The huge problem with the argument for Pokemon Let's Go appealing to casuals.

[shoz999]

Yes, the fact that you were discussing niche market instead of niche audience, which I distinctively worded.

A niche audience refers less to niche marketing, and more to the word niche itself: 'of or relating to something precise or exclusive to the interests of a small section of a population.' By saying niche audience, I am literally saying "an audience that is niche in nature." A niche market, as we both know, is aimed at anyone within that market's entire demographic. A niche audience is smaller than that demographic.

The Pokémon fanbase is niche because it is incredibly close nit and unique in its interests for gaming quality and satisfaction, due to Pokémon itself being very unique in its quality of gameplay mechanics. Many players within the audience may not play much else beyond Pokémon, for that very reason.

With that being said, I'll have to note that Let's GO is in no way seeking sales within niche market, as Masuda himself stated he wanted to attract all kinds of people, rather than just those interested in RPGs. This is why the game is as casual as it is; much like Pokémon GO, it is for those who don't necessarily fit Nintendo's niche market. Will it work? Probably not. I'm certain the game will only attract those within the niche market, but there are enough people within the market besides Pokémon's niche audience to garner massive sales.

Okay than. Thank you for clearing that up. Well than there's something that's kind of been bothering me. The thesis for my original argument was that the problem with people saying GameFreak is genius for making Pokemon Let's GO "casual-friendly", but it really isn't since it lacks the fun difficulty and quality, is that the Pokemon series has always been casual and a better more enjoyable experience for casuals than Pokemon Let's Go is trying to be. On the other hand it seems this forum has split up into a different direction, how Pokemon Let's Go will affect the brand and for some, a few think I'm saying that Pokemon Let's Go will get bad sales even though I've never said that once. Was your response of the simple fact that Pokemon has always had a niche audience to the original thesis or the responses, including mines, of how it will affect the brand?

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

Okay than. Thank you for clearing that up. Well than there's something that's kind of been bothering me. The thesis for my original argument was that the problem with people saying GameFreak is genius for making Pokemon Let's GO "casual-friendly", but it really isn't since it lacks the fun difficulty and quality, is that the Pokemon series has always been casual and a better more enjoyable experience for casuals than Pokemon Let's Go is trying to be. On the other hand it seems this forum has split up into a different direction, how Pokemon Let's Go will affect the brand and for some, a few think I'm saying that Pokemon Let's Go will get bad sales even though I've never said that once. Was your response of the simple fact that Pokemon has always had a niche audience to the original thesis or the responses, including mines, of how it will affect the brand?

My point was Let's GO's quality has no negative impact of any kind on the series, even if you are correct that it's not the experience Game Freak wants it to be, and the reason is the niche audience. No matter what, that audience will remain loyal to the series, and will continue to keep the franchise on top.

I mean, with all the complaints about Gen 5, Gen 6, and Gen 7, we are all still excited for Gen 8. Let's GO won't change that.

 

[shoz999]

My point was Let's GO's quality has no negative impact of any kind on the series, even if you are correct that it's not the experience Game Freak wants it to be, and the reason is the niche audience. No matter what, that audience will remain loyal to the series, and will continue to keep the franchise on top.

I mean, with all the complaints about Gen 5, Gen 6, and Gen 7, we are all still excited for Gen 8. Let's GO won't change that.

Alright! You mostly convinced me. Even though the core series will always be there for the niche audience. I'm still not completely sure about the quality of Let's Go having absolutely no negative impacts. It's still hard to ignore the variables though that could hurt the growth of the niche audience or possibly increase it through a shotgun effect. Then there's the fact that GameFreak's idea of what casual is now and casual is back than might impact on the core series. They did it with 6th gen, they could do it in 8th gen. Still. It'll be interesting to see how it evolves alongside the core series. Pokemon does have that luxury of both experimentation and keeping the more faithful series of games for fans to ensure a loyal fanbase that other game series like Fallout or Sonic don't have at all.

 

[Creyk]

Lol. This is not the first spin off and it certainly won't be the last. If it really is that bad people won't buy it and it will go away. Problem solved.
If they do sell well they might make more but you still don't have to worry since they will still make core games.

These will replace the core games, the 2019 games could be the last traditional pokemon game we ever see if this does well.

 

[shoz999]

These will replace the core games, the 2019 games could be the last traditional pokemon game we ever see if this does well.

Gawd... now I'm depressed...

 

[Akashin]

Gawd... now I'm depressed...

...Why, when GameFreak themselves have already out-lined the potential end result of these games doing well, do people continue to believe that that is a remote likelihood? It's not. The core games aren't going to change in any significant way as a result of Let's Go; people with a lot more say on the matter than a handful of forum members have said as much.

