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The Extracurricular Lesson is on Mareanie?! (955)

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
I don't think it's right to complain to him about this, really. It's still dumb the scene was outright taken out.

Even CN shows joke around the theme of being spirited away.

Why is it dumb though? The scene was still quite amusing, even without the part that was removed. It had little-to-no effect on the episode. If you want to let one several second scene determine how much you enjoyed a 30 minute episode, I guess you have to right to do so, but it just seems silly to me.

@bguy7, they shouldn't be making such edits in the first place. You defending TPCi's edit practices isn't helping since they DO affact the overall quality of the dub. No matter how I look at it, Ash and Team Rocket's slang-y dialouges, terribly composed wall-to-wall cartoonish dub-exclusive music, and dumb edits like the this episode's edit are pretty much the reasons why the dub kinda sucks now. And FYI, the dub replaces a lot of original music from the japanese version. The replaced music include tracks from both the games and the movies.

Look, I'm not going to deny the fact that perhaps the episodes could be better if less changes were made. Perhaps the original music and the scenes that get cut are better than what we end up with in the dub. However, those things make up only a small percentage of the actual content in the episode. Over 90% episode is still the same as it was in Japan, just with everyone speaking English instead. You're letting that less than 10% get in the way of enjoying a product, which I find silly, myself.

And then there's the fact that people tend to get stuck in the trap of thinking that just because something is worse than the original, means that it's automatically bad on its own merit. Maybe the Japaneses version is better, but that does not mean the English version is bad. Worse does not equal bad. You only think it's bad because you hold it to an artificial standard you've created from watching the Japanese version. As a watcher of purely the dub, I have nothing to compare the dub to, and because of that I see no issues with it, and I can fully enjoy it. Yes, I am more ignorant than most, but I am also able to judge the dub completely on it's own merit, and I say it passes.

You know what? Like you, I didn't really have a problem with how TPCi was handling the anime until they started dubbing XY. The dub's quality went downhill from there. These days I watch the dub just to see which BGM TPCi keeps in each episode.

So you literally watch it just to complain about it? Alright, seems a bit silly to me, but you're choice.
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
Why is it dumb though? The scene was still quite amusing, even without the part that was removed. It had little-to-no effect on the episode. If you want to let one several second scene determine how much you enjoyed a 30 minute episode, I guess you have to right to do so, but it just seems silly to me.

Look, I'm not going to deny the fact that perhaps the episodes could be better if less changes were made. Perhaps the original music and the scenes that get cut are better than what we end up with in the dub. However, those things make up only a small percentage of the actual content in the episode. Over 90% episode is still the same as it was in Japan, just with everyone speaking English instead. You're letting that less than 10% get in the way of enjoying a product, which I find silly, myself.

And then there's the fact that people tend to get stuck in the trap of thinking that just because something is worse than the original, means that it's automatically bad on its own merit. Maybe the Japaneses version is better, but that does not mean the English version is bad. Worse does not equal bad. You only think it's bad because you hold it to an artificial standard you've created from watching the Japanese version. As a watcher of purely the dub, I have nothing to compare the dub to, and because of that I see no issues with it, and I can fully enjoy it. Yes, I am more ignorant than most, but I am also able to judge the dub completely on it's own merit, and I say it passes.

So you literally watch it just to complain about it? Alright, seems a bit silly to me, but you're choice.

Dude, the way you word all of this means you're absolutely okay with anything it's decided to take out from the original content while still sparing the majority. They could take out a leg from a scene and you'd look the other way. Unless it's one of those anime with super controversial scenes, then this doesn't hold much ground.

It's okay for people to watch the dub and try to see what they like. We can also complain when things are executed poorly. And if it happens so often, then sorry we weren't forced to like something in a while because there wasn't just any of that to like.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Dude, the way you word all of this means you're absolutely okay with anything it's decided to take out from the original content while still sparing the majority. They could take out a leg from a scene and you'd look the other way. Unless it's one of those anime with super controversial scenes, then this doesn't hold much ground.

