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The Future of the World Championships

LucasMV

Well-Known Member
-No reserves. Biggest disappointment ever.
-Alain being fodder to Leon instead of having a rematch with Ash.
-Ash facing only 3 opponents, with at least the first one being only 3 vs 3.

Not looking great. But I do like that they're showing every fight.
Well, time to go back to exile since I don't want to have anything else spoiled for the rest of the Tournament. See you guys on the other side, hopefully after a decently enjoyable tournament.
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
I find it funny that the PWC's Champions, er, Masters 8 doesn't have that much of a serious plot line other than beating each other up, but Masters EX did its own Champion reunion take that actually had character development (though just for Iris and co-stars Diantha, but still, it was pretty sweet).


And it wasn't some silly thing like "I'm gonna beat Leon!" "No, ME!" "OH CRAP!"
 

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
Imagine Rainbow Rocket appearing after the finals.

Ash Fighting Giovanni and Mewtwo (probably together with Leon)
Lance Fighting Archie and Kyogre
Steven - Maxie and Groudon
Cynthia - Cyrus and Palkia
Iris - Ghetsis and Reshiram/Kyurem
Diantha - Lysandre and Yyvaltal

Or we get honorable member Volo who fights Leon with his Giratina
 

Irisfan4eva

Member
Imagine Rainbow Rocket appearing after the finals.

Ash Fighting Giovanni and Mewtwo (probably together with Leon)
Lance Fighting Archie and Kyogre
Steven - Maxie and Groudon
Cynthia - Cyrus and Palkia
Iris - Ghetsis and Reshiram/Kyurem
Diantha - Lysandre and Yyvaltal

Or we get honorable member Volo who fights Leon with his Giratina
That's a really good idea.
 
I feel like Alain's MCX will lose to Leon's vanilla Charizard to illustrate who the strongest 'Zard user is. Since Ash is battling Hop in the middle of a M8 match, there might be a small chance of Ash beating Alain in an exhibition match one he gets KO'd. 1vs1, Lucario vs MCX.
Isn’t he battling Hop before?
Only one that can beat MCX is Ash-Greninja. Lucario gtfo. If that happens everyone better be pissed that Lucario beat MCX
 

Irisfan4eva

Member
Isn’t he battling Hop before?
Only one that can beat MCX is Ash-Greninja. Lucario gtfo. If that happens everyone better be pissed that Lucario beat MCX
I'm not sure, I just thought it could be in between the Alain and Leon fight. Lucario has surpassed Ash Greninja now... Aura+Bond mode+Mega evolution is going to be triple the frog's power, unfortunately...
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
That strange fanfic Pokemon you mentioned doesn't exist anymore.

As much as i disliked the whole Ash-Greninja concept, even I can see that most wouldn't accept someone else taking Alain's Charizard down in combat.

That's mostly why i was vocal against them fighting during this (i'd still like to see a rematch but not during a tournament), because regardless of who uses what, I really want the pokemon in every battle to at least be surprising and focused on to some degree.

but with an Ash and Alain rematch you don't get that, people only care about Greninja fighting Charizard, so anyone else that comes into the battle reserves for Ash if he was using them or new guys on Alain's side...they are nothing but dead weight in the way of the "Revenge" match.

speaking of Alain, i've seen elsewhere people saying that depending on how "bad" the beating from Leon's Charizard could go, then Alain would've have to had been cheating back during the kalos league since his Charizard was next to untouchable with only 1 trainer defeat under it's belt, doesn't change the fact he couldn't have known, but even so...
You do realize a lot of weird things in the current series are weird things that people thought would never happen, right.

define this for me? what exactly has been weird?
 

Irisfan4eva

Member
As much as i disliked the whole Ash-Greninja concept, even I can see that most wouldn't accept someone else taking Alain's Charizard down in combat.

