• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

The Doctor Who Club v.4

Status
Not open for further replies.

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
Thanks again for linking to more images, MooseSmuggler, especially as those ones haven't been put on the official site yet, which is where I usually look.

...whoa. Those drawings. Indeed: how do the people of this town know all this? They shouldn't even have heard of the Doctor in the first place, let alone know about all his adventures. And it can't just be that they've heard vague stories that have been passed around, either, because there's really specific details in some of those drawings. They must have watched him, as if they're viewers of the show. In a way, they're even better off than us, because those drawings include a bunch of adventures even we haven't seen - although it appears to be specifically the Eleventh Doctor, for some reason. Huh. Consider me intrigued.

I'd imagine that the Punch-and-Judy-style thing going on is also a part of this place's culture for the Doctor's adventures. The bug-eyed monster the puppet Doctor is fighting is probably just a generic representation of all the monsters he's fought. Aaand I get the feeling it might be the Doctor himself performing the show in this instance - in one of the images you can see the top of a head from behind the stage, and it certainly looks like it could be his hair. Well, if he did a Punch and Judy thing last Christmas...

-elyvorg/Amelia

Found it. A Classic-era fanpage on FaceBook posted a picture of one. These things haven't been seen on-screen since the FIRST Doctor. This is one hell of a stunt for the Moff. If anyone tries to claim he isn't a true Doctor Who fan, I'll smack them so hard that their ancestors will feel it in their graves. Because to make a reference like this, after nearly 50 years (it was '66 when the Monoids were introduced), you HAVE to be a damn dedicated fan.

(Oh, and you don't have to call me by my full username if you don't want to. Moose works just fine, it's what everyone calls me xD)

I'm actually gonna delete my post and repost it just because I don't want to double post and what I have to share is EXTREMELY important, read on:

NEW EXTENDED TRAILER
Okay, so Tasha Lem is either actually evil, or a double agent. And it obviously wasn't Eleven who first met her, because she acknowledges that she knows him, but not through his current incarnation. So someone War met?

Also, they showed the scene from the hotel in the God Complex where the Doctor finds "his room". I assumed it was War that was in the room. If not, then WHAT/WHO THE HELL WAS IT? The Silence? Tasha Lem? I feel like my head is gonna explode from this trailer xD
 

elyvorg

somewhat backwards.
Doctorwho2011: Hi! Clearly you're a big fan of the show just judging by your username - however, in order to officially join, could you read the first post and fill in the joining form, please?


The Papal Mainframe? Huh, well, that's neat, and very interesting. The Headless Monks definitely did not appear to be on the Doctor's side during A Good Man Goes to War. Though, that said, given that the Doctor infiltrated Demons Run by impersonating a Headless Monk, and that it being a capital crime to try and look under a Monk's hood was very useful for the Doctor's plan to disable Colonel Manton's soldiers... maybe it's not so strange to think that the person in charge of the Monks was on the Doctor's side and could have sort of arranged some of this? Maybe. The Monks did still kill Lorna and almost kill Strax in the final battle in that episode, though, so.

Oh, BBC America trailers! Always a little more revealing than the regular BBC trailers, but in some ways that's why I love them so. Thank you very much for posting about it, Moose. I imagine I would have checked BBC America's Youtube channel sooner or later myself, but this is sooner!

(Though I think it might possibly be against the rules to do the repost-edit-bump thing you did. If a similar situation ever arises in future, what you could always do is PM me with whatever new stuff you've found and ask me to make a post with my thoughts about it - because with something like this trailer, I'm inevitably going to have thoughts about it - so that you can then follow it up with your own post.)

THE DOOR. Door 11! That door from The God Complex! And all this time I just assumed it would only ever be left for us to guess what was inside it but maybe now we'll actually find out what was there and aaaa!

You know, the thing that made me most excited for The God Complex in the week leading up to it was the question of what would be behind the Doctor's door. The preview material even made it seem like it would be an important part of the episode. As it turned out, The God Complex ended up being an utterly amazing episode for a completely different reason, so ultimately I didn't mind that this whole door 11 thing had been a huge red herring - but what if it wasn't so much of one after all? This makes me happy!

It doesn't quite seem right to me to hypothetically think that the War Doctor alone would have been what was in room 11. The Doctor may have hated and been ashamed of him until recently, but then that doesn't quite fit as his worst fear. And considering he is now completely okay with the War Doctor's existence, if it had actually been him in there than that wouldn't really be relevant enough any more to be worth bringing up in this episode.

Actually, speaking of that door, here's an interesting thing that I never shared in here. During a panel of some sort that I watched on Youtube, Matt Smith gave his personal idea for what was behind that door: Eleven nooses, with ten men hanging in them, and the eleventh one empty, waiting. (...I think the panel was from before The Name of the Doctor, hence him lying about the number to avoid spoilers; presumably what he actually meant was twelve nooses with eleven men and the twelfth empty.) But that was only his personal idea; if he'd actually read the script for The Time of the Doctor by that point and therefore knew the truth, he wouldn't have told a bunch of fans at the panel, because spoilers. So, despite that I'd actually been perfectly happy to have Matt's idea as my own personal headcanon since then, I guess the truth is going to be something different. Hopefully it'll be something equally interestingly dark and twisted, though.

Other things in that trailer are also pretty awesome. I'd almost failed to consider that Clara hasn't met the Silence or the Weeping Angels yet. Those two particular monsters are extra-dangerous if one doesn't know how they work, so let's hope she figures it out or the Doctor fills her in pretty quickly otherwise she might be in a lot of trouble. D:

How do the Daleks know that the Doctor will "die in silence"? The Daleks were never one of the races that seemed like they'd be part of the Silence religion - as I mentioned several posts ago, they were in the Alliance, and therefore presumably on the opposite side to the Silence? Also, that's not what Silence is supposed to mean. The Silence were out to kill the Doctor before he reached Trenzalore so that silence would fall when the Question is asked; the actual moment of the Doctor's death didn't have to be silent. So, hm.

Then there's the Doctor looking all artificially-aged in one of those shots (around 0:38). So there's something weird going on there.

