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The huge problem with the argument for Pokemon Let's Go appealing to casuals.

Discussion in 'Let's Go, Pikachu & Eevee' started by shoz999, Jun 16, 2018.


Are you excited by this new detailed cinematic 3D adventure take on Kanto?

Poll closed Sep 2, 2018.
  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
  1. shoz999

    shoz999 Sonic's the name! Speed's my game!

    Understandable. However, you never really "returned" to this Kanto hehehe. Unlike all the other Kanto content that felt somewhat forced, this feels more like a proper remake, from the trailers anyway, with a lot of care and thought put into the design of the region to make Kanto feel somewhat like a new region. I wish I could say the same for the rest of the game's features, heck it might be almost the perfect Kanto remake if they kept the traditional stuff in, but I can't help but be intrigued of exploring this new Kanto.
  2. ArtFenix

    ArtFenix Well-Known Member

    I don't really find this one "a more detailed cinematic". Sure, it's got better graphics than Fire Red/Leaf Green (or HG/SS), but it's still pretty much 1:1 copy of the original region. IF they heavily revamped it, made it bigger, gave you more freedom, created actually realistic environment and people (by realistic people I mean the ones like in SM or Zelda: Breath of the Wild), then sure, I could call it detailed and cinematic. Alas.
  3. shoz999

    shoz999 Sonic's the name! Speed's my game!

    Oh I know what you mean. One of my dream games is an adaptation of Pokemon Adventures featuring Breath of the Wild movements with Platinum-style action. Imagine standing on top of the tallest mountain of Kanto, the un-named and currently unavailable mountain that makes up the rock tunnel as Red. It's night-time and you can see all of Kanto from that tall point. The mountainous terrain below, the Pokemon Tower, the giant skyscrapers of Saffron City, the windy greenfields of Pallet Town, the beach cities of Fuschia and Vermillion City. The islands of Cinnabar Island and even the ship of the S.S. Anne prepared to take off to the Sevii Isles on a scheduled timing all under the star-starry sky. What happens next is that Red gets on his Aerodactyl, and dives down the unnamed mountain only to get a huge speed boost, flying past Lavender Town and across the rivers that make up the pier route nearby, travelling past the huge windy breezes that echoes across the Saffron Skyscrapers like a windy tunnel all the way to Pallet Town full of vast flowery fields, windmills, farmlands, grocery markets and the Professor's lab of course with a Pokemon Ranch at the backdoor full of the Pokemon you caught on your travels, an advanced version of Pokemon amie/Pokemon ranch. That's my idea for the Pokemon Adventures tech demo actually lol! However, I think the Let's Go titles are a step into the right direction, hinting that the 8th generation will have a much more cinematic-style of storytelling and world-building.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
    ArtFenix likes this.
  4. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    The graphics certainly look good, but my main issue with these games is their content and storyline so far, which isn't that much different from the previous Kanto games. So I can't say that they interest me that much since I'm overwhelmed by Kanto at this point.
  5. Storm the Lycanroc

    Storm the Lycanroc Unova Bound

    One thing I'm wondering is how many members of the development team if any originally worked on RGBY. If a new generation of developers were to take over the series would they show as much favoritism towards Kanto as the original team did?
    Leonhart likes this.
  6. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    It's not the development team as a whole that makes the decisions, but three people: Satoshi Tajiri, Junichi Masuda, and Ken Sugimori. These are the three members of Game Freak's Board of Directors, with Masuda being the head of development. They ultimately decide what does and does not go into a [main series] Pokémon game, with Masuda initiating creative direction of a game, Sugimori enforcing the game's imagery, and Tajiri - naturally - giving them both his blessing.

    In order for Pokémon take the a different turn, particularly out of the favoritism you speak of, these three would have to be replaced. Most importantly, Masuda would have to be replaced. Even though Tajiri founded both Game Freak and Pokémon, and sits as chairman of the Board of Directors, it is Masuda who has been entrusted with the direction of the Pokémon series. It is he who considers the child player perspective most of the time, and it is he who decided to make a remake of Yellow.

    The development team is not your problem in this regard. It's Junichi Masuda.
  7. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    I'm still wondering if anyone has considered that the fine people at Game Freak have done extensive marketing research into whether or not creating a video game to pull in the Pokémon GO crowd would actually be worth it.

