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The Faults of Gen VII

Discussion in 'Pokémon - Generation VII Discussion' started by RileyXY1, May 28, 2018.

  1. Akkipeddi

    Akkipeddi The Great Seal

    Well, gen VII is my least favorite generation of Pokémon, so I have loads of gripes, mainly:
    1) The long, tedious cutscenes: if you're going to have so many cutscenes, the basic thing you should have is a skip or fast forward option, especially given the fact that it takes 45 mins to get your starter Pokémon. So many unnecessary moments where I was stopped really ruined the flow.

    2) Cluster**** of a story: I can appreciate Gamefreak trying to focus more on plot, and making it seem deeper, but unfortunately, the story was baaaad. Pokemon games (barring gen V) are not really known for fantastic plots, but instead the magic is in the exploration of of the region and catching new Pokémon. Unfortunately, in SM, not only did they focus too much on the plot which ended up sucking, Alola as a region was lacking in terms of exploration and Pokémon variety, so that just made the plot feel worse. Unless Gamefreak can really make a plot heavy Pokémon game good, I'd rather go back to gen I to IV style.

    3) Fishing: being able to fish only near rocks was such an idiotic idea.

    4) Rotom Dex: annoying to the core. Handholding all the time, and was even worse in USUM where it never shut up. Even Rotom boosts were bad, because they were random, unlike O Powers.

    5) Festival Plaza: what a piece of garbage this was, after coming from the really good PSS in gen VI. Not only do I specially have to enter this place for online features, but if I need to make party changes, I need to disconnect, go back to the main game, and connect again to festival plaza. Hideous design choice.

    6) SOS: again, another vastly inferior replacement to horde battles from gen VI. Especially early game, where one struggles to ko Pokémon immediately, it was so annoying to see that wild Pokémon keep calling for help.

    7) The Alola region: the region was so small and mediocre. Melemele is one giant tutorial island, and Poni is just empty. Only Akala and parts of Ula'ula had places to see and explore.

    8) Island Challenge: again, I can appreciate Gamefreak trying to add something new, but the island challenge just felt so inferior to gym battles. I hated trials, since so many of their 'puzzles' felt childish.
     
  2. Requiem Aeternam

    Requiem Aeternam Dance like an eggplant!

    I didn’t enjoy Gen7 like I did earlier generations. It wasn’t bad but it wasn’t good either and the bad far outweighs the good IMO.

    Good stuff:
    - Poke Pelago
    - PC IV Checker
    - Visible way to check EVs
    - New Pokémon
    - Z-Moves
    - Alola forms
    - Apricorn Balls are obtainable
    - Hyper Training
    - Male Pokémon can now pass on their Ball when breeding
    - You can see what PokeBalls GTS Pokémon are in

    Bad stuff:
    - Unskippable tutorials
    - Unskippable cutscenes
    - The story made no sense
    - The entire first part of the game being one massive tutorial
    - SOS battles
    - Horde battles were removed
    - Triples and Rotation Battles were removed
    - The PSS was removed
    - The PSS was replaced with the massively inferior Plaza
    - The Rotom Dex is the most annoying feature in USUM
    - I have to hold a button to make Tauros run faster when the bike automatically did it for me
    - Hyper Training requires the Pokémon to be Lv100
    - Levelling is stupidly slow
    - Berries like the Micle, Rowap and Custap berries are still not available yet Battle Tree trainers can have them
    - Alola forms were only Gen1 Pokémon
    - I think the Ultra Beasts have horrible designs and the idea behind them just doesn’t work for me
    - The music felt lacklustre
    - Apricorn Balls being limited to one of each per save
    - Male Pokémon can only pass on their Ball to same species offspring
    - Shiny locks on all the legendaries and Ultra Beasts (USUM may have rectified this with the Ultra Beasts but everything else is still locked)
    - Hack checkers are still garbage and the GTS is full of hacks or trades asking for them (Ditto with genders for example)
    - Half the Megas were locked behind online competitions in SM
    - You’re forced to catch Solgaleo/Lunala in SM to continue the story and forced to take Type: Null in USUM to reach the Battle Tree
    - Prankster was nerfed
    - Thunder Wave was nerfed
    - Some of the Alola forms were hideous and completely wasted potential (Pokémon like Meowth, Raichu and Marowak look great, Dugtrio looks ridiculous)
    - Most of the new Pokémon were so slow
    - No National Dex
    - Trials were a poor replacement for Gyms
    - Fishing is restricted to specific spots
    - Version exclusive fashion
    - The games are horribly optimised for older 3DS models

    All the games have their flaws but Gen7 has way more than the others. I’m hoping Gen8 brings back older features and stops removing good ones for inferior alternatives otherwise I don’t see myself sticking around much longer. I’m already skipping LGPE, I don’t want to end up skipping Gen8 too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
    Majespectre and DuquÊ? like this.
  3. Leonhart

    Leonhart Banned

    In hindsight, the fact that we can't use the D-pad irks me more than it should. I guess I just prefer the conventional method of movement from the older games, which I began missing in Ultra Sun/Moon.
     
