Ryu Taylor
Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
No matter how much that lie is repeated to me, I'm not going to be fooled by it. Give up.
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The Greatest Z in Alola! Tapu Koko VS Pikachu! (1087)
- Thread starter Serebii
- Start date
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
That's a fact. Saying that the soundtrack for this episode is bad is like saying the soundtrack for the Infernape vs Electivire episode was bad.
Ryu Taylor
Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
Actually, it's more like saying I hate the JP version (especially its "music") of the entire SM saga so much that I am unable to believe anyone unironically enjoys that abomination. And honestly, if the saga's haters have only ever seen it in Japanese, then you know what? It had them coming. It deserves every bad thing Epicocity, Edman, and PRB12 ever said about it.
Oh, and as for that DP episode you mentioned, that's an unfair comparison seeing as how S. Miyazaki still had some talent and competency back then.
RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
People saying how this battle was one of the best Pokémon battles of the decade actually enjoy this """abomination"""
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
What is wrong with you? Have you even seen that episode? How is the music not epic for you?
Ryu Taylor
Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
The battle itself was great. It's the JP music that isn't. It's the same deafening S. Miyazaki noise as the hundreds of episodes preceding it.
As below average as the dub music was in this final part of the biggest battle, I'd gladly take it over something that physically hurts me.
Yes, I saw it, and I've been regretting it for months. I'm wasting my time even bothering to explain, but **** it:
It's loud, annoying, and it hurts my ears, just like everything S. Miyazaki "composed" from XY on. Also, it ran the normally awesome Type Wild into the ground.
And another thing: fans of S. Miyazaki's music get on my nerves in general since they won't accept the fact that not everyone will think it's the most awesome thing ever, and they do every underhanded thing they possibly can to try to make me change my mind. Gotta get over the fact that I have a mind of my own sometime, stans.
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RafaSceptile
Well-Known Member
How is Type: Wild, the most iconic ED of the series and the ED that most represents Ash somewhat below the average of the dub?
Ryu Taylor
Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
It's a good song on its own. I just hate how it got the usual shonen anime treatment (I already mentioned this).
And really, there are many songs in this franchise from all over the world that are better. All the OPs (except XY&Z, Rivals!!, Pokemon World, the DP Rap, and that one SM rap OP South Korea made), for instance.
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
Alright, haven't watched anything the past couple of weeks so I could watch this battle all at once.
So, I will admit, that was pretty good battle. Without any shadow of a doubt, leaps and bounds ahead of anything else we've seen in Alola, it's not even a contest. Unlike most battles we've gotten this series, it actually felt like the choreography of the battle mattered, it wasn't just two Pokémon standing around and trading attacks. There was actual dynamic movement and attack patterns. If Alola could have given us battles of this quality from the beginning, then maybe I wouldn't have been so harsh on it. Well, at least we got one quality battle for entire series.
In a broader sense, I'm not sure I would say this battle can topple any of established best battles, but it's relatively high up there, maybe even the best battle we've seen since Sinnoh.
In regards to the Tapu Koko part specifically, it started off pretty good, but just skidded too a sudden halt once Tapu Koko asked Kukui to use a Z-Move. The Z-Moves had some great spectacle, but that sequence took way too long, and ruined all the momentum the battle had. Now don't get me wrong, it was a treat to see Guardian of Alola animated, but I just wish that sequence had been better integrated. Also, I feel like they didn't make Tapu Koko feel all that powerful for a Legendary Pokémon. Compared to other Legendary Pokémon Ash has officially battled (Brandon's Regis and Tobias' Darkrai and Latios), I just wasn't feeling its strength showing as much (except for the Z-Move, I supose).
Another gripe I had with the battle was Torracat's delayed evolution. What was even the point of having it evolve at that moment? I can only assume that we're never going to see it battle as Inciniroar, which is a crime shame. Why not just have it evolve just a little bit earlier, and actually show it battling in its new form? The way things are left now, it's just awkwardly left with us never seeing it battle. Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy to see that at least one of Ash's starter Pokémon gets to fully evolve (I'm so sorry Rowlet, you were robbed), but I would have liked to actually see it battle as such.
As one final point, I almost feel like it would have been better for the story if Ash had actually lost this battle. He just won a league, so it's not like he's short on things to celebrate. A loss here could be the factor that teaches him that just because he won a league, doesn't mean he's unbeatable, or that his journey is over. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
So, I will admit, that was pretty good battle. Without any shadow of a doubt, leaps and bounds ahead of anything else we've seen in Alola, it's not even a contest. Unlike most battles we've gotten this series, it actually felt like the choreography of the battle mattered, it wasn't just two Pokémon standing around and trading attacks. There was actual dynamic movement and attack patterns. If Alola could have given us battles of this quality from the beginning, then maybe I wouldn't have been so harsh on it. Well, at least we got one quality battle for entire series.
In a broader sense, I'm not sure I would say this battle can topple any of established best battles, but it's relatively high up there, maybe even the best battle we've seen since Sinnoh.
