The Doctor Who Club v.2

[Northern Lights]

taken me ages to re-join

Why do you like Doctor Who?

I've liked it since it started airing again with Christopher Eccleson, i havn't watched previous Doctor Who episodes, but i did see a Doctor Who film once, with his granddaughter Susan, i believe [dustbin daleks ftw]. I like it because it's so different to the usual programs that show at around that time on the BBC, it's a nice change, plus the plot and idea are usually something of genius, i love trying to guess the ending with the clues they give throughout.

Who's your favourite Doctor?

It used to be David Tennant, he was just so goddamn quirky, fit the role so well, but Matt Smith is doing an excellent job as the Doctor straight after him, it's difficult to choose between the two, for now it's still David, he played emotion so well, but i wouldn't be surprised if, by the end of this series, my fave was Matt, for playing the character haunted by a darker side.

Desired character title?

Do I choose Amy Pond or not. The fact that i love how she was determined to wear a mini skirt throughout has nothing to do with it *cough*. Meh, someone already took K-9. I'd like Amy Pond please =]

 

[vareki]

Okay, Flesh and Stone was very, very awesome.

Spoiler: Spoilered because I like pressing the Spoil button

Okay, so with all the Crack theory going down, the little nibbles that River killed the doctor and the interesting time traveling jacket, I was more interested in the doctors monologue about time.

"Time can be re-written" was the big line for me, and gives me more fodder for my theory on the cracks (Speaking of which, does anyone know the in-universe date for 'The Stolen Earth'?).

And, yes, I have been going over this same thing time and time again, thank you for noticing =)

However, I'll keep it to myself this time.

River killed the doctor, hm? Maybe, maybe not. But, since theres gonna be an evil version of the doctor coming to my television screen in two weeks (Valeyard or no) who will apparently be a little bit alive at the end of the episode, I'm gonna theorise that no, river did not kill the doctor. If she killed anyone, it would be the evil doctor.

OR, and this one is much more bizarre and off the wall, thats the entirely wrong direction.

Spoiler: In fact, so bizarre and off the wall, that it deserves its own spoiler tag. Read at your own risk

My second theory, is that yes, river did kill the doctor. or should I say, the Doctor killed the Doctor. yep, I went there.

This is based entirely on Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone ramblings (Octavian threatening to reveal what river is, River saying to Octavian that his mission is to protect the Doctor at all costs, the whole "Its the doctor, could it ever be that simple?" thing, and some other stuff thats already slipped my mind).

Yeah, this makes even less sense than my earlier proclamation that the Cracks were the bad wolf all over again. But I kinda explained that as I went along. I dont think I'll be explaining this properly, because this is about as far as I've gotten with it

Okay, where was I? Ah yes, time can be re-written. Thats basically my safety net for the bizzarest of bizzare theories that I just thought up. If it does go anywhere, thats what I think is gonna resolve it. Which means that river might just drop out of existence at the end of the series.

Okay, I might just be running out of steam here. I'm starting to forget what I'm thinking...

Anyway, time travelling Jacket: I'm definely gonna say that the doctor did go back to give amy some tips to making time not die. Once again, time can be re-written. The way he said it, The Doctor seems to have just thought of that, so that might just start him re-thinking his rules. If he was still in his Tenth incarantion, he would be going back to catch rose before she fell into that alternate universe like a shot. But now that hes a new person, hes not gonna feel the same way about the girl he fell in love with last time.

But you never know, that might be what happens at some point, who knows.

Okay, the end of my massive pile of Ramblings. who knows, maybe some of it is relevant.

And elyvorg, I unfortuneatly have no clue if that title is confirmed or not, But I think it fits (Especially since on the same page I found that synopsis had a note saying the monsters in the episode were

Spoiler: Dont wont to get some plot points spoiled? Then dont read this! I'm serious

The Daleks and the Cybermen

Now doesn't that seem familiar?

Oh wait just a minute *Goes back to look at the last paragraph of my first spoiler*

Strangely, that page has been removed from the TARDIS wiki. Odd, no?

 

[Night_Walker]

Getting the feeling every Australian Doctor Who fan will be going crazy with waiting til we finally get "Amy's Choice" it sounds like a serious contender for best episode of the series - I mean even the 'next time' trailer is cool.

 

[Crasher]

Before I comment on Amy's Choice, I have another theory. It hit me while I was getting something out of the cupboard. It's good. And possibly right (For once! Har de har).

Also, elyvorg, I love that theory. It could be true, too. Did you see the moments I mentioned?

Spoiler: Theory

Right, the Dream Lord said that Leadwoth is "the village that Time forgot". Alright, it's a passing remark, nothing special... but let's couple it with other things that've been mentioned/happened.

Firstly, all this weirdness with Leadworth. Rory's badge, this business with the clock, etc. etc.

Next, the Time Cracks. The Doctor mentioned that there were two types of Cracks. One that lead to other places (like wormholes), and one that erase people from Time, with only Time Travellers being able to remember them.

What if, this big explosion/bang/whatever that happens on Amy and Rory's wedding day causes the second type to completely erase Leadworth from Time? (I like how we capitilise Time) And then, following on from elyvorg's theory, the Doctor is trying to get Amy to remember... something. That's what I can't figure out.

Spoiler: Amy's Choice

I quite enjoyed this episode. It wasn't as good as I was expecting, but I was really looking forward to it so I think I was building it up to something that wasn't gonna happen.

I have to say, I was incredibly frightened when we saw the dust of all the kids. Has anyone seen the episode Day One of Torchwood Series 1? If you have, you know what I mean. I won't mention what happens in that episode...

Where was the Crack? I didn't expect a Crack during the dream, but maybe after...

I don't really care if the Dream Lord is the Valeyard. I don't remember the Valeyard having so many one-liners, though. I wouldn't mind seeing him again, but the storyline might get old. I can't really see any variations, though.

All in all, nice episode. I don't feel it was as good as the previous six, but still quite good.

 

[Night_Walker]

Just found "Amy's Choice" online so here's a 'just viewed' review:

Spoiler: Time to sleep ... Or are you waking up

Oh wow... that was a brilliant episode.

I thought the pacing was great, the overall writing worked a positive treat and the premise... oh yes, the premise was fantastic

So great to get a really cerebral story, something we don't get a huge deal of these days (in any medium or genre)
And for some really strange reason it almost reminds me of the time warp component of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azakaban (the book version). Perhaps it's because it's got that genuine air of mystery to it but when you look back at it you think "Oooh... Of course!"

"Well you're the Time Lord, let's call me the Dream Lord."
"I'd love to be impressed but, Dream Lord, it's all there in the name isn't it? Spooky, not quite there. And yet, very much, here."
The Dream Lord is definitely one of the best villains we've had since the series regenerated, right up there with the Weeping Angels and The Master.
I really enjoyed how they had him positively revel in his taunting of the Doctor, Amy and Rory - so few of the villains have done that and it's so often the mark of a great villain.
The overall concept behind how he was given form is ingenious, I liked the hints as the Doctor's past and some of the thoughts we don't see, and thank heavens: as we saw at the end, he probably can't really be got rid of (certainly not permanently).

One thing I found really interesting about him;
"Drop it, drop all of it, I know who you are."
"Course you don't."
"Course I do. Don't know how you can be here but there's only one person in the whole universe who hates me as much as you do."
*The Doctor smiles ever so slightly, the Dream Lord smiles.*
Despite all the 'venom' he exuded throughout he actually seemed happy that the Doctor had figured out who he was.

"Notice how helpful the Dream Lord was? Alright there was misinformation, red herrings, malice, oh and I could have done without the limerick. But he was always very keen to make us choose between dream and reality."
Something also intrigues me: why, past malevolence, was he trying to trick them into thinking one dream world was real? What could he have gained if the Doctor hadn't worked it out?

