The Forgotten Tempest [NU Rain Team]

[TacoHawk76]

The Forgotten Tempest

Hey guys! When I wrote this, it was December 23rd, so I was caught in pre-Christmas boredom. I was expecting a new system that year, so my old systems held no interest to me. So, while at a loss for what to do, I decided to create a team. Not only that, but I decided to type out my thought process as I created the team. The first thing I always do is figure out what tier I want to make the team for. I like the raw power, speed, and bulkyness needed in OU, but the novelty and unpredictable nature of the mighty Never Used tier has always fascinated me. The title refers to the NU Teir (The Forgotten) and the fact that this is a Rain dance team (Tempest)

I broke up the process that I use for creating a team into 3 Parts, with a 4th part to show what the finished product looks like. If you don’t really care how I created the team, skip to part 4. Please comment and tell me what you think about the team. What was a good idea? What was a bad idea? Did I miss anything? I need feedback! (otherwise I wouldn't have posted this)

 

[TacoHawk76]

STEP 1: Picking the Pokes.
-Keep in mind that I’m just randomly picking pokes that look good separately. I’m not really worrying about synergy and dealing with threats. The time for that is later. BTW, credit goes to Pokemonelite2000.com for the sprites on this page

Here we go, I open up Smogon’s list of NU pokemon and begin scanning down the list. This may not be the most efficient method of picking team members, but I use it. The first to catch my fancy (mostly because its near the top of the list) is Chatot.

I like Chatot. I’ve always wanted to use one, but never got around to it. Since I know nothing about him aside from the fact that he is the ONLY pokemon who learns Chatter (which sadly, is not very useful) I decide to use the Encore set provided by Smogon [Encore, Nasty Plot, Hyper Voice, HP Water]. Encore on a move like Stealth Rock or Heal Bell, then Nasty Plot as they switch. Stab Hyper Voice is the main attack, paired with Hidden Power Water for amazing coverage. Right now, I have no idea that this is gonna be a rain team, so I scan down the list for the next pokemon. Another pokemon that I’ve always loved, but was never brave enough to us in OU catches my eye: Floatzel

Floatzel was the first pokemon I ever EV trained (Ya, I used an EV trained pokemon, in-game), so he will always hold a special place in my heart. I was looking for a simple and effective set, and the Rain Dance one jumped out at me. With [Rain dance, Ice Punch, Waterfall, Return] the set looked pretty simple and effective to me. Rain Dance to boost Waterfall’s power and speed Floatzel up. Return for coverage. Ice Punch for Dragons. Rain Dance also compliments Chatot’s HP Water. It is here that I realized that aside from Ice Punch on Floatzel, both of the pokemon on this team so far were using the same type attacks: Water and Normal. It was time to make something different. Then a little voice in the back of my head said It’s raining… why not some Thunder abuse?

Many pokemon jumped out at me: Ampharos, Manectric, Probopass, Raichu. I even seriously considered using Light Ball Pikachu for a short time, but then I saw this glorious beast upon the list: DUNSPARCE. I didn’t even know that Dunsparce learned Thunder, but when I realized that it did, I just had to have it on my team. I’m using a Mixparce of my own creation [Thunder, Water Pulse, Headbutt, Rain Dance]. Rain Dance for obvious reasons, Thunder for a 120 BP, 100% accurate attack with 60% chance of paralysis, Water Pulse for 40% chance of confusion to complete the parafusion combo, and Headbutt for a 60% flinch rate. Pure evil if I do say so myself. Can someone please calculate the odds of you hitting me if you are paralyzed, confused, and there is a 60% chance of you being flinched? Can someone also calculate how fast you have to be to outspeed a Dunspace (45 Base Speed) with 76 Speed EVs after you’ve been paralyzed? I also still need help figuring out the EVs for this little bugger. Moving away from the subject of Dunsparce’s awesomeness, I realize another thing. I now have 3 Normal-Water abusers. Lol. I now feel the need for something incredibly rare and unpredictable.

