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The Faults of Generation V

Discussion in 'Pokémon Generation V Discussion' started by KyogreThunder, May 28, 2018.

  1. KyogreThunder

    KyogreThunder Call of Fate

    Inspired by similiar threads for Generations I, II, III, IV, and VI. What are the things about Unova games you disliked?
     
  2. Dream World.

    Wasn't even a great feature to begin with. Then they proceed to shut it down a few years prior to the Nintendo WFC shutdown.

    So goodbye to Dream World exclusive hidden ability Pokémon.
     
  3. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Let's GOOO~

    Although the gameplay was fairly balanced, I'd say that the inability to grow Berries in the game wasn't so great in case the player liked to farm Berries. A lot of Pokémon encountered in the game were new Pokémon, especially in Black and White, which compromised of 156 different species of Pokémon, and the majority of them weren't too memorable.
     
    Kage-Pikachu likes this.
  4. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff

    The once a day limit to access it was also pretty bad. If you had a copy of all four games then you could only use one of them to get into the Dreamworld. And there was no guarantee that you’d get the HA Pokémon you wanted or that it would want to stay with you.

    The downloadable trainers option for the PWT was also poorly utilized. We only got two downloads for it and that isn’t including the one with that one Move error.

    Trading via random players was horrible. Most of the time it was players showing off Shinies and rare Pokémon and rejecting literally all trade offers because they never intended to trade. I once offered a Purrloin that I bred to have Pay Day for a Minccino which was declined. They even rejected a HA Lugia I had offered in return for a Zapdos.
     
  5. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    The Dream World seemed lacking in terms of how limited it was, which was never resolved as far as I recall. I wish we could've grown Berries in the Generation V games themselves.
     
  6. Tsukuyomi56

    Tsukuyomi56 Emblian Pride

    Aside from the botched execution of the Dream World, main faults are that you could not grow berries in-game and in BW the pre-evolutions of the more memorable Pokemon tend to be found only around the mid-game (on top of many Unova mons having high evolution levels). Sprites can sometimes look a bit grainy notably their back sprites in battle.
     
    Leonhart likes this.
  7. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    Oh boy, where do I begin?

    The games were too dumbed down and overall insulted my intelligence. The region was linear and gave you no choice of where to go whatsoever and the whole region feels smaller than the likes of Hoenn and Sinnoh. The difficulty was lower, the trainer rosters were forcibly nerfed, NPCs constantly told you where to go, and the one attempt to rectify this was locked behind an absurd key system that very few people could really access. Limiting the game to new Pokemon only was unneeded and limited variety, and most of the new Pokemon felt like ripoffs of older ones, especially 1st gen Com Mons, which defeated the purpose.

    And as refreshing as BW2 was, the execution definitely felt lazy and there were some wonky pacing/timing issues as a result. The added Pokemon were too clustered in newer and formerly post game areas and because most of those newer areas were late in the game, you really didn't have great variety until the last two gyms. And there were a lot of important features like breeding and fossil restoration that weren't available until post game because they couldn't be bothered to move them. You can tell they didn't put any thought into the timing of the new story progression.
     
    KyogreThunder likes this.
  8. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria Let's GOOO~

    Leafeon and Glaceon being unobtainable until the postgame wasn't really a good thing, considering they're both in the Unova Dex in B2W2.
     
    Kage-Pikachu likes this.
  9. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    I disliked the sprites' slow movements in particular, such as when Pokemon were paralyzed. Moving sprites seemed cool in theory, but they looked garish in BW.
     
  10. Minedreigon

    Minedreigon Prisoner to Formulae

    Can I ask exactly what you mean by this?

    Linear? Well, it’s not QUITE as expansive as the two regions you mentioned, but at the end of the day both of them do have a set path you follow to the Pokémon League. They’re all linear to an extent just Unova doesn’t hide it as well, and that’s okay because there are still optional areas to visit like Relic Castle and Mistralton Cave. I actually really like Unova for changing the setting completely and think all of the locations are really memorable: can you really say that Dragonspiral Tower, Chargestone Cave, Relic Castle, Celestial Tower, and all the cities stand out less than Mt Moon, Rock Tunnel, etc? Seasons helped Unova too.

    The difficulty felt about standard for a Pokémon game at least for me because, well, Pokémon isn’t a difficult game series. I don’t remember NPCs constantly telling me where to go but even if they did that’s at least somewhat better than forced tutorials. I remember NPCs just having the same old random but sometimes interesting or funny stuff to stay.

    I can understand if you don’t like it, but calling it “unneeded” is a bit much. I personally think limiting the game to only new Pokémon is really refreshing! I likd being thrown into a region where I knew none of the available Pokémon, I had to adapt quickly and got to see all the new critters, which is much better, at least in my opinion, than what XY did, watering down the new Pokémon with old ones so much that they became forgettable and missable during the story.