"The Dream Lord has no power over the real world. He was offering us a choice between two dreams."
"How do you know?"
"Because I know who he is."
...
"So that was the Dream Lord, then? Those little speaks?"
"No, no, no. Sorry, wasn't it obvious? The Dream Lord was me. Psychic pollen, it feeds on everything dark inside you, gives it a voice turns it against you. Had enough to go on."
Here's the only weak spot with the concept I can see, and it does have a "well" point to it, is that when the Doctor figured out the Dream Lord was in fact him why didn't he just kill himself, Amy and Rory in the TARDIS and the Dream world?
Course the simple answer is that he indeed suspected who the Dream Lord was but with all the shifting he wasn't certain enough to try it.

Although, for those of us who listen carefully maybe he, the Dream Lord, actually gave it away very early on: "What shall we call me? Hmm, well you're the Time Lord, let's call me the Dream Lord."
I'm just saying...

I loved how Rory felt he and the Doctor were competing for Amy, I think (personally) it's clear that was all in Rory's head lead on by the fact he knows Amy's tried to seduce the Doctor - but it was well done and provided some good moments of comedy.

I definitely enjoyed how torn Amy was throughout the episode before finally realising, in one of those moments were it seems too late to make amends, who she really loves. Was very well set up.

The Aliens in the old people... well what can I say, minimal effort and expense (I'd think) big time reward. They were great supporting players, heck I'd like to see them in reality.

Edit: Oh and of course I loved the following:
*Kicks the TARDIS console angrily to try and get it working* "OW! Never use force, you'll only embarrass yourself... unless you're cross, in which case, go ahead and use force!"
"Don't you have a manual?"
"I threw it into a supernova."
"You threw the manual into a supernova. Why?"
"Because I disagreed with it!"
~ Absolutely Classic

Other then that I don't think I've got much more, so until next time... Tweet Tweet.

~ Televisions in their stomachs. Now that's evolution.

 

[elyvorg]

~.:Northern Lights:.~ Hey there! Good to see you here again. You're in, of course, 'cause that was a nice joining post. Amy Pond is yours. Hope you enjoy joining in the discussion. =D


vareki, I can tell you had fun threading Bad Wolf through your post there. xP As for your off-the-wall theories...

Spoiler: vareki's incredibly off-the-wall theory that deserved its own spoiler tag

Is what you're trying to say here that you think River is the Doctor?

If so, then that's... odd as it may sound, not actually the first time I've heard that theory; I believe I saw it mentioned somewhere with regards to the Library episodes back when they were all we had on River. Either way, though, it is quite an entertainingly out-there theory. xP

Something to think on, though (I'm not precisely trying to disprove your theory here because it's so off-the-wall and unlikely that there's little point in doing so; I'm just generating some discussion) is what Octavian said to River along the lines of "if the Doctor finds out what you are, he'll never help us". Would the Doctor still refuse to help even if he were to find out that River is, in fact, himself?

Also...

Spoiler: The jacket thing

There's obviously some reason the Doctor's come back from his future to talk to Amy in this episode, but I'm not sure I agree that he's doing it with the aim of rewriting time; it seems to me that he's trying his best to keep things intact while he does it. I mean, everything he said to her was extremely vague and cryptic, and I doubt any of it helped Amy survive her upcoming ordeal in the forest any more than if he hadn't said anything to her at all. And when Amy asked him how the crack from her bedroom could be here, he said he didn't know. If this is indeed a future Doctor, he might well have figured it out by then, but he avoided telling Amy that for fear of messing up the timeline and giving his past self information that he's not supposed to know yet. Then there's the fact that he chose a moment to talk to her both when his past self was nowhere nearby and when Amy couldn't actually open her eyes to see that he's wearing a jacket he's not meant to have at that point.

Gah. I probably sound like I'm out to shoot down all your theories or something. >.< I don't mean to; I just see potential for discussion in them that I can't resist leaving undiscussed. D:

I haven't read your bottom spoiler because you say it's extremely, extremely spoilery, but on the subject of confirmed titles, check the bottom of this post.


Crasher - yep, I went and watched those bits of The Eleventh Hour again and saw exactly what you were talking about. I also noticed something else (because, sue me, I sort of ended up watching most of the episode while I was at it)...

Spoiler: From TEH, but could be relevant to the finale, so spoilered for safety

After all the stuff with Prisoner Zero is over and the Doctor runs off in the TARDIS, leaving Amy behind again, we're taken back to Amelia, still sitting in the garden as morning falls, looking incredibly disappointed. Then we hear the TARDIS noise, and Amelia looks up and smiles...

...only for it to switch to fourteen-years-later Amy in her nightie, leading us to assume that the TARDIS noise we just heard was from the Doctor arriving here all along.

But what if Amelia really did hear the TARDIS again that morning? If we link it with the possibly-could-be-the-Doctor shadow seen in her house earlier the night before, maybe it was actually leaving...

As for your theory from Amy's Choice...

Spoiler: The village that time forgot

I don't think that the Dream Lord giving that line should be taken as some kind of deliberate hint at any of the plotty crack stuff that's going on. This is simply because the Dream Lord comes from the Doctor, so he only knows something if the Doctor knows it, and since the Doctor doesn't have a very clear grasp of what's going on with the cracks and stuff at the moment...

That said, I do think you might be onto something with the thought that all this weirdness is somehow centering around Leadworth. I mean, there's the duck pond, the supposed explosion at the wedding, the possibly-intentional discrepancies with badge/clock, etc... That and to have something so huge come from such a tiny little village that no-one's ever heard of would be kind of cool. xP


To veer slightly off the topic of this spoiler, there was unlikely to be a crack in this episode outside of the dreams because all of one scene wasn't a dream, and said scene was entirely inside the TARDIS, so. :/

Night_Walker - whoo, nice to see you found the episode, and nice thoughts on it.

I shall now proceed to ramble in reply to some of the stuff you said. Because this episode really can't be rambled on enough.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

I completely agree with what you said about how fun it is that the Dream Lord absolutely relishes tormenting the Doctor and his friends. He's gone right up there with my favourite Doctor Who villains, too. Well, the fact that he's the Doctor's darker side guarantees that for me, but even if he weren't, I'd probably still have him up there just for how delightful and spot-on all his taunting was.

Despite all the 'venom' he exuded throughout he actually seemed happy that the Doctor had figured out who he was.

True. Although it makes sense - the Dream Lord's taunts are going to hurt the Doctor a lot more when he knows that they're essentially coming from himself, so I'm sure the Dream Lord would be happy about that.

Something also intrigues me: why, past malevolence, was he trying to trick them into thinking one dream world was real? What could he have gained if the Doctor hadn't worked it out?

Hmm. Well, he obviously wanted to give them a choice for whatever reason, and if he wanted to go with the "two deadly dangers" thing then it had to be a choice between two dreams due to his lack of control over reality. But yeah, that doesn't answer the question of why he tried to make the remaining dream seem like reality once they'd "chosen". Maybe he was hoping he could continue to pop in every now and then just to torment them some more? I dunno.

I also wonder exactly why he wanted them to make a choice in the first place. I've seen theories saying that actually the Dream Lord was the part of the Doctor that wanted Amy and Rory to just sort their relationship out already even if he had to hurt them to do it, but I'm not convinced by them because his taunting of Amy always seemed to go along the lines of "you know you prefer the Doctor really". I'm thinking maybe the choices thing was just an elaborate way for the Dream Lord to have as much fun as possible tormenting the three of them by jerking them around like that, and especially to play about with Amy's indecision between the Doctor and Rory. Perhaps.

