The morality of RNG

[Sapphiredragon929]

It is cheating - you're giving yourself an advantage over a player that has no idea (unless (s)he participates in RNG too). That player put a lot more effort into raising her/his pokemon only to be swept out by someone that just abused a system that was never meant to come to terms |:

MY ABSOL PWNS BECAUSE IT'S RNG'D!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT CAN DO ALL OF THESE THINGS!!!1!!! IT'S TOTALLY LEGAL TOO EVEN THOUGH IT'S PERFECT BECAUSE I ABUSED THE SYSTEM!!!

Yeah. Really. And it's annoying on how these people play up their pokemon and say it was the hardest thing ever even though they really didn't do anything except took advantage of coding. |: Argh.

I mean the coding was made for a reason. The possibilities of getting pokemon with perfect IV's is 1/1,073,741,824 The game was coded to have the chances for it to be borderline impossible. |: You're exploiting coding for your own personal gain and therefore manipulating the odds that were meant to be placed in there by GameFreak. :/

 

[Human Being]

It is cheating - you're giving yourself an advantage over a player that has no idea (unless (s)he participates in RNG too). That player put a lot more effort into raising her/his pokemon only to be swept out by someone that just abused a system that was never meant to come to terms |:

MY ABSOL PWNS BECAUSE IT'S RNG'D!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT CAN DO ALL OF THESE THINGS!!!1!!! IT'S TOTALLY LEGAL TOO EVEN THOUGH IT'S PERFECT BECAUSE I ABUSED THE SYSTEM!!!

Yeah. Really. And it's annoying on how these people play up their pokemon and say it was the hardest thing ever even though they really didn't do anything except took advantage of coding. |: Argh.

I mean the coding was made for a reason. The possibilities of getting pokemon with perfect IV's is 1/1,073,741,824 The game was coded to have the chances for it to be borderline impossible. |: You're exploiting coding for your own personal gain and therefore manipulating the odds that were meant to be placed in there by GameFreak. :/

If you go with an IV bred and EV'ed team against someone completely random who has no idea what those things even are would that be fair according to how you are putting it? Of course not. But do you EV train your pokemon? Do you try to IV breed your pokemon? Do you give them to most competitive moveset you can or just teach them every HM they can learn?

Also RNG Abuse was discovered the same exact way EVs and IVs were discovered. Debugging. Just a different kind of debugging. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no real difference between the three things. You can not say one isn't legit because it wasn't clear that it existed at first, because honestly none were and were ONLY discovered due to debugging. Also it is not as easy as it seems. For RNG'ing Event Pokemon whose natures are not set it is very difficult, I spent over 12 hours trying to RNG a perfect Hasty Deoxys from a legit wondercard.

On Emerald to breed flawless shinies it takes an extreme amount of time. For someone it took over 30 hours just to breed one. On FRLG it is almost impossible for most people to RNG on.

A lot of the time when it came to RNG Abuse when I tried to learn it I had no clue what I was doing, I spent probably over five hours just trying to calibrate and what not. I didn't know if I hit my frame or not when I was breeding for flawless IVs and the first pokemon I got I thought was flawless, then later found out it wasn't and had to redo everything. Some times it takes a few hours just to get ONE pokemon.

If you include the flawless shiny captures that is very, very impressive as they need to RNG the ID/SID of it as well, the work put into it is much more than EV Training, yet EV training does something similar. You just need to understand the mechanics. I went through my entire HGSS cartridge twice just to be able to find out my SID. I caught the Red Gyarados in the beginning. I might restart my Diamond Cartridge just to RNG an ID/SID combination. So imagine how much time and effort was put into those things. If I do restart my Diamond cartridge I would have just thrown away over 100 HOURS just to do what, get some shinies and flawless pokemon. If someone does that do you think that they would deserve it or not? In my opinion of course they will, there is absolutely no REASON why they shouldn't. For the people who do that I have nothing BUT the utmost respect for, even those who do these things on ROMs.

 

[randomspot555]

It is cheating - you're giving yourself an advantage over a player that has no idea (unless (s)he participates in RNG too).

The same can be said about IVs and EVs or the physical/special split or any of the other things that aren't explictly explained in the game.

