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The Doctor Who Club v.4

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fitzy909

Just another guy
It seems that the Christmas episode will either answer the arc wide question retaining the Silenc e, or just extend it further. This type of answer can't just be "My name......is Jeff" but has to have some kind of plot that leads to The Doctor, almost presumably, having no choice to answer. But what about that "Silence will fall" line. Maybe the Silence aren't just an alien threat, but a secret society to make sure nobody finds out The Doctor's name! This is all speculation (And if I forgot any major plots that nullify my speculation, just tell me)

All in all though, this Chrismas special is going to be awesome.

~Craig Owens

I know what you mean. You can't give a name to someone like the doctor, because it wouldn't do him justice. there is no name befitting of such a man. I doubt his name will be revealed, but why must it not be known? What would happen if someone knew it? What evil would it unleash?
 

Qmaz246

Disney Trainer
I know what you mean. You can't give a name to someone like the doctor, because it wouldn't do him justice. there is no name befitting of such a man. I doubt his name will be revealed, but why must it not be known? What would happen if someone knew it? What evil would it unleash?

"Silence will fall", maybe that's not just a warning, but a prediction if some sort. And how would The Doctor even have a name? Don't they choose their name when they stare into the time vortex?
 

VampirateMace

Internet Overlord
I pretty sure this refers to his given name, what his parents called him... not his chosen name 'The Doctor'. But to give out his name would ruin a great mystery, and probably wouldn't be a very good move for the series in general. Why do you think we never heard River saying his name on Trenzelore? Because we can't, it ruins everything, like seeing under Cousin It's hair. Am I too dramatic about how bad it would be for him to be named? Unless of course, it really is Dr. John Smith, then we've known all along and nobody gets mad, maybe...
 

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
Okay, for those of you who don't know, the BBC released a bunch of photos for the Christmas Special. These photos, especially numbers 8 and 9, leave me with some questions and theories, which I'll discuss in a spoiler tag.

So, the burning question I have is...who is this woman? She obviously has a connection to the Silence, judging by the fact that she's posing with Silence Soldiers (the uniform, unless I'm mistaken, is the one the soldiers who fought in the Battle at Demon's Run were wearing. I have two theories for Classic Era villains that could turn out to be who she is. She could be a new character, which I can't theorize about. But hear me out on the other two.

First off, The Rani. Renegade Time Lord (I use Time Lord as a gender-neutral term), and mad scientist. First off, the woman in question has a similar appearance to the Rani. But also, she was banished from Gallifrey, meaning she wasn't present when it was hidden by the Doctor. She wouldn't know where her home had gone (granted, being banished, she probably wouldn't try to return, so maybe she heard rumors of its disappearance), and with her skills in genetic engineering, would be capable of creating the Silence creatures, and has been known to manipulate entire populations in her best interests. While she isn't outright evil, she's apathetic and amoral, and will do anything to get her experiments done. She caused Six to regenerate in an episode called "TIME and the Rani" (the Christmas special being titled Time of the Doctor). It does fit her M.O. to manipulate people and create genetic beings to attain her goal, whether it be finding Gallifrey or something else. The Headless Monks probably aren't above her ability, and getting a new cycle from another Time Lord would be a good way to get extra regenerations, which Moffat has now established the Doctor needs (since Ten regenerated into himself, they ARE counting that).

Though my second theory is possibly stronger, especially after some things I realized in the process of typing this very post. I believe "The Curse of Fenric" has been mentioned in this thread before, yes? Well, Fenric's M.O. DEFINITELY fits the events of the past three years. Spoilers for CoF follow, so don't read if you don't want it spoiled.

Anyway, we know from CoF that Fenric used Ace by manipulating her entire life from before she was even born to create the events that led her to meet the Doctor and ultimately be present when it arose. Using her, it was able to defeat the Doctor in a chess game, ultimately gaining its freedom (well, in a sense). Though it seemed to be killed by The Ancient One, we know Fenric's not easy to kill, so it's likely only its host was killed. Who's to say that Fenric would only possess men? It could have taken female form, no problem. But there are a few points that make it especially viable that Fenric has returned:
  • As stated, sublte manipulation of entire societies is its calling card. Creating and/or using the Silence to do it? Not unlikely. Especially since that's what the Silence do...they can, as shown when they caused their own demise on Earth, tell people to do something then the idea will remain in their subconscious after they forget they saw the Silence.
  • The woman who gave Clara the TARDIS's number. We assumed it was Rose, but after the 50th, we can assume that's out. What if Fenric needed the Doctor on Trenzalore, but knew that the Great Intelligence was trying to enter his timestream and kill him. It would make sure Clara was there to save him. Or Clara's a part of its plan on Trenzalore, same as it did to Ace. Or both.
  • In both of Fenric's major classic appearances (a novel, then CoF), Fenric and the Doctor engaged in a game of chess. In the novel, the Doctor used a game of chess to weaken and seal Fenric. Then, in CoF, Fenric defeats the Doctor in that game using Ace's un-witting help. Notice how the Doctor beat the Cybermen in their latest episode...by beating his possessed self at chess. It could have been a subtle reference, or it could be foreshadowing, there's no way to tell.