Here's the only weak spot with the concept I can see, and it does have a "well" point to it, is that when the Doctor figured out the Dream Lord was in fact him why didn't he just kill himself, Amy and Rory in the TARDIS and the Dream world?
Course the simple answer is that he indeed suspected who the Dream Lord was but with all the shifting he wasn't certain enough to try it.

My thought on this matter is that even though the Doctor had figured out who the Dream Lord was, he didn't actually know what he was up to. Like he said, "I've no idea how you can be here"; so he'd managed to work out that the Dream Lord was himself from the hatred and some of the stuff he said, but because he otherwise didn't really know what was going on, he didn't actually figure out what the Dream Lord was trying to do until much later on. We can at least be certain that the Doctor wasn't sure about it for whatever reason until he and Amy "committed suicide", because he warned Amy that this might be reality before they did so.

Although, for those of us who listen carefully maybe he, the Dream Lord, actually gave it away very early on: "What shall we call me? Hmm, well you're the Time Lord, let's call me the Dream Lord."
I'm just saying...

Ooh. I never noticed that; it seems to me that it might be a coincidence that he used that phrasing, but that's well-spotted nonetheless. (Of course, you'd already read other people's thoughts on the episode so you knew even the first time you watched it who the Dream Lord was, so. =P) There's other hints at it, for that matter, such as the tweedy outfit that he first appears in being incredibly similar to the Doctor's (which I remember noticing myself in a picture I saw before the episode aired and assuming that they were going for some kind of deliberate parallel, but never did I think that it would be that deliberate and that parallel) and the fact that the first time we see him in the Leadworth-world he's pretending to be an actual doctor. But I never realised the meaning of any of those things until the reveal at the end of the episode, and then it was so fun going back over the episode and spotting how many indications there were that of course he's the Doctor and there's no way he could ever have been anyone else. =D

The Aliens in the old people... well what can I say, minimal effort and expense (I'd think) big time reward. They were great supporting players, heck I'd like to see them in reality.

Yeah. I didn't really think too much about those myself, what with the Dream Lord being the main antagonist and everything. I have to admit that when I inferred from the trailer that creepy old people were going to be the alien threat in Leadworth, I was dubious, but when it turned out that aliens were using them as hosts, it made sense to me and I was fine with it, so to me they were just sort of there as a stock threat that was needed to move the action in the Leadworth-world along.

But when you think about it, a stock threat was really all they ever were. Notice how the Doctor figures out their motives with them barely having to say anything. It's like this is the sort of thing he's encountered time and time again and is completely used to, which it probably is, because the Dream Lord probably just picked the first thing that came into his - the Doctor's - head to use as a threat that both fit in Leadworth and was feasibly real.

What intrigues me is how the Dream Lord chose something which the Doctor would have no trouble believing for the Leadworth-world, but for the TARDIS-world he used a far more implausible danger that the Doctor thought was impossible (and it seems it really was, for that matter) and had to stretch himself to believe it could be true. Probably just another way of screwing with him by making the world the Doctor doesn't want to be real more plausible than the one he does want.

Uh. Big tangent there. But yeah, I don't suppose I'd mind seeing these, uh... Ednodines (I couldn't even remember their name without looking it up, and I'm still not convinced that's the right spelling D: ) explored in more detail; the eye-in-the-mouth thing was certainly rather freaky. I doubt we will, though. :/

"You threw the manual into a supernova. Why?"
"Because I disagreed with it!"
~ Absolutely Classic

Hee. Gotta love the Doctor's attitude. Disagreeing with official instructions is so him. :3

Next week's episode is looking good. There's preview clips up on the site that give an idea of what's going on early on in it, and according to this week's Radio Times, a lot of the best moments in it are character-related. Which is great news to me; as anyone who reads my rambles can probably tell, my favourite parts tend to be the character moments, so I've basically been promised lots of fun stuff this Saturday. =D That and it's written by Paul Cornell, who wrote the Human Nature two-parter, so. (Edit: Actually, it's not. I somehow managed to misread it every time I saw it mentioned; it's actually by Chris Chibnall, who wrote 42. Silly elyvorg.)


On a different note, we have titles for the final two episodes! Episodes 12 and 13 are called
[spoil]The Pandorica Opens and The Big Bang respectively.[/spoil]
8D They sound all exciting and whee.

-elyvorg/Martha

 

[vareki]

Oh, dont worry about it. Theres no such thing as bad disscussion.

Spoiler: Because its just too wierd to remain un-spoilered

well, I guess if he were to learn that he was already helping out, why would he want to stay? I think that the doctor is scared of things he doesn't understand, and with what Octavian told him and the hints that were being dropped all episode, Finding out that he'd for some reason committed suicide, would make the top of his list of things that would scare him to death.

Although, It would be funny for him (her) to realise it all post regeneration (And it would be his final regeneration too

Spoiler: Fear my spoilers. Filled with Explanation to my Statement.

Whe the Doctor said "I could kiss you" to river after she activated the teleporter, her reply was "maybe when your older.

Therefore, the bulk of river and the doctor's relationship must occur in his twelfth regeneration. Which calls into question why would river even ask what she and the doctor had done so far in Silence in the Library? Unless that occured in the gaps between the TV specials...

As you can see, this keeps moving in and out of Theoretical insanity

) and that he(she) was gonna be messing with him(her)self for the rest of his(her) life. I'd find it funny, at least.

Pronouns hurt me D=

And I dont blame you for not looking at the Spoilers. Because they bring the very definition of Spoilers into question for not being a good enough example. Well, at least when we get there, you can go back and see if I can see the future =P

I like the new titles though ('Enemies of a Time Lord' sounded pretty cool though...)

Spoiler: Further contemplating on the jacket thing

Well, no matter how much his attitude towards it changes, he has some first hand experience into how directly F***ing with time turns out.

But, this might just give them the edge to get out of the problems that are coming. I'm thinking that the alternate doctor lost the final battle, lost amy, lost whatever came out of that whole situation (Rose maybe? Yeah, I know its not gonna happen. I just want Rose to come back! Shes awesome). So hes gonna do his best to fix it, even if it means erasing himself from existance.

I'm getting into the headspace for thinking about time travel =D

Speaking of which, whats the verdict on this seperate, obligatorily spoilered rant

Spoiler: Come on! Its me, of course its spoilered

The previous incarnations of the Doctor have never interfered with the events in the current doctors timeline (If we ignore the Children in need special, and exclude the 'four doctors' movie for reasons I'll get to in a sec), so, is it plausible to think of it like this:

Up until the point that they happen to the doctor, they never happened, never will happen and never could happen.

After they happen to the doctor, they stop existing but for the brief moments the doctor was involved in them. And of course, UNIT or Torchwood would then sweep them under the rug.

But, for this the work, it also means that each doctor has their own specific timeline, which closes after their death.

Perhaps his status as the last timelord sets up an automatic timelock. Without the rest of the Lords and Ladies to control paradoxes, the universe will do its best to bandage the areas that need healing. Which Sorta explains why he interacted with people he knew in previous incarnations, up until the 2005 relaunch (Im ignoring stuff about casting and the like, willing suspension of the disbelief and all)

Okay, back to the thing I was talking about before. wait, what was I talking about before? oh well, If I've forgotten it probably doesn't matter.

I think this is where someone says "Famous Last Words"?

And yes, I did have fun threading Bad Wolf through that last post. Although I feel slightly depressed at how badly I did it this time. I'll lift my game next post, I swear =P

 

[Night_Walker]

Night_Walker - whoo, nice to see you found the episode, and nice thoughts on it.

I simply HAD to see it, couldn't wait a fortnight so I searched and searched til I found it. Thanks, glad to know my thoughts are appreciated

I shall now proceed to ramble in reply to some of the stuff you said. Because this episode really can't be rambled on enough.

Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean - I get the feeling this might turn out to be the dark horse for "favourite episode of the series" - with all the big names returning (Weeping Angels, Daleks, River Song and Silurians) I doubt many of us (even when we saw the trailer) thought it would turn out nearly as well as it did.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

I completely agree with what you said about how fun it is that the Dream Lord absolutely relishes tormenting the Doctor and his friends. He's gone right up there with my favourite Doctor Who villains, too. Well, the fact that he's the Doctor's darker side guarantees that for me, but even if he weren't, I'd probably still have him up there just for how delightful and spot-on all his taunting was.

Spoiler: The Dream Lord

Yep. It was so good cause we rarely see that sort of thing these days, so often it's about physical menace but the Dream Lord was all about psychology, and of course because what he said was not only very close to the mark but he took such obvious relish in saying it.

Not to mention him being the Doctor's dark half really does open up some fun possibilities, plus it was cool seeing how while he did behave differently to the Doctor he still had some of his own quirks and mirror mannerisms.

Gotta say Toby did an absolutely fantastic job with the role.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

True. Although it makes sense - the Dream Lord's taunts are going to hurt the Doctor a lot more when he knows that they're essentially coming from himself, so I'm sure the Dream Lord would be happy about that.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Oh, yes very true that

Also could be that no matter how dark he is he's still part of the Doctor and admires his own intelligence and so he appreciated being recognised for who and what he was so quickly.

Especially after his snide comments about how long it took the Doctor to figure out the TARDIS console was being inferred with (in the TARDIS dream):
"Someone, something is overriding my controls."
"Well, that took a while. Honestly, I'd heard such good things: Last of the Time Lords, the Oncoming Storm... Him in the bowtie."

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Hmm. Well, he obviously wanted to give them a choice for whatever reason, and if he wanted to go with the "two deadly dangers" thing then it had to be a choice between two dreams due to his lack of control over reality. But yeah, that doesn't answer the question of why he tried to make the remaining dream seem like reality once they'd "chosen". Maybe he was hoping he could continue to pop in every now and then just to torment them some more? I dunno.

I also wonder exactly why he wanted them to make a choice in the first place. I've seen theories saying that actually the Dream Lord was the part of the Doctor that wanted Amy and Rory to just sort their relationship out already even if he had to hurt them to do it, but I'm not convinced by them because his taunting of Amy always seemed to go along the lines of "you know you prefer the Doctor really". I'm thinking maybe the choices thing was just an elaborate way for the Dream Lord to have as much fun as possible tormenting the three of them by jerking them around like that, and especially to play about with Amy's indecision between the Doctor and Rory. Perhaps.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Yeah, I just wonder if he'd managed to 'win' (ie keep them trapped) maybe he could have gained control of the Doctor's body? *shrugs*

LOL that's an interesting theory, but yeah I gotta agree he was so obviously having so much fun mucking with all three of them that he wasn't doing anyone any favours.
Not to mention since he's the embodiment of all the 'dark' thoughts within the Doctor all his comments about Amy might have some source within the Doctor, so I find the idea of him helping Amy and Rory even more unlikely.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

My thought on this matter is that even though the Doctor had figured out who the Dream Lord was, he didn't actually know what he was up to. Like he said, "I've no idea how you can be here"; so he'd managed to work out that the Dream Lord was himself from the hatred and some of the stuff he said, but because he otherwise didn't really know what was going on, he didn't actually figure out what the Dream Lord was trying to do until much later on. We can at least be certain that the Doctor wasn't sure about it for whatever reason until he and Amy "committed suicide", because he warned Amy that this might be reality before they did so.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

I suppose so *shrugs*

It would make sense in some ways I suppose.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Ooh. I never noticed that; it seems to me that it might be a coincidence that he used that phrasing, but that's well-spotted nonetheless. (Of course, you'd already read other people's thoughts on the episode so you knew even the first time you watched it who the Dream Lord was, so. =P)

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Well while I did know who/what he was when I went back to it in my second viewing, when I was watching more thoroughly, the line kinda jumped out at me and made me think "Hang on."

It could be a coincidence, but I'd love to think that was the first of the hints as to who he was. They did a great job having him be a "through a mirror darkly" version of the Doctor.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

There's other hints at it, for that matter, such as the tweedy outfit that he first appears in being incredibly similar to the Doctor's (which I remember noticing myself in a picture I saw before the episode aired and assuming that they were going for some kind of deliberate parallel, but never did I think that it would be that deliberate and that parallel) and the fact that the first time we see him in the Leadworth-world he's pretending to be an actual doctor. But I never realised the meaning of any of those things until the reveal at the end of the episode, and then it was so fun going back over the episode and spotting how many indications there were that of course he's the Doctor and there's no way he could ever have been anyone else. =D

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Heh yeah the stuff in Leadworth was pretty good for cluing in:
"Oh this bad. This is very very bad. Look at this x-ray. Your brain is completely see through."
"One reality was always too much for you, Doctor. Take two - and call me in the morning."

Like I said above they did a great job with him. I thought the really clever thing was how they took some of The Doctor's traits and reworked them in the Dream Lord:
If you had any more tawdry quirks, you could open up a tawdry quirk shop! The madcap vehicle, the cockamany hair, the clothes designed by a first year fashion student, I'm surprised you haven't got a little purple space dog just to ram home what an intergalactic wag you are... Where was I?

"Nice look."
"Oh this? No I'm not convinced, bow tie?"
Later:
"Bow ties are cool."

Even some of his posture was reminiscent of the Doctor, curious though that he seems to have chosen to parallel the Eleventh Doctor even though he's drawn forth from the darkness from the Doctor's entire 907 (if not longer) life span and all his incarnations.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Yeah. I didn't really think too much about those myself, what with the Dream Lord being the main antagonist and everything. I have to admit that when I inferred from the trailer that creepy old people were going to be the alien threat in Leadworth, I was dubious, but when it turned out that aliens were using them as hosts, it made sense to me and I was fine with it, so to me they were just sort of there as a stock threat that was needed to move the action in the Leadworth-world along.

But when you think about it, a stock threat was really all they ever were. Notice how the Doctor figures out their motives with them barely having to say anything. It's like this is the sort of thing he's encountered time and time again and is completely used to, which it probably is, because the Dream Lord probably just picked the first thing that came into his - the Doctor's - head to use as a threat that both fit in Leadworth and was feasibly real.

What intrigues me is how the Dream Lord chose something which the Doctor would have no trouble believing for the Leadworth-world, but for the TARDIS-world he used a far more implausible danger that the Doctor thought was impossible (and it seems it really was, for that matter) and had to stretch himself to believe it could be true. Probably just another way of screwing with him by making the world the Doctor doesn't want to be real more plausible than the one he does want.

Uh. Big tangent there. But yeah, I don't suppose I'd mind seeing these, uh... Ednodines (I couldn't even remember their name without looking it up, and I'm still not convinced that's the right spelling D: ) explored in more detail; the eye-in-the-mouth thing was certainly rather freaky. I doubt we will, though. :/

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Well yeah I thought the Eknodines were an awesome 'back up' villain, cause yeah they definitely played a supporting role to the Dream Lord

Hehe yeah I agree with your points about who the Dream Lord tried to make the Leadworth dream seem more likely to be real. Also sorta think maybe he took some pleasure in trying to make the Doctor think being in the TARDIS as a dream cause he knows how close the Doctor is to his TARDIS.

Spoiler: More Amy's Choice

Hee. Gotta love the Doctor's attitude. Disagreeing with official instructions is so him. :3

-elyvorg/Martha

Spoiler: The manual

LOL yeah I know what you mean.

He pry did that right before he tried (and presumably succeeded in) doing something that the manual claimed was impossible. That or he just didn't like being told how to do things
But yeah it totally fits with the Doctor's nature.

