The Future of the World Championships

[Spider-Phoenix]

I think the main issue with Ash's quest here is that... Everything sounds pretty much a mandate. Like they'd much rather have Ash tagging along with Goh and adventuring around but they needed something to give the illusion he's not slacking off as well as following their mandate (the games have been focusing more on the competitive this gen after all).

That also extend from Ash, where since SM all his captures are basically either pokémon that are or will be popular or they promote something new from the gen.

Litten and Rowlett promoted the starters of the new gens with Litten getting the evos - just so players can relate - and Rowlett being the "plush-seller"
Rockruff promoted an upcoming new form
Poipole and Meltan promoted new games

Then Dragonite and Gengar probably duo their popularity and competitive viability (I can see Ash's having Multiscale for some reason), Lucario for fanfic fullfillment popularity and Farfetch'd probably being a mandate.

Not that pre-gen VI captures weren't a mandate but it seems like there was at least some flexibility with things. Like we can give Ash popular/competitive pokémon like Greninja and Talonflame but there's still room for different pokémon like Hawlucha and Goomy (even if his role can be debatable). And if you wanted a previous gen or a different pokémon, there were always the companion.

Compare and contrast with today where it's all the popular pokémon taking slots in the team.

Goh's most often seen pokémon? Cinderace and Sobble, the starters (see my points about Litten and Meltan above)
Ash's most used pokémon? Pikachu and Lucario, with Dragonite "eating around the borders" with appearances every once in a while. Pikachu is the mascot, Lucario is the overhyped glory hog super popular pokémon and Dragonite is the original pseudo, very viable on competitive.
Chloe's pokémon? Yamper and Eevee, plush sellers

At least with previous series we had stuff like Clemont's Bunnelby, who is arguebly more of his ace than Luxray. Dawn had Mamoswine, Iris had Excadrill, Cilan had Crustle and those were all pokémon that while promoting their region, were more of "unexpected presences".

Back to Ash's quests, episodes like today show, to me at least, their intention with Ash is basically "he's a champion already, let him just have fun now". In many ways, it's basically a glorified epilogue of his SM quest and I'd dare saying the PWC is being treated worse than the trials. I mean, at least we saw all trials Ash had to pass meanwhile now we just get a mention of Ash reaching Great Ball class again through the character speaking of it (further helped by some lackluster one-shot battles).

All in all, the premise of PWC is interesting but the execution is clearly flawed and screams - and I say it again: to me at least - more like an order than something the staff is passionate/interested on doing.

 

[LucasMV]

I think the main issue with Ash's quest here is that... Everything sounds pretty much a mandate. Like they'd much rather have Ash tagging along with Goh and adventuring around but they needed something to give the illusion he's not slacking off as well as following their mandate (the games have been focusing more on the competitive this gen after all).

All in all, the premise of PWC is interesting but the execution is clearly flawed and screams - and I say it again: to me at least - more like an order than something the staff is passionate/interested on doing.

You mean the fillers where they just do random stuff in random places, with Go throwing a pokeball at some poor pokemon's face from time to time, and Ash feeling more like a sidekick it's what they would actually like as main plot?

I don't want to believe that. On one hand, considering how they keep hyping the fact that "characters from the past" will return and the nature of the PWC, you'd think that's something they ARE actually looking forward to do or passionate about.
On the other hand, they also hyped Mewtwo's episode and we all know how that turned out.
I'll try to remain hopeful though. Hopefully the next batch of episodes will go back to the PWC.

 

[Leonhart]

You mean the fillers where they just do random stuff in random places, with Go throwing a pokeball at some poor pokemon's face from time to time, and Ash feeling more like a sidekick it's what they would actually like as main plot?

I don't want to believe that. On one hand, considering how they keep hyping the fact that "characters from the past" will return and the nature of the PWC, you'd think that's something they ARE actually looking forward to do or passionate about.
On the other hand, they also hyped Mewtwo's episode and we all know how that turned out.
I'll try to remain hopeful though. Hopefully the next batch of episodes will go back to the PWC.

