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The Club Battle Finale: A Heroes Outcome! (703)

ForgottenPearl

Well-Known Member
Personally, I was glad to see Iris win, but that's just me. Like other people have said, I might've found the last battle to be a bit more intense had Ash chosen a different Mon, but it was okay.

And the Axew battle was good too.

Not to mention Bianca got to huggle and cuddle Zorua one last time. :)

Overall, I enjoyed this arc, getting to see a wide variety of characters and how they interact.
 

SasakiThePikachu

like pepsi cola
Not to mention Bianca got to huggle and cuddle Zorua one last time.

I really enjoyed this little tournament mini-arc, with the exception of one thing. Bianca's obsession with Zorua was cute at first, but it quickly got to the 'JUST PUT THE BLOODY ZORUA DOWN WHAT ARE YOU FIVE' stage with me.
 
I really enjoyed this little tournament mini-arc, with the exception of one thing. Bianca's obsession with Zorua was cute at first, but it quickly got to the 'JUST PUT THE BLOODY ZORUA DOWN WHAT ARE YOU FIVE' stage with me.

My reaction was the latter even when the joke started.
 

Vernikova

Champion
Iris's battle with that fist kid was pretty amusing to watch. Except for the end of it where Outrage came out of nowhere to save her Pokemon. From the looks of the type advantage, Iris is going to stomp Ash in this match.

Well, while it wasn't a stomp she won anyway. I guess that's the advantage of choosing second. Cilan proves to be awesome while constantly beating down this Burgundy girl.
 

flamebeam

DAYN-JUH ZONE!
i gotta say, the hearthome tournament was 4835839374729485 times better than this one. pokemon is taking steps backwards with the unova saga -_-

btw, WTF HAPPENED TO VOLT TACKLE!? WHO GIVES A F*** ABOUT ELECTRO BALL!?
 

wobbanut

Team Awesome
Interesting that even if Ash didn't get the win, Iris did. And at least Burgundy's satisfied for now, LOL. Plus, I loved the ongoing thing with Bianca and zorua.

7/10
 

TurtwigFan1

burning it down
These past few episodes have been a great arc! So good to see all the different friends and rivals interacting as one big group, hope it happens more often. I thought for sure Ash was going to win, but I'm super glad Iris did. Her and Excadrill have the cutest friendship. I hope Bianca eventually finds her own Zorua so she can stop stealing Luke's! Really good end to the tournament, looking forward to the upcoming arrival in Nimbasa City and the gym battle.
 
Luke, Cilan and Stefan all have the same eyes.
Must be a Unova thing...
 
I have to agree with the member who called this episode disappointing. While some of the interactions were fun to watch (I definitely enjoyed Cilan’s evaluation battle against Burgundy—and Cilan destroying her in it) the battles were either lackluster or just plain annoying. The final battle of Pikachu vs. Excadrill was a bit dull compared to a lot of the battles from Diamond and Pearl. It only consisted of Pikachu and Excadrill launching attacks at each other and there was no creativity or surprising strategies involved. Not to mention, the massive type advantage for Excadrill made it easy to guess who the winner would be. It was a lackluster way to end a tournament, especially with a character winning that I didn’t feel deserved the big victory. I like Iris, but she and her Pokemon should have gotten more character development before this.

Three of her four victories in this tournament were completely forced to work in her favor despite her being a weaker trainer than her opponents, and the other victory wasn’t even on screen for the most part.

Darumaka was disappointing as well, as it didn’t even get a chance to show its power.

The worst battle of the episode has to be Axew vs. Golett; it was a big example of plot hax. In order to beat Golett, Axew had to randomly learn an attack that is so strong that Axew’s overall lack of strength didn’t matter. Not to mention, Axew had only recently mastered Dragon Rage at that point. It had not received enough development to make Outrage okay. It’s also made blatantly obvious that Outrage was a plot device that only existed so Iris would win one battle, because after the tournament, Outrage is never used again.

In my opinion, Luke should have won his battle against Iris and then lost to Ash in the final. Anything would have been more interesting than Pikachu vs. Excadrill.
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
I have to agree with the member who called this episode disappointing. While some of the interactions were fun to watch (I definitely enjoyed Cilan’s evaluation battle against Burgundy—and Cilan destroying her in it) the battles were either lackluster or just plain annoying. The final battle of Pikachu vs. Excadrill was a bit dull compared to a lot of the battles from Diamond and Pearl. It only consisted of Pikachu and Excadrill launching attacks at each other and there was no creativity or surprising strategies involved. Not to mention, the massive type advantage for Excadrill made it easy to guess who the winner would be. It was a lackluster way to end a tournament, especially with a character winning that I didn’t feel deserved the big victory. I like Iris, but she and her Pokemon should have gotten more character development before this.

