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The Ideal Master Eight tournament

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
This is a slight nitpick but I wish they would have changed the fields like they did during XY/BW. Having the same exact thing got pretty boring ngl

i may be in the minority here, but them not having special fields involved in this means the pokemon can't use them to tip the scales of battle, and are forced to rely upon their own power.

After all, i know there have been times where using the terrain had too much of an effect on a battle. Like Ash vs Hapu.

As for any changes to the M8?

I would've had someone else instead of Alain, if he and Ash are meant to fight again it shouldn't be in a tournament setting because all people care for is Greninja vs Charizard, and an M8 battle should not focus on just 2 pokemon.

I would also have Leon show case his other pokemon more leading into it besides his Charizard since the way he's been portrayed is basically Alain 2.0


No longer trembling not a moment more
i may be in the minority here, but them not having special fields involved in this means the pokemon can't use them to tip the scales of battle, and are forced to rely upon their own power.

After all, i know there have been times where using the terrain had too much of an effect on a battle. Like Ash vs Hapu.

As for any changes to the M8?

I would've had someone else instead of Alain, if he and Ash are meant to fight again it shouldn't be in a tournament setting because all people care for is Greninja vs Charizard, and an M8 battle should not focus on just 2 pokemon.

I would also have Leon show case his other pokemon more leading into it besides his Charizard since the way he's been portrayed is basically Alain 2.0
It just utilized the battle field a bit more. Things like Charizard splashing water to avoid Trevor’s Flamethrower comes to mind. It allows new moves and combinations to be formed. It also doesn’t help that despite the field stay stagnant it’s just boring in general.

Agreed with everything else though


Well-Known Member
I'm pretty happy with the Masters 8 roster as is. These are the things I'd wish for most if I had my way.

1) Ash's reserves splitting time with his JN team. They've clearly been training in their time away from him, and I'm sure they'd be eager to fight for him in the biggest tournament he's ever participated in and prove their newfound strength. In addition, these are champion level trainers who have been with their pokemon a long time, while Ash's team except Pikachu is still green in terms of how long they've been with him. It would only make sense to have some of his reserves join the fight. Of course, I wish they participated in the earlier matches on the way to the Masters 8 too, but oh well.

2) 6v6 the whole way through. This is related to the first. His JN team would still have plenty of time to shine, while still allowing (some of) Ash's reserves to directly contribute.

3) More dynamic battles. More opportunity for these trainers to show why they're in this tournament, as well as just more visually appealing battles. More dodging, more maneuvering, etc.

4) More interaction between the participants. We need to have met them beforehand for best effect, preferably along the way up the ranks, but at least before the Masters 8 began properly. Also, the losers from the first round not leaving and sticking around, so we get more interactions.

5) My biggest wish: double elimination. This is the scenario I would most want for this (*activating fanfiction mode*):

