The Kanto Classic

[jstinftw!]

*Original post by DragonWhale

In honor of the 20th anniversary of Red/Blue/Green, we have a new online competition
KANTO CLASSIC!

★Participants will receive a special "Lance's Dragonite"!
*Players who are removed from the rankings will not receive this gift
*To be on the rankings, you must play at least 3 battles with a winner/loser

★The method and time to receive the present will be announced in the middle of March when the rankings are announced.

*************************************************************************
<<Details on the Dragonite>>
■Level：62
■OT：ワタル (or "Lance" in English versions I'm guessing)
■Ability：Inner Focus
■Moves
・Agility
・Slam
・Barrier
・Hyper Beam
*************************************************************************

■Compatible Games
Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire

■Sign-up Period
2016/2/25（Thr）14:00～3/4（Fri）8:59

*If you have both Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire in your account, you may enter with both games.
*You must sign up for each game

■Competition Period
2016/3/4（Fri）9:00～7（Mon）8:59

■Participation Limit
50,000 (limit subject to change; first come, first served)

■Age Divisions
Junior/Senior Division: Born 2001 or later
Masters Division: Born 2000 or earlier

• Junior Division players are limited to playing between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m., based on the eastern-most time zone in each player’s country.

■Ranking Results Announcement
March, 2016 (announcement time subject to change)

■Competition Rules
【Battle Format】Single Battle
【Eligible Pokemon】No.001～149 in the National Dex

Pokémon brought over from Pokémon Black, Pokémon White, Pokémon Black 2, or Pokémon White 2 via Poké Transporter can participate in this competition.



【Pokémon to Register in the Battle Box】
6 Pokémon between level 1-100

*All Pokémon above level 50 will automatically become level 50 for the duration of each match

【The Use of Items】
In this competition, Pokémon are not allowed to hold items

【Time per Match】
Max 60 Minutes

【Time at Team Preview】
60 Seconds

【Time per Turn】
60 Seconds

【Battles Available per Day】
10

Any unplayed games will carry over to the following day. A new day begins at 00:00 UTC.

*************************************************************************
​

So let's discuss! What do you think this weird metagame will look like? What strategies do you think will be most common and how do you suggest you play against it? This is the first 6v6 Online Competition officially held that I can remember, so this should be pretty fun!

 

[Psynergy]

This is the same post as DragonWhale's, I see you.

But actually, I'm really concerned about bulky slow playstyles thriving in this format. 6v6 is awful on cart when stall is added to the equation, so hopefully removing items like Leftovers makes this less effective here. Clefable looks like a monster here too so Minimize Clefable will be garbage to deal with and will probably justify running OHKO moves just for it. Dragonite and Gyarados will probably be the premier sweepers, Psychic types are strong just like in RBY and Magneton will be good by virtue of being the only Steel-type.

I am also starting to wonder if this competition will even be done outside of Japan given how long it's taken for it to be announced, but I guess we'll see.

 

[WishIhadaManafi5]

Oh heck yes. I'm so hyped about this. Not the best with competitive battling, but meh... this one is for nostalgic reasons. Tried to catch Lance's Dragonite back in the day.

This is the same post as DragonWhale's, I see you.

But actually, I'm really concerned about bulky slow playstyles thriving in this format. 6v6 is awful on cart when stall is added to the equation, so hopefully removing items like Leftovers makes this less effective here. Clefable looks like a monster here too so Minimize Clefable will be garbage to deal with and will probably justify running OHKO moves just for it. Dragonite and Gyarados will probably be the premier sweepers, Psychic types are strong just like in RBY and Magneton will be good by virtue of being the only Steel-type.

I am also starting to wonder if this competition will even be done outside of Japan given how long it's taken for it to be announced, but I guess we'll see.

Yea bulky Mon are pretty tough to knock out.

Agreed, and with it's partial (iirc) Fairy typing it'll be a little tougher to take down. Add in Sing... and it's more of a joy to deal with. Hated it back in R, B and Y. Still do now.

 

[BugCatcher6]

Every time I try to build a team that is defensive, I am destroyed by a hyper offensive team.