I agree. Iris did not deserve the victory at the end. I still feel Ash should have won. While the odds were stacked against him it's not impossible to think Pikachu could have won. They were fairly evenly matched for most of the battle. A strong enough iron tail could have done it. Pikachu probably needs to diversify his move set, learn brick brake or something. That would even the odds a lot. Overall Iris winning was a bad end to what was not a really significant saga, considering they follow the same sequence in 2 more competitions. It wouldn't have minded it so much has Ash had a chance to win a small competition later in the series but unfortunately he did not.

I'm in two minds about BW. On the one hand I thought the characters were good especially Ashs Oshawott and Snivy. On the other hand the plot lines were weak. This episode especially. It had some good moments but overall was not good. Unfortunately XY is even worse. I don't like the Pokémon and I hate Ash's companions. Storyline are average.
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
To be fair Pikachu DOES have a slight advantage against Emolga. With Emolga being part flying and all. Personally I thought Ash went with Pikachu because it was his most experienced. Even if Iris might of used Axew, Axew still doesn't seem to possess the experience Pikachu does.

Personally I think they should've forced Ash in to using Pikachu in the semifinals, that way he could only use a choice of Snivy, Palpitoed, or Pikachu.
Or did all the trainers have to register their 3 pokemon at the beginning?

Snivy wouldn't fair well against 2/3 of Iris's pokemon. Palpitoed only 1/3 he has an advantage over. BUT Excadrill would STILL have the experience edge over Palpitoed.


Personally I think people are getting WAY TOO uptight over this ONE LOSS Ash/Pikachu suffered to Iris/Excadrill. I don't think the result would've been different had he used the other two. IMO anyways. Plus it sets up the final badge down the road. (Planning ahead? What a concept).

Except Ash never really made up the loss. He lost every other competition including a candle race and the league ended poorly. Besides Pikachy is still rather powerful. A powerful iron tail to Excadill's horn would have done it. It was a bad outcome and makes the entire tournament saga look like a joke. For me this was the worst outcome in BW. Way worse than loosing to Cameron in the league.
 
The gags that happened through this tournament were really bad. The worst one so far was Bianca's obsession with Luke's Zorua. She really should have gotten over the fact that Luke wasn't going to trade with her. The way she treated Luke when he asked her to stop wasn't funny at all. If a character has to be portrayed as obnoxious for a joke, then the joke is going to be more annoying than funny.
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
Now I come to think about it more Iris's winning the tournament really is the most unfair outcome. She only managed to win her battle with Luke because Axew learned outrage, which is odd given that Axew is demonstrated to be very young and hasn't had much battle experience. If it hadn't been for that she never would have faced Ash in the first place. On top of that she had done very little training with Emolga yet Emolga won her battle too. She only won against Ash really because her Excadrill has a significant type advantage against Pikachu and is reasonably powerful.

Ash on the other hand had trained his Pokémon and had used Snivy and Pikachu in battles prior to this one. He didn't win any of his matches by fluke which makes it rather sad that he lost in the end. In all fairness Ash is probably a much better trainer than Iris, the problem with a competition like this is that the sudden death nature of the one on one battles with the elimination style of the competition means it ends up being unrepresentative of a trainer's true ability. Ash has plently of Pokémon that could have taken out Excadrill namely Palpitoad, Oshawott and Buizel but he chose to send out Pikachu before Iris choose her partner. And so it ended up being a really bad result - This ruined the series in my opinion.
 

phanpycross

God-king
Now I come to think about it more Iris's winning the tournament really is the most unfair outcome. She only managed to win her battle with Luke because Axew learned outrage, which is odd given that Axew is demonstrated to be very young and hasn't had much battle experience. If it hadn't been for that she never would have faced Ash in the first place. On top of that she had done very little training with Emolga yet Emolga won her battle too. She only won against Ash really because her Excadrill has a significant type advantage against Pikachu and is reasonably powerful.

Ash on the other hand had trained his Pokémon and had used Snivy and Pikachu in battles prior to this one. He didn't win any of his matches by fluke which makes it rather sad that he lost in the end. In all fairness Ash is probably a much better trainer than Iris, the problem with a competition like this is that the sudden death nature of the one on one battles with the elimination style of the competition means it ends up being unrepresentative of a trainer's true ability. Ash has plently of Pokémon that could have taken out Excadrill namely Palpitoad, Oshawott and Buizel but he chose to send out Pikachu before Iris choose her partner. And so it ended up being a really bad result - This ruined the series in my opinion.

