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The great Reserve debate

Bearys

Well-Known Member
Funny that Ash has had more Fighting Types than Grass starters but we write the latter off. Don't see why the status of past Pokémon should prevent Grookey from coming.
if grookey is coming back he should stay as grookey but with insane plot armor. Like grookey can take out arceus. Like grookey could defeat leon. like grookey can defeat GOH CURVEBALL
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Ash doesn't need yet another Grass starter when he can just bring back Snivy or Rowlet and evolve them since they got screwed over in their series because the rival had the same evolutionary line. Hope he gets a Swampert in that Marshtomp episode instead.
What Marshtomp episode?
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
CMButch said:
What Marshtomp episode?

The one that was teased in the latest Opening theme. I don't know why some viewers actually think that Satoshi will catch a Numacraw, though. If it were to happen, they probably would've straight out confirmed it in the same Opening by showing Numacraw among Satoshi's team like how they confirmed Gou getting Flygon by placing it on his team there.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
The one that was teased in the latest Opening theme. I don't know why some viewers actually think that Satoshi will catch a Numacraw, though. If it were to happen, they probably would've straight out confirmed it in the same Opening by showing Numacraw among Satoshi's team like how they confirmed Gou getting Flygon by placing it on his team there.

I mean to be fair if Ash wasn’t getting Marshtomp until 10 episodes or later after the opening was updated in episode 32 then it wouldn’t necessarily show up on Ash’s team in the opening right away.

The openings only tend to show team changes that aren’t to far in advance. Plus the only scene in the opening that had Ash’s Lucario and Goh’s Cinderace was when it showed them going up against Eternamax Eternatus which was a blink and you missed it scene.

Yet they didn’t show up in the part of the openings that showed the actual teams. So considering that the team changes that were depicted in the scenes basically only showed things 6 episodes in advance for the most part if Ash’s is getting a Marshtomp soon I don’t think it would be in the shot showing the teams in the opening since it would be something that is happening 10 or more episodes after the opening was updated.
 

Ace-Barn

#B.B.Tokio&Nickit
The one that was teased in the latest Opening theme. I don't know why some viewers actually think that Satoshi will catch a Numacraw, though. If it were to happen, they probably would've straight out confirmed it in the same Opening by showing Numacraw among Satoshi's team like how they confirmed Gou getting Flygon by placing it on his team there.

Weren't people saying that the Marshtomp scene was based on Marshtomp/ Ludicolo being a meme in Japan that went with the lyrics?
 

LucasMV

Well-Known Member
Riolu has already taken the baby pokemon that is weak and grows to be strong slot on Ash's team. Grookey would be another pokemon which would again require Ash to fight train up from scratch and mind you, the pwc is not like the old regional league. What is he going to do once he starts matching against E4 l level trainers higher up in the ranks?


You seem to have misunderstood what I said. Let me try to better explain.
Every 6 on 6 Pokemon battle usually revolves around 1 main battle. The 2 main Pokemon in this particular battle would be Charizard and Pikachu. If Ash was bringing in his Charizard to challenge Leon's, then it would make absolute sense for him to do the same. However, that scenario is extremely unlikely. Hence, if Ash uses an inferior Charizard which battles some of Leon's weaker pokemon and loses, following which, we have the final battle between Charizard and Pikachu, it take away the spotlight from Leon's Charizard.

In other words, Imagine if Gary had a Blastoise and a Charizard instead of his arcanine, during the Johto League. Assume Gary's Charizard lost to Snorlax during the battle instead of arcanine. This would've taken away the spotlight from Ash's Charizard(Which was his ace during the battle).
Or for example, assume Alain and Sawyer had a Greninja or if Paul had an infernape(which was weaker than Ash's infernape and lost to one of Ash's previous pokemon).

From an anime perspective. A duplicate vs duplicate pokemon battle only works when both the pokemon, hold the same place in the respective teams or have a form of rivalry.

With regard to some of your other comments
1) How exactly do you know that the Charizific Valley has the strongest Charizards in the World? Leon's And Alain's Charizard are far stronger than Ash's and they both didn't come from the Charizific valley.

2) Your second comment about "writers caring about continuity and wanting to put Ash's Charizard against Leon's", simply comes out of Nostalgia. Ash's true ace and first Pokemon is his Pikachu. While Ash has had several aces over the years which have shown to be stronger than Pikachu like, Charizard, Sceptile, Ash Greninja etc, I believe this final battle which gives Ash a chance to be the strongest trainer in the world, should come down to Pikachu. That makes more sense from a story perspective than your take about having Charizard fight Leon's.

He could call the reserves when he gets higher up in the ranks, while he trains the last pokemon he catches this series, if it's one that needs training.