There are a lot of possibilities. For all we know, there's ANOTHER renegade Time Lord who's being newly introduced, or she's just a random new character. Though it's not like Moffat to just do that. He usually has some devious plan in store, and we all know he does have something planned, that he's been planning since 11's first episode.

EDIT: Ignore that...unless what I just learned can be factored in:
The woman's name is Tasha Lem and is a person from the Doctor's past. I suppose it's possible she's either the Rani's cover name or Fenric's host? All we know is that the Doctor has met her before, but we haven't seen her in the new series. That could mean anything. Moffat could be introducing a new character to be part of the Doctor's past, or she's someone we've seen before in Classic Who under a different name.
 
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Why do you like Doctor Who?
This one's a toughy. Why do I like it alone? Well, I don't really know. It's kind of like asking "What does a dog mean when it barks?". Everybody knows a dog barks, but not very many people know why.Sorry this is such a bad comparison, I suck at these things. :/ I guess its just cause it's really nifty and fun. Compared to other shows, well because its different. There's no other show like it out there, and that makes it fun. Plus, one thing that bothers me with other shows is the continuity. They don't keep it. But Doctor Who does. That's what make it cool. The episodes are connected; they have to be. I just love it. :D
Who's your favourite Doctor?
The tenth. Tennant. He was just... fun! He worked well with his companion. He's how I picture the Doctor. The way he jumped between bubbly and fun, and serious. It was great! I miss him! Plus, his voice was perfect. Ah, Tennant...
Desired character title?
Ummm, ummm, ummmm.......
 
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Qmaz246

Disney Trainer
Okay, for those of you who don't know, the BBC released a bunch of photos for the Christmas Special. These photos, especially numbers 8 and 9, leave me with some questions and theories, which I'll discuss in a spoiler tag.

So, the burning question I have is...who is this woman? She obviously has a connection to the Silence, judging by the fact that she's posing with Silence Soldiers (the uniform, unless I'm mistaken, is the one the soldiers who fought in the Battle at Demon's Run were wearing. I have two theories for Classic Era villains that could turn out to be who she is. She could be a new character, which I can't theorize about. But hear me out on the other two.

First off, The Rani. Renegade Time Lord (I use Time Lord as a gender-neutral term), and mad scientist. First off, the woman in question has a similar appearance to the Rani. But also, she was banished from Gallifrey, meaning she wasn't present when it was hidden by the Doctor. She wouldn't know where her home had gone (granted, being banished, she probably wouldn't try to return, so maybe she heard rumors of its disappearance), and with her skills in genetic engineering, would be capable of creating the Silence creatures, and has been known to manipulate entire populations in her best interests. While she isn't outright evil, she's apathetic and amoral, and will do anything to get her experiments done. She caused Six to regenerate in an episode called "TIME and the Rani" (the Christmas special being titled Time of the Doctor). It does fit her M.O. to manipulate people and create genetic beings to attain her goal, whether it be finding Gallifrey or something else. The Headless Monks probably aren't above her ability, and getting a new cycle from another Time Lord would be a good way to get extra regenerations, which Moffat has now established the Doctor needs (since Ten regenerated into himself, they ARE counting that).

Though my second theory is possibly stronger, especially after some things I realized in the process of typing this very post. I believe "The Curse of Fenric" has been mentioned in this thread before, yes? Well, Fenric's M.O. DEFINITELY fits the events of the past three years. Spoilers for CoF follow, so don't read if you don't want it spoiled.

Anyway, we know from CoF that Fenric used Ace by manipulating her entire life from before she was even born to create the events that led her to meet the Doctor and ultimately be present when it arose. Using her, it was able to defeat the Doctor in a chess game, ultimately gaining its freedom (well, in a sense). Though it seemed to be killed by The Ancient One, we know Fenric's not easy to kill, so it's likely only its host was killed. Who's to say that Fenric would only possess men? It could have taken female form, no problem. But there are a few points that make it especially viable that Fenric has returned:
  • As stated, sublte manipulation of entire societies is its calling card. Creating and/or using the Silence to do it? Not unlikely. Especially since that's what the Silence do...they can, as shown when they caused their own demise on Earth, tell people to do something then the idea will remain in their subconscious after they forget they saw the Silence.
  • The woman who gave Clara the TARDIS's number. We assumed it was Rose, but after the 50th, we can assume that's out. What if Fenric needed the Doctor on Trenzalore, but knew that the Great Intelligence was trying to enter his timestream and kill him. It would make sure Clara was there to save him. Or Clara's a part of its plan on Trenzalore, same as it did to Ace. Or both.
  • In both of Fenric's major classic appearances (a novel, then CoF), Fenric and the Doctor engaged in a game of chess. In the novel, the Doctor used a game of chess to weaken and seal Fenric. Then, in CoF, Fenric defeats the Doctor in that game using Ace's un-witting help. Notice how the Doctor beat the Cybermen in their latest episode...by beating his possessed self at chess. It could have been a subtle reference, or it could be foreshadowing, there's no way to tell.

