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The idea that Iris is above Alain due to their showings is nonsensical.

Johtoo

Johtoo

Well-Known Member
As it implies she would have done better against Leon

But let's analyze what happened during Alain vs Leon

Leon sent Charizard as his 2ND POKEMON and did not switch it out until the battle was over

For Iris to do better than Alain she would need to beat the ace pokemon of the undefeatable trainer Leon

That's not happening

In fact call me crazy but I believe the Alain battle says next to NOTHING about how he compares to any other competitor except Ash because NONE OF THEM would be able to beat Leon's Charizard.

We already know Alain can hang in there with Diantha and Steven (due to scaling for the 1st and feats foe the latter)

Had Leon sent another Pokemon as his 2nd one then Alain probably would have taken him to his last pokemon which would have been Charizard and his performance wouldn't have been looked down upon so much
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
I like Alain and he's one of my favorite rivals but Iris is my favorite companion and because of Journeys by proxy my favorite Champion, so with that being said, I'm not above saying that could reflect my thinking in this specific instance.

I personally think she's stronger than him because if we're to assume that Cynthia is not that off from Leon (don't forget she's moved up spots since being the PWC herself) then I could buy Mega Garchomp being on base Charizard's level and by that decision only, she did better than Alain did.

Another variable is how serious was Leon and Cynthia actually taking their respective battles. Cynthia kept repeating she wasn't going easy and even revealed a keystone that nobody it seems has ever seen. Leon GMAXED so Rillaboom could play the drums. That episode was just overall iffy

That being said, you are correct that what happened to Alain would of been any of those Champions fate in terms of Leon easily stomping them vs them fighting another opponent. Cynthia or Diantha wouldn't of been in the semi finals if they fought Leon.

Which is why he shouldn't of even been in the tournament regardless but that's another conversion. Also it's like power scaling so this is prone to...errors. Alain is still technically and canonically stronger than other rival and made it in a tournament amongst Champions
 
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Pkjoan

Pokemon Master
Sham said:
I like Alain and he's one of my favorite rivals but Iris is my favorite companion and because of Journeys by proxy my favorite Champion, so with that being said, I'm not above saying that could reflect my thinking in this specific instance.

I personally think she's stronger than him because if we're to assume that Cynthia is not that off from Leon (don't forget she's moved up spots since being the PWC herself) then I could buy Mega Garchomp being on base Charizard's level and by that decision only, she did better than Alain did.

Another variable is how serious was Leon and Cynthia actually taking their respective battles. Cynthia kept repeating she wasn't going easy and even revealed a Keystone that nobody it seems has every seen. Leon GMAXED so Rillaboom could play the drums. That episode was just overall iffy

That being said, you are correct that what happened to Alain would of been any of those Champions fate in terms of Leon easily stomping them vs them fighting another opponent. Cynthia or Diantha wouldn't of been in the semi finals if they fought Leon.

Which is why he shouldn't of even been in the tournament regardless but that's another conversion. Also it's like power scaling so this is prone to...errors. Alain is still technically and canonically stronger than other rival and made it in a tournament amongst Champions.
Click to expand...

Nah, she's definitely not stronger than him.
 
P

Pkjoan

Pokemon Master
Sham said:
Cynthia/Leon or Iris/Alain?
Click to expand...
Iris.

My man defeated 10 Mega Evolutions in a row. Battled Ash's Greninja to almost a stalemate and was one of the most powerful trainers in Kalos. Iris is not at that level yet, her battle with Cynthia shows that. Alain had the back luck of battling Leon with his plot armor.
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
Pkjoan said:
Iris.

My man defeated 10 Mega Evolutions in a row. Battled Ash's Greninja to almost a stalemate and was one of the most powerful trainers in Kalos. Iris is not at that level yet, her battle with Cynthia shows that. Alain had the back luck of battling Leon with his plot armor.
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Tbh way different energy here and judging by who lasted longer even with just MCX vs base Charizard and Haxorus vs Mega Garchomp/Garchomp I'd say she'd do better than him against Leon's base Charizard only.


This episode basically confirmed Iris defeated Alder who is a regional Champion
 
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Pkjoan

Pokemon Master
Sham said:
FVkMHW2XsAsyg9G



FXvU1T-UYAc-qPx



Tbh way different energy here and judging by who lasted longer even with just MCX vs base Charizard and Haxorus vs Mega Garchomp/Garchomp I'd say she'd do better than him against Leon's base Charizard only.
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Nah, I don't think so.
 