The Doctor tells Clara he can't change the future and sounds all sad and defeated and gah. I suppose that's because he's already seen his grave, thus making his future fixed according to the time travel rules established in The Angels Take Manhattan? And yet in that episode, established futures could be changed if one was willing to cause a universe-damaging paradox in doing so.

And yeah, it really does seem from this that Tasha is not on the Doctor's side, despite other preview stuff telling us she's supposed to be his friend. Huh. The Doctor usually picks his friends very carefully; it's a shame that among them all there's one who would, it seems, happily turn around and betray him. D: She wants the Time War to begin anew, though? That's interesting, and makes this episode perhaps more connected to The Day of the Doctor than I expected it to be.

the door the door the door the door

no I'm not way too excited about this what are you talking about

Also speaking of trailers, I found another one of BBC's a-bit-of-everything-from-Christmas trailers, which naturally has a few Doctor Who clips - far more fun and lighthearted ones than those from the BBC America trailer, but still.

Hee. It's cute how Clara, in a crisis while cooking Christmas dinner, seems to think the Doctor would be able to fix everything. Are you sure he wouldn't just make everything ten times more chaotic, Clara?

Also yes, multitasking Christmas dinner with fighting off Cyberships definitely sounds like a reasonable idea. *nodnod*

...So apparently it's not that the Doctor actively calls upon Clara after hearing the message about Trenzalore, like I'd previously assumed; seems she gets involved because she calls him for this completely unrelated reason. I wonder if the Doctor even knows about Trenzalore yet at the point of having this phone call.

-oh god less than a week left-

-elyvorg/Amelia
 

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
So, after re-watching several episodes in series 5-7 and watching an interview with Moffat, I have a few questions, most of which seem to be addressed in the special:

Okay, questions...
  • Moffat makes a good point. We have yet to find out why the Silence hate the Doctor so much that they kidnapped River and raised her into an assassin.
  • Since there was a voice saying "silence will fall" when the TARDIS nearly exploded, I'm gonna take three guesses who caused it...but what I want to know is how and why? Causing a TARDIS to explode without being in it (that we KNOW of) isn't an easy matter.
  • We know the Doctor keeps saying that the prophecy about silence falling means his silence and that it means his death. If that's true, why is the Silence so keen to kill him before he reaches Trenzalore? Are they anticipating that he'll take them down with him? Or assuming that the Silence as we've seen them have already seen Trenzalore, he'll leave a major blow? Maybe they've seen Trenzalore and know he gets a new cycle, and are attempting to stop that from happening? I'd like to see how Moffat explains it.

Also, I've since lost the link, but I did see a spoiler-free review of the special from an online magazine that got to see it. Apparently there was only one plot thread Moffat failed to tie. I'd say that's pretty damn good.

Also, the BBC has released a second new clip from Time of the Doctor.

Well then, there go the hopes and dreams of the shippers who freaked out when Clara called the Doctor her boyfriend. We now know it's a ruse. Though, poor Doctor thinking she was serious and actually being okay with it. And also, canonically bisexual Doctor? He admitted to creating a boyfriend. Or did he mean girlfriend? I assume that's left to the imagination, but he did seem to imply boyfriend. It would confirm what they've said in the books (the 8th Doctor was hinted at as being biromantic).
 

VampirateMace

Internet Overlord
1. The prophesy, "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked, a question that must never, ever be answered." (spoiler: Dr Who?) Presumably something very bad happens if the Doctor answers, therefore ‘silence must fall’, and this is why the Silence wish to kill him. Hate is a personal thing, and as we’ve seen, they don’t all hate him.

2. No idea…

3. See number 1

Now, time to go off on a timey-whimy limb and make wild speculations. The saying ‘Silence will/must fall’ seems to have become treated as a prophecy itself. Is this a self fulfilling prophecy perhaps? Not silence must fall, but Silence must fall? That at Trenzalore, when the question is asked, the order will be annihilated. They don’t really have a purpose plot-wise anymore after this anyways…

A plot thread he failed to tie, or chose to leave open?
 

elyvorg

somewhat backwards.
All but one plot thread will be tied up? That is impressive. I look forward to seeing all this for myself. (And like VampirateMace said, hey, perhaps the one loose end is deliberate - it wouldn't hurt to leave the Twelfth Doctor something to keep an eye out for, would it?) It's almost strange to think that all these unanswered questions are really finally seriously going to be answered, after having been led on and left wondering for so long. You get used to not knowing. I thought I never would. Apparently, I was wrong!

But, wow, that is a lot of plot threads to tie up in this one special. And then there's all the other things that we at least vaguely know are going to be somehow part of this, according to trailers and preview clips and images. This is one hell of a lot of stuff to be packed into one hour.
In the space of one hour, we will apparently see, and have answered:

-Shenanigans with the Doctor helping Clara cook Christmas dinner and pretending to be her boyfriend.

-This mysterious signal that's calling so many of the Doctor's enemies together in one place.

-The significance of Tasha Lem and the Doctor's history with her.

-How on earth do the people of this planet know so much about the Eleventh Doctor's adventures, according to images?

-The Doctor learning that this planet is Trenzalore and he's going to die.

-The Doctor explaining that he's run out of regenerations, because that's something that people who haven't been reading preview stuff don't know yet.

-He then somehow needs to obtain more regenerations anyway.

-and trick out his apparent death so that the timestream thingy remains on Trenzalore such that it looks like he died there.

-His room from The God Complex is apparently relevant, too!

-The Doctor gets artificially aged somehow, according to trailers.

-The Daleks are supposed to have forgotten him so how come they seem to know about him here?

-At some point, judging by images, the Doctor has an awesome confrontation with Daleks while wearing a cloak.

-Clara needs to be at least somewhat filled in on how the Weeping Angels and the Silence work, as well as probably the Doctor's history with the latter.

-The Question will be asked! Why is the Doctor's given name so dangerous anyway?

-What exactly was meant by "where no living thing can speak falsely or fail to answer"?

-Why did the Silence go to such ridiculously elaborate lengths to try and kill the Doctor using River?

-What is this "endless, bitter war" against the Doctor that Kovarian mentioned? That was something I never realised was significant, but according to Moffat in that interview, it is.