    Majespectre, SubtleVVeirdoh and nel3 like this.
  4. Ketaru

    Ketaru Well-Known Member

    - The story, from SM to USUM, was changed in ways that reduced its quality.
    - The Alola region has much less variety than nearly any of the other regions. I appreciate they were trying to go for a Hawaiian vacation feel, but I miss the mixture of summer, autumn, and winter backdrops of Kalos.
    - The Photo Club feature is really lacking for a feature I have been waiting for since X/Y.
    - The game is overly generous with money. I get that the game is supposed to be very friendly. But I feel that money should never be a non-issue in a J-RPG. Generation VII just throws Nuggets at you.
    - Festival Plaza is vastly inferior to PSS. It forces the player to put their other activities on hold, as opposed to being something that could be done alongside them.
    - I hope Rotom-Dex never makes a return. It was cute at first, and I would have liked for some of his questions to have been incorporated in player profiles that are shared in Festival Plaza. But he talks too much, especially when all I want to do is look at the map.
     
    Majespectre and DuquÊ? like this.
  5. Leonhart

    Leonhart Banned

    Well since Kalos lacked a spring-like feel for the most part, it's actually made me enjoy Alola's tropical feel. I'm mainly irked by the whole day and night difference between Sun and Moon, however.
     
    Majespectre likes this.
  6. Pikasaur

    Pikasaur So Fluffy

    Fishing only in certain spots was the biggest problem. As well as half of Melemele being a tutorial until you reach the first trial.

    I like gyms better than Trials, but its almost the same thing. You just get Z Crystals instead of badges.

    and I like Festival Plaza better than the PSS :rolleyes:. It gives us an easier way to level up Friendship evolutions. Also we can dye our clothes different colors than from regular shops and get cheaper Pokeballs and Healing items.

    So yeah, mostly just the fishing and half of melemele being a tutorial. ;)
     
    Majespectre likes this.
  7. Ignition

    Ignition Incineroar wins yet again (proud of my son)

    I have few faults with Alola but they're glaring ones:

    *Obligatory excessive hand holding

    *A good portion of this roster is Legendary and thus not useable in the main story

    *How short the trials are. Shame because I love them more than Gyms

    *The amount of times it takes to get certain Pokémon

    *Hau they did let such an annoying rivalry get in? Seriously tho, he's ight but his team was lacking for someone who wanted to get stronger

    *Lags in Double/Multi battles

    *Rainbow Rocket is a mess.

    *Festival Plaza. Just no.
     
  8. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    1. Sun and Moon's story, as good as it was, was so intrusive it makes the game unplayable after beating it.

    2. Trainer Customization got one hell of a downgrade in the clothes department. Like, I get that we're in a tropic region, but there are still mountains, rain, and cold areas. Shouldn't there be clothing to match?

    3. Festival Plaza was a bust. Nice on paper, but terrible anywhere else.

    4. USUM. 'Nuff said.

    5. It really did seem like the inclusion of Alolan pokemon was just to cover up the fact that Gen 7 had almost no new Ice or Dark-types (only 2 Dark and 1 Ice). Think about it. Of all 18 Alolan pokemon, 10 of them were either Ice or Dark.

    That's about it. I ultimately enjoyed Gen 7, but I'll be real. I'm kinda glad it's over. Here's to an exciting Gen 8!
     
    Majespectre and Ducolamia like this.
  9. Leonhart

    Leonhart Banned

    It gets the job done with extra Join Avenue-like bonuses, so I can't complain too much. The PSS thing in Gen VI was more convenient, however.
     
    Majespectre likes this.
  10. Ducolamia

    Ducolamia SAYYYY WHAT???

    I really do like Gen 7. Not my favorite regions, but still not the worst. If you were to ask me what game I'd rather play between Gen 1 and Gen 7 I'd easily pick Gen 7 simply because I don't want to deal with the glitchfest that is Gen 1. However, while these games have great concepts, their execution is rather lacking. Here's the order of the things the bug me the most to the least.