Para-Parasect! The pokemon that gave me the creeps as a little child (He’s a poisonous mushroom with spider-like legs and menacing pincers! Not to mention that he’s also fully equipped with glassy, soulless eyes). My main reasoning behind Parasect was its Dry Skin. It gives it a source of recovery in rain. So I came up with [X-Scissor, Light screen, Spore, Seed Bomb]. Basically: use Spore, Light Screen on the switch, and then Seed bomb/X-Scissor/Switch from there. Let us shed a tear for Parasect, who had a potential to become a monsterous wall, but alas, fate dealt him a cruel hand. Parasect’s best healing move, Synthesis, is weakened by rain, but boosted by sun. And we all know that it’s best to run if you’re a Parasect in the sun. He has another healing attack, Giga Drain, but it goes off of his base 60 special attack. Though he has Dry Skin, and therefore apparently loves rain, he can’t learn Rain Dance. But he can learn Sunny Day . Looks like Blissey got the 2 Aces, and Parasect got a joker and the card with the instructions on it. *sigh*. But let us move on. Next, I want a defensive wall.

And what in NU is more defensive than Cloyser?! The answer is Shuckle. Shuckle is more defensive. But this is a Rain Dance team remember? So far, I have 2 pokes who hate stealth rock, so Rapid spin is a must. I also like setting up spikes. The set so far is [Payback, Ice Shard, Rapid Spin, Spikes]. Ice shard because I have no priority moves on any of these pokemon, and Payback for ghosts who try to spin block. Rapid spin for obvious reasons. A pokemon of Cloyster’s defensive stature can easily set down 2 layers of Toxic spikes and inflict everyone with Toxic. But that messes with my team’s strategies. There is now no one for Parasect to put to sleep, except for levitators, steels (which he can’t hurt) and those flying types that he scuttles away from in terror. And now Dunsparce can’t paralyze much of anything (though he wouldn’t mind blasting a few flying types with Thunder). That’s why I need Spikes instead. Besides: With Parasect’s Spore and Dunsparce’s generally annoying behavior, there will be a lot of switching, so spikes works more in my favor. Now I like having both a physical and special wall, so now I set out to find a special one

Look at him! He’s simply beautiful! He’s simply squishy! He’s simply Mantine! It may seem like a bad idea to have both of my walls weak to electricity, but that is what Parasect is for: he resists electric and can set up Light Screen. Now only 2 of my pokes have Rain Dance, and they’re both offensive, so I’m putting Rain Dance on this one. I’m using Smogon’s [Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Toxic]. Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, and Ice Beam are self-explanatory, and Toxic is for wearing down walls.

 

[TacoHawk76]

STEP 2: Analyzing Synergy

I take a good long look at this team and something jumps out at me. The type resistance is horrible. I have 1 electric resist, 1 electric neutral, and 4 electric weak pokemon, with one of those four being x4 weak. I also have 2 rock neutrals, and 4 rock weak, with no resists and one of the pokemon being 4x weak. Let’s try to remedy the electric problem first. I have no idea why I thought that something as inherently frail as Parasect would be able to take on all the electric attacks directed at this team. Such a feat is simply impossible with and Hp/Def/SpD/ of 60/80/80. Unless you are immune to electric. Quagsire gives me a wet slap for not picking him in the first place.

With superior HP and Defence, Quagsire is looking way sturdier than Parasect ever did. Not only that, but with [Earthquake, Stone Edge, Curse, Yawn], Quagsire can be more of an offensive threat with QuakeEdge’s providing great coverage, Curse raising his formidable defense and attack, and Yawn forcing way more switches than Spore ever would have. With the Quagmeister, I’ve traded a frail, slow, coverage challenged pokemon that resists electricity and is 4x weak to rock, for a bulky, slow, pokemon with great coverage, electric immunity, and rock resistance. All hail Quagsire.

But my problems are not over. Now I have 4 water types, and 3 of them are weak to grass, but that is an acceptable weakness. I have to look out for Energy Ball, Leaf Blade, Grass Knot, and Leaf storm. Every other grass attack is usually pretty weak (like Giga Drain or Magical Leaf) or scarcely used (Like Frenzy Plant, Power Whip or Wood Hammer). Now what do I do with my rock weakness? I’ve got 1 rock resist, 2 rock neutrals, and 3 rock weaks. One of those rock weaks must go. When you place them side by side, the options are Chatot, Cloyster, and Mantine. After more thought, I realize that if I eliminate one of these pokemon, I have the potential to eliminate both a rock weak and electric weak pokemon, making it so that no more than 2 pokemon on this team are weak to any one type of attack.