-Why did the TARDIS explode?

-Who gave Clara the Doctor's number? (I wonder, could this be the one plot thread left untied? Wouldn't surprise me if this one was left hanging until whenever Clara bows out.)

And then amongst all this there also needs to be this huge battle that the Great Intelligence described - or siege, if you prefer, as the trailers call it - in which the Doctor has his last stand and is no doubt incredibly awesome one last time.

I'm honestly not sure how all of this is going to fit into just one hour. It's like the hour is going to need to be bigger on the inside. (hey, if things can be bigger on the inside spatially, why not temporally, too?) This is going to be amazing.


Also, the BBC has released a second new clip from Time of the Doctor.

Well then, there go the hopes and dreams of the shippers who freaked out when Clara called the Doctor her boyfriend. We now know it's a ruse. Though, poor Doctor thinking she was serious and actually being okay with it. And also, canonically bisexual Doctor? He admitted to creating a boyfriend. Or did he mean girlfriend? I assume that's left to the imagination, but he did seem to imply boyfriend. It would confirm what they've said in the books (the 8th Doctor was hinted at as being biromantic).

Anyone who freaked out when Clara called the Doctor her boyfriend was silly not to instantly think it was something similar to in The Snowmen when the Doctor claimed that he was Clara's "gentleman friend" and they'd just been upstairs kissing.

I don't think the Doctor's being remotely serious in any of his responses to her there; by the looks of it he's very distracted by all the Cyberships outside, so he's probably just saying the first thing that pops into his head and not thinking about the consequences.

Why wouldn't the Doctor be bisexual? Steven Moffat's created characters like Captain Jack and River, implying that by the fifty-first century the notion of single-gender sexual orientations is a bit old-fashioned; there's no reason this shouldn't apply to the Doctor, too. Apparently, when asked what the Doctor would think of gay marriage, Moffat said this:
You'd have to explain gay to him first. Then straight! Then why you were still talking when there's ALL THESE SPACESHIPS!! Then [he'd] be very cross it was ever in doubt, add a gay marriage setting to his screwdriver and accidentally marry a Krynoid. Again.
Plus,
"I danced with everyone at their wedding. The women were all brilliant; the men were a bit shy."

Then there's also preview clips one and three.
...This one worries me, somehow. I get the feeling the Doctor telling Clara to wait outside is a bad decision, and that something bad's going to happen either to her or to him while they're separated. D:


So, while plotty speculation is very fun, I feel like this place should also be having some more general sort of discussion as we come to the end of the Eleventh Doctor's time. Though there aren't usually many bolded discussion topics in here, perhaps this time it would be appropriate, to see if we can start something going.

Which of the Eleventh Doctor's three series has been your favourite?

For me, while I adore all of them - each may have had weaker episodes here and there, but I genuinely believe that overall all three have been generally solid and wonderful - my personal favourite would have to be series 6. For starters, the mystery of the future Doctor's death and why that happened and how he could possibly get out of it made the series so delightfully plotty, and it was so much fun speculating and wondering and slowly watching things come to fruition and get tied up - even if we're still waiting for some of the answers. Me being me, I also got ridiculously in-universely invested in the fact that oh god the Doctor's going to die, even though out-universely I obviously knew he'd be fine somehow, so that made it extra gripping and compelling for me.

But above all it's because this is the series that really properly started to explore the darker side of this Doctor's nature and how screwed up his relationships with his companions can be. So many things about the Doctor I was naively oblivious to before going into series 6, and it was fascinating to learn and realise and figure things out, bit by bit - special mention should go to series 6 part 2, and particularly to The God Complex, which is in my opinion the single most pivotal episode of the Eleventh Doctor's entire run.

I think I understand why it had to be series 6 that was the one that did this, too - series 5 was all about simply getting to know our new Doctor and companion and reassuring us that Doctor Who under Moffat's rule is still essentially the same Doctor Who. It was only in this Doctor's second series, once we really properly knew him, that the show could start exploring him and twisting things and deconstructing how he'd been built up to be. Because of this notion, while I'm very much looking forward to series 8 and getting to know the Twelfth Doctor, I think series 9 will be the one to watch out for, because that'll likely be the series that'll start doing the really fascinating, exploratory stuff with him.


I'm not just starting this topic for the sake of obligatory discussion; I'm genuinely interested to see how other people view this Doctor's run. Please, share your thoughts!

-One day left-

-elyvorg/Amelia
 
Last edited:
Sat watching Call the Midwife, then finally watched it with the family.

Well that was rather disappointing. I was so psyched during the entire episode - Daleks, Cybermen, Silence, Weeping Angels - and then an elderly Eleven. I spent most of the episode trying to comprehend how he spent 300 years protecting that one village on Trenzalore. How does it even work? Did the civilians even age? Or more importantly, how is Clara not dead after three-hundred years?

Also, this episode appears to have confirmed that the Doctor does NOT have an infinite amount of regenerations. 12 lives, 13 faces. I'm still not gonna go by how Matt is Twelve.

Scene where Eleven uses the power of regeneration to shoot down a Dalek flagship on the top of a clock tower as it strikes the twelfth hour was pretty exciting. Why didn't he regenerate into Capaldi then though? Looks like he needed to regenerate to a younger self before aging back again.

Also, tfw you see Amelia Pond walking on the TARDIS catwalk, then have Amy step down to say farewell to her raggedy man. Good way to say goodbye to Eleven.

But then it really just killed it when the Doctor just flash-regenerated in the blink of an eye. Why couldn't we get a full regeneration scene? I remember back in Christmas 2009 when Ten was regenerating, it was emotional and painful to watch. But really, that's just lazy. No final words, just bam - we have Capaldi.


And now that Matt has finally left the TARDIS, I will post my whole review on the Eleventh Doctor.

Eleven was... rather hit or miss for me. He was great as a quirky sort-of Doctor, but his series were kind of story-lacking and more for entertainment value. Correct me if that's how Doctor Who always was, but that's just how I feel. The fact that he was introduced in the beginning of this cancerous generation didn't help either - there were some goofy moments that were only there to fit the atmosphere of the YOLOSWAG generation. Also, I'm finally glad that along with Matt his fangirls will go after him wherever he takes his career next. Sure Tennant was all sex appeal, but Matt was just overkill.

