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The Isle of Armor & The Crown Tundra DLC - GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
Disagree entirely on that one. It's not logical at all that we could have used a Thunder Stone on a Magneton any number of times in the past four generations, but it never would have worked, and now suddenly it does. That's the opposite of logical.

It also ruins the uniqueness of the Pokémon. Gimmicks like area-based evolution are part of the lore of the franchise that helps to make every Pokémon feel different, and is not something should be gotten rid of.

And in all honesty, why? It's not like area-based evolutions were that hard to implement at all. There's plenty of snow routes to throw a Ice Rock into, two forests to throw a Mossy Rock into, and any number of places in the Wild Area were they could have arbitrarily said has an electromagnetic field.
I didn't expect this topic to blow up like this, so let me just clarify one thing and we can get back to talking about the expansion pass. Namely by "logical" I meant it would have made some sense for them to have been able to evolve that way to begin with, rather than introducing a new method in a unnecessary attempt to "explain" why you couldn't do it in previous games and proceeding to have to include this method for every future game. Yes people would have still likely questioned it, but I think most fans would consider it an acceptable retcon.
 

World Turtle

Well-Known Member
So if the Isle of Armor = Isle of Man and the Crown Tundra = Scotland (the highlands to be exact-where Loch Ness is located so maybe Lapras-based on Nessie and Keldeo-a kelpie might get something here).

Could we see DLC for say places based on Northern Ireland and Cornwall? With the first two DLC bringing back over 200 Pokemon. There will only be about 200 left missing from the Dex cut. So two more DLC and we can get all 890+ Pokemon.
 

AgentKallus

It's not a game Kate.
So if the Isle of Armor = Isle of Man and the Crown Tundra = Scotland (the highlands to be exact-where Loch Ness is located so maybe Lapras-based on Nessie and Keldeo-a kelpie might get something here).

Could we see DLC for say places based on Northern Ireland and Cornwall? With the first two DLC bringing back over 200 Pokemon. There will only be about 200 left missing from the Dex cut. So two more DLC and we can get all 890+ Pokemon.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe they'll patch the others in alongside the next full games or maybe they'll just leave them out ( though I think if they're gonna do some of they they should do em all ).

As for another potential DLC pass, I'd like to see a Welsh dragon Pokémon or regional form so maybe Wales based ( though I'm hoping we could get a Welsh dragon in the known DLC pass). If we get channel island ones perhaps they could do something with the sea spirits den from kalos.
 

Kingudora

My favourite
It's not logical to keep hanging on to a needlessly inconvenient gimmick just to preserve some sort of "consistency" or "canon". Pokemon is a video game and video games get updated with new releases.

Plus...just like using the Lapras you are supposedly riding on in battle never made sense, so any cry for "Why couldn't we use x stone to evolve it before?" never made sense to me. In Gen one we could already love our Pokemon and treat them well...yet no Golbat ever evolved into Crobat... There were no Sentret on Route 1 (in GSC there suddenly were) and NPCs kept saying that there were only 150 Pokemon, when they really should have known about all the others.
Or why couldn't my Vulpix learn Will-O-Wisp in Gen 1? After all I got it to level 24, so it should have learned it, shouldn't it?
There was never consistency in those in any of those areas. So why insist on those evolution gimmicks just to explain "why couldn't we use the Thunder Stone before?" ?

I'm really glad that they finally streamlined those evolutions, especially since they were just inconvenient and often kept you from getting certain evolutions (such as Vikavolt) until late in the game. What's so special about some crummy rock with moss on it anyway that a Leaf Stone shouldn't be able to to?
This also reminds me of how Lickitung and Piloswine could learn Rollout and Ancient Power (respectively) since Gen II through different means, but of course wouldn't evolve with those moves until Gen IV.

Consistency has never really been the main concern for Game Freak, at least not over adding new features and Quality of Life changes.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
That's the thing though: it's a retcon (or, if you prefer the full name,"retroactive continuity"), in which changes are made to a setting or characters to better suit the audience experience, and retcons have been a thing for at least as long as fiction itself. (Other examples include Superman getting the ability to fly without explanation, the back of the house in The Simpsons changing from a graveyard to the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant, and Classic Sonic the Hedgehog being 14 years old when he defeated Dr. Eggman for the first time in Sonic 1 but was 10 years old when that happened in Sonic Generations.)

Yes, it's a retcon, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. Retcons should always be a last case scenario. It should be a priority to keep the world building already established in-tact.

