The Doctor Who Club v.4

[Aegon]

That was fantastic. Best Christmas ever.

[SPOIL]There was so much to like. The snowmen were beautifully creepy, brought to life with some perfect special effects. Simeon was a brilliant villain, though I would have liked to have seen more of him. The reference to the Great Intelligence and the London Underground map was very unexpected. I thought it was a brave move, though I can see how it'd go over the heads of some people, since it hasn't appeared since the 60s in The Web of Fear. Vastra, Jenny and Strax were wonderful. I hope Vastra's role as somewhat of an equal to the Doctor is shown again in future episodes, as I loved the scene in the TARDIS with her and the Doctor. Speaking of the TARDIS, the new interior's pretty good. I'm not massively fond of it at the moment, though it looks amazing while in-flight.

Clara and the Doctor were both exceptional. I admired her persistence, though she seemed a little too persistent, don't you think? She adapted suspiciously quickly to the Doctor's life. I wonder if it'll tie in to the mystery of who she is. I have to say, I saw the modern day Clara scene coming as soon as Victorian Clara died, though I really don't know about her true origins (she was born on the 23rd of November, hmm...). I want to see the first episode of the April run so badly now. How will the Doctor approach modern Clara? Will she know him?

It was all so magical. The staircase to the clouds was so awesome, as was the Mary Poppins reference. I am definitely watching this again tomorrow on BBC Three; it was near-perfect. The pacing was great, too; it really felt like an hour of Who, yet it never dragged.[/SPOIL]

The titles are very cool. I love how funky and cheesy they are. I would have preferred a greater influence from the Classic series in the new theme tune, though I guess I'll make do with the warbling-thing (I really don't know what to call it - it's the noise heard right after Matt Smith's name appears. ).

Will-powered Spriter:

[SPOIL]The resolution was a bit iffy, but I felt it worked. I think it makes sense. It was evident that the episode was more about Clara than about the Great Intelligence and its snowmen.[/SPOIL]

-The Eleventh/Rory Williams

 

[elyvorg]

Eee, I really love the new opening sequence! The theme tune is a nice blend of the recent one and the classic ones (or at least what sounds like classic ones to my relatively-untrained ears), and the visuals are stunning and beautiful. I don't even mind the Doctor's-face thing, because it's done subtly enough that it doesn't come across as particularly forced and creepy like I feel the classic versions kind of do. And they even fixed the timing of Matt Smith's name appearing exactly as the main melody kicks in, which I was irrationally disappointed that they changed slightly for the series 7 part 1 version! :3

Meanwhile aaaaaa I loved the episode so much.

Spoiler: The Snowmen

This was basically yet another episode about just how much the Doctor needs a companion and is nothing without one. Have I mentioned that I really love this theme? Because I really love this theme.

Before I even get onto Clara, it was good to be able to gain a better sense than the prequels alone had given of exactly why the Doctor had given up on the world. I was particularly struck by him believing that "the universe doesn't care". He's had his heart broken so many times that he doesn't see the point of saving worlds any more when all he ever seems to get for it is more pain. D: That's a horrible state for him to be in. And he was even outwardly trying to avoid getting another companion, because he knows that if he does he'll eventually lose them and he doesn't want any more heartbreak. I like that Vastra and Jenny (and Strax), despite that they'd had to accept the Doctor's isolation, were still keeping in touch with him and jumping on anything that could have a slight possibility of helping the Doctor out - they'd obviously tried the one-word test on many people before in attempt to pique the Doctor's interest. And it's probably not an accident that it was Strax, rather than Vastra or Jenny, who went to help the Doctor with the memory worm; they'd have known Strax would be likely to mess it up.