In regards to the Tapu Koko part specifically, it started off pretty good, but just skidded too a sudden halt once Tapu Koko asked Kukui to use a Z-Move. The Z-Moves had some great spectacle, but that sequence took way too long, and ruined all the momentum the battle had. Now don't get me wrong, it was a treat to see Guardian of Alola animated, but I just wish that sequence had been better integrated. Also, I feel like they didn't make Tapu Koko feel all that powerful for a Legendary Pokémon. Compared to other Legendary Pokémon Ash has officially battled (Brandon's Regis and Tobias' Darkrai and Latios), I just wasn't feeling its strength showing as much (except for the Z-Move, I supose).
Another gripe I had with the battle was Torracat's delayed evolution. What was even the point of having it evolve at that moment? I can only assume that we're never going to see it battle as Inciniroar, which is a crime shame. Why not just have it evolve just a little bit earlier, and actually show it battling in its new form? The way things are left now, it's just awkwardly left with us never seeing it battle. Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy to see that at least one of Ash's starter Pokémon gets to fully evolve (I'm so sorry Rowlet, you were robbed), but I would have liked to actually see it battle as such.
As one final point, I almost feel like it would have been better for the story if Ash had actually lost this battle. He just won a league, so it's not like he's short on things to celebrate. A loss here could be the factor that teaches him that just because he won a league, doesn't mean he's unbeatable, or that his journey is over. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Torracat evolving was supposed to be symbolic, it defeated kukui's incineroar so now it gets the belt.
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
Huh, that's a good point. Hadn't thought about it that way at all. Still really wish we actually could have seen it battle, though.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
I think we will in PM2019
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
Don't tell me why (don't want any spoilers), but is there serious reason to believe that, or is that just a personal theory/speculation?
Anyways, I have no doubt that we'll eventually see it battle. My focus was more on seeing it battle during its main series. Feels like a waste to have it evolve, but never battle in the series that focused on it.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
I'll guess I'll tell you my reason later after the next episodes have aired. And torracat evolving was better than it not evolving at all. It is pretty symbolism. Yes it not battling sucks but it isn't a waste to have it evolve.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Doing that would kill Kukui's Incineroar. It's stuck to its body!
Bortgreen
Captain Pikachu is EPIC
It's not all about quality, but about choice
Goldfarb could very well compose some pretty good score for this episode and (the editors?) time it well. No matter what you think about Miyazaki music, he did compose an unique theme for the first half of Tapu vs Pikachu.
But no, in the dub they used the same music as any battle. Imagine the (then overused) Regi Trio theme in this moment. Or the XY battle theme. That's what it felt like.
Even the dub Z-Move theme, a personal favorite of mine among the dub music, could have been used better or even slightly remixed. Maybe even use Challenge of Life in the Z-Move clash, dubbed openings already were used as insert songs too.
I won't say Goldfarb is a trash composer, he just has a different style. But I know he can do better and he or whoever edits the music in the episode can make and choose better music for moments like these. For example, the victory music, even if a bit overused at this point, was ABSOLUTELY FINE.
That said, I have to admit. The choice of music for the JP version was VERY HARD to beat. One of my favorite episodes in terms of soundtrack.
And before someone says something about Miyazaki, he wasn't the one to compose Type: Wild that made the clash absolutely epic
Goldfarb could very well compose some pretty good score for this episode and (the editors?) time it well. No matter what you think about Miyazaki music, he did compose an unique theme for the first half of Tapu vs Pikachu.
But no, in the dub they used the same music as any battle. Imagine the (then overused) Regi Trio theme in this moment. Or the XY battle theme. That's what it felt like.
Even the dub Z-Move theme, a personal favorite of mine among the dub music, could have been used better or even slightly remixed. Maybe even use Challenge of Life in the Z-Move clash, dubbed openings already were used as insert songs too.
I won't say Goldfarb is a trash composer, he just has a different style. But I know he can do better and he or whoever edits the music in the episode can make and choose better music for moments like these. For example, the victory music, even if a bit overused at this point, was ABSOLUTELY FINE.
That said, I have to admit. The choice of music for the JP version was VERY HARD to beat. One of my favorite episodes in terms of soundtrack.
And before someone says something about Miyazaki, he wasn't the one to compose Type: Wild that made the clash absolutely epic
Ryu Taylor
Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
mehmeh1
Not thinking twice!
Doesn't PRB12 actually like the series? and hey! Don't lump him and Epicocity with Edman!
Anyways, this episode proved to me what I already thought about Golfarb's music. I don't really like his battle themes (the z move clash...ugh), but he's great when the setting is calmed down. The 3 themes used when the battle ended were nothing short of amazing.
D
Deleted member 384931
Guest
Its says a lot when you watch a review of Pokemonrangerboy12. How can you even stand his reviews?
Besides did you gave the japanese dub actually a chance? If you like the dub, not the Japanese version, dont complain about the Japanese one and let people who like it let it enjoy
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
I most certainly agree that it's better than it not evolving at all. But at the same time, it could have evolved and still had a little energy left for the battle with Tapu Koko, or they could have set up another episode after the league to give it a battle. It's not like it had to be knocked out in that moment for the symbolism to work.