Series 5 wasn't too bad. Though I didn't like how they had to change EVERYTHING - from the official logo to the look of the Daleks, I'm so glad they ditched those colorful daleks and brought back the good ol' bronze ones.

Series 6 was the worst - the story was extremely hard to understand, and even if you did understand it's kind of ironic to see Eleven try so hard to mess up time just to save his companions, then have the consequences at a later time. I'm all for kicking logic out and doing the impossible, but the fact that he knew what catastrophes could be caused yet he did it anyway was kind of stupid.

That's really all I have to say. Matt was a good Doctor 'n all, and he'll be memorable for his turn of events. But hopefully, with Capaldi now on the scene we'll get a darker Doctor, a darker storyline and, if it helps, an increase in the tone of language being used. Just look at his performance in The Thick of It - you'll get what I mean.
 
Last edited:

Will-powered Spriter

Pokédex Complete!
Just finished watching, I'm not really too sure what to think. It's not like some of the previous series finales, where I came out feeling entirely disappointing, but neither am I sure I liked it.

I felt having the "battle" in which the doctor finally dies turns out to be a slow life time of simply protecting one village. It feels a lot like him, I never liked the suggestion he just died in a shoot out or something. I'm also glad they didn't reveal his name. Let's never suggest we even might ever again.

There were too many villains at once, though it wasn't as bad as I anticipated. I'm glad the silence were finally elaborated on, although if they are genetically bred priest thingies, why do they shoot lightning.

The biggest disappointment was how little we saw of Capaldi's 12. We got two post-regen nonsense comments and that's it. No next time sequence? WHYYYYYY

Edit: Wait, the room from the God complex? Was that in there? I didn't see it.

Edit in spoiler.
 
Last edited:

Qmaz246

Disney Trainer
Just finished watching, I'm not really too sure what to think. It's not like some of the previous series finales, where I came out feeling entirely disappointing, but neither am I sure I liked it.

I felt having the "battle" in which the doctor finally dies turns out to be a slow life time of simply protecting one village. It feels a lot like him, I never liked the suggestion he just died in a shoot out or something. I'm also glad they didn't reveal his name. Let's never suggest we even might ever again.

There were too many villains at once, though it wasn't as bad as I anticipated. I'm glad the silence were finally elaborated on, although if they are genetically bred priest thingies, why do they shoot lightning.

The biggest disappointment was how little we saw of Capaldi's 12. We got two post-regen nonsense comments and that's it. No next time sequence? WHYYYYYY

Edit: Wait, the room from the God complex? Was that in there? I didn't see it.

Edit in spoiler.


Maybe the room with the crack represents the timelords reaching out to even the god complex to find a safe way into the universe. Also, there was military on the main ship for the priests, so maybe it was to prevent war using the most extreme ways.
 

Poetry

Dancing Mad
Yeah, umm... that was alright... I guess.

I think the most important thing here for me was the fact that I had very low expectations for this episode. Not only did I do into it expecting something as bad as (or even worse than) The End of Time, but I knew that no matter how bad it would be, it would at least be fun to see how they handle Eleven's departure and regeneration.

Most of the episode itself was a throwaway imo, as many Smith episodes tended to be. The scenes at Clara's were well done, as well as the general first half of the episode, but then it began to lose steam. 300 years to protect a village which would eventually be his final resting place? I have no idea why but the plot just didn't really... I dunno, come together for me.

But storyline aside, of course the main event of the episode was the regeneration. And after Ten's explosive and spectacular sequence which destroyed half of the TARDIS, I was looking forward to seeing how they'd top it. Maybe a quieter, more emotional passing, or perhaps an even bigger spectacle with even more flashing lights and destruction than the previous one? Turns out we got the best of both worlds.

The scene at the clock tower was great, but I knew that that couldn't be Eleven's last scene; there wasn't enough emotion, barely any goodbyes and too much expectation. I was pleased to find, therefore, that he returned once again with his "proper" look to say a proper goodbye, a goodbye which wasn't only the Doctor speaking, but also Smith saying goodbye as he passed on the keys. I know some people were disappointed at Capaldi's abrupt entrance, but I actually loved the way they pulled it off. By removing the heavy sense of expectation and anticipation and springing it on us when we least expected it... it might not have been an exciting change, but it was a surprise, that's for sure, and one which I loved seeing.

Anyway, I'm glad that that's over. Bring on Twelve.
 

elyvorg

somewhat backwards.
Wow. This was not remotely what I was expecting this Doctor's regeneration story to be like. And yet, once I accepted the story that was being told, I found it to be told really well. So overall, I'm very happy with it - it's almost sweet in some ways, but also as sad and heartbreaking as a departure episode should be.

Of all the ways I was imagining this Doctor might die, old age was the last thing I would have expected. But having seen it happen now, I think it probably was the most fitting way for him to go. We never knew until recently, but all along the Eleventh Doctor was on what was meant to be his last ever body, so all along he would have known that once he dies, that's the end, no matter what. In a couple of recent episodes there have been indications that the Doctor didn't want his end to be a violent one in the midst of battle, and that he sort of perhaps hoped one day he'd just kind of retire and be able to live out his final days peacefully. This is probably the only chance there ever has or ever will be to tell a story of the Doctor finding a place to settle down and grow old, albeit, this being the Doctor, without it being anywhere near as simple or peaceful as that.

So, kudos to Steven Moffat for managing to write a story that's about the Doctor regenerating of old age. The last two times the Doctor did that, it was just sort of an incidental thing that occurred at the end of a totally unrelated adventure because his body happened to be wearing a bit thin. But here, as soon as the Doctor had figured out what was going on with the crack and the Question and sent Clara home, it was as if in that moment he'd essentially chosen his fate of dying of old age on Trenzalore. (It's quite a thing to discover that this Doctor's worst fear in The God Complex was the crack because he'd always been afraid it would come back one more time and cause a situation as drastic and inescapable as this.) Interesting to note is that the Doctor could potentially have defused the conflict from the start by just killing himself there and then, since then the Time Lords would never have been able to get through and everyone could have gone home - and that's the same reason he should have let himself get killed at Lake Silencio like he was supposed to - but he didn't because he was still determined to hold onto some kind of life, even if not quite the life he usually led, for as long as possible.