So, Clara! Ultimately I don't think there was anything too particularly specific to her that allowed her to have the effect on the Doctor that she had. She simply happened to be perfect companion material: curious, intelligent and very persistent - just the right combination for her to totally ignore the Doctor's repeated attempts to get rid of her and keep coming back. The rest of it seemed to me to be basically the Doctor's own fault. Even when he was trying to act withdrawn and apathetic, he still ended up coming across as ridiculous and amazing to an outside observer - his home in the clouds may have been so he could be removed from the rest of the world, but an invisible staircase leading up into the sky is just so magical. Perhaps the more Clara saw him as that, the more he was willing to gradually open up and be ridiculous and amazing again. Then there were also a couple of coincidences that helped out: Clara was very lucky there happened to be a pond involved, since she couldn't have known the effect that word would have on the Doctor, and she also didn't intend to tell him his bow tie was cool but he totally took it that way and that definitely cheered him up. x3

In the end, though, I think the main reason the Doctor was able to let Clara in even though he'd been shutting out the world was that he seemed to subconsciously want to. Deep down he must have grown tired of constantly being lonely and sad and had a longing for a fresh start and a new companion. He was totally sizing Clara up as potential companion material from the moment he met her, even if consciously he was refusing to admit it and telling himself he didn't want a companion and trying to block her out. I really loved how he found himself engaging with Clara and getting back to his old self without even realising he was doing it - especially the way he'd changed into a bow tie without noticing. :3 (I said his taste in clothes was relevant to his state of mind!) Even more heartwarming than that was the moment when the Doctor finally accepted that he wanted Clara to be his companion and gave her a TARDIS key. There's something so sweet about the way this Doctor forms very deep attachments to certain people very quickly, without ever really consciously choosing to do so. He did it for Amelia way back in The Eleventh Hour, and here we got to see him do it all over again for Clara.

For Clara to then get mortally wounded, immediately after the Doctor had embraced how much she meant to him, is wonderfully cruel. As soon as the Doctor's found something that really matters to him again, it gets torn away - but not only that, he also clearly considers inviting someone to travel with him to be equivalent to putting them under his protection, so he blamed himself for her fate when he might not have done had it happened moments earlier. I really like the way the Doctor has no hesitation in being open about his guilt these days. Then his refusal to admit that Clara was going to die and his "bargain" with the universe that he'd save the Earth if it'd just let Clara survive and come with him is incredibly irrational of him and really goes to show how desperately the Doctor right now needs Clara as his companion to give him hope and keep him going. The way he asked her to come away with him if he saved the world was so adorably vulnerable and heartfelt of him. I really don't know what he'd have done if she'd just died and that had been all there was to it - he said he wouldn't go back to his cloud, but to have his heart broken again so soon after gaining hope...

...so, although I feel that anyone sufficiently curious and intelligent and persistent could have had roughly the same effect on the Doctor as Clara did up until the point that she died, it's a good thing that Clara Oswin Oswald happens to be the one person in the universe who mysteriously won't stay dead, so that the Doctor can find her again. So even though this Clara died, the end result of this episode is still pretty heartwarming compared to how things were at the beginning, because at least the Doctor has found some hope. I highly doubt the reason behind Clara's multiple lives is simply that the universe has finally decided to be nice to the Doctor, however - I'm sure there'll be a much more complex explanation for the whole thing. We'll find out eventually.

But what was I thinking, not expecting any kind of focus on the Clara/Oswin thing this episode? I mean, there still weren't exactly any answers, but there was so much more teasing of that mystery than I'd led myself to assume there'd be. So. I'm guessing that Oswin's full name was actually Clara Oswin Oswald, too, and she was just one of those people who chooses to go by their middle name instead of their first name. I get the sense that both Oswin and Victorian Clara - as well as contemporary Clara whom we'll be meeting in future - are somehow copies of the same woman, the same personality, the same template - something like that - in different times and contexts. Oswin was a genius hacker; Clara, being Victorian, couldn't exactly share that trait, but her intelligence still manifested itself in different ways more appropriate to her time period. However: it would appear that it's Oswin and her Dalek-ness that is somehow the origin of all this. Clara liked making soufflés, like Oswin - but Oswin only liked making them because she was subconsciously a Dalek and her conscious mind was interpreting "Eggs. Stir. Minute." as a desire to make soufflés. Additionally, Clara's last words weren't just the same as Oswin's; they seemed like a copy of Oswin's, since after all, this time, there was no immediate need for the Doctor to run. So the way I'm interpreting all this, something about Oswin being a Dalek and/or the way she died caused copies of her to appear across time and space. Somehow.

