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The great Reserve debate

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LucasMV

Well-Known Member
No way in hell is Ash's Lucario going to sit out this battle lol. If Ash ever does get to the finals and battle Leon, it will definitely be with his newly acquired team if it is a 6 on 6 with the final battle between Pikachu and Charizard. Or it is going to be a 1 vs 1 between Pikachu and Leon's Charizard.
Plus, it would make no sense for Ash to use his OG Kanto team and have him bring an inferior Charizard against an opponent who has the strongest Charizard in the world. Unless there was a rivalry between the two charizards, Ash bringing in Charizard for this battle absolutely makes no sense.


I don't think it would make sense to give Ash grookey or weak pokemon based off how the pwc works. As ash advances up the ranks, his opponents are only going to get stronger. So if they give ash pre-evolved pokemon to use while in the process of battling tougher opponents, it wouldn't really make much sense. Especially cause he already has the Riolu and Farfetch'd.

I agree that it's very unlikely they would bring back Ash's entire OG team for the battle against Leon. That's more something they'd do in AG (exactly what they did with Brandon) and not now, after so much has passed in between.
But I don't agree that Ash would use an entirely newly acquired team, unless he already uses a lot of reserves on the last couple matches leading up to Leon, then I can see it happening (like how the DP team got Paul's battle in Sinnoh, the most important one, while the reserves got their share on other battles).

Also, why would Ash bringing Charizard back for this battle make no sense? The fact that Leon's Charizard is the strongest Charizard in the world doesn't mean anything, cause Leon's Charizard is also the strongest Pokemon in the world, except for the strongest legendaries. So Leon's Charizard is stronger than literally any pokemon Ash could bring to that battle, thus the statement that bringing his own "inferior" Charizard wouldn't make sense... well it doesn't make sense.

Besides, from a plot standpoint, Ash's Charizard was left training in a Valley with all the strongest Charizards in the world, and by this point he's surely the strongest one there. So it would make sense for it to want to test it's strenght against Leon's. I'm sure that if the writters still cared about continuity with the series as a whole, they'd do exactly that actually. Even when it's Pikachu who defeats Leon's Charizard in the end. But it doesn't even have to happen that way really, Charizard could just battle different pokemon of Leon and not his Charizard.

And about the Grookey argument. I see your point, I also thought Ash would get only strong battle-ready pokemon, but then Riolu and Farfetch'd happened. So I think it's quite likely his last pokemon will be one that needs training before becoming stronger too, like Grookey.

I agree with this list completely, however, if Ash does not get Rillaboom then Sceptile would be a great choice to use as well. I still think that he is going to get it and I hope that when he takes on Leon that he has at least one Gen 8 Pokémon on his team since he will be taking on Leon in Galar and it’s the new generation, so I hope that one Gen 8 Pokémon makes the team whether it’s Rillaboom or something else.

It could be Sirfetch'd too.
 

Bearys

Well-Known Member
In reality it’ll be

-Pikachu
-Charizard cause it’s pokemon
-Greninja cause hype and they’ll die if it’s not on there
-Lucario also fan favorite new ace
-Infernape/Sceptile both could fit the narrative
-Prob Dragonite or legendary pokemon
 

Pteranodonte

Well-Known Member
What good would Pigeot do, anyway? He was an average battler at best for most of Kanto when he was on the team prior to evolving, and even when he evolved all he did was strike Onidrill a few times and didn't even manage to knock it out. I find it hard to imagine him getting stronger off-screen while he's part of a flock of wild Poppo and Pigeon, so I personally don't think that him coming back would be anything other than symbolic, and a rather bad strategic choice.
It is up to the writers. If they want they can have Ash defeat Leon's Plotzard with a newly hatched Ferroseed captured in the episode prior to the battle. Arguments like "X Pokèmon is not strong enough" are nosense, people should have realized that after 20+ years.
 

Bearys

Well-Known Member
It is up to the writers. If they want they can have Ash defeat Leon's Plotzard with a newly hatched Ferroseed captured in the episode prior to the battle. Arguments like "X Pokèmon is not strong enough" are nosense, people should have realized that after 20+ years.
newly evolved noibat almost beats zapdos
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
It is up to the writers. If they want they can have Ash defeat Leon's Plotzard with a newly hatched Ferroseed captured in the episode prior to the battle. Arguments like "X Pokèmon is not strong enough" are nosense, people should have realized that after 20+ years.

That’s basically a non argument, considering that can literally be applied to almost anything fictional. Can the writers have a new born Ferroseed beat Leon’s Charizard after just hatching?

Yes, however will they go that route? No, it’s extremely unlikely they would go that route.

And in all honesty your not really adding to the speculation or contributing to anything by coming in here and saying that it’s up to the writers.
newly evolved noibat almost beats zapdos


Except it didn’t as Zapdos likely would have done to Noivern the same thing it did to Hawlucha the only reason it didn’t was because Team Rocket Trio intervened. Also the only reason why Noivern was able to land that attack was because it caught Zapdos off guard.
 

