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The Confederate Flag

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Nikkolas, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Nikkolas

    Nikkolas Active Member

    Yeah, an argument old as the hills but I'm interested to see what people think.

    I once had a lot of sympathy for the South because everything I read seemed to portray them as the inevitable losers of the war. Their soldiers were under-supplied and etc.. I also was more intrigued by them because when I was younger, it was always just pro-slavery (bad) vs. anti-slavery (good) but when I looked into it more and grew up, there were a lot of other reasons too.

    However I brought up this point to another person and he said a very obvious counter-point: not all Nazis or Soviet soldiers fought to exterminate Jews or the like. But flying a Nazi or Confederate flag will always have certain connotations no matter what the personal motivation was for certain troops.

    So what is your feeling towards someone flying the Confederate flag? Do you view it as tantamount to supporting oppression of black people? Do you think they're allowed to express whatever they like and don't give it any more thought?
     
  2. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    eh, i think people should have a right to at least hang it i guess. gives me edgy feelings about them though, but it doesnt mean they're racist automatically. some people have descendants and love them regardless of what they fought for.
     
  3. Leon Phelps

    Leon Phelps Don't Tread on Me

    I can't speak for all the black people in America, but for the ones in my community at least, the Confederate Flag has been a non-issue and irrelevant talking point. I see a few white kids with the symbol on their shirts every once in a while, but they're not racists; just people who needed something to put on for that day.

    But yeah, I don't see many people giving this non-issue too much attention anymore. When it is discussed, nobody actually claims to be racists, just people who want to "preserve their heritage." But whatever that heritage may be, as a black person it doesn't bother me.

    I think our generation has done pretty well when it comes to ignoring the Confederate Flag.
     
  4. PokemonHero

    PokemonHero I can see the future

    I live in Maryland, where loyalties were split majorly during the Civil War. Most of the time I do see a Confederate flag, it's on some shirt. And most of the people who wear those shirts kinda fit into the redneck group of people (I live on the Eastern Shore).

    I believe that there is no problem for someone to fly the Confederate flag, as long as they hang it within proper accordance of the flag code (i.e., it doesn't fly above the American flag). The Civil War was about much more than slavery.
     
  5. HoennMaster

    HoennMaster Well-Known Member

    I don't really have a position regarding it. I just get strange feelings when seeing one, kind of like "what the heck is going on?".
     
  6. not true up untill ghettysburg (or however you spell it) they were winning the war

    i dont find the flag as a symbol of pro slavery i see it sort of as a symbol that says im from the south
     
  7. Mr. Mudkip

    Mr. Mudkip Banned

    I think the confederate flag represents the South and The Dukes of Hazzard.

    btw, with E. Lee, and for their situation, the confederates kicked ass in the civil war. The North suffered more deaths and caualties overall.

    And the South fought mostly to protect their freedom, not slavery (although it was incentive) with the jobs down their all being in the farming industry.
    My great great great uncle (I believe) died fighting for the south.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  8. KBM117

    KBM117 Well-Known Member

    The Confederate Flag doesn't bother me. I've lived in Tennessee, South Carolina, and I currently live in Georgia during my lifetime. And Surprisingly, I haven't seen very many people with a Confederate flag. People seem to think that everyone who lives in the South is a racist redneck when in reality many, many people have moved on from racism.

    And I actually have an ancestor from TN who was against slavery even though his parents owned some.

    He said in a letter that he supported William T. Sherman and Ulysses S. Grant all the way even though he was fighting for the South. He even said that the South is a disgrace in his eyes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2008
  9. It's a sense of pride. Even though the South had lost the war, it's the fact that they fought for their freedom and beliefs.

    Even amongst American Indians (at least in my tribe), they fly the American flag upside down (illegal yeah). Not because they hate America but because they were proud that they at least fought against what they viewed as "wrong." When I go to the Reservation I still see inverted flags when traditional events are held.

    In my opinion, it's about pride (obviously). I have no problem.
     
  10. ImJessieTR

    ImJessieTR I WON'T kiss Ash...

    Freedom to do what, exactly? I'm FROM the South, and all the "It wasn't just about slavery" silliness ignores the fact that the south fought for freedom ... to have slaves. It was about state's rights ... to have slaves. When some militia morons want to secede from the Union now (coughAlaska,etccough), we label them domestic terrorists. Immigration is just Slavery Argument Part 2. State and local governments said they should have the right to deal with it themselves, same for education, marriage, etc. The feds continue the belief that they have the final say, not states. Quite frankly, the US tried the whole confederate thing prior to the Constitution ... and it failed. States can't work together apparently on their own. The Articles of the Confederation proved to the Founding Fathers that a federal government with some teeth was needed.
     
  11. J'han

    J'han IrresponsibleCaptain

    Perhaps my indifference towards it was influenced by the fact that I have always loved rebels, and to me it seemed a rebel thing. Besides, it's a nice design.

    And the Nazi flag irritated me, because the swastika was used for wolf magic in Northern Europe, as a symbol in the Middle East of prtection and so forth. Leave it to a handful to ruin it for many, like ppl who poo in the pool.

