The idea that Iris is above Alain due to their showings is nonsensical.

[sutellakiara]

Actually using Z-move Kommo-o vs Haxorus makes more sense. And keep Mega Garchomp for Lucario.

Well, I was trying to expand upon and mantain the idea of "Cynthia not using the obvious Mega because strategy or whatever" the anime was obviously trying to hammer down our heads. Wouldn't be that crazy to think she'd use all gimmicks to spice things up depending on things.
They went out of their way to give Cynthia a Kommo-o so the Z-Move was already there for free. And it's not that hard to imagine Cynthia going to Alola because of history nerdery since the place is all about muh culture and stuff. And I mean, she was even there on the games.
Plus that someone else besides Ash has the potential to use all three gimmicks would have big shock moment.

 

[Lord Godwin]

Well, I was trying to expand upon and mantain the idea of "Cynthia not using the obvious Mega because strategy or whatever" the anime was obviously trying to hammer down our heads. Wouldn't be that crazy to think she'd use all gimmicks to spice things up depending on things.
They went out of their way to give Cynthia a Kommo-o so the Z-Move was already there for free. And it's not that hard to imagine Cynthia going to Alola because of history nerdery since the place is all about muh culture and stuff. And I mean, she was even there on the games.
Plus that someone else besides Ash has the potential to use all three gimmicks would have big shock moment.

There are still people who hope both Loen and Ash use all 3 Gimmicks.

 

[AJ97]

Yes, and then it fainted while Haxorus was fine and continued to match Mega-chomp until it got overpowered in the end. This doesn't help your point at all

Haxorus didn't do **** against Base Garchomp. It's Outrage got blocked by Mega Garchomp without Cynthia even using an actual attack. Cynthia only Mega-Evolved out of respect for Iris for her growth. It was not in a situation where she felt cornered or did because she had to.

90% of your posts are assumptions.

How vapid are you? Do you actually read what you type? Make 100 assumptions and then classify someone's actual facts as assumptions.

Yes, Haxorus trading blows with the strongest form of Cynthia's Garchomp is nothing. No one cares what you think, simp

Outside of Garchomp getting pushed back; there is not a single moment in the fight where we see Garchomp in pain. Not even once. Haxorus did Jack **** against Garchomp. If she couldn't tank a single attack from Cynthia's Mega Garchomp; then Iris wouldn't have been in the Master Class.

Huh? Tell me you didn't watch the battle without telling me you didn't watch the battle lmao

You're the one deluded yourself with your excessive Iris simping

It doesn't change that much at all. If anything, it shows that Leon has a secondary ace like most people, and Diantha should've stopped the bleeding earlier by sending out Gardevoir. You're in too deep so not gonna keep going back and forth. Enjoy fairytale land

You LITERALLY contradicted every single thing you said by this statement.
If you're gonna call Rilaboom a Secondary Ace. THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS..
Alain's base pokemon outperformed and did better against a G-MAXED VERSION OF LEON'S "SECONDARY ACE" (These are your own words).

This alone would raise Alain's level considering how Rilaboom in its base form destroyed 4 of Diantha's pokemon.

 

[charchar56]

Haxorus didn't do **** against Base Garchomp. It's Outrage got blocked by Mega Garchomp without Cynthia even using an actual attack. Cynthia only Mega-Evolved out of respect for Iris for her growth. It was not in a situation where she felt cornered or did because she had to.

How vapid are you? Do you actually read what you type? Make 100 assumptions and then classify someone's actual facts as assumptions.

Outside of Garchomp getting pushed back; there is not a single moment in the fight where we see Garchomp in pain. Not even once. Haxorus did Jack **** against Garchomp. If she couldn't tank a single attack from Cynthia's Mega Garchomp; then Iris wouldn't have been in the Master Class.

You're the one deluded yourself with your excessive Iris simping

You LITERALLY contradicted every single thing you said by this statement.
If you're gonna call Rilaboom a Secondary Ace. THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS..
Alain's base pokemon outperformed and did better against a G-MAXED VERSION OF LEON'S "SECONDARY ACE" (These are your own words).

