The elusive Ho-oh

[marto_motoko]

This is something that I have a variety of questions about.

I've been watching the movies recently (stopped watching the anime a looong time ago, mainly due to work, school, etc and a heavier focus on the games), but one thing that the movies refreshed in my mind that the anime used to always make me think - what about Ho-oh made him so pivotal to Ash?

Ash's first two episodes feature Ho-oH, and so does the final episode of Johto, and the final of Kanto. We have so many guest appearances of what is deemed in the beginning to be a strongly important Pokemon, however, we never truly get anything vitally significant to be shown about it.

There's been very few Ho-oh oriented things in the anime, and most surprisingly, the supposed creator of the Legendary Trio of dogs, and the counter-part to Lugia, happens to be one of the only legendaries to not be featured in its own film, followed only alongside the three psychics from Gen IV, Cresselia, and Kyogre.

Do you think Ho-oh was perhaps an idea that they didn't feel could be well invested in? Does anyone actually happen to have any links to interviews, or just previous discussion ideas of why Ho-oh kind of bit the dust as a plot element?

I guess there's just so much that was invested in this pokemon back in the beginning of it all, that I feel the obscurity that it was in the later and now current parts was rather shocking.


Thoughts?

PS: Please try to hold an actually intellectual bit of conversation, and no "Ho-oh looks lame that's why" or anything of that sort. I'm discussing value of character, not design choices.

 

[Spacialrend]

I honestly believe that they are saving Ho-oh for the final film ever of Pokemon. Ironically Ho-oh was the first in the anime, but could well and truly be the last featured in a film. It has everything to do with Ash, in my opinion, could even be his own father (one that transforms into a human).

But that topic is a dead one (about Ash's father).

So I wouldn't have a clue as to how he will have his movie appearance, if they featured him with the Legendary Beasts, it would be too similar to the second film, but I honestly see Ho-oh being a good guy.

 

[S.Suikun]

Do you think Ho-oh was perhaps an idea that they didn't feel could be well invested in?

It's a plausible question to ask, although I do think it's equally likely that they just never planned it out well. After all, all we seem to get are the repeated nods back to Episode 1, and that includes its two subsequent appearances ad the assorted flashbacks.

Honestly, I don't see them doing anything about Ho-oh any time soon (and I still think that Movie 13 teaser was just that - a teaser - but we'll wait and see about that one). If anything, Ho-oh has become more of a symbolic figure to Ash rather than a vital plot piece.

 

[sdp]

On the latest Iwata Asks, Ishihara mentions how Gold/Silver were meant to be the last game for the franchise, this is also backed up by the Rise and Fall of Pokemon book that came out around the time of Gold and silver. The anime started after work for G/S had already started for a while so its easy to assume they thought the anime would end after the G/S arc with Ash meeting Ho-Oh.

As far as Ho-oh appearing in the final episode while nice and would tie the whole series in a nice way, I just don't see Pokemon ending in the foreseeable future, as we know in japan series can go for ungodly amounts of time and I feel that the show is likely to continue by the time all the original fans of Gen1 are in our final years. Kinda sad and depressing (in more than one way) when you think about it.

 

[Ash-kid]

I think this story with Ho-oh was only to show the legendaries in the series, nothing more.
If they wanted to develop it and to make something with it in the real plot, it already had been over. I would not be surprised if Ash will see the Ho-oh see again in the early next journey, it might be just to mark where he should go, as happened before Hoenn.

 

[marto_motoko]

On the latest Iwata Asks, Ishihara mentions how Gold/Silver were meant to be the last game for the franchise, this is also backed up by the Rise and Fall of Pokemon book that came out around the time of Gold and silver. The anime started after work for G/S had already started for a while so its easy to assume they thought the anime would end after the G/S arc with Ash meeting Ho-Oh.

As far as Ho-oh appearing in the final episode while nice and would tie the whole series in a nice way, I just don't see Pokemon ending in the foreseeable future, as we know in japan series can go for ungodly amounts of time and I feel that the show is likely to continue by the time all the original fans of Gen1 are in our final years. Kinda sad and depressing (in more than one way) when you think about it.

Hah! Wow, I never knew about that tid-bit, but that's immensely cool to know. I guess it also explains the direct visual and atmospheric split between the third gen from the rest.

Still, the Ho-oh meeting could happen if a conclusive end came to THIS story ark, but again, highly unlikely.

I do actually like the idea of having that 13th movie teaser trailer to be more than just a teaser. For one, it's beautifully animated, and as I said, it'd finally satiate my stupid desire to see Ho-oh get some deserved screen time.

The theory about it being Ash's dad's a little bit far-fetched, and rather Zeus-ian. to be honest.

 

[BlueVapor]

I doubt anything "big" will happen to Ho-Oh anytime soon. But, I bet we'll see Ho-Oh at the end of Sinnoh, giving Ash a sign to go to the next region, or something along those lines.
I don't think we'll fully see what Ho-Oh's purpose is until the very last episode, or movie, either or.

 

[Skull-Kid]

Spacialrend: I would love for Ho-Oh to appear in the last episode too.

Ho-Oh seems more of a symbol as BlueVaoor said which gives Ash hope or to inspire him. Ho-Oh's purpose has never really been clear but that's what I think it is.

The idea about Ho-Oh being Ash's father seems a bit ;083;

 

[Spacialrend]

I have this question about how canon the movies are. The first one was arguably to most out of all of them. Take for example the Dragon Trio, they were in Movies 10-12, yet none of them were evil, just was second nature to each of them to ry to kill each other, yet Dialga and Palkia are yet to feature in the Galactic Finale episodes, where they are summoned by Cyrus, causing chaos that can only be stopped by the Lake Guardians, yet in these episodes, Ash and friends act like they have not meant them before.

So I admit, it would ave more significance for Ho-oh to appear in the final episode, not movie.

Thank you for pointing that out, now I realize...

 

[Lorde]

Ho-Oh might have been planned to serve a bigger purpose at some point, much like Celebi and the GS Ball, but I'm actually glad they decided to reduce it's role to cameo appearances only. I like that Ho-oH has appeared in several episodes where Ash faces a dilemma. When he didn't know what to do after Johto, it appeared to him, heading south to Hoenn. When he was overtaken by that evil king at the Battle Pyramid, it appeared again as a beacon of hope. I'm pleased that it's still around as a supporting figure. I cannot imagine Ash meeting Ho-oH, because Ho-oH always seems so elusive as the title suggests

 

[Spacialrend]

Since the Anime will never stop until GAMEFREAK are done with the game series, Ho-oh will just have to wait for the day he becomes the central part of the show.

 

[CliveKoopa]

Other from Arceus, Ho-Oh is probably the single most important pokemon in the mythology and creation of the pokemon world. His neglect in the anime is therefore quite understandable and he may or may not be seen in the final ever episode/movie. I completely disagree with the theories that Ho-Oh is Ash's dad or that he is owned by Ash's dad. He has probably appeared to many un-named trainers other than Ash so Ash is probably not as special as the anime makes him out to be.