The Isle of Armor & The Crown Tundra DLC - GENERAL DISCUSSION Thread

[Zadent]

In as general terms as possible. I was looking for a more engaging/complete post-game storyline.
In more specific terms:
Maybe have some of the characters from the main storyline appear for more closure to their arcs (most of which died around Ballonlea)
Have the fights more optimized towards players who have already beat the game as well (as I said don't just scale up the level of Avery's sole Abra, give him a more complete team if I've already beat the champion)

And since you say ideally. Not that I necessary expected it, but if I had a free Pokemon-DLC related wish, then 5 new Galarian forms altogether.

those are reasonable, and I can agree those were lacking. Honestly, one of my biggest criticisms of the scaling for both was that they made the DLC areas open to anyone the moment they hit the Wild Area. Imo, the rivals and the battles may have been received better if they were only given after beating Leon. Then they would not have to code either a poor team like we saw for postgame players ir 2+ teams per trainer for scaling.

 

[Marzbar]

In addition to the above valid critiques (lack of post game storyline, lack of regional forms, lack of character story arc etc), one thing that really bothers me is the blanket level 60 for all wild Pokémon once you’ve finished the main story. This just seems forced and unnatural and annoying. I’d rather have weaker Pokémon like Caterpie and Rookidee as level 10ish and then you run into stronger Pokémon that are much higher levels. Make some of the overworld Pokémon like mini boss battles. Like when you see a wild Gengar or Machamp or Steelix etc, make it level 70-90 at random. Make it more like a real ecosystem with some difficulty variation. Rather than a million level 60 Jigglypuffs and Bunearys on IOA. Makes no sense to me.
Also, with the weather system, would it be too much to ask for when the weather is Snowing or Sandstorm or Raining/Thunderstorm, give us some piles of snow, sand or puddles??? So dumb walking around in the same boring green grass and the air is filled with falling snow/water/sand. Where is the realism??? Where is all the snow going??

 

[Zadent]

In addition to the above valid critiques (lack of post game storyline, lack of regional forms, lack of character story arc etc), one thing that really bothers me is the blanket level 60 for all wild Pokémon once you’ve finished the main story. This just seems forced and unnatural and annoying. I’d rather have weaker Pokémon like Caterpie and Rookidee as level 10ish and then you run into stronger Pokémon that are much higher levels. Make some of the overworld Pokémon like mini boss battles. Like when you see a wild Gengar or Machamp or Steelix etc, make it level 70-90 at random. Make it more like a real ecosystem with some difficulty variation. Rather than a million level 60 Jigglypuffs and Bunearys on IOA. Makes no sense to me.
Also, with the weather system, would it be too much to ask for when the weather is Snowing or Sandstorm or Raining/Thunderstorm, give us some piles of snow, sand or puddles??? So dumb walking around in the same boring green grass and the air is filled with falling snow/water/sand. Where is the realism??? Where is all the snow going??

The level issue makes sense. It is weird, but, at the same time, it gives some extra viable exp gaining means outside XP Candy. Some strong encounters could be higher though (like the level 80 Wailord).

as for Weather, I think the issue that is run into there is that multiple map designs would be needed for each possible segment, and the Wild Area is a massive no loading screen area to build that. We haven’t really had map changes like that since the seasons in Gen 5, but each of those 4 variations would’ve had to be made and coded to work when they were supposed to (on a monthly cycle), and everything changed.

Granted, the weather doesn’t change while you’re in the Wild Area, but that’s looking at designing multiple versions of each pocket for the different main weather patterns, which can happen at random times. I miss seasons, and do think such touches would be nice, but i have a feeling it might be trickier to implement for all the wild area sections.

 

[Reinhardt]

The last time Gigantamax Gengar was in a Raid event, I ran into a lot of them but never managed to catch any of them, they would always pop out of the Ultra Balls and get away. I'm happy they're being made available again, so I hopefully don't have to blow any Max Mushrooms on a regular Gengar.

 

[ShadowForce720]

The last time Gigantamax Gengar was in a Raid event, I ran into a lot of them but never managed to catch any of them, they would always pop out of the Ultra Balls and get away. I'm happy they're being made available again, so I hopefully don't have to blow any Max Mushrooms on a regular Gengar.

