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The Curtain Rises! The Masters Tournament!! (1204)

Aryash Bajaj

Say I'm fat again!
Exactly lol and doesn’t it also heal the opponents pokemon too if they use grass types?

Since Leon wasn’t expecting Chesnaught, using Rillabooms grassy terrain to try getting in passive healing only to find out Alain’s grass type would get it too would literally make their grass type showdown more even lol.
Grassy terrain heals all grounded pokemon.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
Lillie didn't have much potential for improvement tbh, she just needed her father
In fairness they could’ve gone the games route and have Lillie go on a solo trainer journey for her (which in a way I kinda wished they did in the most recent and probably last of the Alola return episodes when they had the battle royal) now that the Aether family is reunited.

She’s in sorta a weird gray area of stagnation since she spent so much time trying to find her father.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
Yea the peanut gallery will try and defend this with “WELL ITZ ALL ABOUT LEON N ASH” okay well you do realize they could of just had Ash reach the second spot or something along those lines and challenge Leon without a predictable tournament?


Honestly the only thing that’s possibly hopeful is that they decide on not making these matches as predictable as ever and unfortunately since Leon is also in this tournament, Ash isn’t losing the first round and Diantha and Lance are just gonna lose to Leon that only leaves Cynthia and Iris

They should of just excluded Leon from this thing
I wish they made the format a round robin from the beginning so that all of the champions fighting each other, a once in a lifetime opportunity, would be given as many unique and interesting matches as possible, taking “what ifs” to the max before giving us the finals.

We saw this in cases like Beyblade Burst giving us the Legends Festival and tag team tourney where different bladers teamed up and battled each other. The same could’ve happened here.
 

Sham

npc
It’s still so weird how Lillie battled the most out of the girls yet they made Lana the battler and to a less extent Mallow and then set her up against Gladion who was definitely making it towards the finals
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
At this point another battle between Ash and Alain in a competition adds absolutely nothing to Ash's character, especially when Ash is already a champion with more recognition than Alain as a conference winner and when Ash-Greninja is not even present.
Ash vs Alain would literally just be to have Alain fed to Ash and purely for the sake of fulfilling the desires of fans with Kalos League PTSD.

Not for it.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
I feel the same way.

I recall someone describing the match very well on another board: Ash looked strong even if in defeat. He was the only opponent who truly made Tobias try harder, even if a little bit

Down to the Fiery Finish

I think Ash never battled Brendan in the opening segment of the movies. He battled Lucas on the beggining of the Giratina movie (I think it was that one)

The one male MC Ash beat was Ethan in the beggining of movie 13 (Zoroark's).
Wasn’t that Cynthia who battled Lucas? I definitely remember Cynthia being in one of the openings for the DP movies (has to be either Giratina or Arceus cuz Rise of Darkrais opening was just legendaries and flashbacks).
 

Fairplay

Well-Known Member
I'm not a huge fan of the echoe sound within the voices (of Alain and Dande) in the stadium. Not sure why the felt the need to add such an effect. I mean yeah, to probably create a wider atmosphere because of the stadium. Still, not very pleasant to the ears.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus is a masterpiece & SV will be too!
This is a very unnecessarily in-depth explanation of a character being reduced to a cheerleader for someone else, when we have known that pre-league Hop believes he can overthrow his brother. In this continuity, Hop's adoration for his brother was left, but his dream to beat him was snuffed out because...because.
Can you PLEASE stop embarassing and outing yourself as someone who hasn't even watched the episode but comes here to talk **** about stuff they don't even know?
Hop LITERALLY states in the episode he wants to overthrow his brother and he will be the one to beat him, that's still there, it's not snuffed out
Bro why do you even come to the episode threads if youre not going to watch the episode and only look at screencaps from serebii (which you yourself once said you do)
This somehow remains the best Charizard showdown to date

tumblr_ob90ftXIHC1r9cclvo2_540.gifv
Man.....say what you will of the CGI recreation of this movie but the Pokemon battles, specifically Charizard vs Charizard was so epic to watch
 

AuraChannelerChris

"The fish..."
I'm not a huge fan of the echoe sound within the voices (of Alain and Dande) in the stadium. Not sure why the felt the need to add such an effect. I mean yeah, to probably create a wider atmosphere because of the stadium. Still, not very pleasant to the ears.
May as well have them use vuvuzelas.
 

GLTSRY

An adventurer renowned for excavating Megastones
The only good thing of this battle, or rather the only part that made sense was that Alain came prepared to stall Leon’s G-Max. His team selection on paper is also good: Chestnaught as the defensive stall, Malamar as the quick mixed attacker and Charizard as the powerhouse.

Next episode we’ll see Lance turning up with a Dragon/Dark Mon against Diantha of all people - gotta love these champions
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
In fairness they could’ve gone the games route and have Lillie go on a solo trainer journey for her (which in a way I kinda wished they did in the most recent and probably last of the Alola return episodes when they had the battle royal) now that the Aether family is reunited.

She’s in sorta a weird gray area of stagnation since she spent so much time trying to find her father.
It's weird that the SM girls got zero trainer focus, Lana going after Manaphy was also forgotten about despite how ideal it was for the whole legendary chaser premise of this series, Gladion was the only one who got to use Lillilego, and poor Mallow just got nothing (should have saved Shaymin's leave for this series).

No boosts or evolutions or much Pokemon involvement of any kind. It's especially odd since it felt like the league might have been building up to them tying that loose end, even if it was mostly offscreen like Iris.