    1.) The cut-scenes in these stories have very poor transitions. I know people complain about them being too long, but compared to other RPGs Gen 7 is nothing with it's cutscenes. Trust me. The main issues are that these transitions between cutscenes either don't add to the story or are poor. Like, why do we need a cutscene for collecting a Z crystal after a trial when it doesn't happen for the others hat we randomly find? Why do we need cutscenes that forcibly stop the gameplay and always fade to black. Every. Time.

    It would help if the transitions were smoother like in older games, but they aren't. They take forever to load. I know they pushed the 3ds to their limits here, but come on. There had to be a better way to pace these cutscenes. This could not have been the only way to get the point across. And the worse part is that it interrupts the flow of the gameplay. You could be accidentally walking two steps into a story related flag and "Oops cutscene! without any warning.

    2.) The beginning is one of the worst in Pokemon. I said it. It takes you a half and hour to get a pokemon. Too long. Wayy too long. You want to know how long it takes to get a pokemon in gen 5? 1 minute. I get they're trying to tell a story here and for the most part, it's decent. But there is not excuse for this. Young kids (the target audience) is not going to wait a half an hour through dialogue for a pokemon. If I were ten and this happened I would've been bored out of my mind and promptly dropped the game. They only midly sped this up in USUM, but it's still a chore. Add onto the fact the game constantly tells you how to do things without the option of skipping them is awful game design. S/M are one of the few games in which I will NEVER replay them unless I really am in a good mood. It's that bad.

    3.) The tutorials are nonsensical. GF. Stop it. No one needs to know how to catch a pokemon. Chances are, considering the ratings for GO, people know the basics. Just give us a skip option. New things like Z-moves I understand needing to know, but I want to skip the catching tutorial. Don't stop me in journey to tell me what to do something, just let me figure it out.

    4.) Alolan pokemon are too hard to find. Why are pokemon that are indigenous to their own region harder to find than the others? Why advertise having new pokemon when you aren't going to let us find them? Having a pokemon with a 2% catch rate that isn't even that good is really, really bad. It took me an hour to find an Alolan Pichu. And in USUM they just changed the location so I wasted my time in an area that doesn't even have it. Having that small thing with a bagon being found and then a Salamance being entirely possible to catch is great. But that shouldn't be the norm.

    5.) Festival Plaza is really clunky. I don't know why they changed the system from gen 6 when that was perfectly fine. Not only does it interrupt your gameplay, there's no PC in the place, as well as regular items. This means that unless you log off, you can't check to see what you have before you present it in battles or WonderTrades. Add onto the fact there is NOTHING worth it in this place you can't get from Pelago. Pokeballs? What makes it any different from when you get them in stores? You already get a bunch of money from doing sidequests in USUM. And regarding clothes, separating them via version was a dumb idea. Just give us the option the make any kind of clothing. Communicating with my friends are also a pain. You can't write messages anymore. Instead, you have to pick from these vague message boxes. It stinks and a complete downgrade from the system from gen 6. And I hate gen 6.

    6.) USUM completely butchers SM's story. Say what you want about Gen 7 but I found the story to be decent. Yeah, it mostly has Lillie in the spotlight and I understand if you don't like her, you won't like the story, but I think objectively it was okay. Not good or great, but pretty decent for what they were going for. USUM completely destroys that by making unnecessary characters (Ultra Recon Squad) that destroy part of the lore, a Legendary Pokemon that barely gets the spotlight until the end, adding an unsatisfying conclusion to Lillie's story, and making Lusamine from an interesting villain to a poor excuse as a anti-hero. Add onto the fact they removed crucial character development scenes for Lillie and this game legitimately pissed off with regards to the story.

    7.) Alolan Pokemon are wasted potential. Limiting them to gen 1 was a horrible mistake. They could've easily made more, but they have to cash in on gen 1 nostalgia. And it's what really kills these mons. I have no problem with them. They're actually pretty good for the most part. It's just that limiting them to one specific generations sucked.

    8) I like pokeride, but the execution could've been better. Instead of making actually engaging puzzles for this gen we basically just get the same thing that we always got instead it's just blander.

    Overall, I don't think gen 7 is bad. I don't even think they're bad games, but there are definitely flaws that make it a pain to like. I can best describe it as a cute puppy. You want to pet it, but it keeps biting you and it really hurts. You want to hug it and love it, but you're forced to get away from it because it keeps hurting you. That's gen 7 in a nutshell. I want to like these games more, but I can't because there are so many apparent flaws with them.
     
