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The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero - DLC Speculation & Discussion Thread

bruhidk

LARRY SUPREMACY
I always had the impression Sordward and Shielbert were supposed to be annoying and unlikable.
I also get the feeling they were meant to be incompetent too, I know pokemon has had some goofy hairstyles in the past but no villain meant to be a serious threat would have literal sword/shield hair, but I'm still not the biggest fan of them, I would have preferred a more serious threat since Team Yell and Rose weren't exactly villains
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
Not every story needs a scowling, cackling villain. There were reasons why Chairman Rose didn't work out that well as an antagonist, but he was still an antagonist, even though his intentions were noble. (Note that an antagonist is not necessarily a villain, nor a villain an antagonist.)

Heck, some stories work very well without any antagonist or villain. Encanto has none, for instance. The source of the conflict is tension between family members and varying ideas about what to do with their powers (or, in the case of Mirabel, her lack thereof).
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Interesting
Apparently paradox Suicune and Virizion don't look like the sketches we saw of them. To the point were they have different body types. This came from Khu
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
Not every story needs a scowling, cackling villain. There were reasons why Chairman Rose didn't work out that well as an antagonist, but he was still an antagonist, even though his intentions were noble. (Note that an antagonist is not necessarily a villain, nor a villain an antagonist.)

Heck, some stories work very well without any antagonist or villain. Encanto has none, for instance. The source of the conflict is tension between family members and varying ideas about what to do with their powers (or, in the case of Mirabel, her lack thereof).
Alice in Wonderland has no true “villain” unless you count pure chaos as being bad and you need some order in life. The Queen of Hearts isn’t a villain at all and yeah she says “Off with your head” a lot but in the book, it is clearly stated that no one ever gets killed and it’s just some quirky thing that the Queen says. Also it’s Wonderland where absolutely nothing is ever as it sounds or should be. “Off with your head” could really mean getting a haircut or having your hat forcibly taken off your head. Every story has some sort of conflict and usually an antagonist but being an antagonist does not always mean that person or thing is the villain. This is also why Puss In Boots Last Wish is such a good story in that there are technically six antagonists in the movie but only one is truly a villain as four of them are just rivals for Puss and the one that poses the biggest threat after the main antagonist is just doing his job and isn’t actually good or evil.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Alice in Wonderland has no true “villain” unless you count pure chaos as being bad and you need some order in life. The Queen of Hearts isn’t a villain at all and yeah she says “Off with your head” a lot but in the book, it is clearly stated that no one ever gets killed and it’s just some quirky thing that the Queen says. Also it’s Wonderland where absolutely nothing is ever as it sounds or should be. “Off with your head” could really mean getting a haircut or having your hat forcibly taken off your head. Every story has some sort of conflict and usually an antagonist but being an antagonist does not always mean that person or thing is the villain. This is also why Puss In Boots Last Wish is such a good story in that there are technically six antagonists in the movie but only one is truly a villain as four of them are just rivals for Puss and the one that poses the biggest threat after the main antagonist is just doing his job and isn’t actually good or evil.

Gone with the Wind doesn't have a villain or antagonist either. There's some instances where Scarlet gets menaced by people, but they are brief and the people in question never show up again. The real dangers and problems of the overarching plot arise from the absolutely f****-up society the book takes place in and the general chaos of war and post-war periods, without being tied to specific characters. Well, and from Scarlett herself. In some ways Scarlett's her own antagonist.

Then again from a modern POV most of the characters in the book are villains, since they are slave owners and never repent from that position, but that was not the intention of the author.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
Interesting
Apparently paradox Suicune and Virizion don't look like the sketches we saw of them. To the point were they have different body types. This came from Khu

Which is interesting (assuming its true which I think seems likely) but raises lots more questions. I've also seen it suggested that if they are radically different from how they seemed to be in the book then its also possible that what little we get of what seems to be the third legendary in the book is inaccurate within the book as well.
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
This is also why Puss In Boots Last Wish is such a good story in that there are technically six antagonists in the movie but only one is truly a villain as four of them are just rivals for Puss and the one that poses the biggest threat after the main antagonist is just doing his job and isn’t actually good or evil.
Which makes the movie a good example of what exactly an antagonist does (and which one is the antagonist depends on your interpretation--there can only be one antagonist at a time in a story, though there can be multiple villains).

Goldilocks and the Three Bears, Death, and Jack Horner all directly oppose Puss in some way, but the way they affect Puss is very different. Jack is the most straightforward villain, a vile, despicable corrupt corporate executive who happens to desire the same thing as Puss (a wish from the star), but with much, much less noble purposes, and gives Puss an idea of the sort of stakes a wish from the star can have, teaching him how not to be selfish. Goldilocks and the Three Bears technically never wanted to be opposed to Puss in the first place but wind up so out of circumstance; the way they get along with each other so well (most of the time, at least) teaches Puss how to get along with his own traveling companions. Death is the only villain not after a wish, but rather, he's after Puss himself, and the duel between Puss and Death is of Puss learning to accept he will have to die someday and that he can't be a hero to the towksfolk forever.

That is, which party is the antagonist--Jack, Goldilocks (who is the leader of the four of them and would thus drive the conflict in that regard), or Death--depends on which conflict of Puss's you consider the most important. Is it getting the wish from the star, learning how to work together with other people, or learning to accept the inevitability of death? His initial goal, to wish for more lives from the star, highlights his flaws in all three that he grows as a character in (as his pride, the reason why he's unable to cooperate with others, was also the cause of most of his eight previous deaths).