There are a lot of possibilities. For all we know, there's ANOTHER renegade Time Lord who's being newly introduced, or she's just a random new character. Though it's not like Moffat to just do that. He usually has some devious plan in store, and we all know he does have something planned, that he's been planning since 11's first episode.

EDIT: Ignore that...unless what I just learned can be factored in:
The woman's name is Tasha Lem and is a person from the Doctor's past. I suppose it's possible she's either the Rani's cover name or Fenric's host? All we know is that the Doctor has met her before, but we haven't seen her in the new series. That could mean anything. Moffat could be introducing a new character to be part of the Doctor's past, or she's someone we've seen before in Classic Who under a different name.

Ok, so if your theory is somewhat true, how do the Cybermen and Dalek fit into the episode. Maybe if it is this past character that has relations with The Doctor, maybe she wants revenge. Idk much about Rani or Fenric (Still trying to see before 9th Doctor, no luck) but it seems like The Doctor defeated either of them, and she/it is back for more.

~Craig
 

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
Ok, so if your theory is somewhat true, how do the Cybermen and Dalek fit into the episode. Maybe if it is this past character that has relations with The Doctor, maybe she wants revenge. Idk much about Rani or Fenric (Still trying to see before 9th Doctor, no luck) but it seems like The Doctor defeated either of them, and she/it is back for more.

~Craig

The synopsis says that the Doctor, as well as all of his enemies, are following a mysterious signal. From the images, we know that Tasha Lem has an important role to the Silence (she's addressing a crowd flanked by Silence soldiers, the emblem is the same as they had in A Good Man Goes to War. I noticed in AGMGtW as well that they said that they were showing the monks with divine permission from "the papal mainframe herself"...HERself...could be our Tasha.

As for relating her to the Rani/Fenric, the more evidence I see, the more it seems like Fenric is unlikely, but I'm not the only one who suspects a return of the Rani. There are a lot of sound arguments. First off, Moffat said that Tasha Lem is from the Doctor's past. Logic would dictate that he wouldn't use this chance to just plop in a new character. He's had this planned out from day one, and it's 11's final episode. It's safe to assume he's planning a major return. Another theory is that it's the Master, having regenerated into a woman, which is also possible (the fandom had a sadly negative reaction to the idea of the Doctor doing the same, so maybe they're gambling that people will care less if the Master does it?). Also, the Rani being a master of genetics would explain a lot of things. Where the Silence creatures came from, and how the Headless Monks can exist, since they're walking corpses...reanimation of the dead is probably not above her skill level.

To open discussion, there are a lot of other names I've seen being linked to Tasha Lem. Some people think she's a younger Madame Kovarian (which I find unlikely, since her story met a shocking end *giggles*...and plus, the actors playing Lem and Kovarian are only three years apart in age), and some people think it could be Romana (apparently it was established that she WAS Lord President until the Time Lords resurrected Rassilon, after which she was unceremoniously booted...that WOULD make a person angry, and her third incarnation was known to be brutal, if I remember correctly), or even Susan (unlikely, but it WOULD make a good homage). Also, someone made the eerie observation that Orla Brady, the actor playing Tasha looks like she could be the daughter of Matt Smith and Alex Kingston (River Song)...we don't know that they didn't have kids...one hell of a way to meet your dad, forcing him to regenerate, eh (yeah, I don't think that's gonna happen, but it IS a hilarious mental image)
 

elyvorg

somewhat backwards.
Minedreigon: Welcome! I hope you enjoy it here, and feel free to join in with our speculation about the Christmas episode.

River Song! I'm actually surprised no-one has claimed her until now. Well, since you were the first, she's yours.

Dmcrocks: Welcome to you, too. Heh, I guess it could be kinda hard to figure out why you like the show, because why wouldn't anyone? And as I said to another recent joiner, if you like the connectedness of the episodes, do help us speculate, since this upcoming special looks likely to be very connected to past storylines.

I see you noticed River Song was taken and edited your post. Let me know if there's anyone else you'd like.