Bearys

Well-Known Member
That’s basically a non argument, considering that can literally be applied to almost anything fictional. Can the writers have a new born Ferroseed beat Leon’s Charizard after just hatching?

Yes, however will they go that route? No, it’s extremely unlikely they would go that route.

And in all honesty your not really adding to the speculation or contributing to anything by coming in here and saying that it’s up to the writers.



Except it didn’t as Zapdos likely would have done to Noivern the same thing it did to Hawlucha the only reason it didn’t was because Team Rocket Trio intervened. Also the only reason why Noivern was able to land that attack was because it caught Zapdos off guard.
zapdos are just weak in general in the anime. It’s funny cause moltres and articuno are portrayed as badasses
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Pteranodonte said:
It is up to the writers. If they want they can have Ash defeat Leon's Plotzard with a newly hatched Ferroseed captured in the episode prior to the battle. Arguments like "X Pokèmon is not strong enough" are nosense, people should have realized that after 20+ years.

The idea that they can do anything isn't particularly sound logic since it can be applied to any situation in this series, but doesn't provide much of a rational argument. Sure they could make the weaker reserves stronger if they want to, but the odds aren't exactly favorable.

There's only so many plot contrivances that they can use to make Satoshi win the battle against Dande [or the other high tier battlers]: if they push too hard and make Satoshi's wins unbelievable, then it'll raise questions about whether those victories are deserved or not.
 

Fernsday

Well-Known Member
What argument? I just said that zapdos are weak in the anime. That was another guy
Wasn’t the case, Noivern had the terrain advantage via echolocation so Zapdos was essentially fighting blindfolded. Its Boomburst did hurt Zapdos as he caught it off guard but as that other guy said, would’ve likely been the same case with Hawlucha or Talonflame being one or two shotted anyways
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
Who is to say that they wouldn't give Ash Grookey or weak Pokemon? Riolu literally hatched and is training to be powerful. Same can be done with that weak Pokemon and why putting Grookey under same basket as weak Pokemon, what if Grookey was strong? Also what if he undergoes fast evolution to become strong Rilaboom. Precisely he has Riolu and Farfetch'd that doesn't mean he's regressing all the time.

Riolu has already taken the baby pokemon that is weak and grows to be strong slot on Ash's team. Grookey would be another pokemon which would again require Ash to fight train up from scratch and mind you, the pwc is not like the old regional league. What is he going to do once he starts matching against E4 l level trainers higher up in the ranks?

I agree that it's very unlikely they would bring back Ash's entire OG team for the battle against Leon. That's more something they'd do in AG (exactly what they did with Brandon) and not now, after so much has passed in between.
But I don't agree that Ash would use an entirely newly acquired team, unless he already uses a lot of reserves on the last couple matches leading up to Leon, then I can see it happening (like how the DP team got Paul's battle in Sinnoh, the most important one, while the reserves got their share on other battles).

Also, why would Ash bringing Charizard back for this battle make no sense? The fact that Leon's Charizard is the strongest Charizard in the world doesn't mean anything, cause Leon's Charizard is also the strongest Pokemon in the world, except for the strongest legendaries. So Leon's Charizard is stronger than literally any pokemon Ash could bring to that battle, thus the statement that bringing his own "inferior" Charizard wouldn't make sense... well it doesn't make sense.

Besides, from a plot standpoint, Ash's Charizard was left training in a Valley with all the strongest Charizards in the world, and by this point he's surely the strongest one there. So it would make sense for it to want to test it's strenght against Leon's. I'm sure that if the writters still cared about continuity with the series as a whole, they'd do exactly that actually. Even when it's Pikachu who defeats Leon's Charizard in the end. But it doesn't even have to happen that way really, Charizard could just battle different pokemon of Leon and not his Charizard.

And about the Grookey argument. I see your point, I also thought Ash would get only strong battle-ready pokemon, but then Riolu and Farfetch'd happened. So I think it's quite likely his last pokemon will be one that needs training before becoming stronger too, like Grookey.



It could be Sirfetch'd too.
You seem to have misunderstood what I said. Let me try to better explain.
Every 6 on 6 Pokemon battle usually revolves around 1 main battle. The 2 main Pokemon in this particular battle would be Charizard and Pikachu. If Ash was bringing in his Charizard to challenge Leon's, then it would make absolute sense for him to do the same. However, that scenario is extremely unlikely. Hence, if Ash uses an inferior Charizard which battles some of Leon's weaker pokemon and loses, following which, we have the final battle between Charizard and Pikachu, it take away the spotlight from Leon's Charizard.

In other words, Imagine if Gary had a Blastoise and a Charizard instead of his arcanine, during the Johto League. Assume Gary's Charizard lost to Snorlax during the battle instead of arcanine. This would've taken away the spotlight from Ash's Charizard(Which was his ace during the battle).
Or for example, assume Alain and Sawyer had a Greninja or if Paul had an infernape(which was weaker than Ash's infernape and lost to one of Ash's previous pokemon).