If you'd gone back and told a past-me that the Eleventh Doctor would spend a large chunk of his final episode looking older and not like he usually does, I imagine I'd have been disappointed. But I'm actually not, now - he may have looked older and walked with a cane and a limp, but he still acted like the Doctor we know, so I still completely saw him as the Doctor. This Doctor's often been described as "an old man in a young man's body", so having his body finally reflect how old he is on the inside seemed appropriate and really worked, for me. I have to admit it did take me a little while to accept and get my head around the fact that the Doctor spent three hundred years of his life on Trenzalore, protecting Christmas - but it didn't feel like as big a leap as it could have been. Because, throughout this Doctor's run, I've become used to the idea that a century or two of his life might just be wasted away in the blink of an eye, and that despite the immensely long time he just lived through, he really doesn't change that much. The only thing that really changes him as a person is when his companions come and go. And, having sent Clara home, he spent all that time on Trenzalore without any proper companions; Clara and her safety were still his biggest priority during the times she came back, just like she always was.

In some ways it's really sweet and heartwarming that the Doctor was willing to give up his life of adventure and travelling - and being with Clara - just to protect one little town that needed him because he couldn't just turn his back and let it burn. It just goes to show how kind he is, sacrificing all that for people that at the time he didn't even know. At least those centuries can't have been anywhere near as sad and lonely for him as the ones he spent wasting time in between seeing his companions. Despite being stuck in one place, hopefully he didn't even get too bored, as it seems he passed the time in between invasions by telling everyone stories of all of his past adventures - not to mention being a terrible influence on generations of kids by teaching them his definition of "cool" and how to do the Drunk Giraffe. (I was so gleeful to see the return of his awful dance moves from The Big Bang, and even more so to hear it canonically named after the way Karen once described Matt. x3)

However, while he clearly grew to love the town and the community as a whole, I think he probably always tried not to get too attached to any one particular person, because humans age so much faster than him and he'd have had to bury so many loved ones in those three hundred years if he became too close. It's very telling that he got so upset when Handles shut down; despite it being an emotionless computer, it seems the Doctor grew attached to it because it was his one constant friend who wouldn't ever die on him (or so he thought). It also seems that, despite himself, he couldn't help but get a little more attached to one particular kid than all the others. I think his decision to return even after he had the chance to leave was swayed by the way Barnable absolutely believed he'd come back and said he'd wait for him - sound a bit similar to a certain other someone who always meant the world to this Doctor?

It would appear that the Doctor (well, this Doctor, at least) ages exponentially faster as the years go by. For the first three centuries that we knew him for, he barely visibly aged at all, but then after the next three centuries that he spent protecting Christmas, he looked about twenty human years older. So it's not too much to assume that aging from that point to the oldest we saw him at here didn't actually take that long, even though that'd be another forty or fifty years for a human. Which is good, because I can't believe that the actual battle part of the war on Trenzalore would have taken more than a handful of years for it to go from equal footing to Daleks almost completely obliterating everything else.

On Clara's end, the events of this episode must have been heartbreaking, having to watch her best friend, someone she thought would never grow old and die, do just that in the space of one Christmas afternoon. Usually that's the other way around in a Doctor-companion relationship. And the two times he sent her away were like punches to the gut, even though she must have known he was just keeping her safe, especially the second time after he'd looked her in the eye and promised he wouldn't (at which I knew he was lying straight away) and aaaagh. Good on her for being so determined to change his fate somehow. Her speech into the crack about how his name is the Doctor is exactly what I've felt about the issue of the Question for a while now. Damn right that it talked some sense into those silly Time Lords. They should have figured out long before then that coming through here in this way was just going to cause chaos and left much sooner. At least they had the decency to give the Doctor extra regenerations for his trouble, seeing as it was basically on their account that he was dying, before disappearing again.

I was glad that he happened to temporarily de-age so that, for his final farewell scene, we saw the Doctor as we'd always known him. He also evidently went to the trouble of changing back into his more usual outfit, as if he wanted to die "as himself", so to speak, rather than as Christmas's protector who wasn't quite the Doctor he'd always been. Fwee for him eating fish fingers and custard one last time, during his pre-regenerative stress that probably involved an awful lot of pain - further evidence towards my silly little theory that fish fingers and custard has always been like a painkiller for this Doctor! Then it was interesting to see his reaction to being confronted with imminent regeneration, considering that his entire life up until now that'd never been an option so he'd never really had to decide how he feels about it. It struck me as similar to how the Tenth Doctor had felt about it, except this Doctor wasn't quite so dramatic as to describe it as "death", but it's still such an instant, complete loss of the identity he's had for so long that he has every right to find it frightening.

And then the one thing, out of everything, that could have made me find this Doctor's regeneration scene as utterly heartwrenching as possible was for him to go and hallucinate Amelia - and then Amy - as he's about to go. There'd been times in the past when he'd deal with the fact that he was dying and afraid by pretending Amelia/Amy was there even though she really really wasn't (voice interface!). And he said, when he explained how Amelia was the first face he saw, that she always would be seared onto his hearts - this incarnation's hearts, that is - and she really still is, even now after he'd moved on and found Clara who's also incredibly important to him. So to have him reach out to his Amelia one last time, to be hallucinating and momentarily believing she's actually there with him even though he knows that's completely impossible... gah. D: And Amy's words to him were so close to the last words the real Amy ever said to him and d'aww. ;;

One of the last things he did was to take off his own bow tie! While obviously the next Doctor should not be seen wearing a bow tie, this way is all the more poignant than if the Twelfth had taken it off afterwards. This is like the Eleventh Doctor admitting and accepting that he is about to stop existing, which is really all kinds of heartbreaking. Then I actually quite like the way the change itself was really abrupt and surprising. I also have a personal interpretation for why it was so quick, which is that because Clara was reaching for his hand, he was so close that the regeneration energy risked hurting her once it got to the explodey part. So he sacrificed the chance to have a few more seconds as himself in favour of changing as quickly as possible so that it was over in a flash and she wouldn't be harmed. It's also just incredibly sweet that, after realising Amy wasn't really there, he reached out to Clara instead, possibly to try and reassure her, or possibly just because she's real and another source of comfort for him in his final moments.