But what about that "Silence will fall" line. Maybe the Silence aren't just an alien threat, but a secret society to make sure nobody finds out The Doctor's name! This is all speculation (And if I forgot any major plots that nullify my speculation, just tell me)

It was explained in The Wedding of River Song that "Silence will fall when the Question is asked" would be better translated as "Silence must fall when the Question is asked", and that the Silence are desperate to kill the Doctor before he's asked the Question on Trenzalore so that it will never be answered. So, yeah, a secret society to make sure nobody ever finds out the Doctor's name is pretty much exactly what the Silence are, at least as far as we currently know.


Personally I feel that whatever the Doctor's given name is doesn't really matter. Obviously it wouldn't actually be something silly like "Keith", but even so, it's presumably still just a few exotic-sounding syllables. And once we've heard those... well, so what? I for one will still keep calling him the Doctor; it's what everyone has always called him and is the name he chose for himself to describe the kind of person he hoped to be. By now, "the Doctor" is far more meaningfully his name than a bunch of syllables he abandoned centuries ago before he even stole the TARDIS. I'm reluctant for us to ever find out the Doctor's given name not because it would ruin a "great mystery", but because it would be making a big deal out of something that honestly really isn't.

What does matter and is an intriguing mystery is why his given name is apparently so dangerous, not what that name actually is.

...I guess there is a slight chance that his given name could somehow be something more meaningful than just a few exotic syllables, and if that ever turns out to be the case then I take back what I said above, but... I doubt it?


Thanks for linking to those images from the episode, MooseSmuggler. There are certainly quite a few interesting things in them.

Wooden Cybermen. Huh. I guess, in the vein of Nightmare in Silver, they've upgraded to the point that they can build themselves out of anything, just in case there isn't any metal lying around?

Speaking of, the Doctor is lugging around a Cyberman head in quite a few of these shots, making me assume that has to be important somehow. I'm thinking perhaps that head is where he first came by this big mysterious message about Trenzalore?

The big, movie-poster-esque images keep having a clock tower in the background, so that must be important somehow, too.

Then there's shots of the Doctor and Clara wandering through a snowy neighbourhood. I would have assumed that this is just the suburban British neighbourhood where Clara was picked up from her family Christmas dinner. Except, in those shots the Doctor is wearing his outfit from The Snowmen, whereas when he appears at Clara's Christmas dinner (as seen in this BBC Christmas trailer) he's wearing his usual outfit, therefore he changed at some point in between (and I'm still very intrigued as to why), therefore it's presumably not the same place. ...Also there's a wooden Cyberman and some Daleks seen in that place, which is an even bigger indication of it not being Earth, but shush, I'd noticed the outfit thing before the newer pictures were revealed. So I guess this place is somewhere on Trenzalore? Which would point even more towards Trenzalore being the "quiet, backwater planet" mentioned in the synopsis.

That woman, Tasha Lem, is presumably important. I'm not sure I personally want her to be a returning villain such as the Rani, because I feel something entirely new would be more interesting. But I guess we'll see - especially if it's true that she's from the Doctor's past. I do like MooseSmuggler's suggestion that she could be "the woman in the shop" who gave Clara the Doctor's number, since we never did figure that out but that has to be important. (Did people really think it could have been Rose? That would have made basically no sense even before The Day of the Doctor's lack of Rose herself. I personally thought it might have been River, but that was also pretty much disproven as of The Name of the Doctor in which River didn't recognise Clara and had been taken to Darillium a while back, probably before the Doctor even met Clara.)

Also those soldiers behind Tasha Lem in that one image - I agree that they remind me of the ones from Demons Run, but I'm not entirely sure they are the same lot because I don't think they have the same logo (it looked kind of like an octagonal omega symbol).

I love the images of the Doctor wearing a cloak and waving a Dalek eyestalk around like he's a magician and that's his magic wand. In front of an audience of Daleks, no less. I have absolutely no idea what he thinks he's doing there, but I'm certain it will be awesome. (Also, again, outfits! Why did the Doctor decide to wear a cloak for this? I'm sure there must be some kind of fun reason.)


So, as MooseSmuggler mentioned in his spoiler, it would appear confirmed that the Doctor has already run out of regenerations; in addition to the one into the War Doctor that we recently learned of, apparently the aborted regeneration in The Stolen Earth also counted. Here's an official source, in case anyone wants to be sure that this isn't all just fan speculation (because I wasn't sure for a while depsite having heard rumours).

I don't personally feel like this actually changes that much about the Doctor's imminent visit to Trenzalore compared to if he'd still had one left. It was already clear that he outright dies on Trenzalore, and so even if he'd been able to regenerate, apparently he was just going to be killed too quickly before he could start to do so. Then again, maybe the only reason he's supposed to outright die on Trenzalore is because he can't regenerate, and we just didn't know that beforehand. Time travel! It is confusing.

