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The End of Third versions?

Utopianopal

Time Crashes
Well there's always that "Pokemon Eclipse" rumor. I mean It could happen but Marshadow.......really? It's probably gonna be a marshmallow ghost Pokemon and everyone will be salty.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
In the past years, Nintendo has broken several traditions already.
- No remake of any past games in Gen V.
- No third versions of BW, instead sequels.
- No third versions or sequels for Kalos AT ALL.

I guess it won't be wrong to assume that Nintendo is in a way to try new things. Therefore, I predict that, that Z version fans have waited for so long will come out after Sun/Moon versions. It is early to predict if remakes will be done, but I am positively almost sure that Z version will come out in a couple of years at top and it will be the sequel of Kalos region just like BW2.

Why would Z come out after Sun and Moon? If they wanted to do it then they should have done in gen 6 after ORAS.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I guess it won't be wrong to assume that Nintendo is in a way to try new things. Therefore, I predict that, that Z version fans have waited for so long will come out after Sun/Moon versions. It is early to predict if remakes will be done, but I am positively almost sure that Z version will come out in a couple of years at top and it will be the sequel of Kalos region just like BW2.
"Trying new things" could simply mean that Game Freak wants to avoid a cliched remake such as Z. If you think about it, Z was an obvious idea, with both Zygarde and the Z-axis.

There is no undeniable proof in the idea. While the concept is obvious, Game Freak may not necessarily do that. Even then, they may have been avoiding an obvious idea such as Z.

I'm in the realm of thinking that Sun and Moon is its own kind of Z. We do see the Zygarde formes, so its likely that there is a tie in to what was mentioned in X and Y.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
I'm in the realm of thinking that Sun and Moon is its own kind of Z. We do see the Zygarde formes, so its likely that there is a tie in to what was mentioned in X and Y.

This. Now that Zygarde and its Formes/Cells/Cores are being integrated into Sun and Moon, I can't see what purpose making Z would serve except to offer a return to Kalos for the sake of it. That Zygarde's story has been changed from protecting Kalos' ecosystem to protecting the world's ecosystem is telling in this regard.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Well, since Gen 5 they have been making it a point to do unexpected things. Getting a sequel and no remake in Gen 5, getting no third installment in Gen 6. They may try something else in Gen 7 to continue shaking things up.

The problem is that the way they've handled third versions in this scenario is that we've lost something in their attempts to shake things up. BW2 was surprising, but it was a constructive surprise. Instead of getting a retread of the previous versions we got a more fleshed out sequel that had a completely different plot, new areas, and new Pokemon. They gave us something better than we expected. Skipping Z for SM thus far has been a destructive surprise. We didn't get the opportunity to return to an enhanced Kalos (which is even more unfortunate since Kalos is probably the region that needs enhancements the most), we just skipped straight to a new generation with no indication that they have any plans to revisit Kalos (and in fact, the signs are starting to point towards us not returning to Kalos). Game Freak really needs to learn the difference between the two, because they've been trying to "surprise" players a lot lately and it's starting to turn people off. Like, I get that they can't do everything all of the time, but they're really letting their standards slip.

It would've been more interesting to see Gen 6.5 instead of Gen 7, that would've also made third versions fresh without having to throw away the benefits of having a region revisit.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
It would've been more interesting to see Gen 6.5 instead of Gen 7, that would've also made third versions fresh without having to throw away the benefits of having a region revisit.

Gen 6.5 never made any sense. You can't have a new gen with in the current gen. New pokemon should be introduced in a new generation that is not .5 of anything. Regardless, Zygarde is being covered in Sun and Moon so a third version game is unlikely.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
I have no idea how "6.5" would have even worked. I still find the concept of a half gen ridiculous.

Besides, now that Zygarde's forms are in SM, kalos feels like a complete region
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I have no idea how "6.5" would have even worked. I still find the concept of a half gen ridiculous.

Imagine if the Sun and Moon Pokemon were introduced in Kalos and Alola wasn't introduced. That's how 6.5 would work.