If your having trouble catching them with Ultra Balls then I would recommend using Dusk Balls or if you already have a Gengar registered to your Galar Dex then you can use Repeat Balls, because Repeat Balls and Dusk Balls have a better catch rate then Ultra Balls.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

If your having trouble catching them with Ultra Balls then I would recommend using Dusk Balls or if you already have a Gengar registered to your Galar Dex then you can use Repeat Balls, because Repeat Balls and Dusk Balls have a better catch rate then Ultra Balls.

Quick Balls also work as it seems to count as one turn for capture.

 

[Bguy7]

Paying for $30 of DLC that has a fair amount of content is better than paying $60 for a slightly enhanced game with a few things added.

I disagree majorly. Playing third versions still feels like you're playing a full new game. They change just enough that it doesn't feel like the game is mostly the same, even if it is. You still get a complete Pokémon experience. This DLC feels like a minor fraction of a full game. It's an incomplete experience. Maybe if the DLC was something like $10, but even if Crown Tundra blows Isle of Armor out of the water, it's going to be hard for me to say that it feels like the DLC is worth half the cost of a whole game.

Also on the topic of DLC vs Third Versions. I genuinely think they should scratch the entire dual version model and focus on making one good game and then release a whole “sequel“ level DLC after about 6-7 months with enough content to hold people over until the next game. And to keep trading relevant they could make certain pokemon behave sort of like Vivillon but actual species where some Pokémon are exclusive or more common to actual real world regions. That way trading can still be a staple of the series.

Here's the thing, the dual version model does not stop them from being able to focus on making a good game. The changes made from one version to the other are so minor that chopping the second version would not give them any more ability to make a better game. It's not like they're over-extending themselves and trying to make two completely separate games at the same time, which affects their productivity. Having two versions is not holding them back, so why ditch the tradition?

 

[Carkol]

I feel like the point of the DLCs is also to bring back some of the dexit pokemon too. That way, in a Gen 9 or D/P remake, they can just copy/paste rather than start from scratch.

The last time they upgraded to a new console was Gen 6, could that be why Gen 6 had the least amount of new pokemon altogether?

 

[IrieFuse]

Here’s the thing, the dual version model does not stop them from being able to focus on making a good game. The changes made from one version to the other are so minor that chopping the second version would not give them any more ability to make a better game. It's not like they're over-extending themselves and trying to make two completely separate games at the same time, which affects their productivity. Having two versions is not holding them back, so why ditch the tradition?

I know it’s not a major task to make small alterations but that’s thing — Pokémon games these days are just shy of being great games. They’re good. But if they used those resources including the extra time it takes to make those alterations, into instead polishing a single title more and maybe even add some features that would only benefit the consumers.

Let’s not forget the games are just now setting us back $60 instead of $35-$40. What used to cost $80 for the pair has now turned into $120 so even though it’s not everybody that cares to get both versions, I think it’d be best to just focus on one, more refined, version of any main series games going forward.

With that said, I’d 100% much rather see a platinum remake rather than DP remakes.

 

[Bguy7]

I know it’s not a major task to make small alterations but that’s thing — Pokémon games these days are just shy of being great games. They’re good. But if they used those resources including the extra time it takes to make those alterations, into instead polishing a single title more and maybe even add some features that would only benefit the consumers.

The point I'm trying to make is that they would save practically no resources by making only one game. The time and effort it takes to change a few variables here and there and make a few characters say something slightly different amounts to almost nothing. The time and effort it would take to truly polish a Pokémon game and add more features would be much more than anything they could ever save from doing only one game.

Let’s not forget the games are just now setting us back $60 instead of $35-$40. What used to cost $80 for the pair has now turned into $120 so even though it’s not everybody that cares to get both versions, I think it’d be best to just focus on one, more refined, version of any main series games going forward.