    The vast majority of the new Pokémon feel absolutely nothing like ripoffs. Feel free to list them, but all I can think of is a set of about 3 or 4 evolution lines that simply take a totally different spin on an idea presented by a gen 1 evolution line. That’s not a ripoff. If you ask someone like me, these Pokémon even do it better.

    I felt like the variety was fine... it was what BW offered but with some older Pokémon too. There were plenty of old Pokémon in old areas too, as in most old areas got at least 1 extra Pokémon. I sort of get what you mean about being clustered but those new areas in question, like the Strange House, felt particularly interesting. Pokémon placement isn’t really a pacing issue, that’s usually an issue for the narrative. But no Pokémon game other than BW has been successful in that department anyway.

    Okay Unova is actually the last candidate I would consider for a lazy generation. Behold, the only game with a meanginful and impactful story, and the one with fantastic attention to detail in the lore (behold, Abyssal Ruins!). Not to mention how much effort was clearly put into making each new corner of Unova a standout area and the soundtrack. They also had to make animated sprites for literally every Pokémon. I’m not sensing laziness here. Can you elaborate on what you mean by laziness?

    Sorry for replying, just felt like I would give me view on what was said here.

    As for my faults with Unova? Well, I guess I don’t like the c-gear very much? Or GTS Negotiations? I don’t really have much else to fault, Unova honestly felt like the full package for me, as far as Pokémon goes.
     
  11. RileyXY1

    RileyXY1 Young Battle Trainer

    Using only new Pokemon was a bad idea. Especially when most of those Pokemon are expies of Gen 1 Pokemon.
    The Dream World was a broken mess.
    The games are too linear.
    Easy/Challenge Mode are just too hard to obtain.
    Breeding and fossil Pokemon restoration being post-game only features in BW2.
    The evolution levels of most of the Pokemon were too high.
     
  12. WalesNote

    WalesNote Member

    The region was a straight line for the most part. The next town/city always had a gym and there were no branching routes/paths available to explore aside from a few. Your rivals and the professor showed up often, felt a bit like hand holding to me and less of a journey.

    Some pokémon evolved very late, such as rufflet, larvesta and zweilous. Thought it a bit too much for them to evolve so late, especially when you get them so late as well. You wouldn't exactly use them in your team until they evolved since everything else was a fair bit stronger than such unevolved pokémon.

    Legendaries were too much, too forgetful. The sword trio, meloetta, genesect, keldeo and the weather trio (always called them the 3 genies) were all pointless/too much/easily ignored to me. I wouldn't have bothered with putting them in the game if I was in charge. It would be nice if such pokémon would be included in the story, even if as side content instead of keeping them as event only.
     
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  13. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    I honestly didn't find any of the Generation V Legendaries appealing, with the exception of Zekrom. In fact, the Isshu region has some of my least favorite Pokemon in general.
     
  14. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    The older regions didn't have an entirely set path, there were instances where you could branch off (and for more than just an optional dungeon, unlike Unova) and there was a lot more backtracking. Unova, on the other hand, had you follow a set path from beginning to end, setting up roadblock after roadblock after roadblock forcing you to progress forward throughout the entire game. The linearity is a lot more deliberate in Unova's design.

    The random characters dotted around the region? Yeah, those were the same. I'm referring more to situations where someone like Bianca or Cheren or Alder was constantly shoved in your face telling you what to do.

    Additionally, the trainer rosters were unnecessarily limited which made the battles feel too short and easy. You'd think it was against Unova's law for the gym leaders to use more than 3 Pokemon or something.

    It is unneeded. They didn't need to make you unfamiliar with the entire roster to make the game feel fresh, there are other ways of doing that that would be much more effective. They've come up with much better ways to shake up the formula with things like Megas, regoinal variants, and Poke Ride since then.

    Also, even if you liked it, other people may not have. If you don't like any of the new Pokemon you wouldn't enjoy the game period, so it's better to have as diverse a roster as possible to appeal to as many people as possible.

    The problem is that revisiting previous ideas for Pokemon, even if they're a different spin on those older Pokemon, really undermines the aforementioned attempt to make the game feel fresh. That feeling would've been much more effective if they had used completely original ideas, recycling ideas for this game made the roster too predictable.

    Okay first of all, having a good story doesn't make a game not lazy. It just means you put emphasis on the story. Second, the areas don't really stand out all that much to me.

    As far as what I meant, re-read my post. I never said the generation was lazy (although I would say that it was completely misguided and a poor direction to take the franchise). I said the execution of BW2's design was lazy. I'm referring to things like not moving the Day Care Center from Rt. 3 when it went from an early game area in BW to a post game area in BW2 and breeding being locked to post game as a result, or the Pokemon distribution issues I highlighted earlier. You can clearly tell they didn't think those things through, they just copy/pasted those things from BW and didn't bother to think about how the change in progression affected those things.
     