I REALLY hope you didnt seriously think the series was "ruined" because Iris beat Ash's pikachu using a pokemon that resists/is immune to pikachu's entire moveset. Sure, Ash could have pulled out another pokemon, but pikachu was Ash's strongest pokemon on hand at the timeno lord boldore, and I doubt he would summon infernape or something like that for a small tournement like this.

In general it isnt even like Ash losing once had any huge impact on BW as a whole, so I dont get why this of all things would ruin the series for you?
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
I REALLY hope you didnt seriously think the series was "ruined" because Iris beat Ash's pikachu using a pokemon that resists/is immune to pikachu's entire moveset. Sure, Ash could have pulled out another pokemon, but pikachu was Ash's strongest pokemon on hand at the timeno lord boldore, and I doubt he would summon infernape or something like that for a small tournement like this.

In general it isnt even like Ash losing once had any huge impact on BW as a whole, so I dont get why this of all things would ruin the series for you?

In some ways I do and I do so for the following reasons:

1. Like i've said before neither Ash or Pikachu make up the loss. Everything goes downhill from this point with Ash performing worse in the next two tournaments he competes in and coming up poor in the league. It made Ash look weak and amateurish and worse it made his Unova team Pikachu include look weak and inexperienced, which is a really big shame because most of my favourite Pokémon were in Unova. Compared with DP where he one at least one major non-league competition it's rather sad that he should loose an unimportant contest to a relatively inexperienced trainer using a Pokémon that a few episodes previously didn't even trust her.

2. Nothing is actually achieved or gained from this competition. It doesn't showcase how any characters have grown or developed over the series except possibly it demonstrates a patch up in the relationship between Iris and Excadrill. And that wasn't really highlighted so what's the point - It just makes the arch seem like a pointless filler.

3. Of all the people Ash could have lost against he lost to Iris, who had spent most of the series prior to this demeaning him and calling him a little kid for making simple mistakes. All her victory does is vindicate her and make it seem like Ash is an incompetent and inexperienced trainer and gives Iris more ground to to demean him. That casts a shadow over his entire journey in the Unova region and makes it look like he can't do anything right or achieve anything in his own right. She even mocked him and called him a kid over Pikachu using thunderbolt at the start of the battle, which I think is kind of arrogant.

In any case up to this point Ash has travelled through four regions and managed to gain a high ranking in regional Pokémon leagues and has captured and trained many different Pokémon. Iris had only spent a short period of time as a trainer and had only caught 4 Pokémon by this episode. Ash has done well by showing friendship and respect for his Pokémon whereas Excadrill up until a few episodes ago refused to even look at Iris because she had hurt his feelings. For the two of them to turn that all around and come out with such a massive win in such a short space of time has a questionable logic to it in my opinion.

4. The tournament doesn't reflect the trainer's actually ability with Pokémon. One on one battles in an elimination style tournament essentially means it's a sudden death competition. Iris had such a advantage that effectively she won before the match had even started. If it had been two against two or three on three then the greater degree of diversity in Pokémon chosen and the requirement to beat more than one opponent would be a better way of determining a trainers ability to work with their Pokémon and adapt to different situations.

5. It continues the series trait of giving Pikachu a beating. Pikachu is Ash's closest and strongest partner and should be given a brighter spotlight than he was during the BW series. In my opinion the writers unfairly treated him like a punching bag. I accept that Pikachu is still brittle in his strength and had a massive type disadvantage here but it was still a bad loss that should not have happened. Why did he have to get slammed into the wall like that - that was hard to watch. And this comes on top of loosing to a Panpour in the first gym battle against Cress (when Oshawott beat a Pansage), nearly loosing to a Swanna in the battle against Skyla and going out to Cameron's Lucario in the end of the series. Poor Pikachu.

If they really wanted to give Ash such a bad loss why not demolish a different Pokémon. It would not have been as bad if Ash had lost with a different Pokémon. Oshawott would be my preferened candidate. He could have used palpitoad and lost given palpitoad's lack of experience. Even Snivy is another possibility given she would be a general disadvantage. But Pikachu has been with Ash since the beginning, he's Ash's most trusted and closest partner and the one he loves the most so it's not unreasonable that by this stage in Ash's career he should be able to hold his own a little better than this. The writers spent the series picking on him. I'm glad he's getting the spotlight he deserves in XY.

6. In any case it's a relatively hollow victory on Iris's part. As far as I can see she won because of a type advantage rather than her own skill. She didn't win that conclusively and she got lucky with the last focus blast. Pikachu put up a very good fight and probably nearly won. If he could have blocked or dodged that final focus blast he probably would have been able to score a winning blow with Iron tail - I don't know. Either way it's a shallow achievement on her part. She got lucky because the odds were in her favour yet still felt the need to call Ash a kid.

If the episode has a saving grace it's the hug scene between Ash and Pikachu after the battle which brings out their friendship and love for each other in as good a way as a victory would have and in some respects better than.