Gone with the Wind doesn't have a villain or antagonist either. There's some instances where Scarlet gets menaced by people, but they are brief and the people in question never show up again. The real dangers and problems of the overarching plot arise from the absolutely f****-up society the book takes place in and the general chaos of war and post-war periods, without being tied to specific characters. Well, and from Scarlett herself. In some ways Scarlett's her own antagonist.

Then again from a modern POV most of the characters in the book are villains, since they are slave owners and never repent from that position, but that was not the intention of the author.
I want to point out that narratologists prefer the phrase "antagonistic force" because it covers cases like these. An antagonist is a character, different from the protagonist, who directly causes the conflict for the protagonist, but an antagonistic force doesn't have to be a character. It could be a trait of the protagonist (as is your example with Gone with the Wind, and Hamlet is another example in which the real source of Hamlet's conflict is his own desire to be king), or it could be unforeseen circumstances not caused by any characters (most of H.P. Lovecraft's works fall in this category, with no malice found in even The Old Ones, and the conflict comes from the humans not having the means to properly comprehend them). Together, this makes up the Three Conflicts: "Man vs. Man," "Man vs. Self," and "Man vs. Nature."

And for anyone here who's read this far and is curious about narrative terminology: "villain" is distinct from an "antagonist." Villains are antagonists most of the time, but not all of the time. A villain is a character who has evil, selfish, and/or immoral motives and acts upon them, and the story must depict their actions as bad. If the story happens to focus on such a character, you can have a villainous antagonist. Light in Death Note feels superior to everybody and wants to rule the world to enforce his own morality on everyone, but the story is about him. Crow in Nefarious is a mad scientist who wants to take over kingdoms by kidnapping their princesses and fighting the kingdoms' heroes. In both cases they are villainous protagonists. (Similarly, L in Death Note is a heroic antagonist due to both directly opposing Light and wanting to do so because he considers Light as a threat to the world who must be stopped.)
 

PsychoLogical

Black and White, Yin and Yang, Light and Dark.
Have their been any leaks about what Monday’s Pokémon Presents will cover?
no. Gonna have to do it the traditional way and wait it out. Unless some guy just decides to leak the entire thing a day early or a few hours before it starts.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
no. Gonna have to do it the traditional way and wait it out. Unless some guy just decides to leak the entire thing a day early or a few hours before it starts.
Figured that was the case. Haven’t been a lot of reputable leaks on the game side lately.
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
Figured that was the case. Haven’t been a lot of reputable leaks on the game side lately.
To be fair, most video game franchises don't get leaked left and right the way Pokémon games do. Many of them will get a leak here and there, but they are unique, or at least occasional, and not the river of them the Pokémon games get!
 

bruhidk

LARRY SUPREMACY
Have their been any leaks about what Monday’s Pokémon Presents will cover?
There's a blatantly false 4chan leak about BW remakes coming this year, DP being added on switch online, SV DLC being released in spring and summer, and....Cafe Re-Remix...wait this might actually be true!
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
I very much hope we get a new environment should Scarlet & Violet receive DLC, but I can't for the life of me figure out what that could be.

I would love for us to return to Kalos, even if it's just the southern portion, but that's highly unlikely. lol In terms of real-world perspective, the only areas I could see being represented as DLC are the Balearic Islands and Northern Morocco. I'd love to see the latter, especially with connections to Alfornada.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I very much hope we get a new environment should Scarlet & Violet receive DLC, but I can't for the life of me figure out what that could be.

I would love for us to return to Kalos, even if it's just the southern portion, but that's highly unlikely. lol In terms of real-world perspective, the only areas I could see being represented as DLC are the Balearic Islands and Northern Morocco. I'd love to see the latter, especially with connections to Alfornada.
I think we will go even deeper into Area Zero specifically the crystal cavern section. It’s extremely empty aside from the building with the time machine and crystals and it feels like there is definitely some huge secret still hiding in the area which is probably the third legendary. The huge crystal sections that are basically individual cliffs are wider that you’d expect them to be and big enough to secretly have a cave or cavern inside where hidden Pokémon are living and possibly where the Paradox Pokémon come from as we know that the time machine created portals when it was still running and that where the Paradox forms emerged. It was never stated that the portal was in the same room as the machine and it could have easily created a time rift outside the lab.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
I think we will go even deeper into Area Zero specifically the crystal cavern section. It’s extremely empty aside from the building with the time machine and crystals and it feels like there is definitely some huge secret still hiding in the area which is probably the third legendary. The huge crystal sections that are basically individual cliffs are wider that you’d expect them to be and big enough to secretly have a cave or cavern inside where hidden Pokémon are living and possibly where the Paradox Pokémon come from as we know that the time machine created portals when it was still running and that where the Paradox forms emerged. It was never stated that the portal was in the same room as the machine and it could have easily created a time rift outside the lab.

That is so not enough for [what I assume will be] $30 DLC. The Isle of Armor & The Crown Tundra were, to me, one of the best examples of how DLC should be. It was something we actually needed to pay for. That's what I'm hoping for.
 

Pikasaur

Lazy Summer
Perhaps that new Anime Professor Friede, that was just revealed will be in the DLC Somewhere?

Maybe why they didn't reveal him until a few days before Pokemon Day.
 
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PsychoLogical

Black and White, Yin and Yang, Light and Dark.
That is so not enough for [what I assume will be] $30 DLC. The Isle of Armor & The Crown Tundra were, to me, one of the best examples of how DLC should be. It was something we actually needed to pay for. That's what I'm hoping for.
eh, supposedly; the SV DLC is going to be "big". Although there's barely any context regarding how etc.
 
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