- Ash beats Steven to advance to the semi-finals against Cynthia.
- Cynthia beats Ash, her Mega Garchomp dismantling his planned strategy and mopping up his last 2-3 pokemon, the last one being Mega Lucario.
- Ash drops to the loser's bracket, and experiences a brief meltdown as he reflects on how handily Cynthia destroyed him once she had adapted to his strategy, and it hits him how intense the level of competition is at this tournament. He's been so focused on getting to battle Leon that he's forgotten that every other participant here is also among the strongest in the world, and he needs to slow down and climb the obstacles one by one. He gets his head back on straight and prepares for his next match with renewed focus.
- Ash's next match would be either against Steven, Iris, Lance, or Alain. Of the 4, I would prefer Alain, as he never got his chance to beat him. Would really like for Greninja to be the last pokemon here, for the revenge match against Alain's Charizard. Ash finally defeats him. Alain gracefully accepts defeat and tells Ash to keep his momentum.
- Ash's next match would be either Diantha (dropped to the loser's bracket after a semi-final loss to Leon), or one of the other 3 (depending on how the brackets go). Of these, I'd prefer Diantha. Ash advances after another hard fought match (maybe Dynamax Gengar gets to shine here?).
- The loser's final match is one Ash has been yearning for: a revenge match against Cynthia, who lost to Leon in the winner's final. He defeats Cynthia after a tough match where both participants have given it their all. Both trainers find their strategies getting thwarted throughout the match as they rapidly adapt to each other, and the final round is an intense slugfest between Mega Lucario and Mega Garchomp. Ash wins and advances to the finals with Cynthia pleased with his growth and wishing him the best. Also, they go get some ice cream together after the match.
- Ash vs Leon. Ash needs to take 2 matches to win, Leon only needs to win once.
- Ash takes the first match because Leon underestimates not Ash's skill or his roster's strength, but Ash's ability to think on the fly and get himself out of a jam, along with his creativity in using moves (which would likely get people crying more anime BS/plot armor/etc but screw it, I'm just dreaming here).
- Leon admits he underestimated Ash, and vows not to make the same mistake, going all out for the first time in what feels like forever to him. He proves to be an opponent with as much creativity and ability to turn bad situations as Ash, with their battle becoming an intense match that goes down to the wire. Win or lose, Ash would have not only proven his mettle, he would also have been the only one to have made the unbeatable champion sweat enough to go all out.

(*fanfiction mode off*) I sincerely doubt they'd put double elimination in the series ever, seeing how that's even more episodes needed to choreograph and animate and stuff, but I do wish it'd be there. Double elimination can be a really hype format.
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Well-Known Member
After the way Alain was disrespected I'd rather just keep him out of the tournament altogether. Have him more focused on his research and maybe be the one to help Ash find his Lucarionite.

To replace him I'd pick Kukui so there's someone native from every region and he was the strongest trainer in Alola before Ash and he could be trying to put Alola on the map on a grander scale as people don't take the league seriously and it took way too long for Ash to actually be acknowledged as its champion properly.

Battled would be 6 vs 6 all the way through and the match ups would be:

Ash vs Steven
Iris vs Cynthia
Kukui vs Lance
Leon vs Diantha


Ash vs Cynthia
Kukui vs Leon


Ash vs Leon

Ultra Class should have been longer. 8 battles including Promotion match to reach the masters 8 and Ash's opponents would be Lorelei, Phoebe, Lucian, Grimley, Drasna, Gordie, Ilima and Raihan for promotion battle. Resevers would be used starting in Ultra Class.


Shirona, my beloved...
I liked these greentexts I saw once.

>Diantha beats Lance
>Cynthia beats Iris
>Ash beats Steven
>Leon loses against Diantha
>Ash loses against Cynthia
>Ash and Leon meet outside the stadium
>"Leon I lost"
>"Ash I lost"
>they look into each other's eyes for a moment and then burst out laughing
>"our journey is just beginning, there are still so many strong people out there, so many other pokemon to discover"
>Diantha vs Cynthia
>Ash vs Leon (unofficial match)
>outcome: unknown
>Diantha vs Cynthia finals full of sakuga
>Leon has an all-out battle against Ash in an empty stadium with no outcome shown
>final shot is just Leon and Ash in the ground panting and smiling about what a great battle it was
>SV preview

Sadly, too kino for it too happen in reality.


The gum you like is Go-ing to come back in style
The members of the M8: No changes

The matchups:
  • Round 1: Iris/Lance, Ash/Steven, Leon/Diantha, Alain/Cynthia
  • Round 2: Iris/Leon, Ash/Cynthia
  • Round 3: Leon/Ash
  • Winner: Ash
The continuity:
  • During Iris' battle with Lance, she talks about Cynthia and how Cynthia inspires her. When Ash and Cynthia battle, Iris is torn because she wants both of them to succeed/to face both of them.
  • At the same time, she basically knows that Leon will crush her mercilessly, making her feel like she doesn't deserve to be in the M8 or worry that she'll never catch up to the others.
  • Cilan is seen cheering for both of his friends.
The Pokémon that fight
  • Ash: same team against Steven, except Dracovish defeats Aggron before losing to Cradily, Pikachu defeats Cradily before losing to Metagross (but severely weakening it with its Z-Move), and Gengar wins.
  • Iris uses Haxorus, Dragonite and [Third Dragon Pokemon] against Lance, with the third Pokemon losing. Excadrill can be used against Leon.
  • Ash/Cynthia: Gengar starred in the last match, so he has his cred. But he's injured in the match and needs to sit the next one out, so Infernape subs in for this battle.
The format: Unchanged