This does at least mean that not only will the Doctor have to find a way to trick out time so that he avoids his death on Trenzalore without causing a paradox with the fact that he supposedly does die there (and leave behind the timestream thingy without which he would not have met Clara) - he'll also have to do so in a way which involves him breaking the rules and procuring himself a new set of regenerations, despite that the Time Lords are currently still lost.

But, Trenzalore aside, knowing that the Eleventh Doctor has actually been unable to regenerate the entire time puts a lot of things from past episodes in a new light, which I find interesting to think about.

There's the time at Lake Silencio where he began to regenerate before being shot one last time - but actually that was the Teselecta putting on a light show for the benefit of the watching companions and Silence who wouldn't have known that he couldn't regenerate and so would have expected to see that. So that remains nicely consistent both with what we thought we knew then and what we actually know now.

Then I can't help but think of the voice interface scene in Let's Kill Hitler, in which the Doctor asks the voice interface "so, basically, better regenerate?", which seems odd if he knew he couldn't - though we can probably put that down to him not thinking straight because he's not really thinking straight for the entirety of that scene. Also interesting is that the voice interface phrases its answer "Regeneration disabled", rather than something like "You have no more regenerations", or maybe "You cannot regenerate", if Steven Moffat wanted to remain more ambiguous. Presumably the poison of the Judas tree actually does disable regeneration, because it'd be silly to try and kill the Doctor with something that doesn't - but "Regeneration disabled" could also perhaps be referring to the external limit put on regenerations by the Time Lords, and it's not so much that they give each Time Lord twelve regenerations to use up, but rather they put some kind of "lock" on every regeneration after the twelfth to disable it from occurring even though it should be able to.

I also wonder about the time on Apalapucia where the Doctor claims that Chen7, the disease that affects two-hearted species, would kill him, "and no regeneration". The implication there is that Chen7 itself disables regeneration, but he words it in a very specific way that doesn't actually link the lack of regenerating to Chen7 and could just as easily mean that he simply couldn't regenerate anyway.

Then his threat to the Cyberplanner of regenerating in order to burn out any Cyber-stuff in his brain could easily have been a massive bluff; he merely "allowed" the Cyberplanner some of his memories on regeneration, so he would have been able to hold back the fact that he'd already used up all twelve.

Regardless of these moments when regeneration itself has been brought up, it's also just quite something to think that the Eleventh Doctor has known he's had no more regenerations left for his entire life. Being him, he'd have tried to ignore it and forget about it (just as he was trying to forget about the War Doctor's very existence), but it'd always have been there in the back of his mind, the knowledge that if he gets himself mortally wounded there is nothing he can do and he will just plain die. It feels very appropriate now that fear of death - outright death, not regeneration - has been such a recurring theme throughout the Eleventh Doctor's run. It's probably that constant lingering fear of his mortality that's made him so especially good at coming up with last-minute jammy escape plans to avoid his seemingly inevitable death. So I guess it's also fitting that its down to this particular incarnation of the Doctor to come up with some last-minute jammy plan to escape this mortality altogether and get himself more regenerations, even though that's supposed to be impossible. If any Doctor can manage that, it's this Doctor.

-16 days left-

-elyvorg/Amelia
 
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MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
Well, the RT is a reliable source. They've been around 90 years I think? They celebrated a major anniversary recently. And Moffat once again confirmed it a couple of days ago, at 11's BFI event. So yeah, he's said it multiple times now, so we can pretty much assume it's legit.

Anyway, we know from accounts of the Time War, as well as from episodes including The Deadly Assassin, that Time Lords can be resurrected and given new cycles. But obviously a single Time Lord can't snap their fingers and give themselves a new cycle. It takes Time Lord science and assistance. From either someone with serious Time Lord know-how or another Time Lord. This makes me ever more suspicious that Tasha Lem is a Time Lord. She would have the ability to give the Doctor a new cycle. Or she has connections to the Sisterhood of Karn.

Speaking of the Sisterhood, as I typed this post, I got curious and looked up what Karn means, if anything. It's an alternative spelling of cairn. Which is a pile of rocks some societies use/used to mark burials. Moffat and his genius, he may have deliberately picked now to bring them back. I mean, 8 could have regenerated into War in any number of methods, so why use the Sisterhood now of all times? What if the Sisterhood turned against the Doctor because of something War did, or because the Time War destroyed their home before War could stop it? Food for thought.
 
I would love to help speculate, hopefully soon. I got into the show in September-ish, and thanks to the internet, I'm up to the episode "Cold Blood" in Series 5 I think. I hope to be caught up by the Christmas special so I can watch it live.

I think I'm going to go with the Face of Boe, if that's okay.