I personally don't think they're that passionate about their commitment to bringing back old characters. It feels like something that they're doing because it'll interest older fans, but I figure that it's probably a burden to the production team since they have to hire old voice actors again and write scenarios for the returning characters that tie into the plot. The Mewtwo episode in particular felt so lazy and hastily put together that it was like a glimpse at the writers' lethargy from my viewpoint.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

I personally don't think they're that passionate about their commitment to bringing back old characters. It feels like something that they're doing because it'll interest older fans, but I figure that it's probably a burden to the production team since they have to hire old voice actors again and write scenarios for the returning characters that tie into the plot. The Mewtwo episode in particular felt so lazy and hastily put together that it was like a glimpse at the writers' lethargy from my viewpoint.

They really should just write off Ash and reboot the series if bringing back past characters and referencing things from past series is too much of a burden for them.

 

[Master Pikachu 11]

They really should just write off Ash and reboot the series if bringing back past characters and referencing things from past series is too much of a burden for them.

That will never happen since Ash’s Pikachu is the more popular Pikachu. I believe they would end the anime then reboot it with a different character.

 

[PsychoLogical]

They really should just write off Ash and reboot the series if bringing back past characters and referencing things from past series is too much of a burden for them.

It’s technically too late to write off Ash anyways, he now serves as the anime’s marketing ploy. If he goes then so does most of their marketing revenue.

 

[ShadowForce720]

That will never happen since Ash’s Pikachu is the more popular Pikachu. I believe they would end the anime then reboot it with a different character.

No, if they decide to have Ash and his Pikachu leave the anime then they would likely have a new main character take their place. It might mean the end of the current anime, but for the Pokémon anime in general they would likely still have an ongoing anime.

Because at the end of the day if the video games and merchandise is still doing well then the anime would keep going regardless of if Ash is in it or not.

It’s technically too late to write off Ash anyways, he now serves as the anime’s marketing ploy. If he goes then so does most of their marketing revenue.

Not really as the Pokémon biggest profits come from the Pokémon merchandise in general, even if Ash was no longer in the anime the merchandise would still sale because while there is certainly merchandise related to Ash a significant chunk isn’t necessarily tied to Ash.

 

[PsychoLogical]

No, if they decide to have Ash and his Pikachu leave the anime then they would likely have a new main character take their place. It might mean the end of the current anime, but for the Pokémon anime in general they would likely still have an ongoing anime.

Because at the end of the day if the video games and merchandise is still doing well then the anime would keep going regardless of if Ash is in it or not.

Ash is likely never getting replaced anyways, he’s gotten way too iconic to the point that replacing him would likely place more burdens and harm than anything since he basically now serves as the anime’s marketing ploy. If they were to replace him they should’ve done so a long time ago but it’s now basically too late to do so at this point.

 

[ShadowForce720]

Ash is likely never getting replaced anyways, he’s gotten way too iconic to the point that replacing him would likely place more burdens and harm than anything since he basically now serves as the anime’s marketing ploy. If they were to replace him they should’ve done so a long time ago but it’s now basically too late to do so at this point.

Not really, Pokémon would likely be able to survive even if Ash was replaced, because Pokémon is not this fragile franchise that your implying it to be. Sure Ash can help sale merchandise and the anime, but it would be a mistake to think that all the popular Pokémon are popular because of Ash or that a significant amount of the merchandise is specifically reliant on Ash.

The reality is that there are plenty of popular Pokémon that are popular even though they have no ties to Ash, and a significant amount of the general Pokémon merchandise is tied/ related to Ash.

So them replacing Ash in the anime wouldn’t hurt as much as , as your trying to suggest and certainly wouldn’t be this doom for the franchise that your trying to imply it to be.

 

[Ace-Barn]

I personally don't think they're that passionate about their commitment to bringing back old characters. It feels like something that they're doing because it'll interest older fans, but I figure that it's probably a burden to the production team since they have to hire old voice actors again and write scenarios for the returning characters that tie into the plot. The Mewtwo episode in particular felt so lazy and hastily put together that it was like a glimpse at the writers' lethargy from my viewpoint.

Most PWC matches are random encounters.

It's a shame they don't try to work past characters into the PWC. Ash challenging Surges gym, entering the tournament where he faces Korina, and tracking down the Karate Master and Bea were great because they had Ash actively seek out his opponents, they therefore had buildup even if minimal. Proactive protagonists are also typically better than reactive ones.

Ideally most PWC matches would have been tied to a past character. I think the Visquez fight was a great middle ground between referencing past events while introducing new characters. Doing this for other characters would allow the writers to have more flexibility, though I suppose we will see what their plans are for the coming year.

 

[PsychoLogical]

Most PWC matches are random encounters.