I don't see evolution methods as front-and-center, as all that NPCs ever talk about on the subject are that Pokémon evolution exists and the different ways you could do it. The only Pokémon-specific cases I can think of, which would be part of the lore and not just gameplay mechanics, are that Haunter evolves by trade (NPCs in Kanto trading Haunters and one of them being surprised that it evolved; Gaspar in Sinnoh holding an Everstone), that Eevee evolves via a Water Stone, Thunder Stone, or Fire Stone (NPCs in Kanto and Johto telling you how to get Vaporeon, Jolteon, or Flareon), and that Poipole evolves in a way other than friendship and leveling up (Ultra Recon Squad in Alola attempted them and weren't successful). The most ever said of these location-based evolutions are that certain areas give out a magnetic charge that can allow certain Pokémon to evolve, and the most said about the evolution stones themselves are that they emit a radiation that induces evolution in certain Pokémon. The in-game explanations never contradict the changed evolution methods.

Lore is a whole lot more than what's directly stated in games, especially in a series like Pokémon that focuses on its creatures. The Pokémon themselves, their gimmicks and all, are the central factor of the Pokémon World. It's a part of the world-building.

There are much, much bigger changes whenever an enhanced remake comes out--Mauville City was an ordinary-looking town in Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald but was changed to an indoor town in OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire, with a second-floor residential complex placed on top of it.

And not only does Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire take place canonically in a different timeline than the original Ruby and Sapphire, but the original games were under extreme technological and video game limitations. Limitations like those should not be taken as canon, otherwise it would be canon that bathrooms don't exist in the Pokémon world.

Similarly, the latter set of games have a Battle Maison that didn't exist in the original Hoenn games, and Kyogre and Groudon got Primal forms they didn't have before. The official explanation for the drastic differences in the regions, the characters, the mechanics, etc. is that there are multiple Pokémon universes, each of which operate under different rules. So even if it seems really weird you could use a Thunder Stone to evolve Charjabug into Vikavolt or an Ice Stone to evolve Eevee into Glaceon, there is still that explanation that Sword & Shield could be set in a different universe than the other games. After all, Zinnia does speak of universes where Mega Evolution does not exist--these games might be one of them.

So you want to make the claim that Sword and Shield takes place in its own timeline simply because some Pokémon evolve differently? Seems pretty drastic to me, especially when there are no other indications that these games take place in their own timeline.

Functionally (that is, from a Doylist perspective), this was most likely done so they wouldn't have to shoehorn a mossy rock, an icy rock, and a magnetically charged area into every region and make sure they're located at the right parts of the games that those Pokémon should be allowed to evolve. There were issues in the past in which FireRed and LeafGreen rendered Espeon and Umbreon unobtainable in-game due to a lack of day/night cycles (the Orre games addressed this by just alowing you to catch Espeon and Umbreon), and these are issues Game Freak probably didn't want to do again. The Pokémon games are already a MASSIVE victim of feature creep, and location-based evolutions are likely a lot of work from a design perspective. (Probably not so much from a programming perspective, but the people who design the regions themselves would have an increasingly tough job as more location-based evolutions get made.)

That's the thing though, they're not difficult. Every Pokémon game has an icy/snowy area. Every game has a forest, every game has some sort of power plant or electrical area. Sword and Shield included. Maybe (and that's a strong maybe), if these were games with no obvious place to put the evolution areas, I wouldn't mind as much, but the areas are clearly there, it would not be difficult to use them.

Grubbin/Charjabug/Vikavolt is Alola's regional bug and a readily accessible Pokémon in Alola's early going - I would question where the logic was of making its final evolution unobtainable until one of the final areas in the original Sun & Moon.

I question the logic too, but the solution to that would have been to either not have Vikavolt evolve like that from the beginning, or to find a different electromagnetic area, like they did in Ultra Sun and Moon.

It's not logical to keep hanging on to a needlessly inconvenient gimmick just to preserve some sort of "consistency" or "canon". Pokemon is a video game and video games get updated with new releases.

And it's also a series with massive world-building. And if you have this world-building, it should be the goal to remain consistent if possible. World-building is an important part of video games like Pokémon.

Plus...just like using the Lapras you are supposedly riding on in battle never made sense,

That's a video game mechanic, not a function of the world. Sometime things have to not make sense in order for the video game work, there's plenty of examples of such things in Pokémon. Different issue entirely.