~DMC/Face of Boe
 

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
I would love to help speculate, hopefully soon. I got into the show in September-ish, and thanks to the internet, I'm up to the episode "Cold Blood" in Series 5 I think. I hope to be caught up by the Christmas special so I can watch it live.

I think I'm going to go with the Face of Boe, if that's okay.

~DMC/Face of Boe

The best advice I can give you is pay attention to EVERYTHING. Every little detail could be important. Especially where the Silence are mentioned.

Anyway, I wanted to share, they've released another set of images, which I'll discuss in the spoiler tag below.

So, we get some more images of the menagerie of baddies (Cybermen, Daleks, Weeping Angels, and the Silence), and some new characters who seem to be villagers in this town called Christmas (as I heard from the BBC, it could be a joke, I dunno, but until it's shown with a new name, I'll call it Christmas for easy reference). Not too shabby.

But what interests me are the pictures of the puppet show and the kids' drawings. What is that creature the puppet Doctor is fighting? And it's safe to assume that this village knows of the Doctor, hence how all of these drawings have popped up showing all of 11's adventures. But how do they know of him? Also, Tasha Lem seems a lot less sinister in the image they released of her. Maybe she isn't evil but rather an old friend of the Doctor's? There's really no way to tell. We'll find out in two weeks, I suppose.

EDIT: Look at this image. The painting on the left, the right side of it near the Dalek. WELL THEN, hello buddy!
 
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If it hasn't already been posted, 30-sec trailer for The Time of the Doctor right here:

[video=youtube;njNnTDiLOd4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njNnTDiLOd4[/video]
 

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
So, Orla Brady, the woman playing Tasha Lem, spoke a bit about her role. Here's the article. Be wary, spoilers abound. It doesn't say if she's a new character or a returning Classic person, though, so don't worry about that xD I'll discuss my thoughts in a spoiler.

So at this point, the Rani can be safely ruled out. The Doctor would never specifically seek her out for help. And Romana's probably out as well, since the Doctor wouldn't know if she was on Gallifrey when he sealed it (unless he was able to find out somehow). So at this point, it's likely she's a new character, possibly with connections to the Sisterhood of Karn. Short of a really clever return, that's how it looks to me. We'll find out soon enough.

Though what interests me is that if she's an old friend and ally to the Doctor, what on earth is she doing with Silence soldiers? Either she's a double agent intending to betray either the Doctor or the Silence, or she's leading a faction of the Silence army that turned against the others and is helping the Doctor (that would explain the hats being different).

EDIT: Den of Geek did an interview with Brady. She's mostly human, so Romana's out. It definitely seems like she's a new character. Which in retrospect is probably for the best, assuming they fit her in properly. If they brought Romana back, it might overshadow the fact that the Doctor's regenerating. All I want to see is that they implement her character well, which from the interview seems the case. As long as they don't try to cram her into the Doctor's past and neatly fit her in, I'll be happy. Perhaps she's a descendant of the Sisterhood? Can't rule that out.
 
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elyvorg

somewhat backwards.
Thanks again for linking to more images, MooseSmuggler, especially as those ones haven't been put on the official site yet, which is where I usually look.

...whoa. Those drawings. Indeed: how do the people of this town know all this? They shouldn't even have heard of the Doctor in the first place, let alone know about all his adventures. And it can't just be that they've heard vague stories that have been passed around, either, because there's really specific details in some of those drawings. They must have watched him, as if they're viewers of the show. In a way, they're even better off than us, because those drawings include a bunch of adventures even we haven't seen - although it appears to be specifically the Eleventh Doctor, for some reason. Huh. Consider me intrigued.

I'd imagine that the Punch-and-Judy-style thing going on is also a part of this place's culture for the Doctor's adventures. The bug-eyed monster the puppet Doctor is fighting is probably just a generic representation of all the monsters he's fought. Aaand I get the feeling it might be the Doctor himself performing the show in this instance - in one of the images you can see the top of a head from behind the stage, and it certainly looks like it could be his hair. Well, if he did a Punch and Judy thing last Christmas...

Something about the cast list for the episode has me kind of interested...
Specifically, the fact that it looks like this:
The Doctor - Matt Smith
Clara - Jenna Coleman
The Doctor - Peter Capaldi
...and then all the other characters starting with Tasha Lem. Which implies that Peter Capaldi's Doctor is the third most important character here. Now, I'm pretty sure they didn't do something like this for The End of Time, right? I don't think Matt Smith was even on the cast list they announced before that episode aired.

Therefore, though I could easily be reading too much into this, it seems to be hinting that the Twelfth Doctor will have more of a role in this story than merely a couple of lines post-regeneration at the very end. And perhaps, this time, that's actually a little more feasible than usual, given how the Doctor is supposed to outright die at Trenzalore and is going to be breaking every rule out there in order to end up regenerating instead. Therefore weird timey-wimey stuff could perhaps be going on with the Twelfth Doctor to make him appear in some way before the Eleventh has even regenerated?