It was one seriously fun ep

As for the name of the final eps:
"Ha, the Pandorica... That's a fairytale."
"Aren't we all, Doctor."
So love it when they get into areas like that, since the series has always been a bit of a fairytale.

~ End of the universe, have fun, Bye bye!.

 

[druboyks]

I wonder if anyone names their pokemon after Dr. Who characters? If so which pokemon fit each character? I name my Cresselia after Sarah Jane Smith. I haven't figured out which pokemon fits the Doctor. I am think Absol, because no matter where each goes, a disaster is sure to follow.

 

[Will-powered Spriter]

Nom nom nom

Spoiler: Hungry Earth

Well, that was an alright episode.
But it didn't seem to be that interesting. It was just meh. I reckon the seond part will pick up the pace better.

Anyway, the silurians look a lot more humanoid then the pictures of the older ones, which is a bit odd. Don't they have a third eye or something? I quite like how they pull the last of our kind shtick AGAIN, but this time they're lying, and they get caught out on it. Future Amy and Rory appearing wasa nice touch.

Lastly, why has no-one said "it's bigger on the inside". We've had nothing but subversions for the last two series, and I want the classic line back

 

[elyvorg]

I had a Vespiquen called Reinette in my Diamond. It seemed to fit somehow.

(Seriously, though, druboyks, are you actually watching this series? It's just that you come in here to mention the most random things to do with Doctor Who, but you don't even say anything about the episodes that've been airing. o.o)

Spoiler: vareki's mad theory of madness

So what you're saying is that if River is the Doctor, then she killed her past self? But then how is she still alive to remember it during these episodes? =P Also, there's the utter weirdness of him/her seemingly having a relationship with him/herself. (Then again, you've got the two-headed Aplans with their self-marriages, so you never know. xP)

You also bring up the point that if River were the Doctor, she wouldn't need to ask him how far through his timeline he is each time, because she'd remember. So, uh, yeah.

</ramblings on an impossibly mad theory>

(Incidentally, I remembered where I'd first heard this theory before. It was put forward by none other than David Tennant during the DVD commentary of Silence in the Library, which prompted Steven Moffat, who was doing the commentary with him, to respond with something along the lines of "...so you think that one day you're going to turn into Alex Kingston, meet yourself and think "Nice!"?")

Spoiler: Jackeeet

I still dunno about the Doctor being willing to majorly screw about with his own timeline, but I guess it would be pretty awesome if the final episodes involved him actually losing Amy and then going back through his past to fix things so that he won't. Although, thinking about it, that does seem to go against the usual deal of how you can't just go back in time to fix things if they don't go right the first time. :/

Night_Walker - I'd comment on your comments to my comments on the stuff you said, but I'd probably mostly just be nodding and agreeing with you (that and I've seen another episode now, so my mind's less Amy's-Choice-oriented than it was last week). Although I have to say that I like the idea that the Dream Lord is happy about the Doctor figuring out who he is because he admires the Doctor's intelligence; that hadn't occurred to me, but it certainly does seem like it'd be true.



And speaking of that "another episode"...

Spoiler: The Hungry Earth

I have to admit that this was the usual relatively low-key setup fare for first-in-two-parters compared to what the next part looks like it's going to be, but that's not to say I didn't enjoy it. So many scenes had the Doctor being all magnificent and inspiring and getting everyone to trust him and work together and convincing everyone that there can be a peaceful solution and no-one need die, which I love about him. Except that I can't help but think that things have been set up like this in order to utterly break it down in the second part by having conflict and bloodshed and the humans not being as decent and brilliant as the Doctor would like to believe they are (not that I mind at all; in fact, I'm rather looking forward to the next episode because of this). Certainly, the Doctor thought there were only a dozen or so Silurians. I doubt his peace negotiations are going to go quite so well against a whole civilisation.

I also liked Nasreen quite a bit. She was the one who grew to believe in the Doctor the most, and I like how she got all excited and threw herself into the Doctor's mad world towards the end. Hopefully she'll continue to be awesome next episode. As for the others... Alaya's conviction that one of them is going to kill her worries me, especially as they all do have a reason to want to - even Rory - because they've all lost someone to the Silurians. While I'm on the subject of the characters-of-the-week, Elliot was pretty cool, and his relationship with his dad was adorable in that opening scene (he was reading The Gruffalo! I love The Gruffalo!), so they both better not die.

The writers seem to be playing a game of "What's the most primally terrifying situation we can put Amy Pond into?" this series. Everything that happens to her this episode comes from such basic fears like claustrophobia and being buried alive and ugh. *shudder* Of course, this is one of the reasons why Doctor Who is fun to watch. I rather loved the scene where Amy is pulled down the hole - I knew the Doctor's full reaction to that would be worth seeing. And the way he manages to stay all reassuring and telling Amy to keep calm even though he must be panicking on the inside himself, but then he begins to lose his composure as she slips out of his grasp and awww. It's such a great moment between the two of them. In a desperation-filled, deadly-danger sort of way.

On a random, speculatory note, part of me thinks that Rory putting the wedding ring back into the TARDIS will somehow be important later. It's just that they made a big deal of the scene where he puts it in a slot on the console even though according to Confidential they cut a whole load of nonessential scenes out of the episode for time purposes and I dunno.

Spoiler: Next time!

I'm liking the deal with how this is a pivotal point in history and that things could change drastically depending on what happens here. Also, that stuff I said in my first spoiler about things descending into war and bloodshed - it really looks like that might be the case, or at least, very nearly the case, as the Doctor tries desperately to avoid it. And apparently, all the previous appearances of Silurians have involved the Doctor trying to come to some kind of peaceful solution but ultimately failing, which sounds a lot like how this is shaping up.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Doctor's attempt to negotiate with the Silurians goes, though. He may have sliiiightly underestimated the size of their civilisation, but he's the Doctor, so I'm sure he's still going to try.

I want it to be next week now. :<

-elyvorg/Martha

 

[vareki]

Well, once again, I am here with my Madness to thouroughly en-madden you all with said madness

Spoiler: The Vampires are...

Wolves. no wait, they're fish. I always get those two confused.

Anyway, this just got put on my list of best doctor who episodes. not for the monsters, or the plot, or the Anti-Climax, but for the insight it gives us for the new doctor. He was considering letting the creepy fish things go through with their hastily thrown together evil plan (We shall FLOOD the city! Mwuhaha!), and it was a close call that he didn't. hes not quite in humanities' corner anymore...

Rory was the high point of the episode, definitly. He really called the Doctor out here, and its true. Hes doesn't put people in danger, he makes them a danger to themselves. And he proved it too, when he went back despite the danger of being, well, endangered =/

It also brings the changes in Amy into sharp contrast. He's shocked by how much shes changed, how little she cares about the danger. But, of course, a bit of a snog and that slips his mind. But, you cant really blame him, he's been through a lot of angst about wether Amy still loves him or not, and that sorta dropped off his shoulders.

Some of the Quotes though, just spectacular.

"tell me the entire plan!"

=)

elyvorg, I believe we're setting a pattern. I make up bizzare and out of this world theory that doesn't really make sense, and you get back to me pointing this out. And now, right on schedule, is my rushed and only just thought up (spoilered) elaboration of said craziness.

Spoiler: Baaah! I'm a cow

Okay, this one is simple. If you were a being with a near infinite life span who just came back to life, looked in the mirror not only to find you'd changed gender, but taken on the appearance of the chick you've been in a steady relationship with for a few seasons (Wait, did I say seasons? I meant years. yes of course...). What would you do. Breakdown, or Laugh and go about pulling off the biggest practical joke in the history of existence.

