The Cleffa That Became a Star! (1172)

[Lucario At Service]

Truthfully, i don't mind them using the 3rd Movie plot in this Episode.
I mean, that Movie came out 21 years ago, so majority of Current Viewers of the Anime won't probably even know about it.

Its far better than what many Daily Drama TV Soap do, by recycling plots ever few weeks or months, as they air episode 7 days per week.

 

[Morax]

One thing that bugs me... Cynthia is popular all around... while ash cant get anyone but two randos in aloal acknowledge he is champion... b-b-ut ASH is CHAMPION cuz semantics

Because they’re trying to keep him an underdog and NOT at the same time. If they make him too popular it destroys the narrative because ash is supposed to be that ‘nobody’ from the boonies but at the same time they can’t ignore his status or alola shills would riot.

 

[BobbbidyBob]

I liked the face Ash makes at Goh fanboying over Cynthia. Noice little character detail

 

[Ignition]

This was an ok episode. Admittedly the fact that it uses Movie 3’s plot kind of lost my interest by quite a bit. It was an ok reintroduction for Cynthia. This episode brought out all the “popular character is overrated!1!!1!1” folks but she was fine here. I didn’t expect her to give Goh a rundown on her past encounters with Ash since their relationship is like 90% of the relationships he has with any character. Plus all of her previous encounters with Ash had her focusing on someone or something else. Even though this was ok, I would’ve preferred a different episode to grind her back since she didn’t bring too much to the episode. 6/10

 

[British Soul]

Not an essay time:
Despite the fact that this rehashes elements of M03's plot, there were some emotional elements, what with Kirara coming to terms with the death of her Cleffa and reliving her precious memories towards the end. OF course the Unown that appeared in this episode would spell out NIGHT considering one on its own poses no threat, according to the pokedex (in gen 5 at least). On a different note, Pikachu does have a knack for picking up the specific scents of people as he gravitated himself straight towards Cynthia's location, specifically... her cleavage? in the museum and y'know what, I'm fine with Cynthia appearing in this episode as you can encounter Cynthia in HGSS via the Arceus event, which does involve Unown as well as it happens, funnily enough the last time Unown appeared was in DP. Though I was a little unimpressed with her Garchomp's moveset in this episode between Sandstorm and Scale Shot (which I later learned was an Isle of Armour move), whilst in DP/BW it had powerful moves like Dragon Rush and Draco Meteor, it's definitely gotten weaker in the 9 years since we last saw it. One more thing, I hope Cynthia procrastinated off-screeen when she got them doughnuts, that was one of my favourite elements of her character, her indecisiveness.

 

[masdog]

Dunno whether to laugh or sigh at this point

Why not both?

This is also why Serebii REALLY needs an Eyeroll reaction emoji.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

This episode joins the trio of SM episodes (The litten one, mallow one and minior one) that are just written so damn well and play to Pokemon's strengths, episodes that masterfully explore their theme and one that would stay with you for a long time irrespective of anipoke. One of my fav JN and in general anipoke episodes, for sure!
Also the Cynthia's complaints make zero sense to me. Yes she wasnt needed in the episode and never was intended to be the major focus. This WASNT the Cynthia returns episode, she was a nice little add-on to a beautiful heartwarming episode of the girl and cleffa, and how to deal with loss of a beloved companion. The girl literally goes through the five stages of grief, the emotional ending was so damn good!
Im so lucky I was busy this week and could only find time to watch the episode with subs, coz man I would hate to watch this episode without knowing the dialouges.
You can replace Cynthia with other character thats true and thats why its even better instead of doing that they brought in Cynthia because it makes sense with her interest in lore while also subtly building upto her and Ash's match. If it was a random character people would complain why Cynthia wasnt here, its literally be damned if you do be damned if you dont
I would hate for this episode to be replaced with another episode just so Cynthia could have more when this episode is so beautiful and wasnt about Cynthia's return! Basing your criticism of the episode solely coz 'Cynthia didnt do much' is so eyerolly
The JN staff wasnt kidding when they said episodes would be more better from hereon

 

[Morax]

The girl literally goes through the five stages of grief, the emotional ending was so damn good!