Gen 6.5 never made any sense. You can't have a new gen with in the current gen. New pokemon should be introduced in a new generation that is not .5 of anything.

And what exactly mandates that they have to do that? They don't need to have a new region to have new Pokemon, they can introduce them whenever they want.

Besides, now that Zygarde's forms are in SM, kalos feels like a complete region

It's much more than Zygarde though. There's a lot of areas and plot elements unrealized and several of them are specific to Kalos. We don't get to explore Southern Kalos, we don't see what those locked doors in the Power Plant are for, we don't see where the Couriway train station goes, we don't know how Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde relate to Kalos' lore and the Ultimate Weapon, we don't know exactly what Eternal Flower Floette is, we don't know what happened to Lysandre, we don't know much about Malva, we see Rhyhorn Racing but never get to do it. That's far from being a complete experience.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
Imagine if the Sun and Moon Pokemon were introduced in Kalos and Alola wasn't introduced. That's how 6.5 would work.



And what exactly mandates that they have to do that? They don't need to have a new region to have new Pokemon, they can introduce them whenever they want.



It's much more than Zygarde though. There's a lot of areas and plot elements unrealized and several of them are specific to Kalos. We don't get to explore Southern Kalos, we don't see what those locked doors in the Power Plant are for, we don't see where the Couriway train station goes, we don't know how Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde relate to Kalos' lore and the Ultimate Weapon, we don't know exactly what Eternal Flower Floette is, we don't know what happened to Lysandre, we don't know much about Malva, we see Rhyhorn Racing but never get to do it. That's far from being a complete experience.

Missing the point. If they wanted a gen to have more pokemon then they can just add the old ones to the pokedex. Once they give us a certain amount of pokemon for a gen, that is it and we won't be seeing any new pokemon until a full new gen is announced.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Missing the point. If they wanted a gen to have more pokemon then they can just add the old ones to the pokedex. Once they give us a certain amount of pokemon for a gen, that is it and we won't be seeing any new pokemon until a full new gen is announced.

You're missing the point. Adding more old Pokemon to the Pokedex doesn't always shake things up. It worked for BW2 because it was all new Pokemon, but XY was practically the opposite and was overloaded with old Pokemon and had few new ones. So if they threw in more old Pokemon people wouldn't care about them because there's already tons of old Pokemon, but if they threw in new ones that would turn some heads and address actual problems with XY.

And you didn't answer my question. Why do we HAVE to wait for a "full new gen" to get new Pokemon? There's no real reason for that to be a thing, they could've easily changed up the formula in that way.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
You're missing the point. Adding more old Pokemon to the Pokedex doesn't always shake things up. It worked for BW2 because it was all new Pokemon, but XY was practically the opposite and was overloaded with old Pokemon and had few new ones. So if they threw in more old Pokemon people wouldn't care about them because there's already tons of old Pokemon, but if they threw in new ones that would turn some heads and address actual problems with XY.

And you didn't answer my question. Why do we HAVE to wait for a "full new gen" to get new Pokemon? There's no real reason for that to be a thing, they could've easily changed up the formula in that way.

Because Game Freak should save new pokemon for next gen. Why make new pokemon for the current gen if the next gen would have new pokemon? It makes sense for new pokemon to be released in a full new generation than some half gen.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Because Game Freak should save new pokemon for next gen. Why make new pokemon for the current gen if the next gen would have new pokemon? It makes sense for new pokemon to be released in a full new generation than some half gen.

They don't need to, they can have new Pokemon in a half gen and a full gen.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
They don't need to, they can have new Pokemon in a half gen and a full gen.

I don't think Game Freak would ever try something like this in my opinion. When I say it out loud or read it, it sound illogical and doesn't sound great. I stand by my opinion that new pokemon should be introduced for a whole new gen and not a half gen.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Do we really need to know about Lysandre's fate? Or the eternal floette? Or rhyhorn racing? I don't think those questions were important enough for Z or this "6.5"
 
Do we really need to know about Lysandre's fate? Or the eternal floette? Or rhyhorn racing? I don't think those questions were important enough for Z or this "6.5"

We didn't learn anything about Cyrus' fate, and Rhyhorn racing is pretty much just world building. As for Eternal Floette, it could easily show up in Sun and Moon like Thousand Waves/Thousand Arrows.