That's mostly why i was vocal against them fighting during this (i'd still like to see a rematch but not during a tournament), because regardless of who uses what, I really want the pokemon in every battle to at least be surprising and focused on to some degree.

but with an Ash and Alain rematch you don't get that, people only care about Greninja fighting Charizard, so anyone else that comes into the battle reserves for Ash if he was using them or new guys on Alain's side...they are nothing but dead weight in the way of the "Revenge" match.

speaking of Alain, i've seen elsewhere people saying that depending on how "bad" the beating from Leon's Charizard could go, then Alain would've have to had been cheating back during the kalos league since his Charizard was next to untouchable with only 1 trainer defeat under it's belt, doesn't change the fact he couldn't have known, but even so...


define this for me? what exactly has been weird?
What is the cheating theory again? MCX was super-powerful because it collected all of the Mega energy or something?
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
What is the cheating theory again? MCX was super-powerful because it collected all of the Mega energy or something?

yeah, that's it.

some people feel that not all of the collected energy went to Lysandre and what stayed powered Alain's MCX more than normal, of course there's no proof of this, even if there was it's not like the kalos league victory decision would've been reversed since Alain couldn't have known about that, but still to this day some people feel that's what happened.
 

Sham

The Guardian of War
Erm... while it's nice some fans who feel like Ash should of beat Alain is getting some incongruous pseudo revenge from Leon curb stomping him they really should of just kept Raihan although they probably didn't want Leon having both of his major rivals in here
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
define this for me? what exactly has been weird?
*takes deep breath*

Ash never allowed to fall down in rank number after his tentacle loss montage.
Ash only fighting trainers who matched types in his own little un-switching team + a boring one-on-one against Marnie for some reason (maybe because she had no types to share with him...ignoring her Morpeko).
Ash getting notifications of his next matches against people who conveniently share types with him, meaning he can't fight others on his free will.
Ash never getting sought by lower ranked opponents, even through the notifications he gets.
Ash's every training being the win button he needs to win the next fight he's training for.
Ash never thinking about using his reserves, especially his training Infernape, who was reduced to...a training partner for Gengar.
Ash never fighting a single Alolan trainer for the PWC.
Ash getting more blatant power ups without doing much.
Lucario's DBZ Super Saiyan rip-off because OLM was surely denied a chance to get Ash-Lucario.
Pikachu being hella-ella fine with not fighting important matches since Marnie's fight (it's been 3, or four if we count Raihan and ignore Kukui's). He threw a tantrum for not getting training before (even if the writers wanted him to act OOC). Maybe the writers realized there was no other higher-ranked Electric-type user than Volkner? It could've been Paul easily.
Ash never requesting to fight Cynthia when he first reunited with her. He is reckless enough to do that.
Paul somehow thinking that the PWC is not interesting despite all the world(?) Champions being it it. What more does he want?!
Hop sucking so much that he's only got a Wooloo this far into the saga and was disqualified from the PWC (if he even entered). Like, why?
The Champion Boogaloo at the Masters 8, when we got not even a single hint three other Champions were bothering.
Alain not getting to fight Ash at all and just appearing out of nowhere because he got a Champion title to match the rest.
And perhaps more bizarre, Ash's every fight since Bea being held in a random stadium.
 
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thedarkdragon11

P4P Elite
Imagine Rainbow Rocket appearing after the finals.

Ash Fighting Giovanni and Mewtwo (probably together with Leon)
Lance Fighting Archie and Kyogre
Steven - Maxie and Groudon
Cynthia - Cyrus and Palkia
Iris - Ghetsis and Reshiram/Kyurem
Diantha - Lysandre and Yyvaltal

Or we get honorable member Volo who fights Leon with his Giratina

What if:
  • Giovanni with Mega Mewtwo X vs. Ash
  • Archie with Primal Kyogre vs. Lance
  • Maxie with Primal Groudon vs. Steven
  • Cyrus with Shadow Giratina (like the uncatchable Level 100 Giratina in BDSP) vs. Cynthia
  • Ghetsis with Black Kyurem vs. Iris
  • Lysandre with Perfect Zygarde vs. Diantha
  • Rose with Eternatus Eternamax vs. Leon
  • Matori with Ultra Necrozma vs. Alain (for him to battle a Z-move)
Not happening though...
 

Zweilous

Go-ing for Gold
*takes deep breath*
I disagree with lot of these comments, but I wanna highlight the ones that I feel strongly about.

Ash never getting sought by lower ranked opponents, even through the notifications he gets.
Because it's more rewarding to see Ash battle and defeat people who are higher-ranked and, therefore, have proven strength. But we did see him battle someone who almost certainly had a lower rank than him: Rinto, who had already proven himself to be very strong by defeating him in a battle before.

Ash's every training being the win button he needs to win the next fight he's training for.
You make it sound like he auto-wins the match instantly just because he got a power-up. They didn't grant him instant victory. He still had to work during those matches, even if he was in a much better position with it. The exceptions are Z-Moves and Aura Sphere, and being a climactic move is what they're for. But even then, they were used after Ash brought his enemies down to their last Pokemon through other means.