Meanwhile the audience is stuck on the first stage since 2019.

 

[LazySpy]

Meanwhile the audience is stuck on the first stage since 2019.

<<<<<<<<<<< Dropping this anime to watch Mike Flannagan's TV shows and classic movies instead.

 

[Morax]

<<<<<<<<<<< Dropping this anime to watch Mike Flannagan's TV shows and classic movies instead.

A wise choice.

 

[LazySpy]

A wise choice.

Midnight Mass and Haunting of Bly Manor are masterpieces and I will die on that hill.

All my homies watch these two shows or I'll eat you. :^)

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

I would hate for this episode to be replaced with another episode just so Cynthia could have more when this episode is so beautiful and wasnt about Cynthia's return! Basing your criticism of the episode solely coz 'Cynthia didnt do much' is so eyerolly

Except they purposely marketed this episode as cynthia’s return because they knew that would get people’s attention. The clip we saw in the upcoming episodes trailer was of cynthia, they had cynthia be the focus point of episode preview in the magazine, and they even had her VA do an interview about her return. But then she was barely in the episode.

Criticism of this episode in response to cynthia wouldn’t even exist if they didn’t shoehorned her in something that has nothing to do with her. Fact is the episode would work as well without her being haphazardly attached to it. So if anything forcing her in detracted from the episode because people are focusing on her instead. People weren’t expecting her until the winter special anyways, where she could’ve made a return in a more meaningful way.

 

[Ignition]

Also the Cynthia's complaints make zero sense to me. Yes she wasnt needed in the episode and never was intended to be the major focus. This WASNT the Cynthia returns episode, she was a nice little add-on to a beautiful heartwarming episode of the girl and cleffa, and how to deal with loss of a beloved companion. The girl literally goes through the five stages of grief, the emotional ending was so damn good!

I don’t know about this not being the “Cynthia returns” episode given that they highlight this being her first appearance since BW. Like she’s obviously not the focal point of the episode given the little girl, Cleffa, & Unown but it very much is the Cynthia returns episode.

You can replace Cynthia with other character thats true and thats why its even better instead of doing that they brought in Cynthia because it makes sense with her interest in lore while also subtly building upto her and Ash's match. If it was a random character people would complain why Cynthia wasnt here, its literally be damned if you do be damned if you dont

I don’t think people would complain given that Cynthia’s character isn’t tied to this. If it was something like some COTD giving Ash a Mega Ring instead of Korrina then I’d understand given how that’s her whole thing but if you had say Morty or Will from Johto show up, I wouldn’t complain about a lack of Cynthia’s presence. I’d be willing to bet it’s the same for most people. I also felt that buildup was nonexistent besides the audience having the foresight of how obvious the anime is.

I would hate for this episode to be replaced with another episode just so Cynthia could have more when this episode is so beautiful and wasnt about Cynthia's return! Basing your criticism of the episode solely coz 'Cynthia didnt do much' is so eyerolly

I mean Cynthia is the main takeaway from this episode and for the overarching narrative of Journeys. Most of the prerelease showed Cynthia so people would obviously want Cynthia to do something. Now if her portrayal in this episode is worth it is entirely subjective (It was the only interesting part for me & even then I didn’t think it was anything special) but I don’t think it’s unfair to expect more out of her return especially given how every returning character in the past besides Chuck was the focus of their episode.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