That player put a lot more effort into raising her/his pokemon

If I breed 1,000 eggs or 20 eggs ultimately doesn't matter. You don't get points for how much "effort" you put into raising a Pokemon. You only win a battle or you lose a battle.

I mean the coding was made for a reason. The possibilities of getting pokemon with perfect IV's is 1/1,073,741,824 The game was coded to have the chances for it to be borderline impossible. |: You're exploiting coding for your own personal gain and therefore manipulating the odds that were meant to be placed in there by GameFreak. :/

First, you can't prove Game Freak's intentions.

Second, a lot of stuff is "borderline impossible".

There's also some misconception that RNG is just as easy as hacking. It takes a lot of effort to capture an RNGed Pokemon (it can still run away or whatever, or you might screw up the seed, etc...) and they still have to train it as far as effort values, TMs/HMs/level up moves, etc... and develop a strategy and all that jazz.

This is only taking away from the part of grinding and running up and down Solaceon Town. That's it. ANY idiot can run and up down Solaceon Town and hatch eggs. It's not complicated, it's barely "effort".

 

[Human Being]

This is only taking away from the part of grinding and running up and down Solaceon Town. That's it. ANY idiot can run and up down Solaceon Town and hatch eggs. It's not complicated, it's barely "effort".

Especially on an Emulator of some kind. You can probably make it do it on its own. Using a ROM and an Emulator it shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Sprintking]

You may not like what they're doing, but it's nothing more than manipulating the mechanics of the game in their favor, and not hacking. It may be immoral, but not illegal.

 

[mattj]

Yeah, I'm sure I'll get banned for this one but...

Kids.

It's just a game.

Calm down.

If you take the time to learn to RNG, props to you. If you don't. That's your loss. The information is out there, and Mingot made the RNG reporter free to download.

And don't give me this, "I tried and I couldn't get it" B.S. Try harder. Just because you didn't have the patience to learn to do it right doesn't make everyone else a "cheater" for having the patience. Same thing goes for IV Breeding, EVing and everything else.

 

[randomspot555]

You may not like what they're doing, but it's nothing more than manipulating the mechanics of the game in their favor, and not hacking. It may be immoral, but not illegal.

It isn't "immoral". You are not killing anyone or harming anyone else by using Pokemon game mechanics. Sure, it gives you an advantage in battle (and arguably, an advantage in trading, but I imagine most people who RNG don't do a lot of for-profit trading). But it's no more "cheating" than EV training is cheating or using an Everstone/Power items while breeding is "cheating."

 

[Orion-Sama]

First, lol morality in videogames.

That aside, RNG abuse is cheating. The difference with every other game mechanic is that it doesn't even has a vague statement given by NPCs or notification of its existence through official sources (Guides, Word of God). That NPCs don't give you a detailed explanation of what Natures, EVs or IVs do is irrelevant. They still mention them in one way or another. We also have the Effort Ribbon, the IV guy and the Hidden Power guy, which means the developers ackonwledge these and give you leads in what they are, regardless of vagueness.

As for the mechanics that aren't mentioned in-game... they're bound to be announced one way or another. Most likely through official guides or official blogs. The Masuda Method for Shiny breeding was expressed though Masuda's blog. I wouldn't be surprised if Nature Breeding and IV Breeding had a similar reveal, but as we first learned about it through people who hack into the game's source code, we're unaware of it.

Does RNG have one or the other? Not at all lol. I didn't see any NPC say "You know that if you use certain Pokétch Apps a lot, something awesome might happen? Try it out!" And even less of a chance for official sources to acknowledge something that only exists for the purpose of making the game work, and that wasn't meant to be abused.

It's amusing how people try to defend themselves regarding RNG...

 

[Human Being]

First, lol morality in videogames.

That aside, RNG abuse is cheating. The difference with every other game mechanic is that it doesn't even has a vague statement given by NPCs or notification of its existence through official sources (Guides, Word of God). That NPCs don't give you a detailed explanation of what Natures, EVs or IVs do is irrelevant. They still mention them in one way or another. We also have the Effort Ribbon, the IV guy and the Hidden Power guy, which means the developers ackonwledge these and give you leads in what they are, regardless of vagueness.

As for the mechanics that aren't mentioned in-game... they're bound to be announced one way or another. Most likely through official guides or official blogs. The Masuda Method for Shiny breeding was expressed though Masuda's blog. I wouldn't be surprised if Nature Breeding and IV Breeding had a similar reveal, but as we first learned about it through people who hack into the game's source code, we're unaware of it.