About the other argument, I get what you mean. If the final battle is Pikachu vs Charizard, and it will be, then Ash's Charizard would have to lose at some point before that, thus making the species look "weak". But they could also have it so that Ash's Charizard defeats one of Leon's pokemon and then Leon sends his own Charizard to defeat Ash's. That way they can show Ash's Charizard to be strong, despite losing. That's what they did with Pikachu vs Alain. Pikachu defeated some of Alain's pokemon and Alain sent his Charizard to defeat him, despite Charizard vs Greninja being the main battle on that one, that didn't stop Alain from having to use Charizard to get rid of Ash's 2nd strongest pokemon in that team.

But yeah, I can see Ash using Charizard in previous matches and not that one, cause of the duplicate thing. But I wouldn't rule it out.
Also, about Charizific Valley, it was explicitly stated that the strongest Charizard in the world lived there to train with one another and become stronger. It's obvious that trainer owned Charizards aren't included and some are still stronger, but my point is that Ash's Charizard got incredibly stronger than he was before by training there.

I don't agree that Ash's Charizard is weaker than Alain's either. Without mega evolving involved, of course. Ash's Charizard defeated an Articuno commanded by a FB. And after that, he kept traning and got way stronger than we he defeated Articuno. Remember Iris' Dragonite was shown to be able to take multiple 4x Ice-type attacks from Beartic and Mamoswine like nothing, and defeated each of them with a single attack.
Then came Ash's Charizard and it took Dragonite's most powerful attack (Dragon Rush) head on and wasn't even damaged, completely outsped it when it try to ran away and severely injured Dragonite with a single Dragon Tail. He completely outclassed an stablished OP pokemon. And we can assume that if he comes back for this series later on, he'll be even stronger. Ash's Charizard is no joke.

Lastly, what I meant about continuity is that if we were in DP era (so not that far away from the start of the series), and the premise of the series would be this, a PWC for Ash to challenge the number 1 trainer in the world, who had a Charizard, then I'm sure they would have Ash's Charizard confront him. Since he was just shown in AG, and was his ultimate ace during that time, and everyone watching would definitely know about his story about wanting to become the strongest Charizard and whatnot.
But so many years down the line, they won't go that route simply because a lot of the current audience don't know that much about Ash's past.

But I do agree that Pikachu is his ultimate ace in the end, his best friend and so he should be the one giving Ash his most important victory.
 

SerenaRulez

Well-Known Member
I want to see some of Ash's old Pokemon again but it's hard to pick which ones I think should return. The strong ones that already got a lot of attention would be more helpful in battles but I don't think they need the wins as much as Ash's weaker Pokemon.

So maybe Pokemon like Snivy, Scraggy, Oshawott and other weak ones need to return more so they can battle and evolve. :)
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
SerenaRulez said:
I want to see some of Ash's old Pokemon again but it's hard to pick which ones I think should return. The strong ones that already got a lot of attention would be more helpful in battles but I don't think they need the wins as much as Ash's weaker Pokemon.

So maybe Pokemon like Snivy, Scraggy, Oshawott and other weak ones need to return more so they can battle and evolve. :)

I think the writers are more likely to go with the popular Pokemon that Satoshi owned that also happened to be strong. Viewers can say what they want about "redemption", but I think that the practical solution would just be to bring back the already-established powerhouses.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I think the writers are more likely to go with the popular Pokemon that Satoshi owned that also happened to be strong. Viewers can say what they want about "redemption", but I think that the practical solution would just be to bring back the already-established powerhouses.

Well presuming that they bring back Ash’s reserves, while it is true that the some of his more popular ones would show up, I don’t think it would be the case where it’s only the popular ones show up.


If anything I do think it’s more likely that they would squeeze in some of the less popular ones as well.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
I say all of Ash's Pokemon should get at least one battle
The top 8 is where the big guns get the focus; Charizard, Krookodile, Sceptile, Snorlax, Heracross, Lycanroc, Incineroar, Lucario, Dragonite, Greninja, etc

But they should properly acknowledge all of Ash's Pokemon, not just give them cameos like some did 'training' before the Sinnoh League yet were strangely absent during it. If Ash is fighting COTDs still when his reserves come into play, let's see the reserves get in on that action to showcase them and perhaps evolve certain ones like Gible and Oshawott?

Don't rob Kingler again pls! He didn't even get a cameo in SM! :(
 

Applecorp

Well-Known Member
I want to see some of Ash's old Pokemon again but it's hard to pick which ones I think should return. The strong ones that already got a lot of attention would be more helpful in battles but I don't think they need the wins as much as Ash's weaker Pokemon.