    I mean, I'm pretty sure they have.

    Just consider the announcement of Let's GO itself. Immediately after the reveal, Nintendo released a statement confirming the 'core series RPG' would be released in 2019. They knew some fans would not be pleased by Let's GO. They did the research, predicted backlash, and proceeded accordingly. Clearly, their findings showed that such backlash would not be strong enough to suppress sales of Let's GO.

    I will certainly not tell anyone that they have to like this game; we are all entitled to our opinions. However, we are not entitled to make preconceived notions about the attentiveness of a gaming company simply because what is being presented is not what we want. Pokémon did not survive for 20+ years and become the biggest selling media franchise of all time by making random decisions on a whim. Time and thought are put into each decision made.
    Ducolamia likes this.
  8. PirateKing

    PirateKing Well-Known Member

    I'm right there with you.
    I grew up with Kanto so it was always one of my favorite regions, but lately, I've come around to viewing FireRed and LeafGreen as my favorite games ever (tied with the Hoenn games), and what I've been wanting for the longest time was to return to Kanto and see it remade with the 3D graphics and modern mechanics from XY-onwards.
    I'm excited to see Pallet Town, Vermillion City, Cinnabar Island, etc. again as the way I imagined them looking at from a Gameboy Advanced screen.

    To me, Lets Go is doing it right. They're remaking the region in a beautiful looking artstyle, overworld Pokemon breathes a new life to the world, they're taking risks by changing up long standing mechanics to something fresh, and thats whats gonna set this game apart and give people reasons to go keep going back to it after 8th Gen comes out, while at the same time building a solid foundation for 8th gen to build from and blow everyone away.

    I'm not a fan of how they replaced Red and Blue as player characters, and its seemingly gonna scale back the "I just wanna beat up my rival to put him in his place" gig, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since they're clearly doing something with those characters, we'll just have to wait and see exactly what.
    They need to keep the core "Become the very best like no one ever was" theme of the story, I hope theres a place letting us rematch the gym leaders, E4, Champion, Red, etc. to play that theme out, it felt missing in the original games, but was used to great effect in Stadiums Gym Leader Castle. Modern places like Mt. Battle, the PWT, Battle Tree, etc. did it great, even if its not going to the scale of those places in these games.

    One thing though, As huge a fan I am or the Original Season, the Orange Islands Arc holds just as much nostalgia to me as the Original Season does (Which is probably caus it was right after) and a huge part of the reason I like FRLG so much is the Sevii Islands. It was always amazing to have a whole new world to explore after beating the game, and it gave us so much more diversity and exploration (A Volcano, Ruins, Hot Springs, Large Ocean Routes, Meadows, Frozen Caves, Canyons. etc.) it felt like a true world crossing adventure, and we got some amazing music on top of it. This is why I REALLY hope LGPE includes something similar. It probably wont be the exact same since some areas like Tanoby ruins were specifically designed around Johto mons, but if we atleast get something similar, and it gives us some cool new areas, I'd be ok with that. Maybe they can give us the Orange Islands themselves this time around.

    But overall, I cant wait to see a new spin on the games I love so much. If what we've seen so far was just dropped onto my lap today, I would be ok with it, but we got a whole reveal cycle left and I couldnt be more excited to see what gets revealed next. If want this to be THE definitive Kanto experience. If they give us enough fun features that can compare to the experinces of the modern games, these have a shot of becoming, to me personally, the very best like no one ever was! (Until a game comes around that has BWs scale story, every single legendary, a Hoenn/Sinnoh/Unova size region, SMs style of likeable characters and the PWT all in one of course, but thats a story for another day)
    Leonhart likes this.
  9. Ducolamia

    Ducolamia SAYYYY WHAT???

    I agree. I can honestly say I'm not a fan of some of the changes for this game, but I do understand why they did it (money really). Kanto is the most marketable and from seeing the most recent trailer (the one with the pikachu shirts and the family) I understand what they are trying to do. They are trying to make this more of a family-friendly thing. Now how they do that is pretty questionable in itself, but I do understand the intent.