I actually have kinda mixed feelings about this prospect if it turns out to be somewhat on the money. On the one hand it will be cool to get to know the Twelfth Doctor a little bit more before he actually properly even comes on board. However, I hope it doesn't focus on the Twelfth too much, because this is the Eleventh Doctor's farewell and he deserves all the focus in the world right now because goddammit he is going to die. (...in the regeneration-feels-like-death sense, at least.)

...on the other hand, going off some stuff in the interviews I link later in this post, maybe I really am just reading something into nothing.

Trailer! Here's a link for it people don't want to watch it embedded in the thread.

The poem at the beginning: apart from it being kind of heartbreaking, what interests me about it is the fact that it's Clara who's saying it, and that it seems she's saying it to the Doctor. Steven Moffat's liked having poem things here and there (Tick Tock Goes the Clock, anyone?), so I'm not at all surprised to see one here, but all of the previous ones have just been about the Doctor, not directly addressed to him. Also, is Clara an English teacher? because perhaps she could have come up with it herself.

The poem specifically talks about the Doctor regenerating, even though he's not supposed to be able to. Therefore presumably it's right near the end of the episode, after the Doctor's done whatever he does to change time and allow himself to regenerate? But it seemingly should also be before he takes his "last bow", which, I imagine, would be what actually causes him to regenerate. Hm.

Also speaking of Clara, yay for her being determined to find a way to change the future and prevent the Doctor's seemingly-inevitable death! She's already been willing to tear herself into a billion pieces for a chance at saving him, so I'm sure she'll do anything she can to protect him here, as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the Doctor not dying at Trenzalore had a lot to do with Clara's input.

The siege of Trenzalore? I wonder if they're actually using the word "siege" correctly here. Sometimes it's misused as basically meaning "battle", but what it actually means is surrounding your enemy, sitting down, and waiting, in the hope of starving them out of hiding. There's obviously going to be plenty of battle, given all the explosions, but I think it'd be interesting to have part of this be a siege, with the Doctor trapped somewhere - maybe that clock tower - knowing that as soon as he shows himself, they'll kill him.

...Especially seeing as there apparently is some kind of trap for the Doctor here at Trenzalore. Hm. Remember when the Doctor boasted that there was one thing you never put in a trap, right near the beginning of his run? Yeah - he never really followed up on that threat, despite being tricked into traps a bunch of times since then. But I can't help but wonder if that might maybe become sort of relevant again here, just because Steven Moffat has clearly been planning this episode for the entirety of the Eleventh Doctor's time.

And wow, judging by the one line of the Doctor's in this trailer, it sounds like he's going to go out with one hell of a bang. Yet, listening to his voice, I get the feeling that he's only being so huge and loud and furious to cover up how terrified he is that he's going to die. Aaaaa. D:

Here are more interviews, including that one with Orla Brady, but also some with Steven and Matt and Jenna, too.
Turns out she's a friend of the Doctor's, someone he turns to for help. I like that! I'd always been automatically assuming that she was an enemy - something about the way she looks, I guess - but I don't mind being wrong. Recently there's been quite a lot of emphasis on the Doctor's friends and the lengths they'll go to for his sake, so I'm happy that there'll be more of that, even if it's with someone we haven't met before. I guess, then, her army of soldiers (who I'm now even more sure are not the ones from Demons Run) are here to protect the Doctor, so it won't just be him against the universe in this upcoming battle on Trenzalore, like I was starting to think it was going to be.

Aaaaa so much stuff is getting revealed about the episode now. Meanwhile I am working through my rewatch of most of the Eleventh Doctor's run and have recently finished series 5, but I will probably save any rambly thoughts for later, when I don't have so much previewy stuff to talk about.


Also, Dmcrocks, yep, the Face of Boe is yours - and oh, I didn't realise you still hadn't caught up with everything yet. I hope you manage to catch up by Christmas, and I certainly hope you enjoy doing so! In the meantime, you might want to stay away from this club to avoid spoilers, because right now the only things we'll hide under spoiler tags are things relating to the upcoming episode, not anything from earlier series. And there are some awesome surprises coming your way that you'll definitely want to experience first-hand. I almost envy you, having all that to see for the first time.

But once you're done and safe from spoilers, do feel free to give your thoughts in here on all of the episodes you watched. It would be especially appropriate right now, as we come to the end of the Eleventh Doctor's run, to hear lots of people's thoughts on all of his past series. (I will contribute to this, too, don't you worry. I already have stuff in mind.)