Does RNG have one or the other? Not at all lol. I didn't see any NPC say "You know that if you use certain Pokétch Apps a lot, something awesome might happen? Try it out!" And even less of a chance for official sources to ackonwledge something that only exists for the purpose of making the game work, and that wasn't meant to be abused.

It's amusing how people try to defend themselves regarding RNG...

First of all, Masuda only hinted at it.
EVs were discovered before the person who told you they were maxed out came to be and even then most people wouldn't understand how it worked unless they debugged it.

IVs were similar, you can not say the person who tells you which stat has the highest IV and the general idea about what that IV is something that most people would understand without debugging.

Okay, they are vague, but no one will understand what it is talking about even though it is vague, it does not matter! People only really discovered and found out about them due to debugging, the same method used to discover RNG Abuse! They are separate things, but the same concept has always been used.

Also it is difficult for them to acknowledge it, how can you say "Oh, the game isn't really random at all, just try to discover how it isn't random and you'll get at it eventually." No, you can't just say that, it is simply stating the obvious in a different manner.

Another thing is about the Secret ID. Well it is something determined by a cheating device isn't it? No, you can discover it without a cheating device, there is no mention of it though. Well they can't really mention it either, how would they be able to hint at that, as it is supposed to be "Secret" as you might want to call it. Well it isn't really a secret if people already know everything is random and different for everyone's game and they can't really state the obvious and by doing so not be vague. So by trying to find out how the game isn't random people stumble upon this and use it to get a better understanding about how the game works. Nothing more, nothing less.

In every game, people try getting an idea about how the game itself works. What the mechanics are and how do they work. Only difference is that some people actually went beyond what most people would do to do this. One reason why people like Mingot deserve credit for doing something amazing.

Also one more thing, even if you are not intentionally doing so you are abusing the RNG in everything you do in pokemon. It does not matter whether or not it was intentional, it literally is the game and there are many different aspects of it, there are multiple aspects for the attack a wild pokemon uses along as with the damage it does, it really isn't random, it is the RNG which determines it. Whether you like it or not you are abusing the RNG in some way, even if your intentions are not to, it is only when you realize you are and want to get a more positive experience from it you really are able to use the RNG.

 

[Sapphiredragon929]

Spoiler: lolkazamisthislong

If you go with an IV bred and EV'ed team against someone completely random who has no idea what those things even are would that be fair according to how you are putting it? Of course not. But do you EV train your pokemon? Do you try to IV breed your pokemon? Do you give them to most competitive moveset you can or just teach them every HM they can learn?

You have a great point- I'll give you that. But RNG Abuse (lol note the name?) is nothing more than exploiting coding for ones own personal game. It takes away any integrity whatsoever. Shiny pokemon were meant to be rare, pokemon with perfect ID's were meant to be a true ***** to get and something that would be practically impossible.

Also RNG Abuse was discovered the same exact way EVs and IVs were discovered. Debugging. Just a different kind of debugging. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no real difference between the three things. You can not say one isn't legit because it wasn't clear that it existed at first, because honestly none were and were ONLY discovered due to debugging. Also it is not as easy as it seems. For RNG'ing Event Pokemon whose natures are not set it is very difficult, I spent over 12 hours trying to RNG a perfect Hasty Deoxys from a legit wondercard.

....You're kidding me right? How the hell is something that gives you a perfect pokemon that you wouldn't have a normal chance of a cold day in hell under any other circumstance similar to something all pokemon have? Are you kidding me? EV's and IV's are completely different from RNG.

Oh, and I'm so sorry for your loss. 12 hours. >_>;

On Emerald to breed flawless shinies it takes an extreme amount of time. For someone it took over 30 hours just to breed one. On FRLG it is almost impossible for most people to RNG on.

Am I supposed to donate money to a charity or something? these poor deprived people. Unable to RNG a shiny "legit" 31 IV pokemon. The horror.

A lot of the time when it came to RNG Abuse when I tried to learn it I had no clue what I was doing, I spent probably over five hours just trying to calibrate and what not. I didn't know if I hit my frame or not when I was breeding for flawless IVs and the first pokemon I got I thought was flawless, then later found out it wasn't and had to redo everything. Some times it takes a few hours just to get ONE pokemon.