Dunno about you, but I reckon the Doctor would be open to doing something like that =D

Onto point two, in regards to the jacket, I dont think the doctor would see it like that. If it comes down to the universe ending, and losing another companion, I'm not sure if he'd let the rules stop him. Without a doubt, a scene reviewing the moments where the doctor interfered with his past to give himself a better chance, to give amy a better chance to do whatever it is thats going to happen. That would be immensely cool, depending on how its done (So far, we have the Forest, maybe the shadow, perhaps even the drea--wait, thats a new theory of madness! Fantastic!)

And oh boy, Next week is gonna be a pearler. I was intrigued even before seeing the next week thing, but now, hell, I'm tempted to go build me a time machine.

Now thats an idea that deserves some looking into...

 

[Northern Lights]

^ wolf bad = Bad Wolf, do you always do that?

Spoiler: Jackeeet

I still dunno about the Doctor being willing to majorly screw about with his own timeline, but I guess it would be pretty awesome if the final episodes involved him actually losing Amy and then going back through his past to fix things so that he won't. Although, thinking about it, that does seem to go against the usual deal of how you can't just go back in time to fix things if they don't go right the first time. :/

Spoiler: response

Yes, but technically he did go back on his timeline with Rose, watching her father die. She asked if they could try it again because she ran away, and he said he would. We've seen what happens when you do go back on your timeline [not pleasant] but technically it seems as long as you don't leave any imprints of your existence on your previous timeline then you can walk away unscathed, maybe he'll just be REALLY careful.

And speaking of that "another episode"...

Spoiler: Hungry Earth

This episode, again showed another side of the Doctors personality - i feel a bit of despair creeped in, and guilt - he let that boy go and realised a bit too late that it probably wasn't the best thing to do. You could see it on his face. I've noticed that different parts of his personality have shown through in each episode, maybe culminating into a break down for the final episode, though i doubt we'd be shown a Doctor breakdown ... then again David's Doctor had that bit of a tantrum in the last eppy.
The creatures themselves i thought were fantastic, never seen them before so i have no comparision remarks =D - Homo Reptilian, same taxonomy up to the species i presume, which is odd as we descended from Primates, so they descended from Reptiles dinosaurs.
One tribe, my a**

 

[druboyks]

I had a Vespiquen called Reinette in my Diamond. It seemed to fit somehow.

(Seriously, though, druboyks, are you actually watching this series? It's just that you come in here to mention the most random things to do with Doctor Who, but you don't even say anything about the episodes that've been airing. o.o)
-elyvorg/Martha

Actually I am watching episodes, but in response to your question, what is there to say? I sometimes figure out what is going on in the episode before the Doctor, or companions do. Not the entire plot mind you, just some key details. I am currently working on ideas as to what the Pandorica will be. The reason that I don't expostulate on the episodes is due to several facts:
1. My friends hate spoilers, and as such I have been trained not to discuss any ideas. Really, really they do.
2. I prefer to find out things as they go along. When I do have a foreknowledge of something, I usually keep it to myself so as to not reveal the plot to anyone who hates spoilers.
3. Why should I theorise about anything when others are doing such a brilliant job? I enjoy reading some of what others have to say. In other words, what can I say that has not already been said?

Pandorica theories
[spoil] What if the Pandorica is actually Pandora's box? After all, Pandora's box is in fact a myth, a fairytale. Not only that, but Pandora's box is something that fell from the heavens and was created by the Gods. Remind you of anyone/anything? A little blue box that once fell from the heavens, perhaps? "The Pandorica will open and silence will fall," Prisoner Zero. Sounds like the Pandorica is a device that causes silence, and seeing has how the root word is "pan" here, Pan being the Greek god of Chaos, then the device itself may have been created for chaos. What better way to spread chaos then causing silence. Whoever said chaos had to be loud and obtrusive? If all this is in fact true, then it leads one to the two following questions:
1. Who created the Pandorica?
2 Why?
I doubt it is someone we have met before. If it had been made by someone before, then the Doctor would not think it nothing more of a fairytale.
[/spoil]

Riversong's victim
[spoil] The Doctor, duh! Why else would she speak so deeply about anyone else? His death is linked to the Pandorica. However, I am probably wrong in this seeing as how Matt should be around quite a while. Unless he is just a layover for someone else. Why else do you think Chris took the job instead of David?[/spoil]

Is my randomness a problem? If it is...I am not sure what to say. I guess I will leave, if it is a problem. However, just to make sure that there will be no future mix-ups, it would probably be best to mention that in the rules somewhere. Perhaps a "talk only of episodes" clause. Perhaps we can cowork on a 2nd club, calling it the random Dr. Who club, all things Doctor not relating to episode discussions. I think that would be quite lovely. Please note: I am not angry or upset, just trying to help and work on a happy resolution; one that will encompass all. You could make yours episode discussions only, whereas the one I run being the one that covers everything else, from merchandising to fan creations, and such. I enjoy all aspects of fandom, not just episode discussions.

 

[Night_Walker]

Well here are my thoughts about Vampires in Venice. I apologise in advance for it being less detailed then usual (not feeling my best right now):

Spoiler: Venice

"Where are you from?"
"Gallifrey."
"You should be in a museum. *The Doctor laughs* Or in a mausoleum."
The Doctor, once again Matt turns in a fantastic showing going from his near delight at being confronted with 'Vampires' to incredible seriousness and regret as the episode went on.

I'm really enjoying the Eleventh incarnation of the Doctor, I know I've said this before but I think he's really a combination of the Ninth and the Tenth. He has the Tenth's social skills and righteous temper, the Ninth's obvious alien-ness (ie no "domestics") and more obvious sombreness, their shared sense of inappropriate glee when confronted with aliens or the unexpected.

"You know what's dangerous about you?"
I must say Rory is an interesting addition to the TARDIS crew, I like the way he wasn't afraid to challenge, and even reprimand, the Doctor - can't be easy knowing you're challenging a being who powerful aliens like the Atraxi are afraid of yet he's willing to do it.

"You want to do this now?"
And lets not forget the stuff between him and the Doctor and him against Amy about her kissing the Doctor previously.

That said I did find some of his stuff a bit painful in places, such as when he made the cross even after they knew what the 'Vampires' were.

"Long way from Saturnyne, aren't you...Sister of the Water?"
I wasn't really taken by the Saturnynians as villains, but their leader came across really really well. Particularly in terms of her interaction with the Doctor, I especially liked how they never really 'fought' each other - almost fitting since she was playing the part of an aristocrat, like fighting was beneath her.

Still she wasn't smart enough not to challenge the Doctor even though she knew exactly who he was.

Amy again came across really solidly, I've heard some people don't like her (in terms of acting not that she shows too much of her legs - which I really don't mind *wink*) I can't understand that. I think she's been every bit as good as any of the companions we've had since the series re-started, in fact in places she's been better.

The setting came across wonderfully

The silence at the end was AWESOME, so subtly done but SO effective. Really intrigued to learn what it is and how it happened/will happen/has happened.
"Blimey life of a time traveller never knew it could be so complicated!"

Oh yes and finally I loved the little quip from the Doctor:
"Don't want to bump into Casanova, I owe him a chicken."

Well that's pretty much it, can hardly wait to see "Amy's Choice" on TV

Just one thing I want to mutter about again:

Spoiler: River theories

While the implication seems clear she killed the Doctor I again have to say (as I've covered before) that would create continuity headaches based on what we've seen later in her life.

Likewise, I can't quite make the leap to say River is a future incarnation of The Doctor - since she's been reliant on him rather then being able to solve problems by herself.
Taking it a step further I find it even harder to say she's a Time Lady at all, because the Doctor would have sensed it.

Overall, as interesting as it may be, we are simply going to have to wait to see more of how this plays out and how they resolve any issues that pop up.