I'm happy for Iris. She came, fought hard along with her pokemon, and proved a point.

What point did she prove?? She had no point to prove. Ash had the point to prove - I'm not a little kid and I'm actually better than you - WHICH HE IS.
 
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In some ways I do and I do so for the following reasons:


5. It continues the series trait of giving Pikachu a beating. I accept that Pikachu while Ash's strongest Pokémon is still brittle in his strength and had a massive type disadvantage here but it was still a bad loss. Why did he have to get slammed into the wall like that - that was hard to watch. And this comes on top of loosing to a Panpour in the first gym battle against Cress (when Oshawott beat a Pansage), nearly loosing to a Swanna in the battle against Skyla and going out to Cameron's Lucario in the end of the series. Poor Pikachu. If they really wanted to give Ash such a bad loss why not demolish a different Pokémon - Oshawott maybe. Pikachu has been with Ash since the beginning, he's Ash's most trusted and closest partner and the one he loves the most so it's not unreasonable that by this stage in Ash's career he should be able to hold his own a little better than this. The writers spent the series picking on him.

If the episode has a saving grace it's the hug scene between Ash and Pikachu after the battle which brings out their friendship and love for each other in as good a way as a victory would have and in some respects better than.
You do realise that Pikachu gets resetted at the start of every new saga.SO one moment he can beat a legendary the next he loses to some joke that he should easily beat(eg Snivy and Panpour)or Elekid and Magikarp in DP.
 
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Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
You do realise that Pikachu gets resetted at the start of every new saga.SO one moment he can beat a legendary the next he loses to some joke that he should easily beat(eg Snivy and Panpour)or Elekid and Magikarp in DP.

I dispute that Pikachu is reset at the start of the new saga. That's a fan theory to explain why Pikachu lost several battles at the beginning of BW which I personally don't believe is a satisfactory explanation. Pikachu was made unable to use electric type moves after the encounter with Zekrom during the first battle with Trip where Snivy beat him - That was not a reasonable or fair battle because of Pikachu's disability and either Ash or Trip should have called the battle off the moment they realised Pikachu was ill. If I had to make judgement I would say Ash acted inappropriately in not calling the battle off after it was shown Pikachu couldn't use electric attacks. Given Pikachu is his best friend he should have been more attentive to his welfare. Following this Pikachu regained the ability to use electric type moves and there was no evidence he was reset and no obvious reason for that to have been an issue. The Panpour battle was an abomination - Pikachu should not have lost to a Panpour. The only explanations I can think to support that are that either Cress is a much more skilled trainer than either Cilan or Chili, and I think that conclusion is reasonable in respect to Chili although by what degree remains unclear, or that Ash may have been overconfident about the type advantage.

The Panpour battle also begs the question - If a panpour can beat an electric type why shouldn't Pikachu be able to beat Excadrill - There's nothing in that. Snivy aside, Panpour and Excadrill really did make me think that the writers were just taking the piss on Pikachu for most of the BW series. That's probably the one improvement they've made in XY - Pikachu is finally being given the glory he deserves. There have been some losses but so far Pikachu has been the start of the first three gym battles.
 
The Panpour battle also begs the question - If a panpour can beat an electric type why shouldn't Pikachu be able to beat Excadrill - That's probably the one improvement they've made in XY - Pikachu is finally being given the glory he deserves. There have been some losses but so far Pikachu has been the start of the first three gym battles.
Weird Anime logic or the fact that the anime isn't consistent with type advantages/disadvantages.

Oh please I'm getting sick of Pika taking all the glory in XY it's taking away from his Kalos Pokémon.I rather how Pikachu was in BW than in XY.I swear Pikachu hardly loses in XY, he only has 2 losses while his other Pokémon get screwed over with consistent loses that's also not fair.
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
Oh please I'm getting sick of Pika taking all the glory in XY it's taking away from his Kalos Pokémon.I rather how Pikachu was in BW than in XY.I swear Pikachu hardly loses in XY, he only has 2 losses while his other Pokémon get screwed over with consistent loses that's also not fair.

He's Ash's first Pokémon who has been with him since the start of the series meaning of everyone he's had the most training and the most experience. Logically you would expect him to be much better than Pokémon Ash has only just caught. Also he's Ash's best friend and most trustworthy and loved partner so why shouldn't he use him. In any case it's not as if Pikachu is begin shown as being overpowered. Most of the gym battles have been close. He lost to Viola's surskit in the first episode and didn't land one hit when he went up against Korrina's Lucario the first time. I also don't think Pikachu appears in the fourth gym battle so it's not like he's talking all the glory. XY has put Pikachu rightful where he should be in terms of battles and strength.
 
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