This alone would raise Alain's level considering how Rilaboom in its base form destroyed 4 of Diantha's pokemon.

dude, go be a clown somewhere else, or maybe touch some grass so you can calm down. Your alternative "facts" are ridiculous and not worth responding too

Leon was toying with Alain who had to send out his own ace to bring down RIllaboom (which was the right call, and Diantha should've done the same before losing most of her team). It's not all that impressive at that Charizard took out Rillaboom, because that was expected. Iris' ace had a much better performance with out a gimmick than Alain's MEd ace did. Alain is the only M8 trainer who's ace (in its strongest form) got clapped by the base form of their opponent's ace. Cope

 

[AJ97]

dude, go be a clown somewhere else, or maybe touch some grass so you can calm down. Your alternative "facts" are ridiculous and not worth responding too

Leon was toying with Alain who had to send out his own ace to bring down RIllaboom (which was the right call, and Diantha should've done the same before losing most of her team). It's not all that impressive at that Charizard took out Rillaboom, because that was expected. Iris' ace had a much better performance with out a gimmick than Alain's MEd ace did. Alain is the only M8 trainer who's ace (in its strongest form) got clapped by the base form of their opponent's ace. Cope

Nice, you're throwing out a lot of interesting assumptions here.
1) How do you know Gardevoir would have had no trouble dealing with Rilaboom? Are you saying Gardevoir would effortlessly destroy 4 of Diantha's Pokemon?

2) Iris not having a Gimmick speaks to her inexperience and her being a weaker trainer. Add to that, there is no indication that Iris did any better than Alain did against Leon. Add to that; it is irrelevant because there is enough reason to assume Leon is significantly superior to Cynthia.
Cynthia lost to Ash despite her giving Ash a severe handicap by taking Pikachu out with the Destiny Bond (Something she can't ever do again if they battle). Leon is definitely going to be >> Cynthia.

At this point, you just sound like one of Sham's dupe accounts to go around praising Iris and trying to make everyone else look bad to make the former seem better.

While initially one could've argued while Iris was the worst in the Master Class; was probably not that far off from Alain; that no longer is the case anymore. Diantha's performance against Leon further re-inforces the fact that Iris is arguably the worst in the Master Class by quite a margin.

 

[masdog]

Iris not having a Gimmick speaks to her inexperience and her being a weaker trainer.

It does not. All it says is that Iris is not as widely traveled as some of the other trainers.

 

[WaterShuriken]

It does not. All it says is that Iris is not as widely traveled as some of the other trainers.

Even then, what if she chooses to get strong without relying on those?

Is Pierce a weaker gym leader than Milo because he prefers to battle without Dynamaxing?

Iris is stronger than Alain imo. People criticize Iris for using Horn Drill against Cynthia but like to mention Alain's Bisharp but didn't it KO Hawlucha and Goodra with Guillotine?

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

Nice, you're throwing out a lot of interesting assumptions here.
1) How do you know Gardevoir would have had no trouble dealing with Rilaboom? Are you saying Gardevoir would effortlessly destroy 4 of Diantha's Pokemon?

It the ace Pokémon so it would definitely have won against Rillaboom which it did.

2) Iris not having a Gimmick speaks to her inexperience and her being a weaker trainer. Add to that, there is no indication that Iris did any better than Alain did against Leon. Add to that; it is irrelevant because there is enough reason to assume Leon is significantly superior to Cynthia.

Wow. So you basically say that any trainers without a gimmick is basically inexperienced and a weak trainer. Not sure what gimmick have to do with being a strong trainer. And why are we taking about Iris fighting Leon? The end results would probably be the same. Iris’s Haxorus take one win but Leon just need 2 mons to win.

Cynthia lost to Ash despite her giving Ash a severe handicap by taking Pikachu out with the Destiny Bond (Something she can't ever do again if they battle). Leon is definitely going to be >> Cynthia.

At this point, you just sound like one of Sham's dupe accounts to go around praising Iris and trying to make everyone else look bad to make the former seem better.

While initially one could've argued while Iris was the worst in the Master Class; was probably not that far off from Alain; that no longer is the case anymore. Diantha's performance against Leon further re-inforces the fact that Iris is arguably the worst in the Master Class by quite a margin.

Not really. I’ll say this once a 3-6 loss is equivalent to a 1-3 loss so there no real difference in Leon v Diantha or Leon v Alain. And May I remind you that Alain and Iris rank are right next to each other. Both Alain and Iris should be evenly matched and a battle between them can go either way. There is no margin

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

more about this Iris and Alain debate.

Let see how each trainers viewed the other in their respective matches!

Iris: watching Alain’s battle became impressed by his plan for Chestnaught to ride Max Airstream and scores a hit. Felt kinda sad and nervous when she realize Leon basically outplayed Alain with Rillaboom Acrobatics

Alain: who literally research and study Mega Ecolution and likely know Cynthia strength l, say that he couldn’t tell how the battle between Haxorus and Mega Garchomp would play out because he notice that Haxorus have a lot of potential.