Oh, Amy and Clara. To me, this Doctor's run has been so focused around these two impossible girls who've meant so much to him, so to have them both play a part in his farewell is exactly as it should be.

Guess who was the first face the Twelfth Doctor saw, just like she was always bound to be! There's definitely something about the way he just silently stared at Clara for a long moment before abruptly starting to complain about his kidneys (hey, wouldn't new kidneys be an improvement? Apparently his last pair were never that good), so I look forward to seeing the new Doctor being adorably, irrationally attached to Clara because of that. Unless it might work a little differently this time because he already knew Clara, or perhaps because this being a new cycle of regenerations changes how it affects his mind somehow? I guess we'll see.

And oh, dear, Clara is going to have her hands full dealing with a crashing TARDIS and a post-regeneration Doctor that doesn't remember how to fly her. Nice going, Doctor.

I've heard the stuff that's been said about how the Twelfth Doctor will be much darker, and while I'm totally cool with and optimistic for more dark Doctor, I can't help but be a little confused by the "darker". The Eleventh Doctor may have been really silly and lighthearted on the surface, but beneath that I honestly think that at times he was one of the darkest Doctors there's been. To have the Twelfth be darker still will be... interesting. I hope he isn't too dark on the surface, because that might just make him difficult to get to like in the first place.

Actually, after the way this episode turned out and how the Eleventh Doctor died, I'm kind of expecting the Twelfth might be really quite lively and gung-ho. His previous self spent the last three and a bit centuries growing old in the same place because he thought he was on his very last body - but now he's got a completely unexpected brand new lease of life. I imagine he'd want to grab that with both hands and rush about anywhere and everywhere and never consider settling down in one place ever again because his previous incarnation's decision to do that was just silly. (Doctors seem to have a habit of looking down on choices their previous selves made; see the Eleventh Doctor describing the Tenth's crippling fear of regenerative death, that led to him essentially wasting a regeneration, as "vanity issues".)
So yes! Optimism about the Twelfth Doctor! Excitement for August-ish time when series 8 will start airing! (The reason we didn't see any preview stuff, as someone complained about, is because they literally haven't filmed anything yet.) Whooo.

But first, the Eleventh Doctor, and Matt Smith, deserve so much credit for providing us with a wonderful chapter in the Doctor's story. I don't care if I'm the only person in the world who thinks so; I will always, always believe that this Doctor's run has been a truly amazing one. He's an incredibly silly, daft Doctor, which to me just made him all the more entertaining and likeable on the surface, but beneath that there's been such complexities and flaws to him which have been fascinating to explore. He's had more development and character arcs than any other Doctor, and it's taken me on such a rollercoaster ride as I've gotten to know and understand him more and more these past four years of my life. While it may retreat to the back of my mind as my brain inevitably fills up with newer Doctors and all the fun times I'm sure they'll bring, I will always remember when the Doctor was the Eleventh - when the Doctor was Matt Smith.

"Everything's got to end sometime. Otherwise nothing would ever get started."

-elyvorg/Amelia
 

VampirateMace

Internet Overlord
I was pretty happy with this episode. I can see how some of you would find it odd that the Doctor would settle in one place for 300 years, but I think there’s several foreshadowing events that led up to it nicely. While he was impatient and really active with Amy and Rory, he has slowed down some since meeting Clara and was considering what he could do if he settled down by the end of The Day of The Doctor.

@ Green: Sorry, I’m not sure you were paying that much attention… Clara survived 300 years because she time traveled and a the TARDIS was merciful (unlike how it treated Jack) protected her from open space and the vortex. The civilians aged, that’s why the old version of 11 was calling the kid by the wrong name, because the kid he was thinking of was long dead. - The Doctor confirmed that regening into himself while 10 did count, and he had a full new set of regenerations. He also explained away the being young again as ‘reset’ before regening, but I assume it was really just a plot element introduced so that the Amelia moment would work.

The Papal Mainframe was kind of odd…

I know we didn’t see much of Capaldi, and the flash regen was annoyingly quick (I agree with you guys there), but the regen trauma lines were brilliant, how does one know they don’t like the color of their kidneys? If that is what he meant… maybe he was complaining about his hair again.
 

Aegon

Well-Known Member
I enjoyed it. The actual plot wasn't particularly strong, but the episode had plenty of touching moments to keep my interest. Hopefully we'll see more of Clara's family sometime. The impossible girl herself has become much more likeable as of late; I thought she was wonderful in both Day and Time. It's a shame she didn't have the opportunity to share more on-screen adventures with Eleven. But back to the episode.

I was largely satisfied with the many explanations given regarding the Silence arc, but I didn't find myself excited by any of it. Too much was revealed in such a short period, and it seemed Moffat was simply using whatever was at hand. I'm not sure why the crack was the Doctor's greatest fear at the time of The God Complex. Why wasn't Clara affected by the "You should kill us all on sight" conditioning when she saw the Silents? Hasn't she seen the moon landing? :p I guess it could be explained by her inability to kill them, so the instinct didn't kick in, but wouldn't she still recall seeing the Silent from the moon landing footage? Oh, and why did the Angel that grabbed her leg do absolutely nothing? A pointless addition, I'm afraid.

Nevertheless, I was very moved. Witnessing the Doctor becoming so feeble, even struggling to pull the Christmas cracker, was quite upsetting, because that's not how I want to remember him. I'm so glad he didn't regenerate completely on the clock tower and was allowed a proper goodbye. Amy's appearance in his final moments was something I really appreciated. That's what I wanted, what I had imagined when Matt's departure was announced. Unfortunately, it was embarrassingly obvious that Amelia was not played by Caitlin Blackwood. Her hair seemed almost blonde. Perhaps the Doctor had difficulties in recalling her face. Funny how it turned out that both Matt and Karen were wearing wigs in that scene.

