of suspicious behavior like he's supposed to.

 

[Kaiserin]

Yes. The race issue adds more fuel to the fire. However I think the main thing everyone should focus on is that an innocent boy got killed because some dumba** wanted to play Cop and Robbers instead of just notifying the police of suspicious behavior like he's supposed to.

I disagree, because I absolutely believe he would not have been killed if he were white. Ergo, we would not be having this discussion at all if he were white.

But he wasn't, and he got murdered. So no, I don't think it's the murder itself that's the main thing, because it was specifically triggered by racism. And, hell, the lack of proper investigation in the aftermath was probably equally a result of racism -- you know if the shooter had been black and the victim had been white, there'd have been much more effort put into bringing him to justice.

EDIT:

I agree with this. From what I've read in this thread Zimmerman seems like a racist idiot to me, but I think it's likely he was trying to protect his neighborhood. Still should get locked up for it though, it's entirely Zimmerman's fault.

Actually, he frequently prowled the neighborhoods and dialed 911 a lot, most of which were all false alarms. Even if, in his mind, he was trying to protect the area as some kind of vigilante, that absolutely doesn't mean he was one.

This would not have the same national attention that it does if it wasn't such a painfully clear case of racial profiling, I guarantee you. None of you would even give a **** if it weren't in national headlines, either.

 

[Ipwnyou]

Now did I mention his skin color? No sir. Someone wearing a hoody with the hood up (Outside of bad weather) would trigger my "What the..."sensors, I don't care the color of the individuals skin! When I dress in my Wool overcoat & dark hoody (the pic is somewhere in the picture thread!) my wife says I look like the Uni-bomber, you think I don't draw attention for walkin' while white like that?

It's funny, because even that flimsy excuse for having any "suspicion" doesn't work here.

It was raining when the murder happened.

http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/03/fl...lling-trayvon-martin-shoddy-policework-might/

tailing a “suspicious person” walking through the rain in his neighborhood.

 

[Psychic]

The 17 year old guy was shot because he got into a fight with Zimmerman. And from the sound of the 9/11 call, he thought he was a criminal because he began to run away so Zimmerman tried to capture him.

No, Martin and Zimmerman didn't get into a fight. Zimmerman was watching and following the 17-year-old, which weirded the kid out - wouldn't you feel nervous if some guy kept staring at you?

Also, if you listen to Martin's girlfriend explaining the last call she had with him, she explained that he put his hood down because some guy was watching him. Zimmerman followed this kid half his size who just went out to buy candy, even when police told him to stop following him, and when Martin proved no threat to him, Zimmerman responded by pushing him to the ground and shooting him. In the 911 call, he says "----ing coons" and "they always get away." This was a man looking for trouble.

Toxicology reports have been done, and Martin was clean - they did not test Zimmerman. The local police simply assumed the kid had it coming. I agree that this might not have happened had Martin not been black.

The point is that Zimmerman used excessive force based solely on suspicions to kill an innocent person. Martin did not deserve to die.

~Psychic

 

[Murton]

Actually, he frequently prowled the neighborhoods and dialed 911 a lot, most of which were all false alarms. Even if, in his mind, he was trying to protect the area as some kind of vigilante, that absolutely doesn't mean he was one.

No, of course he wasn't. If you go around shooting every guy who looks suspicious, and you think people look suspicious just because they are black and wear a hoodie, you're not a good vigilante at all.

This does remind me of Grand Theft Auto for lots of reasons, by the way.

 

[Quintsa]

Hmph. My grandma is a zimmerman, which is why this thread llooks swell

 

[SugarFreeJazz]

It's pretty ironic when the neighborhood watch guy kills the neighbors.