  11. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Besides that the URS could have done more besides foreshadow Necrozma I don't get how they "destroyed" the story when otherwise, they gave more detail on where Z power came from. (Before hand it is stated Z power and the energy for totem pokemon came from the wormholes.) While them having a Solgaleo/ Lunala themselves MIGHT seem like a plot hole, I can picture that they don't want those two pokemon near Necrozma and that they don't trust Lusamine enough to know about that. In addition to how she was going after Necrozma for her own ends Leeroy Jenkins style.

    Through out the story, Necrozma has been a looming threat via eclipse at the start of the game and how he is mentioned constantly as a motivator for some of the characters actions as well as the constant threat he would pose if he eats Alola's light... aka eat the sun which anyone with a brain would tell you WHY this is a bad thing. (No sun= no heat, no plants, no food. We along with any other planet that can house life would all be dead.)

    Plus this is the first time in the main series where a pokemon IS the main villain.

    Unlike the others where it is a legendary being targeted by the bad guys for their power, or with most third versions the third legendary comes to stop the bad guys. I think it is a nice twist to the usual formula the games have.

    Plus we get to fight the unholy fusion this time. (Looking at you Mother Beast disappointment.)

    Lillie lost focus, because it wasn't on her this time. It was on your the player this time as well as the impact you leave on Alola. Otherwise, Lillie still has the same character growth in changing her clothes and taking charge of her own life, still started facing her timid nature head on, in addition actually told us what she wanted to call Lusamine out. (Her and Lusamine talking it off screen may have been a bummer.... but it is no better than what we got in S/M with how Lusamine woke up off screen and how Lillie was perfectly okay with helping her. Without us the player getting any visual ques as to why Lusamine recovering was a good thing.)

    If you actually listened to the game's directions and go to Mahalo Trail, you find Lillie saying her goodbyes to Nebby and let you capture it under less flimsy reasons. I also find Mahalo Trail a more fitting place due to that being the place you three first met.

    Things like Lillie's continued development into a trainer, confessing her feelings to you the player, talking about her goals and doing said goals is moved into the post game of RR rather than stopping at the end. (She gives the exact same confession as she did in Exeggutor Island in S/M) In addition, she becomes a rather useful partner for you in the Battle Tree in US/UM... which is pretty nice and to me is a fair trade off. (As well as ending her story in a place FAR away from Lusamine, who in turn is working out her own problems without dragging her kids down.)

    While Lusamine became a weaker villain in US/UM... I wouldn't call her an anti hero. (In that case, Archie, Maxie, Cyrus and Lysandre would have been that as well... when they clearly are not.)
    Anti Villain suits this one better due to how her.... going to battle Necrozma and protect everyone speech was really just something she tells others and herself to mask a more selfish desire of hers. Punch Ultra Space in the face, live up to her Messiah Complex and search for Mohn!

    Without any desire to give "love" to the beasts/ influence from one. She still green lit Type:Null. (US/UM confirmed Faba started that on his own rather than Lusamine ordering it for the giggles.) Took advantage of others for her own gain, was willing to kill Cosmog for her plans, still abused her kids and still froze her pokemon in an attempt to not lose them. (If you honestly think Hau's "I knew she was a good person." line was what the rest of the characters thought... you don't know Hau's character as someone who is one to see the good in everyone. Everyone else tried to think of a reason why the crazy happened.) In addition, Necrozma would have never became the threat it was if it wasn't for her

    As a character though, we actually gotten on screen, main story dialogue as to why Lusamine went crazy in the first place, a good show of what she would have been like if she didn't keep going down the jellyfish hole. (Not as crazy, not as cruel, not homicidal and has actual humanity.) How because she wasn't as far gone, she was able to be brought to reason and have on screen redemption. (It was heavily hinted that Lillie and the URS chewed her out on her behavior. The following list of things that started at the Climax was tending to Nebby, letting her kids live their own lives and correcting her control freak behavior, thawing out the frozen pokemon if you bothered talking to that employee after RR) As well as development and closure in US/UM that S/M never gave us. (Not spoiling it, you just need to wait a month after you finish the game.)

    Which is a better send off for the character than having her be part of a jellyfish, do absolutely nothing with this while she sends out a buffed version of her old party, getting knocked off the jellyfish, hospitalized and leaving it at that with no closure.

    Now to list some faults.

    1. Alolan Forms: We could have had more/ been given more later in the generation. It seemed like a good concept that needs to be expanded upon.