My ideal Ash vs Cynthia (no reserves)
Sirfetch’d vs Milotic: Milotic wins
Pikachu vs Milotic: Pikachu wins
Pikachu vs Garchomp: Garchomp wins
Dragonite vs Roserade: Dragonite wins
Gengar vs Spiritomb: Draw
Dracovish vs Togekiss: Togekiss wins
Dracovish vs Kommo-o: Kommo-o wins
Dragonite vs Kommo-o: Dragonite wins
Dragonite vs Garchomp: Garchomp wins
Mega Lucario vs Mega Garchomp: Mega Lucario wins


Currently hidden in the mysterious Glimwood Tangle
Ash beats Rahian who was ranked 7th...

Leon 1
Cynthia 2
Lance 3
Diantha 4
Wallace 5
Iris 6
Ash 7
Tobias 8.


Round 1
Leon vs Tobias
Wallace vs Diantha
Ash vs Cynthia
Iris vs Lance

WALLACE vs DIANTHA : Honestly, I hate ORAS Steven, he's just a boring guy with a good design and sometimes arrogant. I prefer Wallace, he is much more charismatic, I imagine the guy giving his all to show that he is as valuable as the other champions, showing his skills as an actor and showman alongside actress Diantha in a epic Batlle - Perfomance , which would be similar to a Pokémon contest, as a tribute to the so exciting [pre retcon] contests who were with us for more than 8 years.

M-Swampert is used here, but the Final Match is M-Gardevoir vs Milotic. Diantha wins.

ASH VS CYNTHIA : A lot of callbacks, Paul seeing this, Ash using Infernape in a 3 vs 3, Cynthia WITHOUT Mega Evolution and the final battle is between BlazeApe vs Infernape. Cynthia uses Z-Move Kommo-O, but it gets a tie against Dragonite's Horizontal Draco Meteor. Gengar Gmax vs Spiritomb. Ash wins.

LEON VS TOBIAS : Basically Leon vs Alain but Tobias, the worf effect would be better

LANCE VS IRIS [NO GIMMICKS] : All the crap about cynthia being Iris's teacher that never happened but with Lance. Makes a lot more sense. Iris was in johto, knew her cousin , the whole teacher vs student thing would be so much better. Haxorus puts up a fairly even battle, but in the end Dragonite wins. Lance recognizes her and tells her that will soon be outdone by her followed by a hug as she cries.


ASH VS LANCE : Kanto vs Johto !!! 6 vs 6 , sounds Mezase pokemon Master at some point , Final Battle Z-Mov Pikachu vs Dinamax Gyarados, Charizard vs Dragonite & others.