    That being said, they had to have known that if this was their Switch game people would've been upset, but knowing there is a game coming out next year NOT affected by this one, ( It was stated that LGPE wouldn't affect the 2019 game. I don't know why people are spreading this notion that it will suddenly affect THAT game) I'm not too upset about it.

    That being said I do have some gripes with it. For example, I don't know about the Go integration being the best idea. I do agree that someone who plays a mobile game in their spare time isn't going to necessarily drop a few hundred dollars on a new console and game. Though I am surprised they didn't do this sooner. And with wild encounters, I 'm not bothered by it because let's face it, you don't go into wild encounters unless you're looking for a shiny or grinding. (I'm surprised that with the running jokes of Zubat and Wingull being annoying people are so quick to want them back lol) Though, I am curious about how they are going to integrate the pokeball throwing features. For example how many pokeballs will we need for a wild battle. Maybe trainers can drop pokeballs for us to use? I dunno. I think they're just simplying a system that really doesn't need it. They need to refine it.
    PrinceOfFacade likes this.
  10. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    These games do seem to be more geared towards fans who are Pokemon Go players and/or eager for more Kanto nostalgia, so I can see why these games are being labeled by some fans as meant for casual players.
    Ducolamia likes this.
  11. shoz999

    shoz999 Sonic's the name! Speed's my game!

    Apologies if any of you are annoyed that I closed the poll. I cannot see the poll fit into a thread of an entirely different subject, one that focuses on the flawed vision that GameFreak believes to be casual as opposed to an entirely different subject, the cinematic and visual advancements of the Pokemon Let's Go titles that makes Kanto feel more like it's own character. You are welcome to try to convince me to open the poll or ask the admins to force open it, I think they can do that. I honestly do feel the poll is really pointless and even to an extant, misunderstood, in an entirely different subject.
  12. SBaby

    SBaby Dungeon Master

    The fact that the games have the worst engagement of any game in the series since this site started? The fact that the most common reason people aren't interested is because they don't want the Pokemon Go capture mechanics shoved down their throats? The fact that to quote, 'site hits are sitting around where they were in 2015 when nothing was happening' in terms of Pokémon related news? This is coming from Joe, not me. And if anyone would know numbers, it would be the guy who runs this site.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    Bolt the Cat likes this.
  13. BCVM22

    BCVM22 Well-Known Member

    Sure. Those are all definitely numbers that sit there in numeric fashion. Definitely numeric number-like figures.

    In and of themselves, they have zero predictive value to how well these games will do, and for as long as you're going to cite Joe as the definitive source on that (not wrongly, mind you), I wager he'd tell you something similar.

    And who are "most common people," in this context? People who weren't going to buy anything Pokémon in the first place? That seems like a solid demographic to worry about...
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  14. shoz999

    shoz999 Sonic's the name! Speed's my game!

    Actually I thought of a really easy, and even somewhat re-innovating, solution to that, that I feel like it deserves it's own thread. The VS. Seeker, where you can grind to your hearts desire against PKMN trainers! Also it just makes a lot of sense lore-wise to train against other trainers rather than wild Pokemon on a daily basis.
    Ducolamia likes this.
  15. Sαpphire

    Sαpphire Well-Known Member

    Okay but are these preorder numbers? Because realistically, that's the only number that matters yet - and even that number isn't predictive of final sales.
  16. SBaby

    SBaby Dungeon Master

    Joe was talking more about the site's numbers. But he did mention that even social media seems to not be generating much interest when news drops. That's a problem no matter how you look at it.

    ProtoMario made a video about this that goes into more detail on youtube. Now I do still maintain that the Pokémon Go mechanics are the primary reason and that it has nothing to do with it being accessible to newcomers (every Pokémon game is accessible to newcomers). But this does give some extra insight into it.
  17. shoz999

    shoz999 Sonic's the name! Speed's my game!

    I have an idea what's happening. It's probably that GameFreak has a Fortnite problem, where their actually competing against themselves. Basically Pokemon GO is literally eating much of Let's Go share of marketing. Type in Pokemon in Google news and you will literally get nothing but news on the latest minor updates of Pokemon Go over almost everything else that is Pokemon. Also the changes in Let's Go that the traditional fanbase aren't used to doesn't really help. It'll still sell well, I'd be surprised at all if any Pokemon game, be it main series or spinoff, does poorly.
    Sulfurian likes this.

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