Aryash Bajaj

Aryash Bajaj

Say I'm fat again!
TheWanderingMist said:
But they're literally both Champions? Literally all 8 of them are Champions in the anime. Iris may or may not be stronger. The entire point of the Masters 8 is that they're all supposed to be on mostly equal footing, except for Leon who has the advantage of being the Gen VIII Champion so he gets to be ridiculously undefeatable.
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Alain is a league winner. He is not a regional champion currently. He may beat Diantha in the future but for now he is clearly below the other 7.
 
GLTSRY

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Aryash Bajaj said:
Alain is a league winner. He is not a regional champion currently. He may beat Diantha in the future but for now he is clearly below the other 7.
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How is he clearly below the other 7? There is literally nothing that hints towards this. When looking at his feats, his ranking and the general depiction of the M8 trainers, the opposite is the case.
 
MetaMantis

MetaMantis

Offline until Ash vs Leon
Xeogran said:
Diantha above Steven? I doubt so. Steven, just like Alain, got screwed in the brackets by battling someone who has to proceed further with no questions asked.
As a trainer I think he's stronger, especially due to his type advantage.
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How about:
1. Ash
2. Leon
3. Cynthia
4/5: Diantha/Steven
6. Lance
7. Iris
8. Alain
 
Akkipeddi

Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
One more thing as well, it almost seemed like they went out of their way to nerf Alain by giving him two new Pokémon. His Bisharp and Metagross were pretty damn strong in XY. Iris has used the same Pokémon throughout since BW, just with Axew evolving all the way. Crap battle + forced nerf + unbeatable champion hype just makes it so much harder to rate M8 Alain which is why I still go off his XY feats, and to me those still beat what Iris showed against Cynthia.
 
GLTSRY

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Akkipeddi said:
One more thing as well, it almost seemed like they went out of their way to nerf Alain by giving him two new Pokémon. His Bisharp and Metagross were pretty damn strong in XY. Iris has used the same Pokémon throughout since BW, just with Axew evolving all the way. Crap battle + forced nerf + unbeatable champion hype just makes it so much harder to rate M8 Alain which is why I still go off his XY feats, and to me those still beat what Iris showed against Cynthia.
Click to expand...

Don’t forget the worst nerf of them all: No BLAAAASTO BUUUURN
 
Aryash Bajaj

Aryash Bajaj

Say I'm fat again!
GLTSRY said:
How is he clearly below the other 7? There is literally nothing that hints towards this. When looking at his feats, his ranking and the general depiction of the M8 trainers, the opposite is the case.
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We do not know the feats of other champions because they do not appear much in the anime. The only guaranteed thing is that all of them have,at minimum beaten the Elite 4 of their regions and will defeat them if they were challenged by the E4 right now. Alains biggest feat is also beating an E4 member but his battle against Leon puts him below the other champions as it is not implied anywhere that the champions would fare worse than him.

He's still the top 8 trainers in the world. He just isn't in the top 7.
 
Johtoo

Johtoo

Well-Known Member
MetaMantis said:
Prediction of ranking at the end:

1. Ash
2. Leon
3. Cynthia
4. Diantha
5. Steven
6. Lance
7. Iris
8. Alain
Click to expand...
Why would there be a ranking at the end?
There'll be a winner, a runner up and those who made top 4 or top 8
But a new season will begin right afterwards so these trainers don't need to be locked in specific places.
 
KirliaToon50

KirliaToon50

Snivy.
TheWanderingMist said:
This thread is hilariously hypocritical since it wouldn't even exist if Iris had faced Leon in the first round instead and there wouldn't be people asking if Alain was stronger than her after he lost to Cynthia.
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Yeah. it only belittles both Iris and Alain at this point, If it wasn't for Ash being the unbeatable; Ash Ketchum would've lost in the World Coronation Series while only ranks in third place and Cynthia would be crowned a Monarch title.

But now: Ash is being unbeatable until he loses to Leon thus ending his winning streak like how Bea ends his winning streak but I wish Bea should've stayed in World Coronation Series at this point.
 
MetaMantis

MetaMantis

Offline until Ash vs Leon
Johtoo said:
Why would there be a ranking at the end?
There'll be a winner, a runner up and those who made top 4 or top 8
But a new season will begin right afterwards so these trainers don't need to be locked in specific places.
Click to expand...
Everyone from 9+ has a ranking, therefore 1-8 are ranked too.
 
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