It's a shame they don't try to work past characters into the PWC. Ash challenging Surges gym, entering the tournament where he faces Korina, and tracking down the Karate Master and Bea were great because they had Ash actively seek out his opponents, they therefore had buildup even if minimal. Proactive protagonists are also typically better than reactive ones.

Ideally most PWC matches would have been tied to a past character. I think the Visquez fight was a great middle ground between referencing past events while introducing new characters. Doing this for other characters would allow the writers to have more flexibility, though I suppose we will see what their plans are for the coming year.

Year 2/“season 2” would likely be better than year 1/“season 1” to say the least.

 

[Master Pikachu 11]

Not really, Pokémon would likely be able to survive even if Ash was replaced, because Pokémon is not this fragile franchise that your implying it to be. Sure Ash can help sale merchandise and the anime, but it would be a mistake to think that all the popular Pokémon are popular because of Ash or that a significant amount of the merchandise is specifically reliant on Ash.

The reality is that there are plenty of popular Pokémon that are popular even though they have no ties to Ash, and a significant amount of the general Pokémon merchandise is tied/ related to Ash.

So them replacing Ash in the anime wouldn’t hurt as much as , as your trying to suggest and certainly wouldn’t be this doom for the franchise that your trying to imply it to be.

Regardless, if the writers really wanted to write off Ash’s character, they would have done so already after SM, but they left themself an opportunity to continue to use him because they won’t explain what it takes to be a PM. Anyway they will continue to use Ash because his Pikachu is the popular Pikachu and I doubt they would replace it with another Pikachu that acts like Ash’s and since they also went ahead and evolved Goh’s Pikachu then you can rule out him replacing Ash as well. In the end Ash and Pikachu are too marketable and they could have replaced him in the movies just to gauge how the viewers would react to a new character, but they are reliant on using Ash as it would be odd to have Pikachu without Ash kind of like having Scooby-Doo without Shaggy. No matter how possible it is, I don’t see it happening at all and as long as they don’t explain what a PM is then they will continue to use Ash.

 

[U.N. Owen]

I think it’s looking more likely Ash won’t make the masters 8. I think something bad will happen to Ash which forces him to withdraw from the PWC.

Well with the recent darkest day arc and reading some other posts where Rose is trying to rig battles against Ash, anything is possible. We will get Ash vs Leon part 2 but I feel it won’t be part of the World Championship.

Yeah. My idea is that Ash collapses because he pushed himself too much and causes his body to quit on him or he gets the crap beaten out of him by Team Rocket leaving him severely injured. Let's say Team Rocket got mad he would never relinquish Pikachu to them so they go the extreme by shoving him into a rock which severely separates his shoulder then James locks in an arm-bar and snaps his arm bone in half.

Well Team Rocket has mainly been portrayed as the main antagonists since the beginning. They've followed Ash every where so maybe Ash tells them to p**s off but that enrages them so they physically assault Ash.


They're mainly been the antagonists since the beginning of the anime. I think the anime needs to add some R-rated elements to get older fans who grew up watching the show to come back. Besides Team Rocket has gotten stale so I think Ash should have beaten the crap out of them long ago.

Can I get at least some level of rhyme or reason for any of this? I know the anime isn't known for its Shakespearian level of storytelling, but this is a whole lot of madness which makes no sense.

1. Rose has no narrative impact on how the PWC is run and executed. It also makes no sense since that just sounds petty compared to his other schemes.
2. Ash is not Deku. His body isn't going to give out on him, especially since he's on the sidelines and not actively fighting himself. He's not some kind of espresso fueled student working Laplace transformations until three in the morning.
3. TRio doing that is so out of character.
4. R-rated elements does not a good story make. Doing it for the sake of pandering makes no sense. Don't believe me, then I must point you to the 90s era of comics which is titled the Dark Age of Comics because it tried this crap and failed.
5. The level of out of character-ness for Ash is also mindboggling.
6. Adding R-rated elements would scare the crap out of the little kids. Why scare the crap out of your target demographic? That's a failure of writing. There's dark like Digimon Tamers and then there's just senselessness.

 

[Applecorp]

Can I get at least some level of rhyme or reason for any of this? I know the anime isn't known for its Shakespearian level of storytelling, but this is a whole lot of madness which makes no sense.