For some reason I want to just make a full Sun team and try to out move everything.

 

[Karxrida]

Chansey is still usable despite the lack of Eviolite and the introduction of Psyshock. Alakazam barely has a chance to 2HKO after Rocks if Chansey runs 252/252/4 Bold instead of 4/252/252, and access to Thunder Wave means that it can scare it out.

Will Sleep leads be a thing like they used to be? Doubt it; Aero kind of screws them since it has STABs, Taunt, Base 130 Speed, and SR to make it the go-to lead. People may start running Jolteon (who looks like it might be legit to use in this Meta) to hope to win the Speed tie and stop it.

I don't see the Rocks being useful like the old days. Zapdos has Hidden Power now and Normal resists aren't as important.

Dragonite is probably the new Tauros. Kill Clefable, DD, and GG.

 

[jstinftw!]

This is the same post as DragonWhale's, I see you.

Whoops! I meant to leave some sort of credit but I guess I forgot in my excitement. Has been corrected.

But actually, I'm really concerned about bulky slow playstyles thriving in this format. 6v6 is awful on cart when stall is added to the equation, so hopefully removing items like Leftovers makes this less effective here.

Yeah, I think everyone definitely needs to make sure they have a solution or are at least prepared to deal with Stall teams. The 60 minute timer definitely does not help remedy against it. Expect long battles!

Clefable looks like a monster here too so Minimize Clefable will be garbage to deal with and will probably justify running OHKO moves just for it.

Yeah, apparently that'll be a thing. Some people have mentioned that maybe using Body Slam Snorlax is a way to deal with, since Snorlax can function as either a Special or Physical Wall (if you run Curse), since moves like Body Slam and Stomp hit through Minimize, AND do double the damage. This could help open up other options for team building.

I am also starting to wonder if this competition will even be done outside of Japan given how long it's taken for it to be announced, but I guess we'll see.

It was announced officially today! It's happening in the US too.

Will Sleep leads be a thing like they used to be? Doubt it; Aero kind of screws them since it has STABs, Taunt, Base 130 Speed, and SR to make it the go-to lead. People may start running Jolteon (who looks like it might be legit to use in this Meta) to hope to win the Speed tie and stop it.

I don't see Sleep leads being a really big thing. I mean, who's really going to put everyone to sleep? Venusaur is a possible option, but beyond that, who else can reliable put things to sleep and be useful in other areas? There's Butterfree with the 97% accurate Sleep Powder, but doesn't do much else, there's Parasect who's not very viable even just for putting things to sleep. I guess Victreebell, but that would probably need Sun up to really be effective. So unless you start going down the Hypnosis list, there's not much to put things to sleep with.

I was thinking about Aero as well, and that Jolteon you mentioned actually seems like a good idea. I'll definitely have to look into that. I love Jolteon.

I don't see the Rocks being useful like the old days. Zapdos has Hidden Power now and Normal resists aren't as important.

Probably not, but Golem, Onix, and Rhydon could still prove to be problematic if you're not prepared. I think a Sun team could really utilize a Rock type if you can remove Grass types.

Dragonite is probably the new Tauros. Kill Clefable, DD, and GG.

Yeahhh pretty much. Stealth Rocks are going to be so important. I think you definitely need to make sure you have an answer for Gyarados, Dragonite, and Nidoking in this meta. Like Psyenergy mentioned earlier, Psychic types are going to be killer in this meta, so Sucker Punch Nidoking is going to be very viable, and you'll need to have an answer for it.




So like, everyone, what do you think needs to be prepared for? I mentioned Dragonite, Gyardos, and Nidoking, and I'd throw in Clefable and Chansey in with the bunch. What else do you guys think should be prepared for?

 

[Psynergy]

Whoops! I meant to leave some sort of credit but I guess I forgot in my excitement. Has been corrected.

Don't worry, I'm just being cheeky.

But yeah another Pokemon I think might be good is Venomoth. Quiver Dancer with Sleep Powder and Baton Pass could really make something like Nidoking a complete monster to deal with. I could see Magneton and Starmie also being scary recipients, the former especially because of its Steel-typing and already high Special Attack. Rhydon also seems pretty good as an offensive SR setter though I haven't really played so I'm just tossing out ideas here.