    2. Cutscenes: They slow the actual game down and they are everywhere... especially on Melemele.

    3. I was not a fan of the Zygarde Cell quest and the sticker thing wasn't that much better outside of interesting rewards.

    4. Festival Plaza... besides some of the free stuff. I really don't like the thing and I wished they done more with it.

    5. Lack of contests: I like those things
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  12. Ducolamia

    Ducolamia SAYYYY WHAT???

    I'll try not to clog up this thread with story details, but I'll respond a bit here.

    The URS does not need to exist in my opinion. The information they give you could've easily been woven through dialogue in the text throughout the game. While we did get more info on Z-moves and Z-power it doesn't require completely remaking Sun and Moon story to do it (which I already thought was fine to begin with). I could get the URS not telling Lusamine everything but it still doesn't make sense how they're so naiive about revealing some information to her. They arrived to Alola, and they tell her info about Necrozma (they even state this in the game when you go after her) but when Lusamine goes against their backs they're surprised she "tricked" them? I know they're pretty foreign to the people in Alola but they should be a bit more well written than this. What I'm saying is that, they shouldn't be this naiive.

    Necrozma has that one moment in the beginning of the game and it is barely mentioned unless via URS or Lillie/Aether Foundation related characters. Everything else minus minor differences are NOT affected by Necrozma. How is Necrozma supposed to be threatening when it literally appears for 15 minutes? It doesn't even do anything fearful minus making the sky go dark and releasing some ultra beasts. Things that already happened in the last game. Giratina had a scary intro and world to go with it. Reshiram and Zekrom were basically the big threat for the entire story because of what power they could give to one person (N), Necrozma literally does nothing until the climax. And while most Legendary pokemon are arguably that way until the climax, they usually have a bigger impact on story. Necrozma is not one of them. It's mentioned that it already did damage, but we never see that. Megalopolis doesn't look like it's in ruin. They've adapted well to what they've had considering the technology the use to get to other worlds. If they really wanted to drive in that point, they should've showed us something like Guzzlord's world in the Ultra Wormholes. But they don't. The implication doesn't work because Necrozma's effect hasn't shown any negatives on the world itself minus the sun being gone. Which sucks for reasons as you said, but when you have the technology to make up for it, the impact is lessened.

    As for motivations, the only people really affected are Lusamine (Gladion and Lillie) and the URS. And it destroys their characters for me because the editing to the story isn't necessary. Instead of Gladion being a complex character trying to stop his mother from doing anymore harm to herself and others, he just runs away to be stronger to defeat the Ultra Beasts for his mom, which makes him come off as really generic in his dialogue. Lillie is pretty much the same (thank god, I loved her character) but the Exeggcutor Island scene in which she talks about her reason for saving her mom is cut out for the last grand trial. And she makes up with her mother...off screen. And her final goodbye to Nebby is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL.

    You know, the thing she's been protecting all this time that's super important to her character and the story? And they just sideline it. And yeah, this game puts more focus on the player, but that's not as interesting compared to everyone else. I've already been through the game telling MY STORY for the past 20 years. I want to learn more about the people IN THE STORY. I strongly prefer the first goodbye to Nebby because it signified the ending Lillie's arc. With USUM it just feels out of place if you've already played SM. Yeah Mahalo Trial may have more meaning, but it doesn't stick with me the same way as finishing up and going to take care of the pokemon league does.

    Let's be fair to Mother Beast. I understand not wanting the implication of harming a person with pokemon in the games. I know pokemon can be dark, but they usually have clear rules they won't break. That includes not harming people with pokemon in the games unless they're the bad guys. Yeah, characters make empty threats sometimes but that's usually to scare people. (e.g. Team Skull w/ Hapu)

    Lillie becoming a partner is nice, but I prefer the original story because the villian, Lusamine's actions had consequences on her children. Yeah, it sucked they had to clean up her mess, but it's better they address it than in most pokemon games just sweep it under the rug. I found the ending nice and bittersweet. Gladion leaving had no emotional impact on me.

    That being said, Anti-Villian was what I was looking for. Thank you! She still has those selfish desires of her, but seeing her go mad was way more fun than "generic JRPG villian who thinks they're saving the world, but are putting it in more danger". I've seen it better plenty of times before and better. The one good thing they actually did here with her character was seeing her let go with the Mohn conflict.