In Gen one we could already love our Pokemon and treat them well...yet no Golbat ever evolved into Crobat... There were no Sentret on Route 1 (in GSC there suddenly were) and NPCs kept saying that there were only 150 Pokemon, when they really should have known about all the others.
Or why couldn't my Vulpix learn Will-O-Wisp in Gen 1? After all I got it to level 24, so it should have learned it, shouldn't it?

I know this isn't the best response, but I would argue that we really shouldn't be looking to Gen I for examples. Game Freak very clearly was still figuring out what they were doing in the first two generations, and it's not really until Gen III that we started getting consistent world-building.

What's so special about some crummy rock with moss on it anyway that a Leaf Stone shouldn't be able to to?

That it's a completely different object with completely different effects on Pokémon, perhaps.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
And it's also a series with massive world-building. And if you have this world-building, it should be the goal to remain consistent if possible. World-building is an important part of video games like Pokémon.
Yeah no... The world building in Pokemon, especially the early generations has been kinda shoddy imho (very little about the pre-Alola Pokemon leagues made sense, and we still have no idea who actually rules the various regions, for example). And I wouldn't call the Moss Rock or some overly-specific evolution requirements integral parts of the world building.
That's a video game mechanic, not a function of the world. Sometime things have to not make sense in order for the video game work, there's plenty of examples of such things in Pokémon. Different issue entirely.

I would argue they are both video game mechanics (surfing and location specific evolution). And it's, in my opinion, completely alright to overhaul a clumsy game mechanic. After all this is a video game series with very little continuity, not the Lord of the Rings (and guess what even Tolkien had retcons and inconsistencies, even within the Lotr itself).
The elemental stones have also been kinda neglected in recent generations, especially the older stones.

I know this isn't the best response, but I would argue that we really shouldn't be looking to Gen I for examples. Game Freak very clearly was still figuring out what they were doing in the first two generations, and it's not really until Gen III that we started getting consistent world-building.

The Vulpix one is also a Gen 2 example, since it couldn't learn that move then either. And there's heaps of other move set changes. Pretty much every generation. Why is giving Pokemon access to moves they couldn't previously learn okay, but not evolution methods?
And as Kingudra pointed out above...Licktung could learn Rollout before Gen 4...but only after Gen 4 it caused it to evolve into Lickilicky...how's that for "consistency"?
Fairy Type is another good example. How come in Gens 1-5 Jigglypuff wasn't immune to Dragon attacks?
In an evolving series like this stuff like this will happen.
 

Reinhardt

You! Me! Rivals! Yes?
So if the Isle of Armor = Isle of Man and the Crown Tundra = Scotland (the highlands to be exact-where Loch Ness is located so maybe Lapras-based on Nessie and Keldeo-a kelpie might get something here).

Could we see DLC for say places based on Northern Ireland and Cornwall? With the first two DLC bringing back over 200 Pokemon. There will only be about 200 left missing from the Dex cut. So two more DLC and we can get all 890+ Pokemon.
Depending where the Crown Tundra starts, for example south of Postwick and Wedgehusrt, that could potentially mean the area of England where I live (south of the Scottish border but north of the places where Postwick, Wedgehurst and the south Wild Area are based on) has been left out and won't have a Pokemon world equivalent. This makes me sadder than it probably should.
Anyway, perhaps if the first two parts of the DLC get a positive reception we may see a third or fourth DLC area, though personally I'd rather have a Diamond and Pearl revival in 2021 after The Crown Tundra. I'm not really that fussed about the lack of National Dex any more, there's only a small handful of Pokemon I like such as Gogoat and Florges which I'm hoping return.
 
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Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
Do you think the free update will let us transfer pokémon available in the DLC as soon as Pokémon Home comes out next month? Since we were able to catch Galarian Slowpoke now, I'm wondering if we'll at least be able transfer Pokémon that will be available in the Isle of Armor.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
I question the logic too, but the solution to that would have been to either not have Vikavolt evolve like that from the beginning, or to find a different electromagnetic area, like they did in Ultra Sun and Moon.

Or... the solution is to do what they did, which is to say "we did a thing, it's not necessarily the most perfect decision, so we're going to undo it." Worldbuilding above all is fine in a movie or a television show, but in a video game, where gameplay has to take priority, "they can't change it because they set it that way in a previous game and also worldbuilding" isn't a particularly compelling argument.

Do you think the free update will let us transfer pokémon available in the DLC as soon as Pokémon Home comes out next month? Since we were able to catch Galarian Slowpoke now, I'm wondering if we'll at least be able transfer Pokémon that will be available in the Isle of Armor.