 

[BugCatcher6]

Don't worry, I'm just being cheeky.

But yeah another Pokemon I think might be good is Venomoth. Quiver Dancer with Sleep Powder and Baton Pass could really make something like Nidoking a complete monster to deal with. I could see Magneton and Starmie also being scary recipients, the former especially because of its Steel-typing and already high Special Attack. Rhydon also seems pretty good as an offensive SR setter though I haven't really played so I'm just tossing out ideas here.

I was thinking Butterfree. Compoundeyes boost Sleep Powder to 97.5%, also has Quiver Dance. I think Butterfree is faster than Minimize Clefable.

 

[KillerDraco]

I was thinking Butterfree. Compoundeyes boost Sleep Powder to 97.5%, also has Quiver Dance. I think Butterfree is faster than Minimize Clefable.

Butterfree doesn't learn Baton Pass. So it can Quiver Dance but it can't pass it to another 'Mon, which is the crux of the whole strategy.

 

[BugCatcher6]

Butterfree doesn't learn Baton Pass. So it can Quiver Dance but it can't pass it to another 'Mon, which is the crux of the whole strategy.

Sorry not trying to start an argument.

I was stating that I was thinking of Butterfree for the same reasons you mentioned with Venomoth.

From testing on Showdown Baton Pass is predictable and if Sleep Powder misses there is rarely a 2nd chance.

 

[KillerDraco]

Sorry not trying to start an argument.

I was stating that I was thinking of Butterfree for the same reasons you mentioned with Venomoth.

From testing on Showdown Baton Pass is predictable and if Sleep Powder misses there is rarely a 2nd chance.

...Okay, you're gonna have to stop right there, because without Baton Pass "the same reasons" really aren't present. Period.

Quiver Dancer with Sleep Powder and Baton Pass could really make something like Nidoking a complete monster to deal with. I could see Magneton and Starmie also being scary recipients

Case in point. No one's saying Venomoth is gonna be sweeping teams with Quiver Dance (although if the opportunity presents itself it certainly could), just that if it passes it to the appropriate recipient it can be nigh GG.

And it's not a huge deal if Baton Pass is predictable because it can be an outright win condition. Plus, with Butterfree's meager speed, poor bulk, and poor defensive typing, it rarely gets a first chance, let alone a second.

 

[Psynergy]

I have seen people bring up Butterfree and while I can see the boosted accuracy of Sleep Powder being advantageous, the worse typing and stats make it sound harder to pull off in practice. I feel the threat of Baton Passing a Quiver Dance is in Venomoth's favor, especially as a Pokemon that threatens arguably the best win condition in this format. My internet has been too shaky to even consider testing on Showdown lately though I can see myself running a team with Venomoth and Magneton just because Clefable kind of really needs to die.

 

[Theo-92]

Very likely to play this as it seems like a good distraction from SR'ing for the time being.

Can't seem to find anything on it, or more likely it's staring me right in the face, but is species clause in effect for this? I wouldn't mind being able to run both Alakazam and Kadabra.

 

[BugCatcher6]

...Okay, you're gonna have to stop right there, because without Baton Pass "the same reasons" really aren't present. Period.



Case in point. No one's saying Venomoth is gonna be sweeping teams with Quiver Dance (although if the opportunity presents itself it certainly could), just that if it passes it to the appropriate recipient it can be nigh GG.

And it's not a huge deal if Baton Pass is predictable because it can be an outright win condition. Plus, with Butterfree's meager speed, poor bulk, and poor defensive typing, it rarely gets a first chance, let alone a second.

Again, I was just saying I was thinking of Butterfree.

I am sorry it took away from the Venomoth conversation. I in no way said that Venomoth was wrong, which it seems to me that the replies are a little defensive.

Again I apologize for mentioning Butterfree and will stay out of the conversation.

Good luck to everyone in the event.

 

[jstinftw!]