The major point I was trying to make is the product can still be good, even with things removed. I guess my wording may not have been the best, and theoretically something important could be removed, leaving most of the episode intact, and that would be a problem. In this case at least, and I feel like most where I see people complaining about the dub, the scenes in question aren't that important though, and the new, edited scenes, work just fine. Nothing of any major importance or value was lost in the edit.

It's okay for people to watch the dub and try to see what they like. We can also complain when things are executed poorly. And if it happens so often, then sorry we weren't forced to like something in a while because there wasn't just any of that to like.

I don't expect you, or anyone else, to like everything the dub puts out or think it's perfect. And I get that disappoint comes when you compare it something else that you think is better. I just wish that people would be a little more fair when judging, and stop equating being worse with being bad. Judging purely off of the comments people leave about the dub, they more often than not completely over-exaggerate and make it sound like the dub is complete garbage. I think it would be fair to point out that maybe you wish it were another way, but not to deem the dub as a whole awful because of it.
 

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
I think it's about time you notice how bad the Pokémon XY/SM dub is compared to other anime dubs like One Piece (Funimation), Dragon Ball Super and Yo-kai watch.

Just because you think Pokemon's dub is bad doesn't mean bguy7 or anyone else needs to.

There are times when I think replacing music is ok. For example I don't want to hear Kyurem's theme used again in some dramatic scene in the dub...it gets a bit stale over time...
Or when Meloetta's Relic Song is just reduced to a shipping song.

Or when the AZ and Snowbelle City themes got reduced to being stock "sad" cues that wore their welcome out by about the third time they were re-used. I mean really, Espurr's memories (JP)? Eh, AZ theme's good enough. Espurr's memories (dub)? Devote time and energy to create a completely unique and solemn piano piece that makes the moment truly special (though, actually, I think that same piece was used better over Goodra's first goodbye). Serena's haircut (JP)? Slap the AZ theme on it and call it a day. Serena's haircut (dub)? Take the time and energy to compose a brand-new track that incorporates Serena's theme and the Performance theme and perfectly suits the moment, making it something truly special. Clembot's sacrifice (JP)? B C# D, D F#, A A, G...! Clembot's sacrifice (dub)? Bother to create a brand-new theme full of tragedy, sadness, and heroism that contains notes from Clemont's theme in it.

I could go on, but I think you all get the point; scenes whose moods were killed by a haphazardly-placed Japanese track were fixed by the placement of a much better theme. On that note, I cannot wait for the dub of SM021.

It's okay for people to watch the dub and try to see what they like. We can also complain when things are executed poorly.

Thanks for realizing that dub fans are allowed to be that. And yes, we are allowed to discuss what irks us. It just so happens that it isn't the dub that irks me in particular; it's the original JP version that does for the reasons I listed above and more.

Judging purely off of the comments people leave about the dub, they more often than not completely over-exaggerate and make it sound like the dub is complete garbage.

Personally, that and the fact that the opposite happens (that is, that the JP version is overpraised to the point where it sounds like it's the most perfect TV program in the world) were what made me think that the show would indeed be awesome in Japanese.

I think it's clear by now how badly that backfired.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
I admit I was a bit surprised at the edit, since they have kept in death references before. Indeed, they still had Meowth basically say he had a near-death experience. I can only presume that him floating face down in the water was too "real world" a image for the dubbers as its something that could actually happen and does happen a tragic number of times to kids.

I enjoyed the episode overall, but having seen the Japanese version I have to admit Mareanie's Japanese voice is a LOT cuter sounding.
 
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LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Here's the main question i have for those who watch the original AND the dub: Why?

If you have one version you watch and enjoy, why do you need a second one?

As a watcher of purely the dub, I have nothing to compare the dub to, and because of that I see no issues with it, and I can fully enjoy it.

Same
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
Here's the main question i have for those who watch the original AND the dub: Why?

If you have one version you watch and enjoy, why do you need a second one?

They want to enjoy one.

They want to understand the other, then suddenly realize the high quality stuff in the background was taken away.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Here's the main question i have for those who watch the original AND the dub: Why?

If you have one version you watch and enjoy, why do you need a second one?