Basically both Alain and Iris respected each others’ strength and all of you need to stop this debate & accept their equal in power and skills.

 

[AJ97]

It the ace Pokémon so it would definitely have won against Rillaboom which it did.

1) Gyarados is Lance's ace Pokemon and it lost against Diantha's Gourgeist.

2) Gardevoir fought a Rilaboom that had already fought and defeated 4 Pokemon from her team before. On top of that, Rilaboom even knocked away Gardevoir's first attack.

Wow. So you basically say that any trainers without a gimmick is basically inexperienced and a weak trainer. Not sure what gimmick have to do with being a strong trainer. And why are we taking about Iris fighting Leon? The end results would probably be the same. Iris’s Haxorus take one win but Leon just need 2 mons to win.

1) Gimmicks are tools available that allow a trainer to be effectively strong in battle. The Pokemon Wolrd Championship are battles among the strongest trainers in the world (Who would essentially be optimizing everything they can to yield the best result. Add to that, Iris had no idea what a Z-Move even was (And This was something even Hop new). Being ignorant and not taking advantage of available battle mechanics make you weak,

Not really. I’ll say this once a 3-6 loss is equivalent to a 1-3 loss so there no real difference in Leon v Diantha or Leon v Alain. And May I remind you that Alain and Iris rank are right next to each other. Both Alain and Iris should be evenly matched and a battle between them can go either way. There is no margin

1) This is biased and a ridiculous opinion. It would be the case if Leon had another special Pokemon up his sleeve that swept through most of Diantha's team; however it was the same Rilaboom that fought against Leon.

Let me try to dumb it down for you as best as I can..

Base Rilaboom destroyed 4 of Diantha's Pokemon and was also able to tank an attack from Diantha's ace.
G-Max Rilaboom was countered by Alain's Chesnaught and it was basically one shot by Alain's Charizard right after.

This heavily implies Alain is more closer to Diantha than he is to Iris.

 

[AJ97]

more about this Iris and Alain debate.

Let see how each trainers viewed the other in their respective matches!

Iris: watching Alain’s battle became impressed by his plan for Chestnaught to ride Max Airstream and scores a hit. Felt kinda sad and nervous when she realize Leon basically outplayed Alain with Rillaboom Acrobatics

Alain: who literally research and study Mega Ecolution and likely know Cynthia strength l, say that he couldn’t tell how the battle between Haxorus and Mega Garchomp would play out because he notice that Haxorus have a lot of potential.


Basically both Alain and Iris respected each others’ strength and all of you need to stop this debate & accept their equal in power and skills.

This is just nonsense. All the Master Class trainers are civil and professional (Again outside of Iris who burst into tears over a loss).
Cynthia also acknowledged and seemed to praise Iris but in the next match we realise that she's felt uninspired and was closed to retiring from professional battling and it was only after her fight against Ash that she felt invigorated and ready to get back into Pokemon battling.

Using some silly dialogue/comments and making such heavy assumptions is ridiculous.

Even then, what if she chooses to get strong without relying on those?

Is Pierce a weaker gym leader than Milo because he prefers to battle without Dynamaxing?

Iris is stronger than Alain imo. People criticize Iris for using Horn Drill against Cynthia but like to mention Alain's Bisharp but didn't it KO Hawlucha and Goodra with Guillotine?

This is such a dumb argument. Did we see Iris explicitly mention this? Stop making silly assumptions to try to prove your point.
Iris is not stronger than Alain.

The writers explicitly put a Non Regional Champion above Iris in the ranking. Why would they do that? Now before you use Ash as an argument; that would make no sense as Ash is always put in the underdog position regardless of whatever. On top of that, the Diantha vs Leon battle further proved Alain is closer to Diantha than to Iris making the gap even bigger.

Using Pierce and Milo example is nonsense. This is like taking a Professional athlete; give them a handicap and have them compete against a Third String player. In this context yes. It would be like comparing Current Ash without gimmicks against Misty (Naturally; considering Ash's level relative to Misty; it is an entirely different story).

However, this is the PWC with the best 8 trainers in the world. This argument is no longer applicable here.

 

[masdog]

Again outside of Iris who burst into tears over a loss

This is such a bad take. Iris briefly cried during a private moment with Ash and Go. I’m not sure how this is unprofessional when real life professional athletes have emotional moments after a win or loss.

Also, Iris stayed to cheer on Ash. Lance just dipped out after his loss to Iris Diantha (sorry…got this wrong due to lack of caffeine).

The writers explicitly put a Non Regional Champion above Iris in the ranking. Why would they do that?