Meanwhile, the new TARDIS interior is pretty awesome; I like it a lot. I have no idea if I like it more than I liked Amy's TARDIS, but that's not the point - the point is that it's so different, and I think that's ultimately what makes me happy about it. Plus, it's not bigger on the inside - it's smaller on the outside! Oh, Clara, you are awesome; I have been wanting someone to describe the TARDIS like that for ages now. Because after all, that's really the way she should be described, since the huge beautiful spaceship on the inside is the true her, while the little police box on the outside is nothing but a disguise. A bit like Clara, as the Doctor indicated when he compared her to his ship - she's able to act like a governess, or a barmaid, on the outside, but inside there's clearly so much more to her than that. All in all this was a really clever, interesting take on the obligatory companion-discovers-TARDIS moment. I wonder if contemporary Clara is also going to call it smaller on the outside when she gets her turn to have that moment?

Spoiler: The future

So it turns out we have a different Clara to look forward to than we thought we did! I guess I should have known - the first filming photos of Matt and Jenna showed Clara in contemporary clothes, and while I'd always just sort of shrugged and assumed that Victorian Clara was open to wearing clothes from different periods to her own, it did make me wonder. Then there was the fact that apparently the second half of the series isn't going to be for a while; if Clara had survived and got on board the TARDIS in this episode, then there'd have been a long gap in real life between now and her first trip in the TARDIS while barely any time at all would have passed in-universe, and that very rarely happens these days. So in a way I'm not too surprised about this.

But even if we technically still haven't met the new companion yet, I am really eager for this upcoming series! The Snowmen has given me what I feel is a pretty good sense of just how much Clara is going to mean to the Doctor, and so I'm sure that will be absolutely adorable. At the same time, I don't really know at all what the Doctor is going to mean to Clara, because this is a different version of her that we don't know yet, so I'm really interested to see how that side of their relationship will turn out. This is going to be such a unique take on the usual Doctor-meets-companion thing, because this time, the Doctor is actively seeking Clara out with the intention of inviting her onto the TARDIS before he's even met her, and he's going to be already so attached to her while she's initially not even going to know who he is. (I assume. Victorian Clara didn't know anything about him, so I imagine contemporary Clara won't either.) Plus, I wonder how much he's going to tell her about the fact that he's met her twice before and she died both times? Back with Amy, part of the reason he took her with him was because he'd noticed her lack of parents and wanted to figure out what was going on with her and fix it - but he never told her that until the very last moment. Clara, too, is clearly a puzzle the Doctor can't resist, but I wonder how much of that he'll admit to her. Not that I'll be surprised if he does tell her - recently he's been a lot more honest than he used to be, after all.

Then it'll also be nice to go back to the Doctor being the wonderful, mysterious traveller who can take you anywhere in time and space, since that's how Clara's going to see him, presumably. That's something there hadn't really been a sense of between him and Amy since arguably back in series 5, so I'll enjoy getting more of it now.

And I do believe there was more Vastra, Jenny and Strax in that Coming Soon trailer, which I'm also very excited for. I can just imagine the Doctor dropping in to visit Vastra and being all, "Look! I found Clara!" I'll totally enjoy seeing more of Vastra knowing the Doctor really well and trying to help him out emotionally like she's been doing the previous times she's appeared. Plus she and Jenny are adorable together, and Strax is incredibly amusing. There's so much other cool-looking stuff in that trailer, too. (The Doctor trying to fly a plane, hee! He can barely fly the TARDIS and he's been doing that for a thousand years.)

...Is it really going to be April before the series begins again? D: But I thought Steven Moffat was trying to shift the airing period of the series into winter? Having it in April would be going right back around to where it started.

(Okay so I'm mostly complaining because I don't want to wait that long, not because I'm opposed to keeping the more summerish airing period, but.)

-elyvorg/Amelia

 

[VampirateMace]

The face in the intro is a bit creepy… unsettling...

Spoiler: The Snowmen

I like the new interior, suitably retro for a nostalgic old man. Love the staircase, that was as some of you mentioned, magical.