It’s still so weird how Lillie battled the most out of the girls yet they made Lana the battler and to a less extent Mallow and then set her up against Gladion who was definitely making it towards the finals
Even weirder since her elimination battle is still arguably the strongest with her actually managing to hold on for a while, while Mallow and Lana just got slaughtered.

I found it a shame they didn't at least set her up as a good supporting battler like USUM, maybe helping Ash's team in some of the big action scenes.
 
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KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
It's weird that the SM girls got zero trainer focus, Lana going after Manaphy was also forgotten about despite how ideal it was for the whole legendary chaser premise of this series, Gladion was the only one who got to use Lillilego, and poor Mallow just got nothing (should have saved Shaymin's leave for this series).

No boosts or evolutions or much Pokemon involvement of any kind. It's especially odd since it felt like the league might have been building up to them tying that loose end, even if it was mostly offscreen like Iris.


Even weirder since her elimination battle is still arguably the strongest with her actually managing to hold on for a while, while Mallow and Lana just got slaughtered.

I found it a shame they didn't at least set her up as a good supporting battler like USUM, maybe helping Ash's team in some of the big action scenes.
That reminds me. You know something else from SM that I personally wished JN could’ve implemented in the series? The Rainbow Rocket post story.

It would’ve been a perfect time to bring this in with all the regions involved.
 

RLC

Well-Known Member
The issue kinda with this is it’s bad enough there is already Ash protected by plot, now it’s both? That makes almost half of these battle completely predictable considering they could of simply removed him and have defend his title against the winner.

Serena didn’t compete against Aria until she beat out the other contestants and got in the finals and it’s not like he hasn’t battled onscreen. It just seems like other Champions are here so so they could get easily beaten when technically they’re all Champions at some level and shouldn’t be complete jobbers at all
Then it would just be Ash and Cynthia being protected by the plot, same difference, like Gladion and Alan were also protected by the plot to be able to face ash if we're being technical. Furthermore, by the nature of stories being artificial, this will happen regardless of how well written a story is, so it doesn't matter really.

The issue, as you've said, is that these trainers are too strong to be treated as jobbers without affecting suspension of disbelief on some level, But this issue wouldn't be fixed by having Leon sitting out imo, it would be by simply making them put up a fight, because while I don't doubt Leon is the strongest undefeated c̶h̶a̶d̶ champion, I find it hard to believe he can just steamroll champion lvl (even E4 lvl) trainers without trying.
 

Sham

npc
Then it would just be Ash and Cynthia being protected by the plot, same difference, like Gladion and Alan were also protected by the plot to be able to face ash if we're being technical. Furthermore, by the nature of stories being artificial, this will happen regardless of how well written a story is, so it doesn't matter really.

The issue, as you've said, is that these trainers are too strong to be treated as jobbers without affecting suspension of disbelief on some level, But this issue wouldn't be fixed by having Leon sitting out imo, it would be by simply making them put up a fight, because while I don't doubt Leon is the strongest undefeated c̶h̶a̶d̶ champion, I find it hard to believe he can just steamroll champion lvl (even E4 lvl) trainers without trying.
The difference is though they’re at least showing Cynthia as tangible. I don’t think Leon being protected by plot is necessarily a bad thing now that you mention it. I guess I’m kinda discussing the unpredictability factor.

And that most likely is because Ash wants to challenge Leon so it’s a given that they’ll be protected by plot. Which is why I’m hoping that they do SOMETHING unexpected even giving us our first tournament tie. The fact that it feels like we all know what is gonna happen just feels off and that something that other leagues had is being lacked even the most terrible like BW
 

charchar56

Active Member
Because Iris defeat #7 in promotion battle. Maybe... this is just speculation:

#9 get the advantage to battle #8 (instead of higher ranked opponent) which means #9 has better chance to get promoted.

#10 have to battle with #7
#11 have to battle with #6

If they win, they will get higher rank, but the risk of failure to get to master 8 tournament is higher.

If this system is in place, that would mean Iris was #10 while Alain was #11 before the promotion battle.
a much simpler explanation for Iris passing Ash is that she ended up battling people with higher ranks than the ones he battled. People act like Ash was way ahead of her when she literally could have entered the hyper class the next day. It was stated in that battle for hyper class episode that she recently joined the WCS (giving the impression it's been a while for Ash) so it seems like she was climbing quickly

I doubt the M8 is battling it out with ultra class peeps aside from whoever is #8 as they're the gateway to the M8. Iris could've ended up battling Flint to get into the M8 and then beat Raihan to move up to #7. Not that complicated
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
Ash had been taking time off to help Goh and Chloe out in their adventures as well. The other seven presumably have been going through the ladder solo, with no "interruptions" from others, unless we're counting the Amazon Sinnoh eps with Cynthia, while Ash will set time aside for his friends no biggie.

Easy to assume if Ash was on his own through this, he'd have hit Top 8 ages ago and would be watching Iris fight Raihan to get in instead.
 

AuraChannelerChris

"The fish..."
Ash had been taking time off to help Goh and Chloe out in their adventures as well. The other seven presumably have been going through the ladder solo, with no "interruptions" from others, unless we're counting the Amazon Sinnoh eps with Cynthia, while Ash will set time aside for his friends no biggie.

Easy to assume if Ash was on his own through this, he'd have hit Top 8 ages ago and would be watching Iris fight Raihan to get in instead.
But the tourney seemed to notify him of his next matches without him asking for matches in the first place, unlike how it was set up in the first 30 episodes.
 
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