    But the Confederate flag? I have a friend who wears a jean vest with the sleeves ripped off, and a Confederate Flag on the back. Oh, yeah, the important part: he's black, and from the south. He wears it for the same reason I like it, it seems a rebel thing to us.
     
  12. ImJessieTR

    ImJessieTR I WON'T kiss Ash...

    But the US flag represents rebellion as well. Remember, the US was founded on the holy notion that rich white men shouldn't have to pay their taxes.
     
  13. Dark SpOOn Bender

    Dark SpOOn Bender Paramount

    These are my views on the Confederate Flag.
    It is an indication that you encourage secession from the nation, which is not allowed.
    Is it a symbol of the south? Yes, but it is a symbol of the south from when it was a separated portion of the country, not the current south. It is a useless symbol now because we were once again united after the Civil War and have been ever since.
    I think of it as a sign of disrespect for the country, a sign that you don't want to be here. If you don't like it here, then go somewhere else.

    There is no point in the Confederate Flag. It isn't apart of the present U.S.A. or anything that this nation represents. Displaying it shows you have a mindset stuck back in the 1860's and possibly wish that the outcome of the war had turned out differently.
    This country has come a long way since the Civil War and has moved on, and so should you.


    Should you actually be allowed to display it though?
    I guess you have the right to since it isn't hurting anybody or directly insulting anybody, although, like I said, all it shows is a disrespect for the country and the idea that you support past ideas that are now worthless.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  14. Voltrex

    Voltrex ThePikachuWooperTeam

    Ill start by saying, Im black. Now, I personally cant stand the flag, but it is an example of freedom of expression,which is a right protected by the constitution, I guess. But what we really must ask ourselves is:

    "Does the constitution even matter?"

    I mean believe it or not Thomas Jefferson did something that the constitution never said he could do, and that was buy land.

    Lincoln violated the constitution when he freed slaves.

    So, does anyone know if it even matters anymore?
     
  15. Hunter_RuLe

    Hunter_RuLe < Guess who's back?

    First of all I believe a flag itself, or any symbol for that matter, doesn't really represent anything.

    It is the people who connect stories and meanings to these symbols, depending on what they have experienced themself and on what is told them. The Confederate flag can and will have a different meaning to different people.

    Often flags are used to show proud of the nation you love or are born in. Personally I don't believe much in this sort of nationalism, because no one can decide where they are born. Imo it shouldn't matter where you come from, you should only be judged on your own indiviual capabilities.

    I do strongly believe in the personal freedom of the individual, and if you ask me everyone should be able to use a flag of any kind. Imo that should just be a part of freedom of speech.
     
  16. Dark SpOOn Bender

    Dark SpOOn Bender Paramount

    You can choose whether or not you believe the Confederate flag represents, say, racism, but it does have one permanent meaning, a meaning that exists because of WHY it was created in the first place.

    The Confederate flag represents a separated south, the southern states when they broke away from the Union. It only applies to the pre-Civil War South. Therefore, it is obsolete as a symbol for the south because the southern states are now a permanent portion of the U.S.A.

    If you display it for "Southern pride" then you should find another way to display your pride because the flag no longer represents that.
    Do you have the right to display it though? I suppose so, but you are wrong if you think it represents the current South.

    The only other reason to display it is because you think that the southern states should have won the Civil War and should be their own "country."
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2008
  17. Firehawk10590

    Firehawk10590 Never lost a randbat

    It's really the person's choice.

    The flag is just showing pride in their heritage... I guess. There's really no good explanation to putting the flag up in the first place because the Civil War's been over for nearly 150 years.
     
  18. Supergalactic

    Supergalactic Space Case

    This is currently up for debate in my area. On one hand we have people who had ancestors who fought and died in the civil war wanting to show their pride and ancestry. On the other hand there is a lot of racial tension here and there was recently a huge issue at a school when a student hung up a confederate flag and a noose from a tree because they didn't want this group of black kids hanging out underneath it. After that incident symbols of the confederate flag were punishable by the principal (having shirts taken away, getting a detention because it was on their car etc.).

    Personally I don't mind if someone has the confederate flag or a symbol of it anywhere as long as it's not meant in a nasty way. The problem is that it's not possible for me to just know how the person meant it to be seen, so, /:
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2008
  19. SlipKnoT

    SlipKnoT Well-Known Member

    Hanging a confederate flag. Far from PC, but whatever, it's one's right. I have relatives that live in Mississippi, Texas, and Florida, and quite a few of them do have confederate flags somewhere. Their clothing, their car, even their MySpace profiles. I don't agree with it, personally I'm no fan of the south, and I see the flag as a symbol of a time in America when things just weren't right. A time when slavery was legal, certain people couldn't vote, and when others couldn't even marry simply because of race. It's their right, and while you may not support it, I suppose it wouldn't be fair to tell them they can't.
     
  20. superluis5

    superluis5 Paraguayan Trainer

    Everyone should have the same rights! that is um... right
     

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