From an anime perspective. A duplicate vs duplicate pokemon battle only works when both the pokemon, hold the same place in the respective teams or have a form of rivalry.

With regard to some of your other comments
1) How exactly do you know that the Charizific Valley has the strongest Charizards in the World? Leon's And Alain's Charizard are far stronger than Ash's and they both didn't come from the Charizific valley.

2) Your second comment about "writers caring about continuity and wanting to put Ash's Charizard against Leon's", simply comes out of Nostalgia. Ash's true ace and first Pokemon is his Pikachu. While Ash has had several aces over the years which have shown to be stronger than Pikachu like, Charizard, Sceptile, Ash Greninja etc, I believe this final battle which gives Ash a chance to be the strongest trainer in the world, should come down to Pikachu. That makes more sense from a story perspective than your take about having Charizard fight Leon's.
 

Bearys

Well-Known Member
Riolu has already taken the baby pokemon that is weak and grows to be strong slot on Ash's team. Grookey would be another pokemon which would again require Ash to fight train up from scratch and mind you, the pwc is not like the old regional league. What is he going to do once he starts matching against E4 l level trainers higher up in the ranks?


You seem to have misunderstood what I said. Let me try to better explain.
Every 6 on 6 Pokemon battle usually revolves around 1 main battle. The 2 main Pokemon in this particular battle would be Charizard and Pikachu. If Ash was bringing in his Charizard to challenge Leon's, then it would make absolute sense for him to do the same. However, that scenario is extremely unlikely. Hence, if Ash uses an inferior Charizard which battles some of Leon's weaker pokemon and loses, following which, we have the final battle between Charizard and Pikachu, it take away the spotlight from Leon's Charizard.

In other words, Imagine if Gary had a Blastoise and a Charizard instead of his arcanine, during the Johto League. Assume Gary's Charizard lost to Snorlax during the battle instead of arcanine. This would've taken away the spotlight from Ash's Charizard(Which was his ace during the battle).
Or for example, assume Alain and Sawyer had a Greninja or if Paul had an infernape(which was weaker than Ash's infernape and lost to one of Ash's previous pokemon).

From an anime perspective. A duplicate vs duplicate pokemon battle only works when both the pokemon, hold the same place in the respective teams or have a form of rivalry.

With regard to some of your other comments
1) How exactly do you know that the Charizific Valley has the strongest Charizards in the World? Leon's And Alain's Charizard are far stronger than Ash's and they both didn't come from the Charizific valley.

2) Your second comment about "writers caring about continuity and wanting to put Ash's Charizard against Leon's", simply comes out of Nostalgia. Ash's true ace and first Pokemon is his Pikachu. While Ash has had several aces over the years which have shown to be stronger than Pikachu like, Charizard, Sceptile, Ash Greninja etc, I believe this final battle which gives Ash a chance to be the strongest trainer in the world, should come down to Pikachu. That makes more sense from a story perspective than your take about having Charizard fight Leon's.
Pikachu is best ace cause he has plot armor. God damn he’s so inconsistent though
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Bearys said:
maybe, Most likely cause zapdos is portrayed as the weakest legendary bird in the anime. Ash will most likely catch a different type of legendary

You're judging this based on that one episode from XY? In the case of Gou possibly catching Thunder, its power level seems irrelevant since I don't think the episode writer would only take that into account since they might be tempted to have Gou capture Thunder with the usual Pokemon GO method, instead of a battle scenario happening.
 

Bearys

Well-Known Member
You're judging this based on that one episode from XY? In the case of Gou possibly catching Thunder, its power level seems irrelevant since I don't think the episode writer would only take that into account since they might be tempted to have Gou capture Thunder with the usual Pokemon GO method, instead of a battle scenario happening.
I mean there was also that episode in the lake where zapdos was weak as well i think it was in johto
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Riolu has already taken the baby pokemon that is weak and grows to be strong slot on Ash's team. Grookey would be another pokemon which would again require Ash to fight train up from scratch and mind you, the pwc is not like the old regional league. What is he going to do once he starts matching against E4 l level trainers higher up in the ranks.
Grookey can be strong aka Rillaboom if he fights them or Ash can use reserves? Like Charizard or Sceptile. Not to mention that would see Gigamantax Rillaboom which I would like.
 

Mirage707

TPC simping for mobile cash shop money since 2016.
Grookey can be strong aka Rillaboom if he fights them or Ash can use reserves? Like Charizard or Sceptile. Not to mention that would see Gigamantax Rillaboom which I would like.
Ash doesn't need yet another Grass starter when he can just bring back Snivy or Rowlet and evolve them since they got screwed over in their series because the rival had the same evolutionary line. Hope he gets a Swampert in that Marshtomp episode instead.
 

Bearys

Well-Known Member
Ash doesn't need yet another Grass starter when he can just bring back Snivy or Rowlet and evolve them since they got screwed over in their series because the rival had the same evolutionary line. Hope he gets a Swampert in that Marshtomp episode instead.
Honestly i could see him getting marshtomp. It’s not at its useless stage but it’s not at its highest stage so there could be development if you know what i mean
 
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