I have seen people bring up Butterfree and while I can see the boosted accuracy of Sleep Powder being advantageous, the worse typing and stats make it sound harder to pull off in practice. I feel the threat of Baton Passing a Quiver Dance is in Venomoth's favor, especially as a Pokemon that threatens arguably the best win condition in this format. My internet has been too shaky to even consider testing on Showdown lately though I can see myself running a team with Venomoth and Magneton just because Clefable kind of really needs to die.

Yeah. I agree here because, while it's true Venemoth may be super predictable, that sort of makes it easier to play. If you know your opponent knows what you're going to do, it helps you figure out their strategy, so you can work around it. This can help you more easily get into a situation where your Venemoth QDing + BPing into something basically wins the game.


And Clefable. Ugh. You adorable monster, you. Who knew this adorable and sweet fluff of a thing would become a format's worst nightmare?

Very likely to play this as it seems like a good distraction from SR'ing for the time being.

Can't seem to find anything on it, or more likely it's staring me right in the face, but is species clause in effect for this? I wouldn't mind being able to run both Alakazam and Kadabra.

Pretty sure you could run both Alakazam and Kadabra, but I'm just wondering, like... Why? hahaha No Item Clause makes it so that eviolite and other items aren't allowed, so I don't see how you'd run both? Especially because of the redundancy that could bring to your team. Which is why I ask, cos I don't get it. I'd love to know.

Again, I was just saying I was thinking of Butterfree.

I am sorry it took away from the Venomoth conversation. I in no way said that Venomoth was wrong, which it seems to me that the replies are a little defensive.

Again I apologize for mentioning Butterfree and will stay out of the conversation.

Good luck to everyone in the event.

Hahahah no worries. Just as you were just thinking of Butterfree, they were just thinking of trying to help you out. You seemed a bit confused (I'm sure you just worded it wrongly), and they only meant to help. No need to get defensive or anything.


What do you guys think about Trick Room as a strategy in this format? With so many Pokémon trying to hit certain speed tiers to outspeed specific threats, I'd love to get some feedback on how Trick Room would work. DD Dragonite/Gyarados no longer becomes as big of a problem if you have rocks up and something to OHKO with, and Pokémon like Aerodactyl and Jolteon are significantly neutered. Even Alakazam and Gengar suddenly become much easier to deal with when you're not building to outspeed them. The only problem comes in the form of actually setting Trick Room up. You'd probably need 2 TR setters, right?

 

[Karxrida]

Trick Room has always been a borderline-gimmick in Singles, so I'm not sure how it'd work out. Besides, there are maybe 2 Pokemon that can set and immediately abuse it effectively (Slowbro and Exeggutor).

 

[Psynergy]

I'd wonder if Slowbro might be able to viably pull off an OTR set though it probably has better things to do anyway, namely Thunder Waving stuff because Thunder Wave is broken. If this was 3v3 then Trick Room might have more viability but yeah, in a 6v6 like this I don't see Trick Room working out much. I guess it could be usable as an emergency way to turn the Gyarados/Dragonite matchup in your favor though it sounds riskier than it would be worth.

 

[Aduro]

So after playing a few battles a couple of things seem broken with the lack of stall: setup sweepers and clefable. Either I demolish with shell smash cloyster or ddance dragonite, or I sit behind a clefairy and watch it set up. The big problem is figuring out if they're unaware or magic guard so rocks might be surprisingly important. Also clear smog gengar could be a dark horse. I can't help but think just one webs setter would be nice too.

 

[Karxrida]

Non-stall teams can stop setup sweepers fine (Balance is a thing) in normal Singles, it's just the lack of items, any good priority users non named Dragonite, and emergency sweeper insurance like Prankster Thundurus make them super powerful.

 

[koosbane]

So after playing a few battles a couple of things seem broken with the lack of stall: setup sweepers and clefable. Either I demolish with shell smash cloyster or ddance dragonite, or I sit behind a clefairy and watch it set up. The big problem is figuring out if they're unaware or magic guard so rocks might be surprisingly important. Also clear smog gengar could be a dark horse. I can't help but think just one webs setter would be nice too.

So what kind of things would you suggest for this when it hits USA?