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When I was younger, I thought that if I evolved a shiny, it wouldn't be shiny anymore. : P


The 190 Generation

I was browsing through some of Smogon's older archived threads and discovered this little gem right here.

So this is my long-speculated but now-confirmed theory about Red/Green's development, now put into a proper form.

Summarised, what I've found out is:

- There were originally supposed to be 190 Pokémon.
- 39 of these got removed after being added to the game and saved for Generation 2. However some of them might have never been intended to be used: this is kind of a strange area which I will go into extra detail on.
- We already know the order in which these first 190 Pokémon were made.

Here's what led me to form this theory:

The Index List and Missingno.s


This is the bulk of the evidence. It's the order in which the Pokémon were added into the games, and since Ken Sugimori has apparently confirmed Rhydon as the first Pokémon designed, this can be seen as the order in which Pokémon were designed too. It definitely makes sense anyway... so yeah.

The most useful part of this list is how it follows a completely random pattern until 190, however each Pokémon is a valid Pokémon except for 39 Missingno.s dotted randomly throughout. Very importantly, these Missingno.s, when taken into the Time Capsule, are all read by the Gen 2 cart as a particular Gen 2 Pokémon, each Missingno. corresponding to a different one. These 39 Pokémon are the ones that were taken out after being added in.

Note how after 190 the list loses composure and just follows the Gen 2 Pokédex numbers. This implies those Pokémon were created afterwards, a statement solidified by the next evidence:

The Beta Artwork

Spot the odd one out? These are all the designs of Pokémon that definitely came out in Gen 2. And when you look at their numbers on the index list, things start to add up. That's Chikorita #191, Qwilfish #250, Marill #222, Girafarig #242, Cyndaquil #197 and... Tyranitar #183. Yeaaahh.

Asking Game Freak About It

So at the worlds this year I decided to ask Shigeki Morimoto, the guy who made Mew, about it. Since I asked him at the autograph table, where he would have his translator, I didn't have long so I can pretty much outline the exchange as this:

Me: "So in Red and Green, were there originally exactly 190 Pokémon?"

*Translator relays to Morimoto; he sort of jumps in his chair enthusiastically (lol) and seems very happy, grinning at me*

Translator: "Yes; we decided to save the rest of the designs for later"

Me: "So for example Ho-Oh was made for Red and Green first? Since it was in the first episode of the anime?"

*he hears Ho-Oh and looks confused, then then when the translator says the rest to him he remains the same*

Translator: "No, not Ho-Oh. He wasn't made earlier."

And then I say domo arigato and get rushed out by the queue building behind me, heheh. However what he said about Ho-Oh just doesn't make sense so I'm guessing that was an error in the translation. Since Ho-Oh is #49 in the list and appears in anime episode 1 it obviously had been made by that time so he probably tried to say Ho-Oh wasn't made for Red and Green, and was just in there with no real intention of keeping it in.

So yeah, those are my findings! I hope you all find them interesting.
Personally, I thought this was a really interesting theory. It makes sense although there is no real way to actually prove that Morimoto confirmed this. Although the game's coding means that this theory may hold some water.

Also, Rhydon was the first Pokemon ever designed; I had no idea.


I already knew Rhydon was first somehow (can't remember how), but I have never seen this list before. Not sure why but it seems very odd to me that Porygon2 was designed long before Porygon. Looking at the ones removed it seems like they had very good reasons for removing some of them. They include Dark/Steel types, evolution methods not in Red/Green, or legendaries.

EDIT: What the hell, this is not the thread this post was posted in, I am confused.
EDIT2: Oh wait, they merged the threads. -_-
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Because I'm Worth It
Wow, this is really interesting, I never knew most of this. So that explains the origins of Missingno.! The mystery is revealed!


This may be true since I have seen those drawings before and Ho-Oh was in the first episode after all.


I'm a Fan, Man!
Wow that explains why my red kept glitching up. Cool!


Rev up those fryers
Wow, this is really interesting, I never knew most of this. So that explains the origins of Missingno.! The mystery is revealed!

*sigh* Cutting out 39 Pokemon is not the origin of Missingno. It's a placeholder. Nothing more. Otherwise we'd have 256 Pokemon in Red/Green/Blue. The "mystery" has revealed for a long time now.


Wow that explains why my red kept glitching up. Cool!

Deciding to only make 151 instead of 190 has nothing to do with glitches. See above.


Poké Flautist
Wow this was extremely interesting and entertaining! Thank you very much for sharing this! It took me a while to recognise Cyndaquil though :O Wow!


SSBB: 5069-4586-5573
What if Ho-Oh was the anime's creation?
It was. The animators made this Pokémon, without it ever existing in any other part of the franchise to begin with. This is further hinted at by how Ash refers to Articuno (I believe that was the one) as if it were the one he had seen, instead of Ho-Oh. This is likely because people who were further involved with the franchise looked over the first episode after the animation had been completed, and told them that the design was incorrect, making sure that they fixed it in the second episode, but being too late to make the change in the first episode. Later, due to immense popularity, they decided to actually include the golden Pokémon's design in the games, eventually as the one we all came to know as Ho-Oh. That is pretty much what happened, I'd say, but the part about reviewing the animation is just reasoning on my part.


Brock Obama
Time to buff Pikachu?

It seems that the mascot of Pokemon is being nerfed to the extreme, losing out to almost anything, with its only up-side being its unpredictability which is still limited by its atrocious defenses and sub-par speed, along with item dependability, especially the base ATK and SPA stats which will at best be a base 110 and 100 respectively, which does not allow it to sweep better than the most generic of generic Lucarios.

Hope in the RSE remakes or 6th gen, they will bump its ATK stats to something like 60 or 65 each, and up 10 speed to make it fast enough to balance out its defenses. Maybe keep Raichu's attacking stats but bump its speed and defenses to compensate, so Pikachu and Raich can actually play out as 2 very different pokemon, with Raichu not underpowered too. This will help Pikachu retain its rightful place as the Mascot of all pokemon forever more!

Oh, and event Surf-chus in 5th Gen pls!
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Well-Known Member
There's no need to "buff" Pikachu. Pikachu already has an item exclusive to it (Light Ball) and the Pikachu line has an exclusive move (Volt Tackle). Light Ball is literally like holding both a Choice Band AND Choice Specs AND still being able to use any of the 4 moves!

What you need to remember is not all Pokemon are equal. A team of Pikachu, Butterfree, and Staraptor will always get destroyed versus a team of Heatran, Garchomp, and Dialga. Not all Pokemon are created equal. That's why those in the competitive environment created tiers so that all Pokemon get a chance to shine.

That being said, Pikachu is perfecltly viable in the main 8 gyms + E4 game, even without Light Ball. It's got a great movepool and respectable speed. Sure, you'll have to work a bit harder as you progress later in the game, but that's why you have a team to use and you can build it so that other members can do what Pikachu can't.


New Member
I was told you could bring pokemon back to life in Lavender Town using the Poke Flute and the Silph Scope in RBY. I believed it too. :c Mind you I was like 5 or 6.


Back in Blue
Cyndaquil's the that looks like a Fire typed Raichu.

Anyway, it is interesting how there would've been 190 Pokemon, and I'm assuming some were hold off because they were thinking of ways to put them in (friendship and item holding did not exist at the moment), plus Steel and Dark didn't exist yet.

The development of Pokemon is always interesting.
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