Well that's it, later guys

~ "It hurts, Doctor. The noise. The noise in my head, Doctor. *Increasingly fast* One two three four, one two three four, one-two-three-four! Stronger then ever before. *Looks pleadingly at the Doctor* Can't you hear it?"

 

[elyvorg]

vareki...

Spoiler: Vampires

...the Doctor was considering letting the fish-vampires go through with their plan and not siding with the humans? I'm intrigued as to how you got that impression. I mean, when he confonted Rosanna for the first time, it seemed like he mostly just wanted to find out more about her and was potentially open to helping her depending on what her plan was - but at the end of that scene, he clearly decided that he's very much not on her side ("You didn't even know Isabella's name."). And then it's in the scene after that that he works out the fish are trying to flood Venice, and he promptly goes about stopping it. So... yeah. :/

I have to admit that, however bizarre and impossible it is, I am amused by the idea that River's whole relationship with the Doctor could just be one huge trans-temporal practical joke on River's part. xP

Next week's episode for you is indeed a "pearler", as you put it. =D If you're into mind-screwy psychological stuff that really gets you thinking, then it'll definitely be one for you.



Northern Lights - about what you said on the possibility of a breakdown for the Doctor in the final episode... I admittedly doubt there'd be one, either (except for maybe on a small scale? who knows what'll happen in those episodes). I also don't think that us seeing a different part of his personality every episode is necessarily culminating towards anything character-wise; it's just that different situations bring out different sides to him (not that that's remotely a bad thing, because it means we get to see lots of different aspects to this great new character and get to know him better and whee 8D).

But that said, if we're talking about breakdowns, there have been moments for the Doctor so far such as him attacking that Dalek, and in Flesh and Stone when Amy's alone with her eyes shut in a forest full of Angels... well, I don't know if "breakdown" is precisely the right term, but I certainly think that something in him must have snapped for him to lash out and seem that furious those times.



druboyks - oh, no; I don't have a problem with the random stuff in and of itself - apologies if I ever came across like that ^^; - and I certainly don't intend to make a rule limiting this club to episode discussion. It's just that most of what's going on in here right now happens to be episode discussion - we're in the middle of a series, after all - so it seemed to me like you were sort of... ignoring the rest of the club, or something like that. Which obviously you weren't; I can see that now. ^^;

It's a shame that you don't want to join in with the discussions, though, as you seem like a perfectly insightful person who'd have a lot of interesting things to say. As for your aversion to mentioning future ideas because of your friends - well, that's what spoiler tags are for. :3 And there's more to watching a series than just speculation, too; give us your thoughts on the episodes that have aired! There's no way that everything you might want to say could have already been mentioned.

Spoiler: Your Pandorica theories

...ooh. I'd noticed the similarity to the name Pandora before, but I'd never considered that the Pandorica might literally be the "Pandora's box" of legend (but now that I think about it, yeah, the Pandorica will "open", so it may well be a box...).

As for who created the Pandorica, well...

Spoiler: Courtesy of the Radio Times's episode guide from way back before episode 1, which gave a quote from each episode along with a brief synopsis, I give you a line from the finale, presumably said by the Doctor

"There was a goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it - one day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world."

...this thing seems to me like it may well be capable of creating a near-mythical box that causes complete silence when opened.

Obviously this is just a hypothetical, as is the assumption that the Pandorica is indeed a box that causes silence, but, yeah.

Also...

Spoiler: Matt should be around for quite a while?

There's no "should" about it. Matt Smith has been confirmed to be doing a Christmas special this year and then a full series in 2011. 8D

Night_Walker - Some fans don't like Amy in terms of acting? That sucks. I mean, I haven't been looking too closely at Karen Gillan's performances - been paying more attention to Matt's for obvious reasons - but from what I can tell, she's a perfectly good actress, especially in episodes like Amy's Choice. D: Silly fans.



Sooo, the Radio Times had a little bit to say about next week's episode, including one thing which I really need to ramble about...

Spoiler: RT

It mentioned stuff like how there's a Silurian elder who wants to achieve peace but he's the only one, that Rory really earns his companion status (whoo!), that it's quite a tearjerking episode overall, etc. Then it said that the title, Cold Blood, could be referring to several things, such as the reptiles themselves, the actions of some of the humans...

...or the Doctor's "impassive" response to a final tragedy.

Which threw me rather a lot, because I'd been expecting the Doctor's reaction to be the very opposite of "impassive" should there be any kind of tragedy, given what the first episode has been building up towards. But, assuming the Radio Times hasn't hugely misinterpreted something, for the Doctor to act cold and uncaring towards a tragedy despite his "no-one dies today" attitude from the first episode and his usual regret at any loss of life? Something big has got to snap for that to happen, and now I really, really want to know what it is. D: It's going to be all interesting and fun and show us another aspect to this Doctor that we haven't seen before, and it's seriously made me even more desperate for it to be Saturday right now than I already was.

Hurry up, Saturday. :<

-elyvorg/Martha

 

[druboyks]

RE: Matt should be around for a while...
[spoil] I live in the states, so I don't know what is being said about him. I only see what is on the streaming site that I use...which is just the episodes themselves. (Not sure if I am not sure if this should be a spoiler or not, just playing it safe here.) [/spoil]

Thanks for the compliment.

Umm I have enjoyed what has been shown.

Riversong
[spoil] I loved River Song's new hair-do. I wish she would have kept it through out her stay. She's always got class, cool, and the new do was really awesome. The dress was great, but the heels...weren't they blue? If so, they don't go with that dress. (Yeah, I am a guy with a sense of fashion. Weird, I know, but then again didn't we dispense with the ideas of weird/normal once we started on our "journeys" with The Doctor?) [/spoil]

 

[harryheart]

Why do you like Doctor Who?
Umm... because I adore Sci-Fi shows in general and my entire family use to watch it when they were younger because it was the hip thing and I use to hear stories of them hiding behind the sofa and occasionally when there were old episodes on tele we would watch them! But yea... I started watching it to hide behind the sofa!

Who's your favourite Doctor?
Ummm........ I do like John Pertwee and also Tom Baker but from the old generation it was definitely John Pertwee and from the newest generation I'm really liking Matt Smith because he is so different from Christopher Elcolstone and also David Tennant because they had set characterisitcs, whereas so far Matt Smith doesn't!

Desired character title?
Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart

Spoiler: 29/05/10 Episode

Well tonights episode was really well shot and I absoloutely loved the whole idea of sharing the planet. I however completely forgot that the Solorian was meant to be killed so that came as a surprise (stupid memory) and so I thought that they were screwed however like them thought they could threaten the Solorians with the drill! The ending - well wasn't that a surprise! I though someone would die because of the first sentence stated about the Docor's loss however I expeected it to be the boy, and so when he didn't and the Solorian Scientist died instead I thought that nothing more would occur, until they began to head back to the TARDIS and things seemed too good to be true. Anyway! The crack in time and space is developing really well and I can't wait for the next few episodes and the climax!

 

[elyvorg]

harryheart: Welcome, you're in; nice joining post. Although, out of curiosity, what do you mean by "set characteristics" for David Tennant and Christopher Eccleston? I don't get you there.

I'm afraid the Brigadier has already been taken. Anyone else you want?


druboyks - don't worry, River's heels are red, not blue.


So. Um.

[Warning: I ramble about a very major event in the first couple of paragraphs of this spoiler. If you don't want the big shock of the episode ruined for you, don't click it.]