    I don't know how Hau's important to this? I never thought that? The problem is that she's still a horrible selfish person that basically gets less slack for what she's doing only because this time she thinks it's right. I didn't believe Hau for a second considering what she did. And while I do think she still does well in causing a conflict, I preferred the family drama. It had more meaning because it was tied to Lillie, a character I genuinely liked. I was interested to see how this family dynamic fell apart from what she told us and I got that in SM in USUM everyone minus Lillie has a more convoluted motive that isn't necessary other than to shoehorn Necrozma and the Ultra Recon Squad into the story.

    I appreciate the effort to make a new Lusamine that's not crazy, but so much of her character is based on her family drama that changing it for a bigger goal just fell flat to me. I'm glad Lillie seems to have a bit more of a backbone in this game, but seeing how that wasn't the case in SM is more interesting to me. (Her changing her ways is so subtle. I talked to everyone post-game. You don't need to put a spoil warning for me (but thank you anyways) and I did every event possible with a single game. I'm glad she got a bit of a conclusion to that part of her character, but it takes away the emotional impact for me because you don't see her do this on screen. SHOW US that she freed the pokemon. SHOW US that she tried to change more. They barely give us anything outside of text. Mohn's little sidequest was a step in the right direction, but we should've gotten more of it. SM was bittersweet, but was an emotional gutpunch for me because Lillie and Gladion are implied to have to live with what their selfish mother did. And while that sucks, it makes everything feel more poignant because you truly feel like Lusamine had an impact on their lives. By toning that down, it just really ruins it for me.

    I disagree. Seeing her take her madness to the next stage and being able to stop it before it went to far lead to one of the most poignant scenes in the game in which Lusamine acknowledges Lillie for her own person. Her boss fight maybe a rehash of Totems, but the emotional impact I felt really worked. Yeah, it's open-ended but I never felt dissatisfied. Lusamine suffered for the consequences of her actions and those actions had consequences on the people around her. She's selfish. And I felt that was better presented in SM than with her Messiah conflict in USUM.

    Overall, I can appreciate what USUM tried to do. I really do, but when it comes to how they edited things around, it just feels really wonky and unnecessary. If I got USUM first, maybe I wouldn't be as salty. But I didn't. And I'm just not happy with what I got.

    That being said, another flaw I can add is that I'm not a fan of the new battle UI for USUM. They cropped the screen for the pokemon status screen and it just looks really weird.
     
  13. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Ducolamia

    A lot you said in the argument boils down to personal opinion. But thank you for making this an actual debate and making it clear that it is an opinion, instead of pretending that it is a fact and force it down my throat. (Believe me, the last person I argued with on a website did nothing but that and I dismissed him as a child who needs to grow up and have an open mind!)

    Starting off with the URS. Those guys are idiots trying to adapt to a new world and get help, Lusamine took advantage of them for her own gain and I am leaving it at that. (When I as a fanfic writer adapted those guys to being MORE involved. "This was my attempt to put USUM and its elements into the same universe where S/M happened. So a lot was changed to match that." It is clear that I am not a fan as to how they were written in either. But they don't really ruin the plot as much as they do interrupt it.)

    I can say a bit about the URS technology and how they use it to solve their problems. But tell that to the world we are in with technology that is not so advance. (Not a single thing in that long hall way was organic, so Ultra Megaopolis shows a bit of damage in how the inhabitants have to rely solely on technology to survive. How the four's blue skins give an obvious sign that I don't know how long without natural light can affect someone.) As the two members of the Recon Squad at the city said, it is a miserable existence that no one wants.

    Besides that, most third versions change the story to add the third legendary in some way or form. Rayquaza and Giratina are just as guilty as Necrozma... with the former two barely if at all mentioned until the climax of the story. (Zygarde got better treatment in the anime and manga.... a VERY BAD SIGN!)

    I wouldn't call Gladion that complex of a character in S/M when he does nothing but be a one note edge lord who is always angry. When the depths do come, they are too little and too late for me. I appreciate USUM for giving Gladion's depths more apparent as to why he stole Type:Null and ran away, besides getting stronger, he wanted to do that to protect the rest of his family from falling apart anymore that it did. (Implied in S/M... flat out told in US/UM.) I still wished either game used him more. (As a fanfic writer, I made good use of him. The anime had him be a part of the climax and it looks like the Manga is heading that direction as well.)

    As for Lillie making it up with Lusamine off screen... this is no worse than what happened in S/M after the mother beast fight and the dialogue after.

    The dialogue in USUM, starting when Lillie talked to Plumeria, told us everything Lillie wanted to tell Lusamine, in addition to the dialogue before you go fight Necrozma hinting that more was being chewed. We didn't get to see the details because of bigger problem, but the after math to me and where it lead to in the post game was a better trade off for me.