Theories as to the origin of Clara are running wild in my head… one of the most obvious being ‘Is she the child of the Face of Boe?’ that I’ve been hoping for, since as you may or may not recall he was announced to be pregnant in the background of an episode. And since the Face is Jack, and she is very much like Jack, it seems fitting, though her regeneration (if it can be called that) is nothing like his regeneration (if it also can be called that), so there’s a flaw in that theory. Obviously she’s not a Time Lord, or Human/Time Lord like Melody/River either… Speaking of which, how does River feel about all his other wives, and his companions kissing him?

Elyvorg, your theory makes a lot of sense. If you think of a Dalek, it is a biological machine, machine code can be copied, so then all the little Claras and Oswins out there are copies of her fantasy self.

But then, is Oswin the orginal, or is Clara… or have we not meet the original yet?

Watched Time/Space... the stuff you can get away with when you have a loophole.

 

[Armando Payne]

Quick question concerning the new companion.

Spoiler: Question-y thingy (Not meant to be serious, but if you take it serious, you take it serious.)

Is Clara going to be the Kenny of Dr. Who. As in, is every episode going to end with her dying? Because for a companion, she kinda sucks seeing as she's died twice. That's my only complaint, she's too busy dying to make an impression on me.

 

[VampirateMace]

Quick question concerning the new companion.

Spoiler: Question-y thingy (Not meant to be serious, but if you take it serious, you take it serious.)

Is Clara going to be the Kenny of Dr. Who. As in, is every episode going to end with her dying? Because for a companion, she kinda sucks seeing as she's died twice. That's my only complaint, she's too busy dying to make an impression on me.

I don't know, seems plasible, but that was Rory's thing.

 

[Will-powered Spriter]

Actually, that is something I want to know:

Spoiler: Christmas spoilers

Do you think there's going to be several more Claras or will the series stick with just the one?

 

[VampirateMace]

Spoiler: WPS

They may stick with one for a while, but they'd always have a way out if they write an episode into a corner.

Oh, I wish there were more episodes sooner than April... I'm so excited.

 

[Aegon]

Spoiler: WPS

I think we'll only be seeing one Clara for the most part of the upcoming series (April seems so far away now...). I hope there'll only be one, anyway, since they seem to be individual and somewhat different to each other. It would be difficult for the audience to become attached to Clara if she died every episode and was replaced by a different-but-the-same version.

That's something I'm kind of worried about; I wonder if the modern Clara will be massively similar to the Victorian incarnation Clara. Otherwise, I feel the Christmas special would become quite unimportant and I'd be a teensy bit annoyed that an episode was spent introducing and developing a character that won't actually be a companion. I really don't know why I'm worrying, since that appears ridiculously unlikely now that I've shown how stupid it would be.

...Is it really going to be April before the series begins again? D: But I thought Steven Moffat was trying to shift the airing period of the series into winter? Having it in April would be going right back around to where it started.

Well, fiftieth anniversary specials will be airing throughout the year, it seems, so the rest of the year will be devoted to them. Thinking about it, it'd be somewhat difficult to air a full series in what would be considered autumn/winter. How would they slot fourteen episodes (a series and the Christmas special) into the end of the year? They'd have to start it in August, at the latest.

A trailer for 2013 on BBC One was released yesterday, and unsurprisingly, it features some clips of Series 7 Part 2. And by "clips", I mean two. Still, it's something.

OK, there's definitely something going on between the Doctor and Clara. Someone get River.

 

[THEIRONDONUT]

I am just wondering whether this may be a slight plot hole for the characters? Hear me out. Basically, most (long-term) companions have had a series or two to get used to the TARDIS, the Doctor, and how it all works, with the end of series finales pushing their boundaries a little. But think about this. They're gonna have to make the 50th anniversary episodes HUGE (by indication of my writing XD) and the season will pretty much revolve around this. That means that his latest companion (her name is Clara, right?) will have to get used to stuff pretty quickly, which may make the season, and her entry into the world of the Doctor... lose it's magic, a little? I don't know... PS who else hated that the daleks forgot the doctor!?!?! I thought that killed the whole Daleks.