ASH VS LEON : Sorry but this is too fanfic so we have to triggered the pokefandom with Lucario defeating G-Max Charizard.
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Well-Known Member
First of all, I'd fix... or better directly remove all the qualifier thing, as this is clearly a Champions Tournament and could have been better handled if treated that way from the start. Even a round-robin Champions Tournament would have been a better idea.
  • Format: Considering this anime doesn't seem to be specially aimed to battle hard enthusiasts, actually the 3 VS 3 (and even the occasional interruptions) work well. In fact, I'd rather preferred a 3 VS 3 or 4 VS 4 for the semifinals and leave the 6 VS 6 for the final match.
  • Members: Instead of Alain, I'd put the Paldean Champion or make Lorelei (for mere fetish) the Champion of Kanto.
  • Matchups: They're already fine... In fact, Leon, Lance, Diantha and the 8th Champion could fight in any order and doesn't matter because the final will always be Leon VS Satoshi, what a predictable plot...
  • It would have been better if Leon weren't portrayed as the "unbeatable", so any order (or even expanding the tournament to 32 participants and make them fight in a Soccer World Cup format) including Satoshi as finalist would be fine.
  • Continuity: It's one of those things that requires its proper time and the Champions sharing together. Nothing that some previous additional chapters and new connections between stories could not fix.
  • Pokémon: For Satoshi, some reserves wouldn't do harm. In fact, it would have been better for him to not capture new animals (or well, let's concede Dragonite and Lucario) and instead train with all his arsenal.
  • Probably I'd hire an experienced fanfic writer to develop all this stuff, as I don't care so much about the details. The main thing I expect viewing such a tournament is to feel excited and to identify myself with the battlers and their backstories, and that must be built from the day one.


Well-Known Member
Leon sits out until the final round, similar to the Kalos Queen master class. Also no other Champions are in this because most of them are boring imo.
Ash should have been using his Pokémon from the past series instead of using his current team.
No breaks or clip shows or fillers in the middle of the tournament.
Better paced and better animated battles.
Also Lillie wins and beats Leon as well.
I'd rather retire Alain and AJ and put Cynthia and Bianca.

The last battle of the finals would be Lillie's Shiron (Ninetales) VS Bianca's Emboar. The decisive moment is a clash between the Z-Moves Subzero Slammer and All-Out Pummeling. Only Shiron is still standing. Lillie wins, beats Leon, brings the cup to Alola and coaches Satoshi for the next year's PWC.



No longer trembling not a moment more
I'd rather retire Alain and AJ and put Cynthia and Bianca.

The last battle of the finals would be Lillie's Shiron (Ninetales) VS Bianca's Emboar. The decisive moment is a clash between the Z-Moves Subzero Slammer and All-Out Pummeling. Only Shiron is still standing. Lillie wins, beats Leon, brings the cup to Alola and coaches Satoshi for the next year's PWC.

You know which character I was thinking could have made sense? Caitlin. She been battling since she was in Sinnoh and had numerous of battles with Cynthia. She's also an Elite Four and Gothitelle did relatively well against Garchomp. Being an Elite Four while the Champion is there shouldn't be an issue since they let Flint in. Caitlin and Iris together in the Masters 8. She could be number 6

Obviously Lillie would dominate but still
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Well-Known Member
1. Paul instead of Iris
2.Match ups: Lance vs Alain: Lance wins, Cynthia vs Paul, Ash vs Steven,Leon vs Diantha. Top 4: Lance vs Ash, Cynthia vs Leon.Finale: Ash vs Leon
4. Ash uses reserves. Charizard , Infernape, Heracross( Ash uses Mega Charizard) vs Steven. Lucario, Pikachu, Sceptile,Incineroar, Melmetal, Glalie against Lance.( he uses Mega Lucario and 10MV Pikachu) and for Leon idk other reserves with all 3 gimmicks.
5. I don't mind format that they use now: 3 v 3 then 6 v 6 and finale is 6 vs 6


Active Member
I don't really have a problem with the tournament it was actually really fun for me (I was one of the few not triggered by Leon vs Alain and the no dodging in Lance vs Diantha) as I think the matches chosen ended up being fun and felt truly more randomized than if Ash went against Alain

The only real issues were the animation and choreography (the no dodging, not too many hits and stiff movements) so that would be the main “change”

And yeah minor stuff like Wallace watching when Steven says Hoenn trainers would be nice. And I’m sure they're saving the companions and co cameos for later but maybe showing Cilan for Iris’s Unova, Dawn for Cynthia’s Sinnoh and etc even if just the back of the head like with Jimmy and co would of been fun. And with cameos maybe adding some like Casey and Claire for Lance, as some had more than others

Things I would change outside of making the battle look better

6v6 first round, I get why they did it this way and am perfectly perfectly ok with the 3v3 but a 6v6 first round would have been great