Spoiler: Cold Blood

Roryyyy. ;; I loved Rory; he was all adorable and fun and devoted to Amy and stuff. And while I did briefly entertain the notion during speculation that his death might be the "final tragedy" in this episode (that and I hadn't seen any indication that he'd be in the next two episodes), I brushed it off thinking that they wouldn't kill off a companion. D: He was awesome in this episode and all, really showing how great a companion he was by taking charge up top and doing what the Doctor would do even though he doesn't have much of a clue, and being all concerned and desperate to help when Alaya was dying, and he only got shot because he was protecting the Doctor and D: . And his final words were "I'm sorry"! Only Rory would apologise for dying. :<

But naturally the most heartbreaking part is that now he never existed, and Amy has no idea there's anything wrong. At least the Doctor remembers him, but one time traveller who didn't even know him for that long compared to all his family and friends really isn't much consolation for poor Rory. (Also, what the heck was the Radio Times on about with its claims that the Doctor's response was "impassive"? Dragging Amy into the TARDIS like that might have seemed a little cold, but he had to take practicality over sentimentality at that point or she'd have been eaten by the crack, too. Then there were his desperate attempts to get Amy to keep remembering Rory; he clearly cared.) And now this is going to be haunting the Doctor, because he's the only one who knows and because it was sort of his fault; if he hadn't insisted on grabbing a piece of shrapnel (and what a tantalising piece of shrapnel! Much oohing ensued) from the crack, they'd all have gone straight into the TARDIS and been fine.

Although I think/hope that this won't be completely the last we've seen of Rory. The wedding ring is still there, after all - I did wonder if that was significant last episode, even though I didn't think it'd be in such an overarching-plot kind of way - so... (More on this in my speculatory spoiler below.)

The rest of the episode overall was pretty nice, too. I really got into the prospect of humans and Silurians living and working together on the surface and was rooting for it to happen even though I knew it never would once Alaya was killed. I like how Ambrose killing her was never played as cruel or savage or anything like that; it was simply one woman trying to protect her family, scared and desperate and, well, human. (And Alaya was a manipulative ***** for egging her on like that.) It's just a shame that, like the Doctor said, these humans were less than the best they could have been when it came down to it. But it's probably for the best that the alliance never happened - while some humans such as Elliot and Nasreen and Amy may be magnificent, the fact is that despite the Doctor's attempts to convince the Silurians otherwise, most of the humans probably aren't.

Still, roll on a thousand years' time! Because Elliot's going to be awesome and spread the word, and then when they wake up the humans are totally going to have become better people, and then Nasreen can be all epic with helping to integrate the Silurians into the human world (eee for the Doctor convincing ordinary people to be extraordinary!) and Eldane can lead them and they'll all live happily ever after. Totally. Okay, yes, so I know we probably won't ever see the result of a thousand years' time and that it probably won't go that smoothly anyway because humans will be humans and Silurians will be Silurians, but I like to believe it will anyway because the thought is all heartwarming and inspiring and the sort of thing Doctor Who does. =D

I'd also like to do a bit of speculation on the plot-arc-relevant things that happened this episode - separate spoiler because it has little to do with the episode itself, but obviously it'll still contain Cold Blood spoilers, so...

Spoiler: Cracks and explosions

See, at the end of Flesh and Stone it seemed to be implied that this explosion which will happen on Amy's wedding day could somehow be stopped if the Doctor could fix Amy and Rory's relationship and let her get happily married to him without a hitch.

Of course, now that Rory never existed, Amy was never getting married in the first place. What does this mean for the explosion? Could it mean that, since there's no longer a wedding to potentially go wrong, everything's going to be fine? (...yeah, I doubt that one, considering it'd make a huge time paradox.) Or does it mean that since there's no wedding, there's no event which would somehow have stopped the explosion and we're all screwed? I'm going with the latter.

The ring's got to be important somehow, too. It's the last bit of Rory left in existence, so maybe it'll somehow be able to bring him back, or make Amy remember - I gather there's big emotional scenes for Amy in the finalé, and remembering Rory and his death seems like a likely candidate for one.

Also, leading on from my desperate hopes that this somehow isn't the last we've seen of Rory, remember that in the whole-series trailer that showed after The Eleventh Hour, there was a Cyberman? A stumbling, half-dead Cybus Cyberman, but a Cyberman nonetheless - and the point is that the Doctor reckoned the whole deal with the Cyberking back in that Christmas episode must have been erased by the crack. Maybe the stuff that the cracks eat isn't just plain erased but actually ends up somewhere else, someplace which the Doctor and Amy visit in the finale. I dunno.

The piece of TARDIS shrapnel - ouch. Although it does potentially bring new meaning to "the Doctor and the TARDIS doesn't know!".

There's one other thing which might be nothing but which I seem to have convinced myself is hugely important. In Cold Blood when they encounter the crack, we get a brief flashback to the scene in Amelia's bedroom where the Doctor explained what the crack was. Except... the exact wording he uses and the direction in which he runs his fingers along the crack are different in the flashback to how they were in The Eleventh Hour. And with all the timey wimeyness and the rewriting and unwriting of time thanks to this crack, I can't help but wonder if this is significant; like, if the Doctor's exact actions at that point in his past have literally changed so that they were always ever so slightly different. And if this is so, maybe this isn't the only time it's happened. Crack-influenced? The future Doctor messing around with his timeline and somehow managing to inconsequentially change the wording of something he'd already said? Or something else? Who knows.

(And no, this can't just be an editing error, I'm convinced of that. Both are one continuous shot, so there could've been no accidentally cutting the wrong bits together when they added in the flashback. They must have literally filmed two slightly different versions of that line while doing the scene in Amelia's room.)

Spoiler: Next time...

Ooh. The monster in this one looks potentially fun - gotta have a big scary beastie that can smash things around every now and then. =D It'll probably get bonus scariness points from the fact that they can't even see exactly what it is and all. And van Gogh should be an interesting character.

I'm not looking forward to it as desperately as I have some of the other episodes this series or anything, but it should be fun all the same.

-elyvorg/Martha

 

[vareki]

Now, for some two weeks late analyzing of Amy's Choice

Spoiler: Anyone else think that we'll get any past companion cameo's this season (Other than river, of course)

Well, that certainly lived up to my expectations.

Although, even if I hadn't known in advance, I think I might have picked up on the Dream Lord being the doctor. There were just so many hints! "Theres only one thing in the universe who hates me as much that", the dream lord using 'our' when describing companions, the insight that no-one has had into the doctors motives before now.

Although, I guess I was cheating a bit, since I was paying extra special attention to everything the dream lord said.

I dont really have anything to say that hasn't been gone over to death, really D=

Well, I did like the interactions between the Doctor and the Dream Lord. It once again brought up stuff that the doctor doesn't want to face. If he can help it, he doesn't like seeing his old companions again, once they've left the TARDIS for a bit. Back in 'School Reunion' he was perfectly happy to leave Sarah Jane without telling her, although that went down the drain when there was all the recognition. Thats one of the things that he doesn't want to face about himself, so thats one of the things the dream lord was made up of.

Amy's lines were pretty awesome in that regard, with "Why would you ever give up this"

The second big thing I noticed was that Amy had actually made up her mind in regards to who she wants to be with. Even before Rory 'Died'. Like when Amy was in the TARDIS world, and the doctor and rory were in the Leadworth world, she pulled up the poncho for rory, but not on the doctor. Small stuff like that show lots =)

I would like to say that I do not have perfect memory, so any and all discrepencies in regards to quotes are just a result of poor recollection

elyvorg, here be my reasoning

Spoiler: I like going bowling with porcupines in a cup of soup! but only on fridays

well, when you think about similiar situations to the creepy vampire fish trying to take over venice, the doctor has always rushed to humanitie's defense.

But when you look at his face, while he talking to rosanna, its not anger, or determination on his face. Its more like...curiosity

If I still remember it properly, he turns to leave before he asks for Isabella's name. thats when its certain he's got our backs.

before that, it could have gone either way...

And ~.:Northern Lights:.~, I don't always put it in that particular way, but I always put Bad Wolf in my posts somewhere =D

Till next week then