 

[elyvorg]

[dying a lot] was Rory's thing.

Well, actually, about that...

(This isn't specifically directed at you; this is just something I'd been waiting for an opportunity to talk about for some time now. Don't mind me.)

Everyone acts like Rory's big thing is that he's "died" loads of times. But the thing is, at least up until The Angels Take Manhattan (in which Moffat gleefully saw Rory off the show by killing him three more times), the Doctor, just in his Eleventh incarnation alone, had actually "died" at least as many times as Rory had.

Let's define a "death" as one of two possible situations. Type 1: genuinely does die or at least gets very, very close to it but is later brought back in some way. Type 2: other characters and/or the audience are led to believe that he must have died until it turns out he never did.

So, Rory's apparent deaths:

-Turned to dust by alien-infested old people in Amy's Choice; Type 2, as it turned out to be a dream.
-Killed by a Silurian in Cold Blood then erased by a crack; Type 1.
-The Last Centurion was apparently killed rescuing the Pandorica from a fire in the Blitz; Type 2.
-Shot and put in a body bag by Canton in Day of the Moon; Type 2, although Amy and River were also apparently killed by Canton, so this is hardly Rory's unique tendency to die at work here.
-Drowned in The Curse of the Black Spot and it seemed for a moment that Amy's CPR wasn't going to resuscitate him; Type 1.
-Apparently tortured, driven mad and killed by House in The Doctor's Wife which thankfully turned out to be Amy hallucinating; Type 2.
...and I think that's it. His tendency to die kind of disappears after series 6 part 1.
(If these six are all the deaths we count, and then we add the three from TATM, the last of these being him truly, finally dying, Rory apparently has nine lives. xP)

Meanwhile, for the Doctor's apparent deaths, I count seven, one more than pre-Angels Rory:

-Shot by a Dalek twelve minutes in the future in The Big Bang; turns out he was lying about future-him being dead, so Type 2.
-Flew the Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS and was erased from the universe; Type 1, as he genuinely did die here and was only brought back by Amy.
-If we count The Sarah-Jane Adventures (which we should, because it's canon), then there's his appearance in Death of the Doctor, which is about - well, guess.
-Shot at Lake Silencio at the beginning of series 6; I spent the whole series thinking this was going to be a Type 1 and then it turned out to be a Type 2.
-A Ganger version of him died in The Almost People, which should count, because despite being made of Flesh it was still him, so Type 1 without the coming-back part.
-Poisoned by Melody in Let's Kill Hitler and had pretty much got as far as dying before River decided to bring him back; Type 1, much like Rory's drowning-but-not-quite.
-In the prequel of The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe, is apparently killed in an exploding spaceship; there were no companions around to believe that he was dead, but from the prequel alone it appeared that there was no way out of that and he must have died, so Type 2. Sure, we viewers knew he wasn't actually going to die, but from an in-universe perspective it seemed like he had, so this should still count.

I suppose the reason people don't actively think of the Doctor as dying as much as Rory is because, as he's the main character, we know he definitely can't die on any of these occasions so they don't really register as "deaths" the way they do with Rory, where there was always the chance that maybe this is genuine and they're killing off a companion, as that can sometimes happen. But still - in-universe, where this isn't a fictional work with a main character and in theory anyone can potentially die, the Doctor has appeared to do so just as often as Rory has.

I'm not precisely trying to argue this or anything here, just pointing it out because I find it interesting and not many people seem to have noticed. Though I will say that I would definitely be happy if they kept up the Doctor's tendency of "dying" somewhat often, as that usually results in pretty interesting situations. (By which I mean that the Doctor is adorable when he thinks he's about to die because despite everything he still does fear death.)

Spoiler: Clara

I doubt there will be more than one Clara next half-series. If the Doctor kept finding a new Clara and every time she kept dying within hours of meeting him, I imagine the guilt and the slight twistedness of constantly pushing the ones who died aside and going to find another replacement would take its toll on the Doctor. And I don't think the universe, or rather Steven Moffat, is quite that cruel. Besides which, every time he found a new Clara, she wouldn't know him and we'd have to go through the same new-companion-being-introduced-to-the-Doctor thing every episode, which would get old.