They made it seem like the free updates will come day and date with the DLC packs. I'm not inclined to believe HOME will allow any transfers that aren't currently in the data for Sword/Shield at the outset, but ultimately we can't tell for you sure until next month.
 

Kingudora

My favourite
Do you think the free update will let us transfer pokémon available in the DLC as soon as Pokémon Home comes out next month? Since we were able to catch Galarian Slowpoke now, I'm wondering if we'll at least be able transfer Pokémon that will be available in the Isle of Armor.
Maybe, but the game would need to be updated to add those pokémon, since those aren't in the game files at the moment. The 1.1.0 patch only added Slowpoke and Galarian Slowpoke (and only those, not even Slowbro & Slowking).

Then again, the game will most likely will recieve another patch for compatibility with Home, and there are some icons for pokémon that likely will be updated in that patch. Currently, most icons for unavailable regional forms don't fit the current style for pokémon icons in SwSh, so proper icons will probably be added as Home comes out.
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
Could we see DLC for say places based on Northern Ireland and Cornwall? With the first two DLC bringing back over 200 Pokemon. There will only be about 200 left missing from the Dex cut. So two more DLC and we can get all 890+ Pokemon.

If they do one for Northern Ireland, I hope we get the legendary group for this generation. Just as the Alolan Guardians corresponded to each of the major islands in Alola, it would be neat to have a quartet again, this time corresponding to the four countries within the UK.

As for another potential DLC pass, I'd like to see a Welsh dragon Pokémon or regional form so maybe Wales based ( though I'm hoping we could get a Welsh dragon in the known DLC pass). If we get channel island ones perhaps they could do something with the sea spirits den from kalos.

I just kind of interpreted Charizard being in the game as Galar's Welsh dragon.
 

World Turtle

Well-Known Member
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe they'll patch the others in alongside the next full games or maybe they'll just leave them out ( though I think if they're gonna do some of they they should do em all ).

As for another potential DLC pass, I'd like to see a Welsh dragon Pokémon or regional form so maybe Wales based ( though I'm hoping we could get a Welsh dragon in the known DLC pass). If we get channel island ones perhaps they could do something with the sea spirits den from kalos.

Actually according to Bulbapedia Spikemuth is Wales. This might explain why its the one resisting Dynamax and is the home base for Team Yell.

From what I've looked up the national colors of the UK match perfectly with the Pokemon games.
England = White (and Red)
Wales = Red
Scotland = Blue (and White)
Northern Ireland = Green
Cornwall = Black

Granted from the looks of it The Crown Tundra (Scotland) is being associated with Green since Sword is doing "Blue" (Cyan).

Meanwhile the Isle of Armor (Man) is being associated with Yellow.

That just leaves White and Black.
 
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Mismage

Ultra Adimensional Treiner
How about the treiners we may face on expansion, would them have Lv.100 Pokémon and represent some challenge? I hope so.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Is Cornwall its own country? I was not aware of that.

It isn't. It's a county within England and a historical region.

Interestingly enough, the Isle of Man is neither part of England, nor of the UK, but a "self governing" direct possession of the Crown.

Also, the Colour of Northern Ireland is Blue, not Green. Green is the colour of the Republic of Ireland, since Blue was the colour of the whole of Ireland when it was still part of the UK, Green only became the symbolic colour of the RoI when it became independent.
 
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World Turtle

Well-Known Member
It isn't. It's a county within England and a historical region.

Interestingly enough, the Isle of Man is neither part of England, nor of the UK, but a "self governing" direct possession of the Crown.

Also, the Colour of Northern Ireland is Blue, not Green. Green is the colour of the Republic of Ireland, since Blue was the colour of the whole of Ireland when it was still part of the UK, Green only became the symbolic colour of the RoI when it became independent.

Someone should add that to the wiki then. Or maybe I missed it/misunderstood. If so my bad. I always try to give accurate information.
 

AgentKallus

It's not a game Kate.
I used to think the Isle of Wight was it's on country like the Isle of Man is but then I found out that it was just part of England.



Actually according to Bulbapedia Spikemuth is Wales. This might explain why its the one resisting Dynamax and is the home base for Team Yell.

But does bulbapedia have an official source for that claim? I mean when they said Galar was based on the UK I assumed it'd be inspired by the 3 countries on the island of Britain but now that the crown tundra is confirmed to be based off of Scotland, it's looks like the bits of Galar in the base game are mostly based off of England with hints of other British countries ( like the bagpipes in the music or Wooloo who seems very Welsh to me).