@Dragonsoldier77 @Ignition
To address your points
I think the first important distinction in my case is that I tend to separate the marketing team and the writing team. The former rarely focuses on what the latter is trying to focus on in their episode, and instead choose the most hype bits they can use to flanderise and clickbait the episode. I dislike the marketing team and have gotten used to their clickbait that I tend not to judge the episode based on their decisions and rather what the writers were going for. It's clear that the writers were not trying to make this a focus for Cynthia or the 'Cynthia returns' episode wherein the episode revolves around her reappearance, but rather as an add on to the plot they already had in mind which I found beautiful. And even then Cynthia did enough, showing off her battling prowess, her interest in lore and building up to her PWC battle with Ash
If they brought in someone else like Morty, sure it could work but he would have no real narrative basis at all further in the series. Chuck still served purpose in being the exposition for Bea's character and personality. Cynthia meanwhile won't only have the long requested battle with Ash but will also without a doubt feature in the Winter special. With it being heavily likely Dawn will be there too based on the merch, I'm glad they subtly start to build her up earlier rather than cram everything into that episode!
All in all, imo Cynthia served exactly what she needed to in this episode and having her more would come at the expense of this plot that I would hate.
This isn't the Cynthia focused episode anyway, that would be the winter special and her battle with Ash, rather it's a nice add on to give her more time so her later episodes could be properly paced

 

[Ignition]

@Dragonsoldier77 @Ignition
To address your points
I think the first important distinction in my case is that I tend to separate the marketing team and the writing team. The former rarely focuses on what the latter is trying to focus on in their episode, and instead choose the most hype bits they can use to flanderise and clickbait the episode. I dislike the marketing team and have gotten used to their clickbait that I tend not to judge the episode based on their decisions and rather what the writers were going for.

That’s somewhat fair but even then I’m sure the writers were aware that a majority of people would have their interest in this episode come from Cynthia and not COTD #9582.

It's clear that the writers were not trying to make this a focus for Cynthia or the 'Cynthia returns' episode wherein the episode revolves around her reappearance, but rather as an add on to the plot they already had in mind which I found beautiful.

And that’s an issue people have with the episode. I personally don’t really care either way since we’ve had worse returns but I don’t fault anyone for wanting a more interesting “first impression” for Cynthia.

And even then Cynthia did enough, showing off her battling prowess, her interest in lore and building up to her PWC battle with Ash

I’m in agreement with this

If they brought in someone else like Morty, sure it could work but he would have no real narrative basis at all further in the series.

We’re speaking about hypothetical situations so who’s to say that he couldn’t?

Chuck still served purpose in being the exposition for Bea's character and personality.

I’m aware but, again, Chuck wasn’t the focus of the episode. I never said Cynthia didn’t add to the episode. I’m just saying I personally felt it was a mediocre return. She was ok but felt like there was a better way to incorporate her into the story.

Cynthia meanwhile won't only have the long requested battle with Ash but will also without a doubt feature in the Winter special.

I’m talking about this episode as a return. The battle with Ash is probably what I’m looking forward to the most in Journeys but there’s always the chance she doesn’t appear even if likely. I’d bet the special would be a more fitting return for her character

With it being heavily likely Dawn will be there too based on the merch, I'm glad they subtly start to build her up earlier rather than cram everything into that episode!

It’s too early to say but they could incorporate Dawn & Cynthia in an arc together similarly to how they did to BW (which I found to be a vastly better return for Dawn & Cynthia but that’s besides the point)

All in all, imo Cynthia served exactly what she needed to in this episode and having her more would come at the expense of this plot that I would hate.
This isn't the Cynthia focused episode anyway, that would be the winter special and her battle with Ash, rather it's a nice add on to give her more time so her later episodes could be properly paced

She served her role and if this was like a follow up after she was already reacquainted with Ash (I’m imagining the Mega Audino episode that had Sycamore help the Nurse Joy while also setting up Zygarde’s plot) then I’d be more ok with her in this episode. Basically this episode’s incorporation of Cynthia was fine but meh as a return for her character after so long.