I guess the fact that we know Clara has died twice before will at least add more tension to any scenes where it seems like she could be about to die, because there'll always be that possibility that maybe the writers genuinely would let her die, which we've more or less known they wouldn't do for any other companion.

@The Eleventh, I imagine contemporary Clara probably will be quite similar to Victorian Clara, at least judging by Clara's similarity to Oswin that we've already seen: most of the differences between them can pretty much be accounted for by them belonging in different time periods. But even if the two Claras aren't that incredibly similar, that won't make The Snowmen unimportant. It may not have developed the Clara who'll be the Doctor's new companion, but it certainly developed the Doctor's attachment to Clara and gave him a reason to even go looking for the Clara who will become his companion, and that is definitely not unimportant. The way I see it, this is the least standalone Christmas special yet.

I am just wondering whether this may be a slight plot hole for the characters? Hear me out. Basically, most (long-term) companions have had a series or two to get used to the TARDIS, the Doctor, and how it all works, with the end of series finales pushing their boundaries a little. But think about this. They're gonna have to make the 50th anniversary episodes HUGE (by indication of my writing XD) and the season will pretty much revolve around this. That means that his latest companion (her name is Clara, right?) will have to get used to stuff pretty quickly, which may make the season, and her entry into the world of the Doctor... lose it's magic, a little? I don't know...

I don't think that's anything to worry about. The anniversary specials aren't part of series 7, they're extra episodes coming after series 7 is done. The series itself has eight episodes left to go, which is plenty of time for Clara to grow into a full-fledged companion without it needing to feel rushed. I'd say it's usually only a new companion's first three or so episodes in which they particularly feel like a something of a newbie.

PS who else hated that the daleks forgot the doctor!?!?! I thought that killed the whole Daleks.

I don't see why some people are so bothered about this - if the writers ever need the Daleks back at their full ferocity, they'll find a way to have the Daleks remember the Doctor; it's as simple as that. In the meantime, I for one rather like the plot thread of the Doctor erasing himself from the universe, and it was the Daleks forgetting him that started off all of that.


...so, it really definitely is April-ish? :< Oh well - less than four months to go!

-elyvorg/Amelia

 

[THEIRONDONUT]

Yeah, I guess you''re right, just made me feel a little dead inside. Anyways, john smith out

 

[VampirateMace]

That's fair elyvorg, I never really thought Rory died as often as Kenny myself, that's just how the Blank of Dr. Who Specials billed him. But I think you got it right when you said it doesn't feel like the Doctor is in much danger of dying dying because; he's the main character so if he dies the show's name doesn't make sense, he can regenerate, even if he did die-die Jenny (or is it Genny?) carries all his DNA, and a younger version can always show up (as we've seen). But when Rory died, we were never sure.

I do hope the Daleks make a return, they're so absurd and threatening at the same time.

 

[Becoming]

So for once someone over here got it right; the Christmas special aired here on boxing day! I was in a caravan watching a TV with pretty crappy reception but I somehow managed to watch the whole episode. Although I did have to be still as a weeping angel to not make the TV reception any worse. I only got back from my no-internet holiday a few days ago . . . but whatever, here's stuff.

So firstly, I'm really pissed off at Moffat for pulling that same trick twice. With Oswin I was okay with the fact that he killed her - we were told the new companion appeared at Christmas so it was a bit silly to think Oswin the new companion - but with Clara I was sure that she was going to stick around. Then she was killed. I feel like Moffat is purposely targeting DW's more loyal fans with Clara/Oswin. Think about it. Only someone who knew JLC was gonna play the new companion would get extra attached to Oswin, and only someone who had read that the new companion would appear at Christmas would get extra attached to Clara. Whilst the new companion - whatever name she's going to go by this time - did technically appear in that episode, I'm still very annoyed.

In itself though, I kinda found the episode to be mediocre. I've found that I've never really liked Moffat's Christmas specials that much, for some reason. This one was no exception. Clara was awesome, Strax and Jenny and Vastra (are those the right names, I've forgotten!) were entertaining, and the Doctor's situation was interesting . . . but the plot itself, the snowmen, I found very boring. It was nothing special and, most of all, it didn't feel very Christmas-y to me. It was very plain, I reckon.