I'm so sorry for your loss? ?_? All you're doing is just whining over abusing something that was not to be exploited ever. Sorry. I don't have any sympathy :/

If you include the flawless shiny captures that is very, very impressive as they need to RNG the ID/SID of it as well, the work put into it is much more than EV Training, yet EV training does something similar.

I EV train all the time. Don't even argue that it's even similar to RNG. It's totally not. |: and isn't a secret ID meant to be secret anyways? Lol.

You just need to understand the mechanics. I went through my entire HGSS cartridge twice just to be able to find out my SID. I caught the Red Gyarados in the beginning. I might restart my Diamond Cartridge just to RNG an ID/SID combination. So imagine how much time and effort was put into those things.

Read my above statement, you're abusing coding in the game that was never meant to be discovered anyway. And if you want to restart your Diamond Cartage for ~*~*~*~*~perfect shiny happy pokemon~*~*~*~*~ then be my guest. But don't whine about it. A secret ID is (obviously!) meant to be secret, and you can't obtain it without hacking (correct me if I am wrong on this).

If I do restart my Diamond cartridge I would have just thrown away over 100 HOURS just to do what, get some shinies and flawless pokemon. If someone does that do you think that they would deserve it or not? In my opinion of course they will, there is absolutely no REASON why they shouldn't.

Yeah because you totally tossed other pokemon aside for stronger pokemon that are totally alternate colored, you like, totally deserve it? Oh wait. I'm having problems with the method - not what you're sacrificing for. This is exploitation on a coding system that wasn't even made to be discovered. Debugging? Correct me if I'm wrong but were these games meant to be debugged by a third party? Of course not.

The same can be said about IVs and EVs or the physical/special split or any of the other things that aren't explictly explained in the game.

Those things are at least defined and hinted at in the games. This isn't a game mechanic.

If I breed 1,000 eggs or 20 eggs ultimately doesn't matter. You don't get points for how much "effort" you put into raising a Pokemon. You only win a battle or you lose a battle.

I guess? The method I disagree with. It's not only lacking in integrity in the game itself but it's exploitation coding that was not made to be discovered.

First, you can't prove Game Freak's intentions.

If they didn't announce it in a guide or hint at it in a game, chances are they'd never want this to leak. It seems pretty logical so stop being so arrogant.

Second, a lot of stuff is "borderline impossible".

Getting Shiny pokemon and perfect IV's were meant to be ran into by chance - not by manipulating coding.

There's also some misconception that RNG is just as easy as hacking. It takes a lot of effort to capture an RNGed Pokemon (it can still run away or whatever, or you might screw up the seed, etc...) and they still have to train it as far as effort values, TMs/HMs/level up moves, etc... and develop a strategy and all that jazz.

Oh baaaw! I'm disagreeing with the method anyways Lol. I know what it is I'm only talking about the integrity that's lost here.

This is only taking away from the part of grinding and running up and down Solaceon Town. That's it. ANY idiot can run and up down Solaceon Town and hatch eggs. It's not complicated, it's barely "effort".

So manipulating coding that gives perfect IV's that otherwise have a little chance of being perfect (that's their design) or getting a shiny pokemon (Which by normal standards are exceedingly rare) that otherwise are a pain to get unless you chain or use the masuda method are somehow just as similar as getting them through other methods? That's a bunch of BS.

 

[mattj]

Yeah, I'm sure I'll eventually get banned for this but...

RNG is mentioned throughout the game and in guides as vaguely as anything else. For example, my paperback Platinum guide suggests catching and comparing the stats of any species of pokemon in order to get the best one possible. As vague as it is, that's a reference to how the game Randomly Generates IVs/Nature/etc.

Does it mention how the Journal will advance the RNG by 2 in D/P/Pt? No. But the lady that gives the Effort Badge, doesn't mention that Gengars give out 3SAtk EVs either. And the IV dude doesn't tell you how high your IV is, he just gives a vague statement.

Give it up.

 

[ijea4444]

Like i said before, GF could have easily made RNGing impossible and all the markers used to read it, hidden. They didn't hide them, they kept them out in the open. Even in HGSS after RNG was already known, they still decided to keep all the features out in the open.