After hard thought, I realize that my two walls are indispensible, and that, while Chatot is my only set-up sweeper, he isn’t very important. The main reason is… well everything he can do, Floatzel can do better. Firstly, Floatzel and Chatot both have Normal and Water moves, but Floatzel can hit more pokemon for super-effective damage because he also has an Ice move. Floatzel is also more of a team player, because he carries Rain Dance. Finally, Chatot really doesn’t have any key resistances that help this team, and this team doesn’t really help him do his job, aside from getting a not-very-important HP Water boost. He’s sort of a lone wolf-parrot, and simply doesn’t pull his weight. So Chatot is out. Maybe another time, on another team buddy.

But what to replace him with? The ideal pokemon would resist Rock and electric. An even better pokemon can fire off Thunder Waves to help Dunsparce on its flinch-spree or throw up Stealth Rocks to stack up damage alongside Spikes. Surprisingly, even though the criteria for this new pokemon was extremely demanding, I found the perfect one.

Whodathunk that Nidoqueen would be the answer to all my problems? Her typing is a Godsend. Being Ground makes her immune to Electric and resistant to Rock. Being Poison allows her to soak up Toxic Spikes. Soaking up Toxic spikes is always better than spinning them away, because unless the spinner is named Foretress, the spinner will be Toxic’d. Her moveset is [Thunder, Ice Beam, Thunder wave, Stealth Rock]. As stated above, Thunder wave helps slow down things for Dunsparce (He’d rather jump into the battle with the speed advantage already, instead of earning it with a few Thunders) and Stealth Rock works in conjunction with Spikes. Thunder takes advantage of being 100% accurate in rain, and Icebeam completes the BoltBeam combo provided by Electric and Ice.

EDIT: I have been getting some rates saying that Gorebyss will preform much better than Dunsparce can. And I'm beginning to see the logic behind it. Dunsparce's strategy takes a bit of time to set up, thereby wasting valuable rain time. So I'm going to replace it with Gorebyss. Now the conundrum strikes. She isn't overly bulky, especially since she has very few Hp EVs, but she is SLOW. Even by NU standards. So do I A). Put Choice Spece on her and make her a slow, yet hard hitter? Or do I B). Put a Choice Scarf on her to make her speed stat decent?

Aside from that, everything seems to be in order now, so let us move on to the next, comparatively easy step.

 

[TacoHawk76]

STEP 3: The Fine Tuning

Now that we have a team that theoretically works, we must define the Ability, Item, Nature, and EV Spread

Nidoqueen has two options for ability: Poison Point and Rivalry. But since there is always the slight possibility that every pokemon on your opponents team just happens to be female or genderless, Rivalry isn’t as reliable as Poison Point and its 30% poison rate if hit with a physical attack. Plus, you may meet up upon a pokemon that you can easily kill, only to realize that it is the same gender as you, and now you can’t kill it because of Rivalry causing your attack to drop, [Ability: Poison Point]. Now, unlike Nidoking, whose main role is to wreak havoc, Nidoqueen is designed to be more bulky, so health recovery is important. And since I have no AR, and therefore no access to hundreds of Leftovers, [Item: Black Sludge]. Since this Nidoqueen has only special attack for offence, +SpA –Att is best, [Nature: Modest]. I’m terrible at coming up with EV spreads, so I’ll just go with a rudimentary [EVs: 252 Hp/252 SpA/6 SpDef] until someone is kind enough to post a better one. The 6 on SpDef is an attempt to boost the SpDef, which is slightly lower than the Def.