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

@Dragonsoldier77 @Ignition
To address your points
I think the first important distinction in my case is that I tend to separate the marketing team and the writing team. The former rarely focuses on what the latter is trying to focus on in their episode, and instead choose the most hype bits they can use to flanderise and clickbait the episode. I dislike the marketing team and have gotten used to their clickbait that I tend not to judge the episode based on their decisions and rather what the writers were going for. It's clear that the writers were not trying to make this a focus for Cynthia or the 'Cynthia returns' episode wherein the episode revolves around her reappearance, but rather as an add on to the plot they already had in mind which I found beautiful. And even then Cynthia did enough, showing off her battling prowess, her interest in lore and building up to her PWC battle with Ash
If they brought in someone else like Morty, sure it could work but he would have no real narrative basis at all further in the series. Chuck still served purpose in being the exposition for Bea's character and personality. Cynthia meanwhile won't only have the long requested battle with Ash but will also without a doubt feature in the Winter special. With it being heavily likely Dawn will be there too based on the merch, I'm glad they subtly start to build her up earlier rather than cram everything into that episode!
All in all, imo Cynthia served exactly what she needed to in this episode and having her more would come at the expense of this plot that I would hate.
This isn't the Cynthia focused episode anyway, that would be the winter special and her battle with Ash, rather it's a nice add on to give her more time so her later episodes could be properly paced

Even if you discount the clear marketing push, a major and popular character making a return would’ve always been the focus of attention when it happens. The writers would’ve been stupid to not realize that themselves. Their mistake was thinking just having her show up without doing anything significant was enough. In fact if anything it makes me think the writers were forced to put cynthia in last minute in a bid to get more attention.

Again i have to stress how this episode is good without cynthia. So adding a character that detracts from that for no reason is just a very foolish writing decision. If they really wanted to incorporate her into this plot, she ahould’ve been the one who figured out what was going on based on her research or take a part in helping the girl move on in her own way. But here goh solved the mystery by himself without any need for cynthia’s knowledge or expertise, and cynthia didn’t even say anything to the girl aside from offerinf donuts and a line after everything was done. They just dumped her in a museum because archaeology and have her show off scale shot. Things that could’ve been shown off better in a plot where she had a more relevant role to the plot.

This appearance also adds nothing to a possible appearance from her in the winter special where she could’ve made a return with focus on her that won’t distract from the plot at hand, and would’ve been a more fitting build up for a match againts ash in the PWC. I absolutely can’t see what good adding cynthia here has brought aside from the obvious clickbait.

 

[pardusco]

Man, I'm really not a fan of these random emotional episodes that come out of no where with zero context. It was especially jarring in SM when they were just constantly goofing off only for some random depressive moment to pop up, and then they immediately proceed to goof off again. It's so inconsistent lol

Didn't really care for it and it was obvious that Cynthia was the perfect character to bait in some extra views. I remember when blatant fan service was considered a bad thing. Oh well.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Man, I'm really not a fan of these random emotional episodes that come out of no where with zero context. It was especially jarring in SM when they were just constantly goofing off only for some random depressive moment to pop up, and then they immediately proceed to goof off. It's so inconsistent lol

Didn't really care for it and it was obvious that Cynthia was the perfect character to bait in some extra views. I remember when blatant fan service was considered a bad thing. Oh well.

Spoiler: Fan service you say

Subtle, like a brick thrown in a china shop

 

[Soniman]

Man, I'm really not a fan of these random emotional episodes that come out of no where with zero context. It was especially jarring in SM when they were just constantly goofing off only for some random depressive moment to pop up, and then they immediately proceed to goof off again. It's so inconsistent lol

Pokémon is an episodic series you're not gonna seen a 5 episode lead in to a emotional story about a filler character. Not sure how it's "jarring" to have episode that cover a wide range of topics. Wasn't a problem in SM or here honestly

I remember when blatant fan service was considered a bad thing. Oh well.

From what context are you making this statement from? Are you implying the writers should know this or the audience? Because literally last page you have people complaining about it.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

This appearance also adds nothing to a possible appearance from her in the winter special

I'm surprised you are saying that considering you've had a problem with the pacing and stuff that were crammed into one episode. Since due to merch it's likely Dawn will feature in the winter special, and we have Cynthia and ofc Dialga Palkia and all the sinnoh lore (and quite possibly Arceus and giratina), the episodes would be pretty packed. So isn't it nice we already have Cynthia meet the boys and have a mini reintroduction to her before the winter special, so we won't have to waste time doing that in those epsiodes and thus have more space for everything else?