I mean Spikemuth certainly could be inspired by a few different Welsh towns, but when I first encountered Spikemuth in game I first thought of seaside towns like Blackpool and Boscombe that were hit hard by the dawn of international holidays. Though industrial towns that became delapidated due to Thatcher's deindustrialisation could be another inspiration but like the seaside towns that didn't immediately get a new niche these town appear across the UK not just in Wales.

Looking at the base game not much feels very specifically Welsh tbh, so a Welsh based DLC makes as much sense as a Scottish one, imo.



I just kind of interpreted Charizard being in the game as Galar's Welsh dragon.

Charizard doesn't really fit the criteria for what I'd want from such a Pokémon, but you could be right.

I mean personally I'd want a Welsh Dragon Pokémon to be a new Pokémon or regional form made for Galar. It'd also be nice if it resembled the Welsh dragon more than charizard does in shape andor colour, also one would hope it'd be a dragon type. I know we could easily have gen 8 end without a Welsh dragon Pokémon, and that Pokémon like to think outside of the box and so avoid something as obvious as a Welsh dragon Pokémon but until gen 8 ends I'm gonna keep hoping for one.

If they do one for Northern Ireland, I hope we get the legendary group for this generation. Just as the Alolan Guardians corresponded to each of the major islands in Alola, it would be neat to have a quartet again, this time corresponding to the four countries within the UK.

Not to sound like a broken record, but if they did this do you know what's a cool thing they could base a Welsh guardian on...........

Or they could base them on the heraldic flowers for each country, a rose for England, a flax for Northern Ireland, a daffodil for Wales and a thistle for Scotland.
 
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World Turtle

Well-Known Member
But does bulbapedia have an official source for that claim? I mean when they said Galar was based on the UK I assumed it'd be inspired by the 3 countries on the island of Britain but now that the crown tundra is confirmed to be based off of Scotland, it's looks like the bits of Galar in the base game are mostly based off of England with hints of other British countries ( like the bagpipes in the music or Wooloo who seems very Welsh to me).

I mean Spikemuth certainly could be inspired by a few different Welsh towns, but when I first encountered Spikemuth in game I first thought of seaside towns like Blackpool and Boscombe that were hit hard by the dawn of international holidays. Though industrial towns that became delapidated due to Thatcher's deindustrialisation could be another inspiration but like the seaside towns that didn't immediately get a new niche these town appear across the UK not just in Wales.

Looking at the base game not much feels very specifically Welsh tbh, so a Welsh based DLC makes as much sense as a Scottish one, imo.

Well the Crown Tundra and Isle of Armor are locations that are off the main Galar Map. So looking at a map of the UK and flipping it upside down and comparing it with the Galar map. Everything directly below that peninsula at the top right of the Galar map should be Wales but Circhester is based on Somerset, England so it looks like some stuff got shoved around or heavily condensed.

Though taking into account GF taking creative liberties Galar doesn't have to be 1 for 1 the same.

Spikemuth is in the general area Wales would be and since its the home-base of Team Yell and Piers is against Dynamax it might be playing into the Welsh-English rivalry since it sets them apart from the rest of Galar.
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
But does bulbapedia have an official source for that claim? I mean when they said Galar was based on the UK I assumed it'd be inspired by the 3 countries on the island of Britain but now that the crown tundra is confirmed to be based off of Scotland, it's looks like the bits of Galar in the base game are mostly based off of England with hints of other British countries ( like the bagpipes in the music or Wooloo who seems very Welsh to me).

I mean Spikemuth certainly could be inspired by a few different Welsh towns, but when I first encountered Spikemuth in game I first thought of seaside towns like Blackpool and Boscombe that were hit hard by the dawn of international holidays. Though industrial towns that became delapidated due to Thatcher's deindustrialisation could be another inspiration but like the seaside towns that didn't immediately get a new niche these town appear across the UK not just in Wales.

Looking at the base game not much feels very specifically Welsh tbh, so a Welsh based DLC makes as much sense as a Scottish one, imo.

Game Freak very rarely ever says what certain locations are based on, so Bulbapedia's folks do a lot of extrapolation. That being said, they're usually very good at this, as the Bulbapedia editors collectively know a vast amount of information and other general trivia across a wide range of topics.

They've done it with every region. Here is a link.

As a wiki, of course, anyone is free to correct any information with something more accurate. I don't know much about the geography of the UK, so I've taken their word for it.
 
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