Floatzel’s only option is [Ability: Swift Swim]. I’m assuming that the slower pokes will need more Rain Dance time so instead of Damp Rock, I’m going for more attack, so [Item: Life Orb]. He’s a physical attacker, and he doesn’t need any extra speed, so +Att –SpAtt is best, [Nature: Adamant]. The best EVs for this set, according to Smogon, are [Evs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 16 Spe]. Apparently 232 HP gives bulk and yields less LO recoil, and 16 Spe is enough to outspeed Timid ScarfGar once it’s raining. I’m assuming that’s enough to outspeed all of NU/UU. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Gorebyss's only option for ability is [Ability: Swift Swim]. Now really want a choice attacker, but Gorebyss's 52 base speed is probably why she is NU. So do I give her Choice Specs and make her a slow, yet heavy hitter? Or do I give her a Choice Scarf to make her speed respectable, albeit not getting as much power out of the set? [Item: Choice Specs/Scarf]. Im gonna do [EVs 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe] with a +SpAtt -Att nature [Nature: Modest].

Quagsire’s possible abilities are Damp and Water Absorb. Water Absorb seems to be the obvious option, but when you think about it, no one will be quick to use a water attack on a team with 4 water pokes. So I believe Damp will be more useful, because it is the only thing short of being a Ghost that blocks Explosion without fail. And I hate Explosion, unless I’m doing the Exploding. [Ability: Damp] Quagsire has bulk, but no recovery, so [Item: Leftovers]. Since this is a physical Quagsire, we can spare the SpAtt, but we need all the defense we can get, so +Def –SpAtt, [Nature: Impish]. I’m also gonna go with Smogon’s [252 HP / 64 Atk / 192 SpD].

Cloyster’s choices are Skill Link and Shell Armor. Though Skill Link will make Sub-Breaking way easier, I don’t actually have any moves on this bad boy that are affected by Skill Link. Plus, no one likes crits, ESPECIALLY on walls. So [Ability: Shell Armor]. Being a wall, his best bet is to hold the last Lefties I have in my possession. [Item: Leftovers]. I wanna give this 180 base Defense behemoth even more bulk on the Special side, but I don’t care about his SpAtt, so +SpD –SpA is best. [Nature: Careful]. Now for the obvious choice, seeing as how I want more SpDef out of this guy [EVs: 252 Hp/4 Def/252 SpDef].

Mantine has Water Absorb and Swift Swim. But for reasons previously stated, I’m not using Water Absorb. This Mantine is more of a tank than a wall; He likes doing damage, so speed is a bit more important [Ability: Swift Swim]. Now, I’ve decided that someone HAD to hold Damp Rock on this team, and he was passed the hot potato (or shall we say, the damp potato) [Item: Damp Rock]. Keeping with the idea of offensive Mantine, we boost his SpAtt and drive his Attack into the ground +SpAtt –Att [Nature: Modest]. I’ve decided to consult Smogon yet again, and they suggest a max SpAtt spread with a nearly even division of Hp and speed [EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe]

 

[TacoHawk76]

STEP 4: So what does this all look like?
Kudos to you, o patient one for reading all of this. But if you didn’t read it all, no hard feelings. Here is what I came up with as the final version of this team that I shall breed, train, and playtest. And credit to Arkeis.com for the pics

Nidoqueen (ImUrMother) @ Black Sludge
(Modest) 252 Hp/252 SpA/6 SpDef
Poison Point
-Stealth Rock
-Thunderwave
-Thunder
-Icebeam

Weaknesses:
Water: Floatzel, Cloyster, Mantine
Ice: Floatzel, Cloyster
Ground: Mantine
Psychic: No resist

Floatzel (Hasselhoff) @ Life Orb
(Adamant) 232 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 16 Spe
Swift Swim
-Waterfall
-Return
-Ice Punch
-Rain Dance

Weaknesses:
Electric: Nidoqueen, Quagsire
Grass: No resistance

Gorebyss (OrganStraw) @ Life Orb
(Modest) 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Swift Swim
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
-Psychic

Weakness:
Electric: Nidoqueen, Quagsire
Grass: No resistance

Quagsire (Fredward) @ Leftovers
(Impish) 252 HP / 64 Atk / 192 SpD
Damp
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Curse
-Yawn