    The Nebby thing IS optional this time, but again... if you did what the game told you and visit the trail, it works just as well as in the last game if not more. (Because at least Lillie got to spend more time with Nebby while you were doing Mina's trial as well as organizing the big meeting. It probably should have done more to make it a point that you SHOULD visit the place before going to the league, but it feels a bit more natural than all of it happening out of the blue.) Agree to disagree.

    This also connects to her actions having consequences over her kids.

    I honestly wished that they continued the story past Lillie leaving for Kanto, it could have been a good post game to wrap all of that up. (Since the emotional impact between her, Nebby and you would get ruined by a sequel and the post game we did get killed any chance of a DLC to expand on Necrozma because we caught him by that point.)

    If only because most of us are uncertain of how sorry Lusamine actually was (Since we never seen her again after the big battle with her as well as Lillie having to STILL scold her mother on what she did wrong.) and for all some of the players know, it would just end with Lillie getting more abuse for her troubles of saving the ***** without us the player to bail her out again. (I know that is not the ending Gamefreak intended and it wasn't the ending I saw. Some people threw a stink on that and I am rearing it as it is because pokemon normally gives a unambiguously happy ending over an ambiguously cruel ending! I also prefer the unambiguously happier endings when we have our characters struggled for it.)

    Least in US/UM, we had Lusamine ON SCREEN THIS TIME regret her actions and start apologizing to Lillie, saying that she was right for running away with Nebby. (Small hint that she was admitting to both of her kids being right.) When Lusamine started her repentance, (Tending to Nebby.) Lillie and me as a player, smiled because this IS was what the last ending should have left in the climax if they were going to go through the route of having Lusamine redeem herself. Actually having her start that redemption path.

    Also, WHY did Gladion have to be stuck cleaning up that mess... in the place he had nothing but bad memories in, especially when another adult could have filled that role and left him with a less miserable ending. (Wicke.) That kind of leaves a bitter taste in the mouth when you think about the things he had to go through. Sorry, I prefer the ending where he gets to get as far away from Aether... see that his mother is making good on changing for the better. Then during most of the post game, does what he loves without having a burden weighing down on him. (He does come back after a month.)

    Lusamine's actions didn't get swept under the rug, it may have been dialogue... but she suffered emotional consequences rather than physical ones. (After the end of the game, but before you start Rainbow Rocket, she states she is in no position to face her children or call herself a protector of anything. Having a small identity crisis and a wake up call that she both deserved and needed to change better.)
    In addition to the whole Mohn scene that leaves a bitter sweet ending to the Aether Family for me. How it basically dissolved to where those happy times will never be again and how the broken family needs to move on and make better of themselves. Perhaps someday they will talk to each other again like normal... but it will take a long time.

    Connected to your last quote.
    While having Lusamine thaw those pokemon and making a more active role in cleaning up her act on screen would have been nice. This isn't as much of a sin as with every other game in the series in regards to villains changing their ways and doing things off screen. (Archie, Maxie, Colress and I think Saturn. "An admin of Team Galactic.") So this is more of an opinion.

    All in all, it really depends on if you prefer practicality over emotional spectacle. One game has more than the other.
    Agree to disagree.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  14. Minedreigon

    Minedreigon A monument to all your sins

    Okay so before I talk about my problems with the game let me just talk about why to me this makes literally 0 sense as a complaint. Personal preference I understand, but the UBs feeling out of place in the setting and roster... you do know that’s basically the entire point, right? They’re aliens. They’re supposed to feel otherworldly, abstractand bizzare compared to some of the other Pokémon in the region of Alola, that’s an atmospheric and artistic choice. So if you’re feeling this way about them, isn’t that an indication that they have successful designs, and therefore it isn’t a fault?

    Anyway, I think my biggest complaint with Gen 7 is the Festival Plaza. Honestly, while I think most of what Gen 7 did was an improvement on XY, this certainly wasn’t. We went from the PSS, possibly my favourite thing about those games, to this horribly convoluted method of online communication. Why?
     
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  15. Ducolamia

    Ducolamia SAYYYY WHAT???

    Yeah, I never got this complaint either. There's a difference between saying "I don't like the Ultra Beasts, I think they make the power creep worse, they're designs look hideous and I don't find them appealing in any way, shape, or form," compared to "I don't like the Ultra Beasts because they are aliens," because in that cause that isn't a flaw. That's literally the point. They're aliens from different dimensions. Of course they aren't going to look like normal pokemon. That's like if I complained that Mimikyu's design is bad because it looks like a demented Pikachu. That's kind of the point.