GF doesn't care if you do it, why should we.

 

[randomspot555]

That aside, RNG abuse is cheating. The difference with every other game mechanic is that it doesn't even has a vague statement given by NPCs or notification of its existence through official sources (Guides, Word of God). That NPCs don't give you a detailed explanation of what Natures, EVs or IVs do is irrelevant. They still mention them in one way or another. We also have the Effort Ribbon, the IV guy and the Hidden Power guy, which means the developers ackonwledge these and give you leads in what they are, regardless of vagueness.

No more cheating than any other mechanic.

First off, the official guides are pretty much trash. The "base stat" substitution is like a base stat rating. Someone tried telling me that Scyther has better attack than Scizor because of the rating in the guide from HG/SS. Even though they're "official", they're little more than a hand held Poke dex and a walk through with pictures.

Second, game mechanics are only mentioned, vaguely, in the games, and aren't explained. Sure, the IV guy tells you which IV is your highest, but he doesn't explain hwo IVs are inherited, or even the number. The Hidden Power guy tells you your HP type, but doesn't tell you Hidden Power's base power can vary and doesn't tell you how type/power is determined. And so on.

Basically, the hints are meaningless unless you actually know what's going on. Some 6 year old getting the Effort Ribbon doesn't think "Well, I must have all 512 Effort value points assigned". They just think they raised their Pokemon well.

As for Masuda, he just hints, vaguely, at it. It took game researchers, probably the same who discovered the RNG stuff, to tell us the probabilities and all that fun stuff.

It's amusing how people try to defend themselves regarding RNG...

I don't RNG and probably never will. But I don't pretend that it's similar to Pokemon steroids. It's just another game mechanic

Shiny pokemon were meant to be rare,

With shiny event Pokemon (the pre-set kind), and Pokefinder or whatever it's called + Masuda Method, they've become increasingly less rare with each generation. Introduce Emerald and D/P GTS cloning and "rarity" in Pokemon is completely laughable.

Like i said before, GF could have easily made RNGing impossible and all the markers used to read it, hidden. They didn't hide them, they kept them out in the open. Even in HGSS after RNG was already known, they still decided to keep all the features out in the open.

GF doesn't care if you do it, why should we.

I doubt Game Freak cares, or even knows, what non-Japanese fan sites do or research.

 

[Orion-Sama]

First of all, Masuda only hinted at it.

Same difference. He still acknowledged its existence.

EVs were discovered before the person who told you they were maxed out came to be and even then most people wouldn't understand how it worked unless they debugged it.

It was useless to know EVs existed before Ruby and Sapphire because all you had to do is feed Vitamins, keep on battling even after Level 100, and deposit Pokémon in the PC if at Level 100. Even I caught up on that in Blue, only following the in-game and manual explanations of what Vitamin Items did, and paying attention to how their Stats increased whenever I defeated the Elite Four and deposited them. Casual discovery, it still counts. I didn't need an in-depth explanation to figure it out.

RS established the EV Cap, and that's the first games that had the Effort Ribbon too. This one is harder to figure out, and yes, you'd need a guide to get the whole hang of it. However, the game acknowledges this. It doesn't has to explain you how it works. On the other hand, no game acknowledges you can do crap to manipulate an internal coding function that makes the game work.

IVs were similar, you can not say the person who tells you which stat has the highest IV and the general idea about what that IV is something that most people would understand without debugging.

I didn't say that. What I said is that the game acknowledges these, and thus, they're rightfully game mechanics. RNG isn't. It's an internal routine to help the game execute the needed calculations.

Okay, they are vague, but no one will understand what it is talking about even though it is vague, it does not matter! People only really discovered and found out about them due to debugging, the same method used to discover RNG Abuse! They are separate things, but the same concept has always been used.

So?

The main point here is that the game told us about IVs, and even hinted at us regarding them as the latter games came out. On the other hand, it's never acknowledged its own random nature, not even as a joke. No game does that, and it's amusing how people think we were supposed to know about this and abuse it at our leisure.

Also it is difficult for them to acknowledge it, how can you say "Oh, the game isn't really random at all, just try to discover how it isn't random and you'll get at it eventually." No, you can't just say that, it is simply stating the obvious in a different manner.

Thanks for proving my point above. This means RNG abuse isn't official, or meant to be done, or, pffft, a game mechanic.