While I was typing this, I accidentally typoed "the Eleventh Doctor's run" as "the Eleventh Doctor's fun". Most appropriate typo ever.

-13 days left-

-elyvorg/Amelia
 

VampirateMace

Internet Overlord
So, um, on the subject or Regeneration. Or, I'm working this out out loud...

Regular regen limit is 12. Doctor suggests at one point that he could potentially regen as many as 507 times.

With War Doctor included we have 12, (Peter will be 12 by count, 13 by regens). The DotD confirms this.

We should have seen that much coming as the Valeyard occurs between 12 and his last regen. Which means there should be at least 14 doctors! Woo!

I never really bought that Trenzelore was the end either. Having a tomb or monument does not mean you are dead. Lots of people have prepaid resting places, have been honored with monuments, or have faked their deaths. As elyvorg mentioned 11 is supposed to die there since he should be out of regens, but will probably pull a fast one at the end...

Yeah, I don't see him dying anytime soon.
 

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
So, um, on the subject or Regeneration. Or, I'm working this out out loud...

Regular regen limit is 12. Doctor suggests at one point that he could potentially regen as many as 507 times.

With War Doctor included we have 12, (Peter will be 12 by count, 13 by regens). The DotD confirms this.

We should have seen that much coming as the Valeyard occurs between 12 and his last regen. Which means there should be at least 14 doctors! Woo!

I never really bought that Trenzelore was the end either. Having a tomb or monument does not mean you are dead. Lots of people have prepaid resting places, have been honored with monuments, or have faked their deaths. As elyvorg mentioned 11 is supposed to die there since he should be out of regens, but will probably pull a fast one at the end...

Yeah, I don't see him dying anytime soon.

Moffat confirmed that Ten regenerating into himself in Journey's End counted, so 11 is the 13th Incarnation.

On another topic:
The BBC (or BBC America, I think) hinted that the insignia is the same as the ones from Demon's Run, but it's obvious that these guys are either good or being played by Tasha Lem. My guess is that they're a splinter group (or that the evil ones are the splinter). We know that some of the soldiers who fought at Demon's Run actually admired the Doctor (Lorna, anyone?), so maybe those soldiers met Tasha and formed a group to protect the Doctor?

Okay, MAJOR spoilers ahead. Blogtor Who has posted a few snippets from The Doctor Who magazine, including a bit from Moffat about Tasha Lem.

I KNEW IT! I knew when that guy said "the Papal Mainframe herself", that he was referring to Tasha, and I WAS RIGHT. So this begs the question...if Tasha Lem has that high of a position and is working with the Silence, what the HELL is going on? How/why would a friend of the Doctor be part of this organization? Is she infiltrating them? Are they really a splinter group? Oh god, this leaves more questions than it answers xD
 
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Qmaz246

Disney Trainer
I know this isn't a speculation related post, but is this club for Speculation only, or can we post other things, such as videos or pictures we find?
 

VampirateMace

Internet Overlord
Qmar, those things are fine to post, as well as what episodes you've seen and how you feel about them, and about the radio show and books, related articles, and questions! There's even some limited discussion on Torchwood, K9, and Sarah Jane Adventures. Just make sure you follow the spoiler tag guidelines on the first post (I'd prefer all video links be spoiler tagged as well, but that doesn't seem to be the standard).
 

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
I know this isn't a speculation related post, but is this club for Speculation only, or can we post other things, such as videos or pictures we find?

As long as it's Doctor Who related, you're fine, far as I know. Also needs to be able to spark discussion beyond "hey cool!". I think the main reason there's so much speculation going on right now is that the Christmas Special is about to come out, so we're all excited to see what happens and come up with theories about it.

Edit: Here's a video of all 12 of the Doctor's regenerations.
I know this is fan-made and not proof, but once again, Moffat has said that Ten's regeneration into himself did count, and it was included in the video. So basically thanks to RTD's desire to show off and give us an end-series scare at the end of Series 4, we hit the regen limit earlier than we would have otherwise. Unlike some people, I'm willing to trust Moffat to come up with a good way to circumvent the regen limit. And I guess at this point, we can start theorizing how he'll get around it.

Personally, I think he may actually die. My guess is that Tasha Lem or someone else will find a way to resurrect him. I noticed in a still someone took of the trailer that while Clara was running across the battlefield, she was holding a glowing object. Maybe a vial of something that can resurrect the Doctor or give him a new cycle? We know one way or another that he regenerates and doesn't permanently die, even if he does temporarily.

tl;dr version: Tasha Lem, being noted as central to the plot, probably has a trick up her sleeve that she's willing to use to save her friend The Doctor.
 
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Doctorwho2011

League Champion
Hey everyone! I can't believe I just now learned about this group! I'm a huge DW fan and have even seen a lot of the classic episodes!
 
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