We have very little reason for Gen 6.5/Z because Zygarde is being taken care of in Alola, Gen 7.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Do we really need to know about Lysandre's fate? Or the eternal floette? Or rhyhorn racing? I don't think those questions were important enough for Z or this "6.5"

Lysandre's fate isn't exactly necessary, but they could potentially add a lot to the storyline by bringing him back. Eternal Flower Floette, though, is definitely necessary, because it was such a major part of the storyline and they never really explained why this unique Floette with a black and red flower that looks like the Ultimate Weapon is wandering around and why we don't just see one on a regular Kalos route. As for Rhyhorn Racing, the main purpose is content, which is something that was sorely lacking in XY, but they could really flesh out Kalos' culture by showing us what it is and why it exists.

We didn't learn anything about Cyrus' fate, and Rhyhorn racing is pretty much just world building.

The lack of world building is one of the major problems though. XY's storyline doesn't explain any of the elements they introduce, they mainly just throw them together for the hell of it. They don't offer unique features that make the region distinct (there's nothing like Contests or Secret Bases or Pokeathlon or Join Avenue). The game is completely lacking any sort of depth, and that's what third versions are for. Skipping a third version for Kalos reflects a major drop in Game Freak's standards, it shows they're okay with making half-assed regions now.
 
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I'm not certain if this spells the end to third versions in general, but it is looking very unlikely that the once taken for granted Pokemon Z will be released.

I'm fine with this, as it is one less game I will have to buy, and knowing myself, if it existed I would probably end up purchasing it.
 

Rockapheller

A Pokémon Enthusiast
I'm in the realm of thinking that Sun and Moon is its own kind of Z. We do see the Zygarde formes, so its likely that there is a tie in to what was mentioned in X and Y.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we only know that the new Zygarde forms will be in the database of Sun/Moon, but we don't know that Zygarde will be introduced in the game (I mean if it will be available to be caught or even will be given with events). What if Nintendo wanted to ease plenty of confusions for such things as Wonder Trade or online battles with items and so on?
 
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Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
Lysandre's fate isn't exactly necessary, but they could potentially add a lot to the storyline by bringing him back. Eternal Flower Floette, though, is definitely necessary, because it was such a major part of the storyline and they never really explained why this unique Floette with a black and red flower that looks like the Ultimate Weapon is wandering around and why we don't just see one on a regular Kalos route. As for Rhyhorn Racing, the main purpose is content, which is something that was sorely lacking in XY, but they could really flesh out Kalos' culture by showing us what it is and why it exists.



The lack of world building is one of the major problems though. XY's storyline doesn't explain any of the elements they introduce, they mainly just throw them together for the hell of it. They don't offer unique features that make the region distinct (there's nothing like Contests or Secret Bases or Pokeathlon or Join Avenue). The game is completely lacking any sort of depth, and that's what third versions are for. Skipping a third version for Kalos reflects a major drop in Game Freak's standards, it shows they're okay with making half-assed regions now.

XY versions were fine. Sure a third version would have been great but Game Freak probably feels that the time of third versions is over.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we only know that the new Zygarde forms will be in the database of Sun/Moon, but we don't know that Zygarde will be introduced in the game (I mean if it will be available to be caught or even will be given with events). What if Nintendo wanted to ease plenty of confusions for such things as Wonder Trade or online battles with items and so on?

Why would they bother promoting them in pre-release and even go as far to say they play a special role in SM if you can't catch them? That would be even more confusing.

At this point, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that you can obtain the new forms in some way in SM. How isn't clear yet, but they wouldn't bother promoting them now of all times if they're not obtainable yet.

XY versions were fine.

There's a LOT of people that would disagree with you there.
 
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