That doesn't really change anything, since the purpose of the dual version model has never been to get people to buy both. Yes, some people do, and yes, I'm sure Game Freak and the Pokémon Company love it when they do, but that's not the point. The point was to allow people to have different experiences from each other in order to encourage playing together and sharing the experience. If someone likes to buy both versions, that's great, but they can't complain about Game Freak not considering the increase in price when there intention wasn't to have someone buy both.

With that said, I’d 100% much rather see a platinum remake rather than DP remakes.

I agree completely, but that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[IrieFuse]

The point I'm trying to make is that they would save practically no resources by making only one game. The time and effort it takes to change a few variables here and there and make a few characters say something slightly different amounts to almost nothing. The time and effort it would take to truly polish a Pokémon game and add more features would be much more than anything they could ever save from doing only one game.



That doesn't really change anything, since the purpose of the dual version model has never been to get people to buy both. Yes, some people do, and yes, I'm sure Game Freak and the Pokémon Company love it when they do, but that's not the point. The point was to allow people to have different experiences from each other in order to encourage playing together and sharing the experience. If someone likes to buy both versions, that's great, but they can't complain about Game Freak not considering the increase in price when there intention wasn't to have someone buy both.



I agree completely, but that has nothing to do with the topic.

I agree that it wouldn’t save them enough resources and time to make a big difference but I still think it would make an improvement in one way or another. Maybe even something subtle like giving those damn trees a more realistic texture, or incorporating more lifelike weather. If I hadn’t played breath of the wild I genuinely wouldn’t be bothered and wouldn’t really know how far the switch can be pushed but I really think it’s much more than SwSh were able to. And I know that comes from time crunches too, not splitting the game into two.

And well I guess it was sort of relevant to the topic since it goes with my wish for them to do away with dual versions, but no, it doesn’t necessarily have to do with the topic we are discussing.

Anyway, I already got the expansion pass since IoA came out and while I was happy with the first expansion at first, I got bored of it almost immediately after completing the “story” part of it. At this point with what we know so far, I can’t say I’m even remotely excited for Crown Tundra, although I’ll play it since I already have the pass.

 

[Ophie]

Can't wait to use Galarian Slowking. Wasn't a big fan of Galarian Slowbro because of it's stat distribution, but it looks like Slowking will be more defensive, which is what I want with that typing (I'm hoping for 95 HP, 70 Atk, 100 Def, 95 Sp. Atk, 100 Sp. Def, 30 Speed). Looking forward to spreading Toxic and keeping my allies healthy.

Tapu Bulu is my favourite Tapu, so I'm stoked it's getting Grassy Glide and Play Rough.

Dynamax Adventures and Star Tournament look fun. I'm especially excited for the latter, because I like playing Doubles. I'm wary of the former, because I find it impossible to get people to join my raid battles.

Ability Patch is a welcome addition.

Ah, I see. You swapped the offensive and defensive base stats from Galarian Slowbro. I get it now. With EV-training and Recover and/or Slack Off, you could make it something like Mandibuzz.

It is just from what was seen on the website the initial rental Pokémon seem to be underwhelming (special Flareon, really?). Granted the format is loosely based off the Battle Factory where you can swap out your Pokémon for those you just beat but having players stuck with NFEs can be nerve wrecking once you face the Legendary.

Remember the special Alolan Marowak in the Battle Agency? Granted, the BP rewards in that were insane so I ranked up as far as I could, even if it ultimately was unpopular.

The Rental Battles in Pokémon Battle Revolution also felt quite engaging, since by aggressively swapping out one of your Pokémon for one of the ones the AI players use as you beat them, you would get gradually better Pokémon, AND you could use them online against other peolpe if you wished. I made it all the way to the end and wound up with a team that could keep up with other people playing online with their non-rental teams. These Pokémon were fully-evolved, EV-trained in logical ways, and had movesets and Abilities that made sense.

Let’s not forget the games are just now setting us back $60 instead of $35-$40. What used to cost $80 for the pair has now turned into $120 so even though it’s not everybody that cares to get both versions, I think it’d be best to just focus on one, more refined, version of any main series games going forward.

I want to point something out: Adjusted for inflation, games have been, for most years, decreasing in price.