So maybe Pokemon like Snivy, Scraggy, Oshawott and other weak ones need to return more so they can battle and evolve. :)

Some of those weaker Pokemon were like that for a reason because they were meant to be more like plushies than serious battlers.

I don't think any of that will change but maybe if we're lucky Totodile or Oshawott evolved offscreen but that's a big maybe.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Applecorp said:
I don't think any of that will change but maybe if we're lucky Totodile or Oshawott evolved offscreen but that's a big maybe.

Well Waninoko could use a boost since his track record in Jouto wasn't exactly impressive. I still think that he should've evolved in DP either in place of Hinoarashi's evolution, or in addition to it.
 

desdar300

Well-Known Member
Funny that Ash has had more Fighting Types than Grass starters but we write the latter off. Don't see why the status of past Pokémon should prevent Grookey from coming.
Pokemon is one of those things where people say we don't need a lot of things but you'll get them anyways.
People said we didn't need two versions once we move to consoles but guess what happened?
Same thing here
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
With the way goh is getting all the focus and ash team isn’t getting any he’s not making it to top 8 unless he brings back greninja, charizard, infernape, and sceptile as those are his strongest pokemon

That is the main reason why I'm frustrated over all these episodes revolved around captures that just get benched... we should get more PWC episodes! Hopefully after Darkest Day they start being more frequent and we can potentially see Ash beat an older character who we know is strong like Sinnoh BF members, Elite Four members(Seriously Ash should be beating one before he beats a freaking champion! :rolleyes: ), and doubtfully characters who won Leagues like Harrison, Tobias, and Alain(though I just want Ash and him to battle just to battle.... don't toss him into the PWC like they did with the Kalos League)

Cause battling Galar Gym Leaders and a handful of older characters? That ain't gonna cut it. This is the Pokemon World Championship, Ash should be battling people from all over the globe and not just COTDs who pop up in Vermilion and say they're from somewhere else cause that's just lazy. I love Ash and want his possibly inevitable win over Leon to feel earned, this isn't the end for Ash but 'World Champion' is a much bigger deal than the Alola Champion and I have a insanely hard time seeing any of the current team other than Pikachu, Lucario, and possibly Dragonite being able to hold their own against Leon.

I'd also like it if Ash faces Lance, Cynthia, and Diantha in the top 8. If he misses out on fighting any, it should honestly be Alder and Steven since he hardly interacted with those two. We'll see if beating Raihan is how he gets in or not~

And honestly?
Having Pikachu, Charizard, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Dragonite and Gengar fight Lance would be freaking dope!
With Lucario(No Pikachu), Infernape, Torterra, Garchomp, Staraptor and Buizel fighting Cynthia
Pikachu, Talonflame, Hawlucha, Goodra, Noivern, and Greninja fighting Diantha
 

Mirage707

Killing the franchise since 2016.
That is the main reason why I'm frustrated over all these episodes revolved around captures that just get benched... we should get more PWC episodes! Hopefully after Darkest Day they start being more frequent and we can potentially see Ash beat an older character who we know is strong like Sinnoh BF members, Elite Four members(Seriously Ash should be beating one before he beats a freaking champion! :rolleyes: ), and doubtfully characters who won Leagues like Harrison, Tobias, and Alain(though I just want Ash and him to battle just to battle.... don't toss him into the PWC like they did with the Kalos League)

Cause battling Galar Gym Leaders and a handful of older characters? That ain't gonna cut it. This is the Pokemon World Championship, Ash should be battling people from all over the globe and not just COTDs who pop up in Vermilion and say they're from somewhere else cause that's just lazy. I love Ash and want his possibly inevitable win over Leon to feel earned, this isn't the end for Ash but 'World Champion' is a much bigger deal than the Alola Champion and I have a insanely hard time seeing any of the current team other than Pikachu, Lucario, and possibly Dragonite being able to hold their own against Leon.

I'd also like it if Ash faces Lance, Cynthia, and Diantha in the top 8. If he misses out on fighting any, it should honestly be Alder and Steven since he hardly interacted with those two. We'll see if beating Raihan is how he gets in or not~

And honestly?
Having Pikachu, Charizard, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Dragonite and Gengar fight Lance would be freaking dope!
With Lucario(No Pikachu), Infernape, Torterra, Garchomp, Staraptor and Buizel fighting Cynthia
Pikachu, Talonflame, Hawlucha, Goodra, Noivern, and Greninja fighting Diantha
The PWC and Ash is basically getting the Pokemon Contest and May/Dawn/etc treatment where it plays second fiddle to the main event of "exciting" Goh goals. Makes me wonder if the writers ideas for interesting PWC battle episodes already ran out and they're saving them for the Top 16. The Korrina battle was the best one so far this series, but it would've been the worst battle in XY. Easier to write Goh catch things episodes.
 
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