The masters waiting area should of been somewhere more in the open like how in the unova club tournaments the competitors that weren't battling were on the side watching and talking, that way Ash can still watch the battle in person (which makes a lot of sense and in character sense for him to do that btw) and still be around Iris and co. Plus this could allow Goh and Hop to be there too as Ash and Leon could allow them in or something. So you can keep their commentary and even some moments like, the girls selfie, Ash checking on Iris after her loss or Ash talking with Lance are virtually unchanged but we would at least get the appearance of what people wanted and have Ash in the vicinity of the champions + Alain even if they don't really interact as just Ash commenting on the battles with the others noting his comments to go with Hop’s shock can be something as he knew Mega Charizard X, Iris’s Excadrill etc and maybe they can add to that or maybe not but that would satisfy a lot of the people complaining about that

That's my more realistic change

My more unrealistic change would be to have made it into the rumored/speculated round robin tournament, that way Ash would have had like 5 battles as he could have battle Alain, Steven and someone like Lance in the round robin to move onto the semi finals to battle Cynthia then the finals to battle Leon which would only exclude Iris (who he battled earlier in the series) and Diantha
Would probably not show all the other non Ash battles in turn and maybe only get the key battles like Leon vs Diantha to show Leon’s strength and Iris vs Cynthia as that is Iris’s major battle
And I think if it was 5 battles and if they were 6v6 I think then you can more flexibility with reserves as for example with Steven Ash could bring three Hoenn Pokémon to go with Gengar and Dracovish without “risk” of not using Dragonite Sirfetch’d and Lucario as there would be a confirmed battle with Lance for example and not elimination

But again if the battled animations were 10/10 no one would be wanting to change anything substantial as stuff like reserves or matchups feel too unrealistic for a three round tournament lol

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
My hot take is that I would be perfectly fine with a cast of OC trainers in the Masters 8 if we had properly developed them as characters. I find the current setup to be rather boring because of all the ones we have seen so far, only Iris, Leon, and Cynthia have been seen battling. Can we even count Cynthia because I only recall her battling Team Galactic and not as part of this tournament? Battles serve the story, and Journeys has done a very bad job at story.


Well-Known Member
1. Wataru, Iris, Steven and Alain don't leave, they stay until the end of the tournament.

2. Leon's fight with Alain gets the entire episode (as does the rest of the battles).

3. The third Pokémon of Iris is Lapras (he also shows his G-max form).

4. Mikuri's cameo for the fight Satoshi vs Steven and Clair cameo during the fight Lance vs Diantha


Well-Known Member since the DP Series.
Sheesh, some of you guys seriously need to go touch some grass because even the joke of AJ, Giselle, & even LIlLIE being in here is insane.


No longer trembling not a moment more
Although this doesn’t realistically make sense, I would have enjoyed Gladion being in the Masters 8 -along with Lillie. I always quite enjoyed their rivalry and man has a freaking legendary on his team as an ace.

Although I do believe Ash is Alola’s representative, it would have been having a native Alola trainer especially since we got two Kalos trainers

It sucks he had to stop temporarily battling to chase after Mohn. I also actually would have liked Kiawe since the last we left off was him becoming Island Kahuna.
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Well-Known Member
This is how I would change the Master 8.

1. Triple Elimination format. This way… we can see battles we never seen before.

2. The seeding going to be correct this time. So Leon v. Ash first round and Steven vAlain second round.

3. 6 on 6 battles

Here are the team… I imagine for the Top 8.

Alain : Mega Charizard X, Chestnaught, Malamar, Bisharp, Tyranitar, Weavile.

Iris: Haxorus, Excadrill, Druddigon, Lapras, Emolga, Hydreigon.

Lance : Dragonite, Gyarados, Salamence, Alola Exeggutor, Aerodactyl, Kingdra

Steven: Mega Metagross, Aggron, Cradily, Claydol, Skamory, Armaldo

The rest will be shown in the anime.