Weakness:
Grass: No resistance

Cloyster (Bastille) @ Leftovers
(Careful) 252 Hp/4 Def/252 SpDef
Shell Armor
-Payback
-Ice Shard
-Rapid spin
-Spikes

Weaknesses:
Electric: Nidoqueen, Quagsire
Grass: No resistance
Fight: Nidoqueen
Rock: Quagsire, Nidoqueen

Mantine (ImFlying?) @ Damp Rock
(Modest) 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
Swift Swim
-Rain Dance
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Toxic

Weaknesses:
Electric: Quagsire, Nidoqueen
Rock: Nidoqueen, Quagsire

So there it is, my NU Rain team. Thought process and all. Please help me with the parts in bold and show me any problems that I may have missed. I may or may not post a threat list. Depends on how my feedback is.

 

[TacoHawk76]

This space reserved for possible extra members of this team and maybe a threat list

Here is a member that may alleviate my grass weakness. Keep in mind, that I'm footloose and fancy free and willing to try anything, as long as it works. So someone tell me how viable this Muk is?

Muk (Handshake?) @ Black Sludge/Damp Rock
(Sassy) 252 Hp/252 Att/6 Sp.Def
-Rain Dance
-Screech
-Ice Punch
-Thunderpunch

He's a weird one eh? Rain Dance is for obvious reasons. Thunderpunch and Icepunch are a poor man's BoltBeam. Screech is for Pseudo-pseudo hazing. It lowers their Defence by two stages. That, accompanied by unresisted attacks coming off of Muk's 105 Base Attack will make any pokemon switch out in fear. His poison typing resists Grass, hopefully striking back at them with Ice Punch. His typing also helps me resist fighting moves.

As for who he will replace, the main suspect right now is Mantine. So tell me, what do you think about him? And can anyone suggest EV's? Right now im just doing basic 252 Hp/252 Att/6 Def. Sassy nature is +SpDef -Spe

 

[Divine Retribution]

Definitely needs work, and is 110% countered by Lucario. You have way too much unshielded weakness to grass. I predict problems with Cradily, Tangrowth, and Sceptile especially. Torterra can be a threat too, but Cloyster can deal with him.

 

[Ampy]

^This is NU so Lucario shouldn't even have been brought into the discussion... and the only one you mentioned that was NU is Cradily.

 

[Luxe]

I'm still in awe that you took the time to put all of that into text (I skipped down to Step 4). I would like to present the following:

-I didn't know dunsparce was a johto pokemon until just now
-I dont really know what i'm doing here, but if you went with 252spatk/252spe OR 252spatk/252Hp, and then replaced heabutt with shadowball or (this might be less useful than shadowball) charge beam, it might be worth your while.
-I like the dunsparce abuse, I'm putting that in my resources (yes I have an area on my hardrive dedicated to pokemon planning, just need to find a downloadable pokedex [which serebii isn't going to make]).


EDIT: I'm sorry for going off topic, but did Smogon seriously put Manaphy into OU? I heard it, but when I checked it was still Uber

 

[Bulldogs]

Currently, a Poliwrath could wall and set up on everyone on your team barring Nido who is swiftly KOd by Waterafall. Sub Bulk Up variants would be the worst. To be honest, Dunsparce feels really out of place on this team, and I think you could abuse the rain some more which is why I'm suggesting Gorebyss. Its high defense means it can take a hit from Poliwrath's mediocre attack and promptly KO with Psychic

Gorebyss @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Modest
36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
~ Psychic

Other than that the team looks pretty solid.

 

[TacoHawk76]

@SevenSevens Well if I see a Lucario, I'll just disconnect, as this team will only be used in NU/UU play. Cradily's main attacks are Earthquake, Rockslide, and Toxic, all handled by Quagsire. Tangrowth is destroyed by Mantine, but yes, I am very scared of Sceptile in UU.