The Time of the Doctor wasn't perfect, but I think it delivered as a regeneration story for the Eleventh Doctor. It was emotional, with just enough references to his era to act also as a celebration. I will not forget when the Doctor was Matt. :(

Now begins the long, long wait until we properly see Capaldi in the role. It's 2012 all over again! I was hoping for a bit more from his post-regeneration scene, but such moments are never truly accurate representations of how that Doctor will turn out, really. I do hope his costume is revealed shortly. Filming on Series 8 isn't too far off, so it should be soon.

-The Eleventh/Rory Williams
 

VampirateMace

Internet Overlord
I was largely satisfied with the many explanations given regarding the Silence arc, but I didn't find myself excited by any of it. Too much was revealed in such a short period, and it seemed Moffat was simply using whatever was at hand. I'm not sure why the crack was the Doctor's greatest fear at the time of The God Complex. Why wasn't Clara affected by the "You should kill us all on sight" conditioning when she saw the Silents? Hasn't she seen the moon landing? :p I guess it could be explained by her inability to kill them, so the instinct didn't kick in, but wouldn't she still recall seeing the Silent from the moon landing footage? Oh, and why did the Angel that grabbed her leg do absolutely nothing? A pointless addition, I'm afraid.

Nevertheless, I was very moved. Witnessing the Doctor becoming so feeble, even struggling to pull the Christmas cracker, was quite upsetting, because that's not how I want to remember him. I'm so glad he didn't regenerate completely on the clock tower and was allowed a proper goodbye. Amy's appearance in his final moments was something I really appreciated. That's what I wanted, what I had imagined when Matt's departure was announced. Unfortunately, it was embarrassingly obvious that Amelia was not played by Caitlin Blackwood. Her hair seemed almost blonde. Perhaps the Doctor had difficulties in recalling her face. Funny how it turned out that both Matt and Karen were wearing wigs in that scene.

Okay, that's a really good point on the Silence-priest creature, why didn't she attack it?

I just assumed the angel didn't send her back for a similar reason to why River didn't get sent back when it one grabbed her wrist, it was not in a good position to be doing so; covered in snow with them looking at it, if possible.

Lol, I thought something seemed off in that final 11 & Amy scene, her hair was so straight it looked unnatural.
 
Well, I'm all caught up now. I suppose I'll share my thoughts.


The first time I watched it, it was horrible, honestly. There didn't really seem to be any real reason why anything was happening. And that Tasha Lem just seemed kind of out there(How the heck did she last 300 years?) Plus, seeing Matt Smith, with whom I had grown attached to over these past weeks that I've been watching him, as an old, feeble man and not his signature jovial, exuberant self was kinda depressing. The only good part was when Amy(my all time favorite) appeared to him in his mind. Amy was the Eleventh's companion, being with him for almost his entire run.

Then, my little brother made me watch it over again with him(He's not a fan, but he enjoys watching some episodes with me). By this time, I had read some of your all thoughts, so I decided I pay a bit closer attention to smaller details. I saw the episode in a whole new light. The 'old' Matt Smith was still terribly saddening, but the rest of the episode began to make sense. "The Papal Mainframe apologizes for your death. The appropriate after-life will be notified." The hidden humor was brilliant! What still confuses me though is Tasha darn Lem. The Doctor, at one point says that she's been holding back the psychopath in her for years. Who is she and how does the Doctor know her?My first thought was Rivero_O. At the end, when Matt was saying his final goodbyes, did anybody get the feeling that he wasn't speaking to Clara anymore? Like he was speaking to he camera as Matt Smith, not the Doctor? I just loved that last moment and he couldn't have exited better. I'll miss Matt but bring on Peter!

That's my two cents! I had a huge long paragraph about my favorite Series(the fifth), but I had some login issues, and apparently it wasn't auto-saved.

~DMC/Face of Boe
 

Poetry

Dancing Mad
Well, I'm all caught up now. I suppose I'll share my thoughts.


The first time I watched it, it was horrible, honestly. There didn't really seem to be any real reason why anything was happening. And that Tasha Lem just seemed kind of out there(How the heck did she last 300 years?) Plus, seeing Matt Smith, with whom I had grown attached to over these past weeks that I've been watching him, as an old, feeble man and not his signature jovial, exuberant self was kinda depressing. The only good part was when Amy(my all time favorite) appeared to him in his mind. Amy was the Eleventh's companion, being with him for almost his entire run.

Then, my little brother made me watch it over again with him(He's not a fan, but he enjoys watching some episodes with me). By this time, I had read some of your all thoughts, so I decided I pay a bit closer attention to smaller details. I saw the episode in a whole new light. The 'old' Matt Smith was still terribly saddening, but the rest of the episode began to make sense. "The Papal Mainframe apologizes for your death. The appropriate after-life will be notified." The hidden humor was brilliant! What still confuses me though is Tasha darn Lem. The Doctor, at one point says that she's been holding back the psychopath in her for years. Who is she and how does the Doctor know her?My first thought was Rivero_O. At the end, when Matt was saying his final goodbyes, did anybody get the feeling that he wasn't speaking to Clara anymore? Like he was speaking to he camera as Matt Smith, not the Doctor? I just loved that last moment and he couldn't have exited better. I'll miss Matt but bring on Peter!

That's my two cents! I had a huge long paragraph about my favorite Series(the fifth), but I had some login issues, and apparently it wasn't auto-saved.

~DMC/Face of Boe

It's funny, how sometimes episodes just become more palatable of their own accord when you watch them a second time. It's happened to me with quite a few Smith episodes, most particularly with Vampires in Venice; when I first sat down to watch it I thought it was the most atrocious thing ever to have the audacity to invade my television and gave it up halfway through. When my friend coerced me to watch it again a few months later though, I found it to be actually quite an enjoyable episode, much to my unpleasant surprise.

Also the episode aired just under two weeks ago, so I'm guessing the need for spoiler tags now is moot?

Anyway, since the club always seems to be a bit dead when the show's not airing, I thought it'd be good to get a discussion going on something. I recently read a very interesting article on the Guardian talking about how shows like Doctor Who and Sherlock are becoming increasingly limited in their appeal. Apparently the way the episodes and arcs are being structured only really speak to long-time fans, with the apparent key audience - newcomers and casual watchers - being increasingly shut out by a show being shaped sorely by the fans, for the fans. In short, apparently:

the stories become skewed towards the smallest audience that any programme has: the obsessives.