    Minedreigon likes this.
  15. RileyXY1

    RileyXY1 Young Battle Trainer

    I think that you're talking about Alola here. That region was much more linear.
     
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  16. Minedreigon

    Minedreigon Prisoner to Formulae

    Well yeah I won’t deny the presence of a linear region here I was just pointing out that there were optional places to visit, even if it is a bit more restrictive than older games. I think there is a mostly set path for every game before this. Even if you have to backtrack for a badge, that’s part of the path. You’ll just have more freedom along the way in getting there.

    Having some freedom is a bit better than none, and I just feel satisfied by what Unova has to offer in that area (probably because the locations are just that memorable in comparison to any other main series title imo). Totally see where you’re coming from though if that just isn’t your thing and you want more freedom.



    Right. Isn’t that the same for a lot of other games? Your rival appears and is like “hey, I’m going this way, obviously you should too hehe” (I know Barry did this on occasion). I really think you’re overstating how frequently those characters popped up. It wasn’t too bad and I reckon it did wonders for them because it showed them off a bit more: Unova has actually interesting characters who I actively want to learn more about. Especially N.

    We’ve never had a first attempt at a gym with 6 Pokémon to fight so we can fault the whole series there. I kind of see what you mean but they were working with a limited Pokédex and the Ace Trainers and Veterans still manage to pull off having sometimes bigger and more diverse teams. In fact “too short” is something I think a battle can’t be, I don’t want random trainer battles to take an eternity. They’re fast in Unova unless you actively seek the trainers who have more Pokémon (usually Aces or Veterans). This is actually something I’d praise these games for, lets me get on with what I want at a faster pace. This is probably why I didn’t like DP.



    We’re never gonna agree on this. I don’t like Megas. I’m not going to attempt to challenge this because this is your opinion which the end of the day is to be respected.

    I find it really difficult to imagine someone disliking all 150+ of the new Pokémon in Unova. And that’s also not the only way to enjoy the game. There’s also the region, actually good plot and character(s) in this one, slick and fast battle system, animated sprites, etc to consider. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with taking a risk like this. I don’t want to encourage safe comfort zone game development.



    I sort of see where you’re going here, and I agree, the Unova dex would suck if literally every Pokémon was a gen one reattempt.

    Timburr line, Roggenrola line, (these two are different enough from the gen 1 originals that I really don’t care, the only similarity I can see is evolution methods and typing. These are great Pokémon.) Sawk and Throh... and I’m out. Can’t think of anymore off the top of my head.

    It’s a minority.


    It means they actually tried unlike any of the other games up until this point. Especially when it worked. SM put emphasis on the story and imo it didn’t work.

    The areas not standing out to you is a fundamental difference in opinion. That’s okay.

    I kind of see where you’re coming from here, thank you for clarifying this for me!

    We can’t say for sure if these things were intended but it’s likely they weren’t, even if I’ve personally never wished those things were available before the post game. They just never felt important enough to the main story.

    Copy/pasting from an older game in that generation isn’t a new thing (Emerald, Platinum) but BW2 took it above and beyond for those games and actually turned the idea into a sequel, which is a lot less lazy in comparison.

    I think we can stop here because at this point any differences we have seem to boil down to fundamental differences in opinion, which is totally fine. If you DO want to talk about this more, feel free. This was fun n_n thanks.
     
  17. Kage-Pikachu

    Kage-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    It's been stated but personally I found the Dream World to be the biggest flaw since many Hidden Abilities are much better than standard abilities (of course not always true). I actually loved that the older Pokemon weren't available at first since it felt so fresh but I understand not everyone wants to be forced to abandon all their favorites.
     
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  18. Leonhart

    Leonhart Disney fanatic

    It bothered me in the beginning since many of the new Pokemon seemed like clones of older Pokemon, but I managed to enjoy the feeling of a fresh start eventually.
     
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  19. Kage-Pikachu

    Kage-Pikachu Well-Known Member

    That's good, and I do admit some of the designs are better than others but I enjoyed the experience, it felt like Unova was truly a unique experience.
     
  20. SubtleVVeirdoh

    SubtleVVeirdoh Unova Enthusiast

    Dream World, Entree Forest and the Hidden Grottos were...’MEH’, would have to say these are the biggest flaws. The addition of HA’s and then the distribution and obtaining was poor.

    Can’t be too mad about the difficulty settings in BW2. I mean c’mon it’s Pokémon, not really here for the difficulty. Though, an expansion on the Subway would’ve been nice in the sequels or something(Battle Frontier-ish).

    Could’ve included Pokémon Contest, Safari among other things. Musicals were pointless to me. But these are personal preferences, really.
     
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