I personally prefer the Dutch dub. Problem is that it comes out way later, only the first two SM episodes are out now, they tend to be a couple of months behind the English dub. I guess it's simply impatience. That and I still haven't found a reliable legal source for it (actually haven't found a reliable legal source for streaming any version of it yet, but at least the Japanese version is usually pirate-able).

More on-topic, I don't mind the censorship much this episode. I'd prefer it if they didn't, but I can understand why they do. The target audience is young children, who frequently watch it on tv in the living room where parents might also be present. Some parents are more overprotective than others, and if they see something they might consider being a bad influence for their children, they might not let them watch Pokémon anymore. I'm not saying that those parents are in the right or wrong for doing so, that's not the point, the point is that parents who'd ban the show for their children for something like the image of a dead cat floating in the water do exist and are probably numerous enough for the dubbing company not to want to chance it. Remember that most 8-year-olds in the US aren't going to compare every scene to the Japanese one, they won't notice it's missing at all. It's a different situation for the games, where stuff like obscure Gengar Pokédex entries or a Moomoo milk salesmen in a Pokémon centre which states his Moomoo milk is "So good you wish your mother was a Miltank" are most likely never going to be noticed by parents.
 
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TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Here's the main question i have for those who watch the original AND the dub: Why?

If you have one version you watch and enjoy, why do you need a second one?

I only started watching the subs recently. I was trying to catch up to XY in Japan before it ended. Got to Team Flare's attack through a 2-week marathon of watching episodes. After doing that, I gained a minimal understanding of Japanese, so now I just watch the raw version where and when I can and try to pick up as much from it as possible then watch the dub when it comes out to understand it better. Also, it can be interesting to do a comparison of the two versions, as they are subtly different.

They want to enjoy one.

They want to understand the other, then suddenly realize the high quality stuff in the background was taken away.

I'll take a guess and say you're talking about the music here, but I honestly think the dub does a better job of it.
 

Orton155

Pokemon Enthusiast
I quite like the fact of James having a Mareanie but I'm not sure I like the comic relief surrounding it. I think it suits James really well but the question is will he get a Toxapex in the end?

The rest of the episode was rather eventless but Ash did almost lose to team rocket but you could argue that it was 2 v 4 (but I'm not using this as a argument).

Ok episode, onto the next one!
 

Pikachu52

Well-Known Member
Okay. First of all. If your classes take place at the beach, and don't involve actual learning, you don't get to call what your running a school. A daycare centre more like.

Second.... Team Rocket ACTUALLY WON. Against Ash. The episode stands out as one of the most notable in Pokémon just for that. They would have got Pikachu if it hadn't been for Beware.

It's almost unfair. I was a Team Rocket fan back in the Johto and Hoenn series and would have loved to see them win just once. Having the Trio thwarted by an incredibly zany gag diminishes it somewhat. Of course it's kinda necessary given an actually success on team rocket's part throws them into a new moral light. Team Rocket are only loveable if they fail so spectacularly they don't pose a threat. So in that sense Bewear was a reasonable saver.

Bewear gag is getting a little bit silly and I miss the blasting off - kinda Team Rocket's trademark other than the motto. It also takes the anime to having an overly ridiculous comedic nature. Team Rocket used to loose because of Ash's skills and their own incompetence. Having them come within a whisker of beating Pikachu just to be dragged off back to the den by Bewear feels almost a little out of character for the show.

Credit for the Koffing and Ekans lures.

10/10 - Simply because Team Rocket won?
 
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JLK2707

Well-Known Member
Okay. First of all. If your classes take place at the beach, and don't involve actual learning, you don't get to call what your running a school. A daycare centre more like.

Second.... Team Rocket ACTUALLY WON. Against Ash. The episode stands out as one of the most notable in Pokémon just for that. They would have got Pikachu if it hadn't been for Beware.

It's almost unfair. I was a Team Rocket fan back in the Johto and Hoenn series and would have loved to see them win just once. Having the Trio thwarted by an incredibly zany gag diminishes it somewhat. Of course it's kinda necessary given an actually success on team rocket's part throws them into a new moral light. Team Rocket are only loveable if they fail so spectacularly they don't pose a threat. So in that sense Bewear was a reasonable saver.