I mean, people are free to fret and worry over this if they want, I suppose. It makes no difference to me. I'm just not really sure what the point of doing so is when we've already gotten official word on that.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

There's a big gap between official words and what people know. I personally don't know Japanese, nor do I have a clue where to even find all these supposed interviews. All I have to go on is other people on this forum saying "They said this and that" without a good sense of which people on these forums are actually informed and which ones are just spreading nonsense. There's a big language barrier to Japanese. Serebii also shares pretty much no updates regarding these things as news either. All that I see is quotes that can be taken in different directions and interpretations if you lack context, and there are translation uncertainties on top of that. It was also for quite a while that it was 'officially stated' by the mods in this forum that Let's Go would have no online capabilities whatsoever.

 

[shoz999]

...Why, when GameFreak themselves have already out-lined the potential end result of these games doing well, do people continue to believe that that is a remote likelihood? It's not. The core games aren't going to change in any significant way as a result of Let's Go; people with a lot more say on the matter than a handful of forum members have said as much.

I mean, people are free to fret and worry over this if they want, I suppose. It makes no difference to me. I'm just not really sure what the point of doing so is when we've already gotten official word on that.

That was supposed to be a joke response about how some people talk in a blunt annoying way... and now I've explained the joke. Hmm.....

 

[BCVM22]

These will replace the core games, the 2019 games could be the last traditional pokemon game we ever see if this does well.

There is zero reason to believe this beyond baseless pessimism and sensationalism in the name of trying to invent more reasons to crap all over these games. But you do you.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

These will replace the core games, the 2019 games could be the last traditional pokemon game we ever see if this does well.

Musda literally said if the game is successful, it will become a spin-off.

Enough with the fearmongering, alright?

 

[Creyk]

Musda literally said if the game is successful, it will become a spin-off.

Enough with the fearmongering, alright?

It is obvious that he has wanted to simplify the games for a decade now. These games are his jupiter. If they succeed, it will happen. And pokemon games as we know them will be gone.

 

[Sαpphire]

I have a lot more thoughts relevant to this thread but I'll get to them later, in another post.

These will replace the core games, the 2019 games could be the last traditional pokemon game we ever see if this does well.

It is obvious that he has wanted to simplify the games for a decade now. These games are his jupiter. If they succeed, it will happen. And pokemon games as we know them will be gone.

So a decade ago, Platinum and HGSS were well into development, with Gen 5 on the horizon. I'm not sure any of those support your theory - X and Y, as well as the lack of a Frontier in ORAS, are the only ones that really do.

More to the point, though, isn't this all directly contradicted by the mere existence of the 2019 games and two separate development streams? They're not going to stop making the "harder" half of the main series if it still sells boat loads and makes them tons of money - not when those games have been the primary driver of creative growth at Game Freak throughout the series' life time. They're smart enough to know that a strong long-term strategy wouldn't consist of only producing the easier games just because they might make more money.

There's absolutely nothing to worry about - and these games have no indication of actually being bad, anyway. All is going fine!

 

[TwilightSpooky]

I didn't read the full 2 pages so excuse me if my points have been discussed but I'm responding to op and original questions.

I don't think marketing let's go for casual players is genius but I do think its necessary. I disagree with pokemon games have always been for casual players. In first and second gens, yeah I can see that. But the game and a certain part of the player demographic has evolved (pun intended) since then, adding in game mechanics that casual players really don't care about. The problem is most evident in Sun and Moon. Nintendo/Gamefreak tried to sell the game to new/casual players at cost of keeping up with expectations of older/hardcore players. At same time they tried to shove in a bunch of new mechanics and plotlines which ended up bogging the game down imo.

I've heard the theory going round that Nintendo is taking the pokemon games in a split path. They'll release a game targeting new and casual players (Let's Go) and another for longtime players (2019 gen 8 game). I think it's likely what they're doing as well and I approve of it.

How much of a success it will be is uncertain but this tactic has worked really well for other Nintendo franchises, so I doubt it will flop.

And to add, I've already pre ordered my copy. I know I'm not the fan base it's meant to appeal to and I think the pokemon go aspect is gimmicky, not bad just gimmicky, but I've been wanting a pokemon yellow remake forever. So yup the yellow rat got my wallet again.

 

[Nockturne]

It is obvious that he has wanted to simplify the games for a decade now. These games are his jupiter. If they succeed, it will happen. And pokemon games as we know them will be gone.

Why would they get rid of one wildly successful format in favour of another wildly successful format (assuming LGPE are wildly successful) when they can just make and release both types of games?

The Let's Go games may just be replacing remakes in the Generation cycle. And if they aren't then that means GameFreak can get away with making, and more importantly SELLING, a pair a brand new games, a pair of remakes of old games AND a pair of simplified, GO integrated remakes of old games every generation. Your argument that they'll drop a format that still sells makes no sense business wise, when they can conceivably get away with selling Pokemon games AND "PokemonLITE" games.