For example, G-Max put him on par with Marnie's G-Max, all of G-Max Gengar's attacks were deflected or dodged, and Ash had to use the form strategically to weaken Grimmsnarl. The battle actually ended the turn after G-Max Gengar faded. For Mega Lucario, they had to use it strategically, its attacks were often matched, and the win was heavily attributed to Lucario's resolve.

If the issue is that the power-ups are giving him the edge in the first place, I don't think that's an issue either. There's no point in waiting a bunch of episodes to get pay-off, or having his power-up end up being a damp squib. Also, Ash sought out Mega Evolution specifically to deal with threats in the Ultra Class, including Bea. He intentionally sought it out as a power-up to give him an edge.

Ash never thinking about using his reserves, especially his training Infernape, who was reduced to...a training partner for Gengar.
As much as I wanted reserves, Ash constantly neglects them. This isn't a Journeys thing, but a consistent character trait with him. There are also out-of-story reasons why bringing them on is a bad idea.

Lucario's DBZ Super Saiyan rip-off because OLM was surely denied a chance to get Ash-Lucario.
That's not weird or bad. It's a classic anime trope. And it was used to show off Greninja's legacy and importance, by having it help Ash's current team.

Paul somehow thinking that the PWC is not interesting despite all the world(?) Champions being it it. What more does he want?!
The point was that he grew beyond his goal of trying to be the strongest. He's now in a position where he's more interested in learning about Pokemon and imparting knowledge, so other people can improve. It's a great, mellow goal that shows how much Paul has matured.

He SAID he didn't care about festivities, but the show made it clear that there's more to it. He sought out Oak to learn more about Pokemon, he used his match with Ash to secretly prepare him for the Masters Eight, and IIRC he didn't even mention that he was asked be a Gym Leader. Paul had no interest in spelling out his motivations and instead let his actions speak for him.

The Champion Boogaloo at the Masters 8, when we got not even a single hint three other Champions were bothering.
They don't need foreshadowing because they're already the strongest trainers in their respective regions. Even if they didn't appear, people were able to guess and hope because they were the most logical (and popular) choices. Only Iris and Alain were outliers, but they hinted at Iris appearing again. Alain seems to be there for the shock factor, but XY at least showed Alain likes battling and is one of Ash's strongest opponents.
 
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Almighty Zard

He has returned.
*takes deep breath*

Ash never allowed to fall down in rank number after his tentacle loss montage.
Ash only fighting trainers who matched types in his own little un-switching team + a boring one-on-one against Marnie for some reason (maybe because she had no types to share with him...ignoring her Morpeko).
Ash getting notifications of his next matches against people who conveniently share types with him, meaning he can't fight others on his free will.
Ash never getting sought by lower ranked opponents, even through the notifications he gets.
Ash's every training being the win button he needs to win the next fight he's training for.
Ash never thinking about using his reserves, especially his training Infernape, who was reduced to...a training partner for Gengar.
Ash never fighting a single Alolan trainer for the PWC.
Ash getting more blatant power ups without doing much.
Lucario's DBZ Super Saiyan rip-off because OLM was surely denied a chance to get Ash-Lucario.
Pikachu being hella-ella fine with not fighting important matches since Marnie's fight (it's been 3, or four if we count Raihan and ignore Kukui's). He threw a tantrum for not getting training before (even if the writers wanted him to act OOC). Maybe the writers realized there was no other higher-ranked Electric-type user than Volkner? It could've been Paul easily.
Ash never requesting to fight Cynthia when he first reunited with her. He is reckless enough to do that.
Paul somehow thinking that the PWC is not interesting despite all the world(?) Champions being it it. What more does he want?!
Hop sucking so much that he's only got a Wooloo this far into the saga and was disqualified from the PWC (if he even entered). Like, why?
The Champion Boogaloo at the Masters 8, when we got not even a single hint three other Champions were bothering.
Alain not getting to fight Ash at all and just appearing out of nowhere because he got a Champion title to match the rest.
And perhaps more bizarre, Ash's every fight since Bea being held in a random stadium.

most of these sound like personal complaints with JN's, which your fine with on your own personal level, but seriously just cause you don't like this saga doesn't mean others can't find positives to it.
 
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