For instance, when I got Sonic 3, it was US$85. Adjusted for inflation to today, that would be about $149. A game at that price would have people shocked and flat-out refuse to buy it. Games have to keep their price point due to a combination of people getting used to those prices and due to indie games coming out with extremely low budgets that can get away with lower prices (and usually have to in order to keep up with AAA games). This is why we have stuff like DLC and freemium models today. It's the only way to get people to pay $149 for a game.

 

[IrieFuse]

I want to point something out: Adjusted for inflation, games have been, for most years, decreasing in price.

For instance, when I got Sonic 3, it was US$85. Adjusted for inflation to today, that would be about $149. A game at that price would have people shocked and flat-out refuse to buy it. Games have to keep their price point due to a combination of people getting used to those prices and due to indie games coming out with extremely low budgets that can get away with lower prices (and usually have to in order to keep up with AAA games). This is why we have stuff like DLC and freemium models today. It's the only way to get people to pay $149 for a game.

Thanks for this info that’s 100% true. Inflation is slow and gradual but it does add up and when games stay the same price for a long time well then they are decreasing in price when you take inflation into account, like you said.

I guess that somewhat makes my point useless!

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Thanks for this info that’s 100% true. Inflation is slow and gradual but it does add up and when games stay the same price for a long time well then they are decreasing in price when you take inflation into account, like you said.

I guess that somewhat makes my point useless!

Wasn’t there also some outrage over Sonic 3 because it was technically half of a game and people didn’t like paying that much for an incomplete game if they didn’t buy Sonic & Knuckles when it came out?

 

[Heatleo]

Wasn’t there also some outrage over Sonic 3 because it was technically half of a game and people didn’t like paying that much for an incomplete game if they didn’t buy Sonic & Knuckles when it came out?

I think you are correct. I know youtubers have covered Sonic 3 before, or for a more accurate source Wikipedia I'm pretty sure mentions something about what you said.

 

[Nave]

Are there any Pokemon that had not had their HA released, but might have it released with Ability Patch?

 

[ShadowForce720]

Are there any Pokemon that had not had their HA released, but might have it released with Ability Patch?

The main ones that come to mind are the Galar fossils.

 

[Prince Amrod]

It's only those four. I've made it a mission to collect all available hidden abilities just for something to do in the game and that involved logging which couldn't be obtained at all.

 

[Ophie]

Wasn’t there also some outrage over Sonic 3 because it was technically half of a game and people didn’t like paying that much for an incomplete game if they didn’t buy Sonic & Knuckles when it came out?

Yes, there was. Sonic 3 had a little over half as many stages as Sonic 2 (12 stages in Sonic 3 compared to 20 stages in Sonic 2), though the Sonic 3 stages were a lot bigger and had more branching pathways, which meant Sonic 3 was focused on the replay value. It was also a lot easier than Sonic 2, and it didn't really feel complete. You fought Eggman in Launch Base Act 2, stuff blew up, and the credits rolled. Even for excuse plots of the time, it felt like something was missing.

The behind-the-scenes reason for it was because Sonic 3 had undergone setbacks in its development that caused the game to not only fall far behind schedule, but run way over-budget. The final release for Sonic 3 were the six Zones, with two Acts each, that were complete at the time. (You can see how screwed up the schedule became if you enter in the level-select cheat, as it contained six stages that would later be in Sonic & Knuckles.) The rest would be finished later and was released as Sonic & Knuckles, a spiritual ancestor to the DLC expansion--one that would cost $149 in today's US dollars but would more than double the length of the game and actually make it feel complete.

(Those of you who have been following the development of Pokémon Sword and Shield may find this story to be a LITTLE familiar.)

It took a LONG time for this stigma behind Sonic 3 & Knuckles essentially being a double-priced game to go away, which was roughly when the entire thing was re-released on later systems at a discount. Nowadays, the consensus among Sonic fans is that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the best of the Classic Era, but it was Sonic 2 for many years due to it being the last complete release of the era. (SEGA still has a nasty reputation for never delaying any games.)

 

[Ignition]

Are there any Pokemon that had not had their HA released, but might have it released with Ability Patch?

I think the Tapus (Telepathy) & Heatran (Flame Body) could maybe get their HA legalized in the CT