The writer then goes on to say this:

...there were stretches of The Time of the Doctor and The Empty Hearse that must have been almost incomprehensible to new or casual consumers. The sections involving the number of Doctorly regenerations and the way in which Sherlock cheated death sometimes felt like a chatroom for aficionados rather than a programme for a general audience.

Personally, I think the writer here has a point. I think it's safe to say that that things like the 50th Anniversary acted more as a fan-service than than anything, and it does seem that as time goes on, the opportunities for newcomers to familiarise themselves with the show become more and more infrequent, unless they're willing to watch about five-year's worth of episode backlog (this is especially the case with DW, as episodes nowadays tend to be very episodic and long-hanging plot arcs often take center-stage). While maybe little in-jokes and occasional self-referential pieces are fine, I think maybe there is a danger in there somewhere of the show simply becoming too clever for it's own good, discouraging new viewers from jumping because perhaps they think it's too late to get into it, or they probably wouldn't enjoy or understand any of it because they'd never seen any of Classic Who at all (this was an actual response to a friend of mine when asked why he didn't want to get into Who - of course most of us know that prior knowledge of the classic episodes is not needed to enjoy New Who, but just how evident is this fact outside of the fan sphere, if at all?)

So my question to you lovely people: Do you think shows like Doctor Who need to work harder in pulling in and embracing new audiences?
 
Last edited:

VampirateMace

Internet Overlord
I'm going to say no... Dr Who already has a large (and still growing) fanbase, and Anniversary episodes of anything tend to be fan-services full of cameos and running gags. So, that's a flawed argument in the article, there. If someone doesn't want to put in any effort to understand it, they're just not that intrested. You don't need to have watched any of the old episodes to understand what's happening in the new series. But if you have, the nods are there for you to enjoy. It's like the adult jokes in Spongebob, kids still love the show, even though they don't get everything that's going on, nor are they not supposed to.
 

Cassafrass1999

A new beginning! <3
Hi! May I join this club? I am only on the second season of Doctor Who so far, but I am loving it! It is amazing... I mean, usually I am not a fan of sci-fi type stuff, but this show is just amazing... haha that's all I can say. It's amazing all around. XD I wish I could have a TARDIS... hahaha. XD
 

Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
I would love to join this club if possible.

Had to figure there was something on this forum for this amazing show... been a fan ever since I saw an episode after reading so much about Doctor Who. Of coarse I'm only more aware of the more modern day seasons (Eccleston, Tennant, Smith, now to be Capaldi) but I've been hoping to eventually look back at what made this show what it is today.
 

MooseSmuggler

#DeathToFascists
There's a form in the first post you two can fill out to join.

And to avoid only posting a one-liner, I'd like to say that, for those who aren't aware, they started filming for Series 8 earlier this week.
Capaldi is still wearing Smith's outfit, so it's safe to assume they're filming Episode 1. Also, they've confirmed that the person who wrote Waters of Mars will be writing an episode this series.
 

Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
So this sign up form.... I guess I'll fill it out :D

Why do you like Doctor Who?
Wow, first time I've actually had to answer this specific question. Hmm, well lets see... I remember vaguely seeing Doctor Who stuff being posted on the internet in some forums, which got me looking up what the heck it even was. I swear there was likely more to that, but once you actually watch an episode, which turns into an entire season, which then turns into watching it whenever you can and catching up on older episodes, you sorta lose why you never knew about this show in the first place. To be honest though, I don't truly know why I like Doctor Who, other then I just do. I mean the Doctor is a fully fleshed out character who manages to be different with every regeneration yet played perfectly by the guy who follows. Then you have your companions with their own quirks and personality traits that manage to play well along side one of the likely hardest character to act around (someone gotta put the Doctor in his place though). As far as villains go, despite a majority being one time villains or otherwise robots and statues, they somehow manage to be memorable, though I feel the Dalek's are memorable more for their design then anything else (Screaming maybe?). Anyway, if a show manages to stick around for 50 years (yeah I get there was a time break in-between before the reboot/squeal/continuation thing) then you know it's gotta be popular for something. If nothing else solving alien/technology/you name it mystery's or stopping intergalactic wars while traveling in a 1960's London Style Police Box that's actually a Time Machine that's bigger on the inside, is pretty cool, dare I say AWESOME. So yeah, while your cramming yourself with so much knowledge on Doctor Who only to discover there's still so much to learn, it's easy to forget why you decided to have a look at the series and even more hard to pick why you like Doctor Who. Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey...Stuff

Who's your favourite Doctor?
Probably one of the toughest questions to ask anyone remotely connected to Doctor Who. And I'll give you my best shot at an answer, so... GERONIMO!!! Universally there really is no true answer, but a majority would point fingers at David Tennant (10th Doctor). Despite having started more in the Smith era, I've had plenty of time to watch most of 10th Doctor's adventure and well, the majority is right, Tennant played a magnificent Doctor, full of just about every emotion. But, that's not who I'm picking despite my praises, quite frankly I'm torn because Matt Smith had big shoes to fill after Tennant's departure and because of how well he filled those shoes, I gotta pick the 11th. And quite frankly, this was also where I truly got started in the series, the Smith Era. Smith did an amazing job, being quirky, brilliant, mad, and emotional as well. The 11th Doctor was pretty unpredictable, which made every episode, every scene memorable. Plus everyone knows bow ties and fezzes are cool. If I could, I would actually love to say both are equally my favorite, but as favorite tends to come down to #1, I had to go with who really got me started in watching the episodes or adventures, or whatever you wanna call them XD. Can't forget though, Eccleston (9th Doctor) did a great job as well.

Desired character title?
If I had to pick one (not sure if counts anyway seeing as it's not actually a character) it would be Bow ties & Fezzes, if only because I don't deserve any of the actor's names who've played the Doctor. Still relatively new to the show despite having been watching it the past 4 years (I came in during the Matt Smith era explained above)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top