    That being said (I'll reply to @Zhydra and their comment in a little bit. I don't want to clog up the thread, but I still want to thank them regardless. Debating is fun and I can respect where you are coming from) To move on from that, I completely agree with Festival Plaza. I don't know why GF wants to needlessly take away things that aren't necessary to take away. No one would've cared if you just updated PSS. By adding FP it just breaks your immersion and not being able to see what I get when I get it is awful.
     
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  16. Requiem Aeternam

    Requiem Aeternam Dance like an eggplant!

    It is purely a personal opinion. I hate their designs, the idea behind them and they add nothing to the games for me. I can understand Game Freak wanting to do something different but creepy aliens from another dimension just didn’t work for me. If the Ultra Beasts were to be cut from future games I wouldn’t miss them.

    I’m not saying they’re a bad idea or their designs don’t work in general and I have no issues with others liking them, but I don’t like them which is why I put them on my list.
     
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  17. Minedreigon

    Minedreigon A monument to all your sins

    Now that’s completely different. As I said, I totally understand personal preference. But saying they “feel out of place” and including it as an objective fault is a fundamentally different to that, and that’s what I was commenting on, not your personal taste or distaste to them.
     
  18. Requiem Aeternam

    Requiem Aeternam Dance like an eggplant!

    I’ve changed my original post to better explain why I consider them faults. I didn’t mean to make it sound like the Ultra Beasts are overall poorly designed or the idea behind them is bad in general when I personally just don’t like them. I don’t think Pokémon and Aliens work together which is why I said “out of place”. Hopefully that clears up any confusion.
     
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  19. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    I rather not clog it up myself. It is pretty obvious you and I don't agree on some of things we talked about, but it isn't like neither of us are refusing to listen and it isn't like we were not backing up our opinions with facts.

    To put it bluntly about the guy I was arguing with on another site, when he gets details about US/UM's changes wrong, like saying Lillie was in her Z power form for the whole game rather than changing into it at around the same time as S/M. That is when the other person NEEDS to listen, rather than say. "You think it is but insert opinion here." or "Insert opinion seems." In a debate, getting a fact wrong will automatically make you look like a fool if you don't admit that you are wrong and keep saying things like that. Anyone that argues against you... will stop having fun when it becomes clear you are just being biased. (At least your using correct facts to support your argument and put in statements I can agree on. Then I can counter with mine and if all else fails... agree to disagree.)

    As for the Ultra Beasts, most of them are based off of invasive species. (Cockroach, Jellyfish, Mosquito, Wasps... etc.) For them to be treated as such/ alien is kind of a genius use of them. Especially with the Looker Mission painting the idea that the beasts are not happy to be on Alola either and would rather be back home. (Anime paints them like that as well.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  20. Storm the Lycanroc

    Storm the Lycanroc Unova Bound

    First off I'll say like every other generation this one has it's own merits and faults.

    • Unskippable Cutscenes - Makes replaying the games tedious.
    • Tutorials - As others have said the whole school and tutorial portion of Melemele Island is tedious.
    • Ultra Space - In terms of storytelling I'm not a fan of introducing beings from other dimensions. I prefer the story and lore to be grounded to one plain of existence.
    • Ultra Beasts - Visually mone of them are appealing to me and you get them to late in the game for me to care. By the time you can catch them you're team is fully assembled.
    • Alolan Forms - I like the idea of Alolan Forms and hope for more regional variants in the future. But my biggest issue with Geeration 7's is how they're exclusive to Kanto Pokemon. With the release of USUM I was hoping for new forms to be introduced, specifically ones from other generations.
    • Rotom Dex - An annoying character who I wish didn't say "Heres where I give you advice you didn't ask for."
    • SOS Battles - In SM these battles went on forever. At least in USUM the Pokemon calling for help is limited to one.
    • Encounter Rates - The fact SO many Pokemon have a 1-5% encounter rate is frustrating. Additionally Pokemon locked behind other Pokemon and weather conditions made it even more frustrating. I literally spent hours wanting the desert hoping to find a Gible, Baltoy, and Golett. After not finding any I scanned their QR codes off the internet and traded for them on the GTS.
    • Festival Plaza - Compared to Poke Pelago I had no interest in FP. Its facilities were to vague I have no idea what they do. The only time I ever entered Festival Plaza was when I was forced to USUM on Akala Island.
    • Team Skull - From their motives and outfits I just couldn't take them seriously. I see them more as comic relief than anything else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
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