 

[Sαpphire]

I think another thing to note is that while Pokémon has never been difficult, it's progressively raised its barrier to entry just a little bit each time. To really jump into it with a whopping 800+ species, seven regions, 28 or 29 main series games, and a plethora of important characters spanning two decades... is a lot. I'm sure it can be a lot for people. It's no worse than some other game series out there, but it's nowhere near as concise and catchy (insofar as that term can be applied to games rather than music) as, say:

• The Legend of Zelda: three core characters cycling through interactions of one central conflict
• Mario: a very similar set of three core characters and a small cast of prominent side characters like Yoshi and Toad, with the usual plot being some version of traveling several dangerous worlds to save Peach from Bowser
• Smash Bros.: a relatively similar or consistent roster, with the same core functionality and general presentation for every title so far, except that one time they tried a campaign and apparently only I liked it

Those are just some Nintendo IPs that are huge that keep a lot of things simpler than Pokémon does. Sure, lots of Nintendo IPs also get plenty complicated as well, but my point here is this -

These games are less of a "for the casuals" kind of deal than a simple entry point. Pokémon might never have been really overwhelming with information or detail, but they take what they can throw out and they get rid of it. They boil it down to the essentials required to produce the series' core experience. And then they throw in some Go features, both to make it easy for those players to translate their experience over to a console, and to get them to buy the game. What Game Fresk seems to seem as the core features of the series, then, are: collecting and catching, as with the original "gotta catch 'em all" slogan; battling other trainers, which as far as we know is no different; and the original 151, which we've always kind of known they value more highly than the rest. You might disagree, or you might just not like it, but this is more or less a game that's more in line with traditional or stereotypical Nintendo branding than with the traditional Game Freak approach. Nintendo wants something that they think has a legitimate shot at challenging Odyssey's commercial success in the long run, and they think it's done by making the games straightforward and emphasizing the most significant elements, followed by adding a couple cute twists like the following Pokémon, the out-of-ball partner, Go captures, etc.

This is all wholly speculative and theoretical on my part, but maybe thinking about it this way makes it a little less audacious or rude or disingenuous to some of you who've taken issue with the "casual" orientation of these games. It's not about you or me, or changing the series we love, or trying to pretend that this is our ideal version of the games- it's about putting out a fun, social game that literally just about anyone can pick up, play, finish, and enjoy.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

It is obvious that he has wanted to simplify the games for a decade now. These games are his jupiter. If they succeed, it will happen. And pokemon games as we know them will be gone.

So, what? Masuda's just gonna scrap the core RPG he's been working on for two and a half years and just replicate Let's GO simply because it sold well?

I mean come on. Be serious, man.

 

[Creyk]

So, what? Masuda's just gonna scrap the core RPG he's been working on for two and a half years and just replicate Let's GO simply because it sold well?

I mean come on. Be serious, man.

I obviously meant the games following the 2019 one.
Like come on.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

I obviously meant the games following the 2019 one.
Like come on.

It doesn't matter which games you're talking about, you're not making any sense.

For one, generations are made back to back, often simultaneously. As the 2019 title is being completed now, Gen 9 is being drafted. That's how it works. Game Freak always plans several years ahead.
Two, Masuda has already stated his intentions for both Let's GO and the main series. I've already explained to you what those intentions are. I don't understand why you insist on ignoring Masuda's clear words for fear mongering.
Third, and finally, we all know Let's GO is going to sell, Masuda included, so the man is not going to abruptly change his plans for something he's already expecting to happen.

Case in point, you're not being realistic, dude.

 

[shoz999]

It is obvious that he has wanted to simplify the games for a decade now. These games are his jupiter. If they succeed, it will happen. And pokemon games as we know them will be gone.

Nope. He's put great care and depth to all his Pokemon games. It's casualizing the more hardcore aspects, like post-game, you should be worried about.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I think the larger problem with Game Freak appealing to casuals with this game is that it's blatantly targeted at mobile gamers and mobile gamers probably aren't going to be interested in a Switch. As Game Freak themselves have pointed out in past interviews, the reason for mobile's sheer popularity is that it offers a general entertainment package including not just video games, but movies, music, internet, social media, etc. And it does all of that for free. The Switch, on the other hand, is purely video game focused and you have to pay $20-$60 for most of its games. So how many of those people are going to buy a Switch? Probably not a lot. Go fans are probably not the right target audience for a Switch game and I doubt they'll really move the needle on sales for the 2019 games. It'd be smarter for Game Freak to target longtime Pokemon fans who already bought their handheld games and console gamers that played on platforms such as the Wii or Xbox/Playstation lines.

As for LG replacing the main games, if LG were to outsell the main games, it replacing the main games would be perfectly reasonable. Businesses don't just look at what type of game is profitable, but what type of game is most profitable and if they see that the LG games are consistently making them more money (especially at a lower cost, which the LG games do seem to be fairly cheap), they're going to shift to them and maximize their profits. So the concern is real from a business standpoint despite the PR indicating otherwise.