I mean it's been a week since of watched the episode (and a week since it's aired, hence the no-spoilers) so everything is not fresh in my brain, but I don't remember it being anything spectacular. Aside from Clara. I remember I loved Clara. And "it's smaller on the outside" ahaha.

So I'm really curious as to how these three (and possibly more) versions of Clara Oswin Oswald work. There's a past, present and future version of this girl. She obviously has some connection to the Doctor, considering her last words were the same each time ("Run you clever boy . . . and remember"). There has to be some link other than that they're the same person. It's not just coincidence that those were her exact last words.

This also brings me to this: is present-day Clara destined to die? Clara and Oswin both did and said the exact same thing as they died. I wouldn't be surprised, not at all, if Clara's last words when she inevitably leaves are "run you clever boy . . . and remember". It just find it strange that the past and future versions of her would die and the present one would outlive them. Something's up and I'm dying to know what it is!

Also, my character title . . . what becomes of it? Right now I've got "Oswin Oswald" but Clara Oswin Oswald and Oswin Oswald are the same person but aren't the same person but are the same person, you know? Do I have a claim on Oswin from AotD or on all thee, or more, incarnations of her?

Another thought: was Oswin's full name Clara Oswin Oswald, and she just used her middle name as her first name? Because judging from Clara's gravestone I think that's the case. I mean present Clara and past Clara go by the name Clara, so they share it, I don't see why Oswin wouldn't share it too.

I just can't with Moffat and his stories.

kjt/Oswin Oswald/Clara Oswin Oswald/present Clara/possible future incarnations/whoever she actually is.

I didn't know what I was getting into picking this character title

EDIT: I completely forgot that I got my username changed! I'm not kjt anymore, I'm Becoming! Er, elyvorg, can you update my character title thingy to show my username change?

Becoming/Oswin Oswald/Clara Oswin Oswald/present Clara/possible future incarnations/whoever she actually is.

 

[MasterGohan]

I had no idea there was a Doctor Who section here! Awesome! That said, here's my join form:

Why do you like Doctor Who?
Doctor Who is my favorite non-Joss Whedon show, easily my 3rd but possibly my 2nd favorite show of all time. (Sorry, but Firefly takes the honor of favorite.) What I love most about it is the writing. The dialogs are always deep and meaningful, not frivolous like in most shows these days. They like to lead the audience to make certain conclusions and it usually works. The plots are always well written as well. I'm more a fan of Davies' work but Moffat is no slouch. The show has definitely gotten more "timey-wimey" on his watch and that's not a bad thing. If anything I have to watch those episodes more to follow them and who doesn't love more Doctor Who! They say that Doctor Who is a kids show and I agree, in a way. When I watch Doctor Who it makes me feel like I'm 8 years old again. I feel that wonder and enjoyment that gets lost as we grow to adulthood and I loose the cynicism that I have when watching other shows and movies. Basically I love that I get so caught up in the emotions and plots that I completely forget to think and rationalize what's happening. It's just a great show to watch no matter how old you are.
Who's your favourite Doctor?
David Tennant. Easily. He was the most fun, I loved the outfit, and he sold everything he said like it was completely real. But more than that, the reason that I love the Tennant years the most, and it took me a while to figure this out, if the families. All of the Doctor's companions had families that grounded the story and always brought it back to Earth. Even the simple fact of the companion going with the Doctor had ramifications and you saw that and felt it. The tension between Rose and Micky as she falls more and more for the Doctor. The subterfuge that Martha's family uses and is used on them to get to the Doctor. The pain and hurt that both Donn'a mother and grandfather go through watching Donna save the universe and then be unable to know about it. Plus the fact that they were all just normal families. Broken, dysfunctional, normal families with normal problems and one very amazing thing in common: David Tennant's 10th Doctor. And the most important thing: he wears Converse All Stars. Nuf Sed!
Desired character title?
Well, upon a cursory glance at the list, it looks as though no one has taken the Doctor yet. I don't know if that's an option but if it is I'd like that. If it isn't an option then I choose as my second option Micky the Idiot. I thought about Ricky his alternate universe twin but Micky the Idiot won out. So if I can't have the Doctor then Micky the Idiot.