Bewear gag is getting a little bit silly and I miss the blasting off - kinda Team Rocket's trademark other than the motto. It also takes the anime to having an overly ridiculous comedic nature. Team Rocket used to loose because of Ash's skills and their own incompetence. Having them come within a whisker of beating Pikachu just to be dragged off back to the den by Bewear feels almost a little out of character for the show.

Credit for the Koffing and Ekans lures.

10/10 - Simply because Team Rocket won?

Yeah. Seeing Team Rocket win was a huge surprise. I wonder if they will ever make an episode where they will permanently steal Ash's Pikachu and he will have to get another one to replace it....
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Yeah. Seeing Team Rocket win was a huge surprise. I wonder if they will ever make an episode where they will permanently steal Ash's Pikachu and he will have to get another one to replace it....

To be completely honest, I think the anime might end before that happens. I don't think Team Rocket will ever successfully kidnap Pikachu permanently or even for a long period of time.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
To be completely honest, I think the anime might end before that happens. I don't think Team Rocket will ever successfully kidnap Pikachu permanently or even for a long period of time.

Here's how it could happen (not that it will):

1. TRio steals Pikachu successfully
2. TRio sends Pikachu to boss, who has witnessed Pikachu's power firsthand.
3. Pikachu destroys TR headquarters upon arrival, permanently disbanding TR, and eventually finds his way back to Ash
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Here's how it could happen (not that it will):

1. TRio steals Pikachu successfully
2. TRio sends Pikachu to boss, who has witnessed Pikachu's power firsthand.
3. Pikachu destroys TR headquarters upon arrival, permanently disbanding TR, and eventually finds his way back to Ash
Well, that's one way to write Team Rocket off the show. :p
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
Here's how it could happen (not that it will):

1. TRio steals Pikachu successfully
2. TRio sends Pikachu to boss, who has witnessed Pikachu's power firsthand.
3. Pikachu destroys TR headquarters upon arrival, permanently disbanding TR, and eventually finds his way back to Ash

Pikachu would only destroy a whole base by himself if it was mainly run by TRio. He really is helpless against the big honchos.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Pikachu would only destroy a whole base by himself if it was mainly run by TRio. He really is helpless against the big honchos.

Ridiculous. He'll be struck by lightning somehow while inside. Or Giovanni will be arrogant enough to try and ramp up his power to the maximum level, which has the same end result as with Mewtwo (who conveniently wiped his memories of that, so there's no reason for him not to try again). Giovanni did see how powerful Pikachu ended up after being struck by one of Thundurus' attacks (it was only one, right?)
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Strangely, I didn't care much for the beach scenes featuring Satoshi and his classmates, because I was more fond of the Rocket-dan's subplot. I chuckled when that Camome stole Musashi's bread, as well as when Mimikkyu was out of its cloak and how Nyasu "died." Kojirou capturing the wild Hidoide was neat, too.
 
This was an okay episode.

COMMENTS

- I didn't really care for the slice-of-life moments when everyone played in the ocean. It was not interesting or compelling.

- Team Rocket was amusing in this episode, some of their scenes were quite funny. Mareanie looks like a fun addition to the team and I love the fact that James got yet another Pokemon that harms him out of affection.

- Is there a particular reason why Ash didn't just use his Z-move here? He had no problem using it on Team Skull.

- I think it's hilarious how Team Rocket themselves acknowledged that this was the first time they were nearing a legit victory against Ash.

- There was some plot progression for Team Rocket here: they decided to make a secret base, they talked about catching Bewear, they spoke to Giovanni and Matori AND they caught a new Pokemon. Overall, I'm really satisfied with the way Sun and Moon has handled Team Rocket so far.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
- Team Rocket was amusing in this episode, some of their scenes were quite funny. Mareanie looks like a fun addition to the team and I love the fact that James got yet another Pokemon that harms him out of affection.

Hidoide's gag kind of feels forced to me however, and it breaks the Grass-type pattern that Utsubot started in OS.
 
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