Because you couldn’t realistically put Iris higher. She had lost to Ash in the Great Class. So it would be hard to rank her higher in the Master Class because she would not only have to leap past Ash in the rankings but also basically skip the Ultra Class.

Someone’s rank in the Master Class isn’t just about their strength. It’s also a function of how long they’ve been in the Masters Class. Someone who has been in the M8 for a long time is going to be ranked higher. Ash and Iris being at the bottom of the M8 doesn’t mean they’re not strong or as good of trainers - they just haven’t been there long enough to have that many matches to rise higher in the M8.

 

[sutellakiara]

There's absolutely zero reasons for Iris to get a Dynamax Band, at minimum, in-story. I remember lots of people were expecting and hoping she'd G-Max Lapras.
Trying to pretend she actually has a reason to decide to not use any gimmicks is silly and nothing but headcanon and, I'd even dare say it, pure cope. Nothing of that sort was ever implied and much less mentioned.

The only real reason there is for her not having any gimmick is a meta one in which they plain and simply wanted Iris' "thing" to be her Heart of Dragon things and her having any other gimmick would diminish the importance of that by making it share the spotlight with it and stuff.

Iris is stronger than Alain imo. People criticize Iris for using Horn Drill against Cynthia but like to mention Alain's Bisharp but didn't it KO Hawlucha and Goodra with Guillotine?

Are you Iris stans still gonna continue being disingenuous and keep pretending that throwing Horn Drill as a desperate last measure and landing it on a borderline full health Pokemon is still the same as using Thunder Wave on a Pokemon coming damaged from a previous battle and waiting for the paralysis to take effect to throw the Guillotine and using Guillotine as the finisher after Goodra took like a gorillion Iron Heads and Focus Blasts beforehand, became very exhausted after using Bide to the point of kneeling and was barely use Dragon Pulse from how weakened it had become so Bisharp was able to cut through the Dragon Pulse and then land on borderline fainting Goodra?

 

[Rukiro]

Are you Iris stans still gonna continue being disingenuous and keep pretending that throwing Horn Drill as a desperate last measure and landing it on a borderline full health Pokemon is still the same as using Thunder Wave on a Pokemon coming damaged from a previous battle and waiting for the paralysis to take effect to throw the Guillotine and using Guillotine as the finisher after Goodra took like a gorillion Iron Heads and Focus Blasts beforehand, became very exhausted after using Bide to the point of kneeling and was barely use Dragon Pulse from how weakened it had become so Bisharp was able to cut through the Dragon Pulse and then land on borderline fainting Goodra?

Yes.

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

There's absolutely zero reasons for Iris to get a Dynamax Band, at minimum, in-story. I remember lots of people were expecting and hoping she'd G-Max Lapras.
Trying to pretend she actually has a reason to decide to not use any gimmicks is silly and nothing but headcanon and, I'd even dare say it, pure cope. Nothing of that sort was ever implied and much less mentioned.

The only real reason there is for her not having any gimmick is a meta one in which they plain and simply wanted Iris' "thing" to be her Heart of Dragon things and her having any other gimmick would diminish the importance of that by making it share the spotlight with it and stuff.


Are you Iris stans still gonna continue being disingenuous and keep pretending that throwing Horn Drill as a desperate last measure and landing it on a borderline full health Pokemon is still the same as using Thunder Wave on a Pokemon coming damaged from a previous battle and waiting for the paralysis to take effect to throw the Guillotine and using Guillotine as the finisher after Goodra took like a gorillion Iron Heads and Focus Blasts beforehand, became very exhausted after using Bide to the point of kneeling and was barely use Dragon Pulse from how weakened it had become so Bisharp was able to cut through the Dragon Pulse and then land on borderline fainting Goodra?

You’ll never convince Iris Stan that Alain better.

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

What really bothers me is that people somehow think Alain is stronger than Diantha based on their performance against Rillaboom.

 

[Sham]

Just a though:

Would people be more happy if Cynthia used Togekiss against Iris instead of Mega Garchomp and if there was no Cynthia Mega Garchomp in the anime?

She should have saved it for the finals with Lillie

In all seriousness she didn’t use Togekiss against Iris because executives had to get that last bit of Arceus promotion so obviously they were saving it for the main character. They mentioned somewhere that Ash’s battles were planned early so she always was going to use Togekiss on him. Her first semi final match was suppose to be a still shot

Them having her Mega Evolve Garchomp was a later decision since Ash’s battle was written first. She was most likely always going to Dynamax Togekiss (ala Volo)