Thank you for your consideration. I know I'm the man for the job!

 

[THEIRONDONUT]

I had no idea there was a Doctor Who section here! Awesome! That said, here's my join form:


Who's your favourite Doctor?
David Tennant

I have to agree with you, sorry, just wanted to let you know that i'm of the same mind on everything you said

 

[MasterGohan]

Thank you. I've watched Doctor Who for years (I started watching during the first year of David Tennant ... which probably had something to do with my decision) and have loved from my first episode, and I like Matt Smith as the Doctor, I just don't feel the attachment to Amy and Rory like I did to the previous companions. Matt Smith is a wonderfully eccentric Doctor, which I was worried about, but his companions and some of the stories don't have the weight that they did with Tennant. I always felt like the world really was ending when the Doctor and Rose were in trouble, but lately I don't feel the urgency I used to. Still good though. I watch every episode like an addict. But its good to hear that people feel the same way as I do on a few things.

 

[VampirateMace]

This also brings me to this: is present-day Clara destined to die? Clara and Oswin both did and said the exact same thing as they died. I wouldn't be surprised, not at all, if Clara's last words when she inevitably leaves are "run you clever boy . . . and remember". It just find it strange that the past and future versions of her would die and the present one would outlive them. Something's up and I'm dying to know what it is!

Yes, everybody dies. Even the Doctor is mortal. Even Jack/Boe died died.

I wouldn't think of it as the Present day Clara outliving the Past or Future versions... On one hand, you can't outlive someone if you aren't alive at the same time, and on the other, they're all the same person, and you can't outlive yourself. Also, we don't know her exact age in the Present... What if Victorian Clara is 26, and he goes to recruit 23 yr old Present Clara? He's can do that, he's got a time machine, and it wouldn't have to mean breaking any of the timeline crossing rules.

 

[MasterGohan]

Yes, everybody dies. Even the Doctor is mortal. Even Jack/Boe died died.

I wouldn't think of it as the Present day Clara outliving the Past or Future versions... On one hand, you can't outlive someone if you aren't alive at the same time, and on the other, they're all the same person, and you can't outlive yourself. Also, we don't know her exact age in the Present... What if Victorian Clara is 26, and he goes to recruit 23 yr old Present Clara? He's can do that, he's got a time machine, and it wouldn't have to mean breaking any of the timeline crossing rules.

I really don't think that the Dalek Oswin and the Victorian Oswin are the same. I mean, how could they be? I suppose it could be like with River where the first time we saw her was when she died so we would always know how Oswin will be killed. But then why did she not recognize the Doctor in the future? And how can the same (non-Time Lord) person die multiple times? I think its going to be much more dramatic and convoluted than that. If Steven Moffat has shown us anything its that he really likes to over-think things (not in a bad way) so I think this is going to be a far from simple. I can't wait to find out though.

 

[THEIRONDONUT]

Hmm, I seem to timeline your viewing pattern of doctor who. Remarkable. But I wonder how Oswin could be around the doctor in the asylum without creating some sort of Paradox, as it kinda clashes the timeline... But maybe I'm just overcomplicating things

 

[MasterGohan]

Hmm, I seem to timeline your viewing pattern of doctor who. Remarkable. But I wonder how Oswin could be around the doctor in the asylum without creating some sort of Paradox, as it kinda clashes the timeline... But maybe I'm just overcomplicating things

If they were two different people it solves that problem. But in the spirit of looking at all angles, he didn't cross his own time stream or stop something that had already happened from happening (like with Rose saving her father). Also he didn't actually have contact with Oswin. She was technically already dead as she had already been converted into a Dalek and he never touched her (that I remember; correct me if I'm wrong). And since Past Oswin and Dalek Oswin weren't actually in the same time period (like when the Master ruled earth) and they didn't have contact with each other (like Rose holding herself) then not paradox was created. So they could still potentially be the same person. But I hold that they aren't because future Oswin had no memory of the Doctor.