1. Rose has no narrative impact on how the PWC is run and executed. It also makes no sense since that just sounds petty compared to his other schemes.
2. Ash is not Deku. His body isn't going to give out on him, especially since he's on the sidelines and not actively fighting himself. He's not some kind of espresso fueled student working Laplace transformations until three in the morning.
3. TRio doing that is so out of character.
4. R-rated elements does not a good story make. Doing it for the sake of pandering makes no sense. Don't believe me, then I must point you to the 90s era of comics which is titled the Dark Age of Comics because it tried this crap and failed.
5. The level of out of character-ness for Ash is also mindboggling.
6. Adding R-rated elements would scare the crap out of the little kids. Why scare the crap out of your target demographic? That's a failure of writing. There's dark like Digimon Tamers and then there's just senselessness.

Don't look too far into it. We're talking about someone who has their own personal head canon for the show and believes that their made up character will be Ash's future daughter. So that R-rated fantasy situation that they made up to get Ash out of the PWC tourney shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

Well Team Rocket has mainly been portrayed as the main antagonists since the beginning. They've followed Ash every where so maybe Ash tells them to p**s off but that enrages them so they physically assault Ash.


They're mainly been the antagonists since the beginning of the anime. I think the anime needs to add some R-rated elements to get older fans who grew up watching the show to come back. Besides Team Rocket has gotten stale so I think Ash should have beaten the crap out of them long ago.

Wow I cant.... You should watch another anime then

 

[LucasMV]

Not really, Pokémon would likely be able to survive even if Ash was replaced

I think you're not taking into account how this franchise does things. Pokemon as a whole is very resistant, afraid almost, to changes of any kind in its formula. Not just in the anime, but for the games too.
They have been relying on the same formula with minor changes for ever, changing it up a bit more for gen 7, only to go back to the classic formula again for gen 8.
The Pokemon franchise is not a bold, adventurous one. It likes to mantain the status quo. To keep things the same as they've always been. They have the "why fix something that isn't broken?" mentality.

So getting rid of Ash is a risk I don't think they're willing to take. Else they would've already. Unless the people making the decisions there are swapped for different people, it just won't happen.

Ideally Ash's story could've ended by gen 3-4, at a time where almost everyone watching knew Ash's full story so they could have a consistent storytelling. Having him win a regional League, challenge the E4 using all his pokemon and become Champion.

But they didn't, and the mess began. They thought about soft rebooting Ash in BW, it didn't work. So then we had a competent Ash but with no continuity at all in XY. Then SM in which he was still competent, we got some more continuity (Misty and Brock, some reserves cameo) and finally a League win.
And now in Journeys where they seem to be wanting to embrace continuity more than before, but without going all out because it would be confusing for kids that don't know enough about Ash's past. So we have to put up with vague references, like Mewtwo's episode.

I love Ash and he's the reason I watch the anime. I don't want him to leave, but if it would be done in a respectful way that feels like the story is coming full circle, I'd be all for it.
I thought the PWC would be that, the chance for all of Ash's experience, past rivals, and Pokemon reserves to shine for one last time before going out with a bang, with Ash becoming number 1.

But so far it's not looking like it's gonna be all that. And I don't think even they know how to handle the mess of having 20 something years of continuity that they can't explicitly reference nor pretend it didn't happen either.

 

[Leonhart]

The Pokemon franchise is not a bold, adventurous one. It likes to mantain the status quo. To keep things the same as they've always been. They have the "why fix something that isn't broken?" mentality.

That's what many of us have argued since the DP saga. Obviously the studio can shake things up a bit as they did with the slice-of-life feel of the SM saga or the current "world tour" angle in this series, but I don't think they're daring enough to get rid of Satoshi regardless of whether or not he beats Dande and becomes the new World Champion.

It's my personal belief that they would just introduce a new quest for Satoshi where he faces strong opponents who never competed in the World Championship, or they could just reboot the series with Satoshi as the main character still, but set in a different continuity.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

I hope Ash gets a rematch against Flint using the same team he lost with during the DP remake promotions...

 

[Red and Blue]

So Ash is battling Wikstrom soon. Might be a PWC match. If a an E4 member is in Super Class of all places the competition is going to get tough

 

[thedarkdragon11]

So Ash is battling Wikstrom soon. Might be a PWC match. If a an E4 member is in Super Class of all places the competition is going to get tough

Having an E4 member in the Great Class would justify that ranks in WCS doesn't equate to tiers... Bea is already in the Ultra Class the next time we'll see her...