Manafi's Dream
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This is what we call "moving the goalpost". Your question was "Why should I be able to legislate that a woman I don't know can't choose to abort her unborn child. The point was that I don't know her, therefore I have no right to intrude on her decision. I pointed out that we already legislate concerning myriad people and situations that don't directly relate to us (murder, rape, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc). You made the claim that because I'm not involved in her pregnancy I can't have a say in what she does or does not do. I pointed out that we already have a say in what other people do or do not do, regardless of whether or not we're involved. You moved on to another point.
I didn't "move on to another point." I gave my own response as to why your position is a load of crap. Killing someone maliciously with a gun or knife is wrong, especially when the victim has a life which may include a family. Aborting your baby because you're scared of how big of a change the baby will make in your life isn't malicious; it's human. Fear of the unknown is what makes us who we are. Some people let the fear get the better of them. And sometimes, it's just not fear; it's a person who doesn't want the baby, and a baby saved from a life of no one to love it is better than a baby born into a miserable existence.
Why isn't it the same tihng as a 17 year old getting shot or a woman being strangled? Its a living human being being killed. Sounds the same to me.
See above.
Why would being inside the womb make any difference concerning abortion? Its generally accepted that post 22 weeks most unborn children are completely viable outside the womb. Why should a baby that only gestated 22 weeks and then was born have the right to life, while a baby that has gestated 40 weeks, and is further developed than that 22 week-along baby not have the right to life?
Because once that baby is outside the womb, there's no going back, no second chances for abortion, no nothing, so the mother ends up being stuck with a baby she does not want. That baby is completely there; it's got every characteristic of a newborn baby, and that includes being out of the womb.
Kids have to rely solely on their parents to make decisions until they're at least pre-teens. And legally until they're 17 or 18, depending on where they live. My 7 month old son relies solely on my wife and myself atm. My 5 year old daughter less so, but considering she's autistic, still to a great degree. I have a 2nd cousin who is severely (and I do mean severely) mentally retarded. He's nearly a vegetable. He relies completely on his parents for nearly everything. I guess he can breathe and poop on his own. But unborn children do that too. I can't see how having to rely on your parents for food/shelter/direction/whatever should deny anyone the right to life.
You've tried to use this argument before that some adult humans aren't sentient. Well, if you had noticed in one of my previous posts, I did make the point to say that all humans with normally functioning brains are sentient, avoiding the inclusion of the mentally retarded or comatose.
Second, but that's not true. A lot of children born to parents who don't want them are abandoned by their parents, whether it be to orphanages, grandparents, or someone's doorstep in a basket. Why force a woman to go through a pregnancy she doesn't want only to have the baby be abandoned later?
Untrue. Many children, including both of mine, never went through any labor of any kind. Labor cannot be a requirement for the right to life.
Missing my point. When I said labor, I meant it as a blanket term referring to actually being born.
Unborn children are considered to be alive by myriad outside parties, including the American College of Pediatrics, as well as some states, and in some cases the Federal Government of the United States. No one who knows anything about early life biology believes that unborn children are not alive. We've already been through this.The only reason we don't give them to them now is because there's a high chance that unborn children will not survive. Many pregnancies end in miscarriages. In the early years when the death rate for very young children was much, much higher, we didn't count them in censuses either.
And yet, the official position of the federal government on abortion is summarized in this suit that I'm sure you're familiar with.
If so many pregnancies end in miscarriages, then why tell a woman she can't abort? She's not guaranteed a miscarriage, but she's probably praying for one, so why not give her what she wants and send her on her way?
I have no clue what this is supposed to mean.
As in miscarriages threatening the success of the pregnancy. Yeesh...
if you support equal opportunities for the living
and you understand that unborn humans are, in fact, alive
....
...
???
I support the rights of the truly living, as in anyone who has a life and isn't inside a womb. Are you seriously going to choose to protect the rights of a fetus who isn't even half a year old in most cases over someone who has lived 20+ years and has certain inalienable rights?
I'm sure you'll disagree with some of the points I've made in this post. That's completely understandable. What's not understandable is this idea that the pro-life side of the argument is the losing side of the argument. You've made claims (its okay because unborn children aren't alive/well what about skin cells/its none of your business). I've pretty plainly shot them down (um... yes they are alive/skin cells do not contain the necessary information/we all legislate other issues that don't involve me).
I never argued skin cells. Get your facts straight, or your side comments will become as mixed up as your arguments.
I can't make choices for you, but at what point do the number of arguments in favor of abortion that are just plainly shot down finally cause you (not you, but anyone in general) to question their strongly held positions? How many arguments do you (not you, but anyone in general) have to see shot down before you'll really think over whether or not abortion is justifiable (or when it is justifiable)?
As many arguments as it took the black citizens across this nation to win equal civil rights, and that's the way it will be until extremists like yourself get off their high horse and accept the reality that they're fighting a losing war against liberalism in a world where conservatism has become obsolete.
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