@Ampy, Thank you for catching that before I did

@Luxe, The reaso I didn't use Shadow Ball is because, while lowering SpDef is nice, Shadow Ball doesn't flinch, so it doesn't work as well as Headbutt. And yes, Dunsparce is indeed the epitome of epic. And I also think that if Manaphy was seperated from Kyogre's instant rain that heals it from status because of its ability, Hydration then three things would happen. Manaphy would most likely become just another OU, somewhere near the power of Jirachi and Celebi. Or Manaphy will single-handedly increase the use of Rain teams in OU. Or Manaphy will fade into the background, to strong to slip into UU, to boring to realy be used in OU

 

[TacoHawk76]

@Bulldogs, I see what you say about Poliwrath. If Nidoqueen doesn't die on the first hit, she can get off a Thunderwave. Then I can switch to Dunsparce (who is hopefully faster than a paralyzed pokemon) and use Headbutt to paraflinch him to death. But that is a rather risky situation, I think I'll breed and train both Dunsparce and Gorebyss and then use Dunsparce. If he doesn't get many opportunities to come in, or if he gets the ball rolling and drops it too many times, I'll instantly replace him with Gorebyss. Because that thing looks sick, though this team has a disturbing lack of Choice, so I may go with SpecsByss/ScarfByss instead of a LO variant.

Thanks for the swift but extremely usefull reply.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Im sorry, I dont base my rates on tiers, I just dont include Uber threats. Its a pretty good team for the limited resources of NU/UU/BL.

 

[I_Dreamer]

Soz if I sound stupid cuz I'm new to pokemon PVP n stuff but wont starmie b able to sweep your team quite easily?

Starmie:
Item: choice specs
EVs:252 speed/ 252 sp.atk/4 hp
Moves:
1.Ice beam
2.Surf
3.grass knot
4.thunderbolt

 

[TacoHawk76]

@I_Dreamer Don't worry dude, everyone sounds stupid at one point. No one just steps into a new situation knowing all the rules and jargon. Indeed, Starmie does sweep my team, with its superior speed and raw power. That is why Starmie is considered an OU, or Over Used pokemon. Because it is faster or more powerful or bulkier or has some other trait that makes it better than most other pokemon.

My team is intentionally comprised of NU, or Never Used pokemon. They are basically weaker, slower, or more frail pokemon that simply can't survive in the same environment as the powerful OU pokemon.

Since they are obviously weaker, Never Used and Under Used (UU) pokemon would, just as their name suggests, barely ever be used. So a website named Smogon decided to divide all pokemon into the following teirs: Uber, Over Used, Under Used, Never Used, and Not Fully Evolved. People have 'Under Used only' matches because they want to use pokemon that will be flattened by Uber or OU pokemon, but will have a fair chance of defeating UU pokemon.

So even though I have a glaring Starmie weakness, I don't have to worry about beating it because my NU pokemon will never go against a team of OUs.

 

[TacoHawk76]

FALCON BUMP! (Don't worry, I won't do this again)

 

[777ICH777]

I think's it's pretty good, but you will definitely want another sweeper to take advantage of the rain, so i think gorebyss is a great choice. Probably over Dunsparce because the startegy you have for him takes too long to pull off and would be wasting valuable rain time.

 

[TacoHawk76]

@ 777ICH777, thanks dude, it completely slipped my mind that Dunsparce my actually be wasting my time. Now that I take into account what you and Bulldogs said, I realize that Dunsparce is more of a liability. So Gorebyss it is.

 

[Razor Shiftry]

your lack of grass resist worries me a bit. and poliwrath is still a problem. i'd say. A lot of Poli's have Sub. so if you switch, he'll be safe behind a sub so you can't wave it and it can set up/attack you.

And quite a few Cradily have Energy ball i find... and you're forgetting that the number 1 UU poke at the moment (assuing you're playing this team in UU/NU) is Venusaur which is ALWAYS carrying powerwhip these days and earthquake - so not even Nidoqueen is safe since i think she'd be outsped even if you switch in on a resisted Whip.

sadly, i don't know NU that well but i just found out Lickilily is NU...and its pretty beast defencivly and has STAB explosion...

 

[TacoHawk76]

@Razor Shiftry, well now that you point out the Venusaur thing, I see that my grass weakness isn't as unnoticable as I thought it was. So I'm considering switching Manite out for a new Muk that I thought of. Can someone please tell me how viable it is?