Another thing is about the Secret ID. Well it is something determined by a cheating device isn't it? No, you can discover it without a cheating device, there is no mention of it though. Well they can't really mention it either, how would they be able to hint at that, as it is supposed to be "Secret" as you might want to call it. Well it isn't really a secret if people already know everything is random and different for everyone's game and they can't really state the obvious and by doing so not be vague. So by trying to find out how the game isn't random people stumble upon this and use it to get a better understanding about how the game works. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not against that in any way. What amuses me is how people go and defend RNG abuse "tactics" as if it was actually put there intentionally, when it wasn't.

Until the games, official guides or developers hint at RNG abuse in one way or another, it wasn't meant to be used this way. Like the RNG, the secret ID is something the developers put in the game to have an extra flag for various purposes. Anyone playing the game has no need whatsoever to know it exists, let alone know what it is, and it obviously wouldn't be acknowledged, exactly like RNG.

In every game, people try getting an idea about how the game itself works. What the mechanics are and how do they work. Only difference is that some people actually went beyond what most people would do to do this. One reason why people like Mingot deserve credit for doing something amazing.

That's fine and dandy with me. Just don't go preaching you play fairly and don't cheat, because you are cheating by manipulating the RNG.

Also one more thing, even if you are not intentionally doing so you are abusing the RNG in everything you do in pokemon. It does not matter whether or not it was intentional, it literally is the game and there are many different aspects of it, there are multiple aspects for the attack a wild pokemon uses along as with the damage it does, it really isn't random, it is the RNG which determines it. Whether you like it or not you are abusing the RNG in some way, even if your intentions are not to, it is only when you realize you are and want to get a more positive experience from it you really are able to use the RNG.

Nice try to sink the truth with logical banter. What it comes down to is that RNG has this purpose you described, as opposed to use convoluted routines to manipulate its results. It exists to randomize the game wherever it's needed. It doesn't exists to be manipulated or abused. And it definitely isn't a game mechanic. That's just beyond ridiculous.

 

[mattj]

In this thread:

A few people who haven't been able to figure out how to RNG abuse criticize those who took the time and had the patience to learn how to do it.

Meanwhile, they have no problem following online guides that tell them which pokemon gives which EVs and how many.

where in the game does it say that Machamp gives 3 Attack EVs? Or that you're wasting your time after you get 252 EVs in any one stat? Or that saving before picking up an egg can give you the same nature/etc but different IVs? Oh...I'm sorry... that's right...​

 

[Human Being]

RNG is mentioned throughout the game and in guides as vaguely as anything else. For example, my paperback Platinum guide suggests catching and comparing the stats of any species of pokemon in order to get the best one possible. As vague as it is, that's a reference to how the game Randomly Generates IVs/Nature/etc.

Does it mention how the Journal will advance the RNG by 2 in D/P/Pt? No. But the lady that gives the Effort Badge, doesn't mention that Gengars give out 3SAtk EVs either. And the IV dude doesn't tell you how high your IV is, he just gives a vague statement.

Give it up.

In this thread:

A few people who haven't been able to figure out how to RNG abuse criticize those who took the time and had the patience to learn how to do it.

Meanwhile, they have no problem following online guides that tell them which pokemon gives which EVs and how many.

where in the game does it say that Machamp gives 3 Attack EVs? Or that you're wasting your time after you get 252 EVs in any one stat? Or that saving before picking up an egg can give you the same nature/etc but different IVs? Oh...I'm sorry... that's right...​

So true, I know you on Smogon (I am Human on it). If there is anything mentioning how there is a best and you could get it then of course people will try to get it. Personally I respect you a lot for how you RNG'ed so many pokemon, only thing I somewhat dislike, yet I do like at the same time for obvious reasons, is how you made your pokemon fully redis there on Smogon.

Also for anyone saying the Masuda Method is legit and RNG Abuse isn't look at how the Masuda Method was really discovered.

PID Generation For Eggs using the IRNG

Each call to the IRNG returns a single 32-bit value, which is used in its entirety to create the PID of the egg. The IRNG is called when an egg is produced, and the Day-Care Man begins holding an egg.

When breeding with two parents from games with different languages (Japanese and US Platinum are examples of different regions) there is a slight modification to the algorithm. When an initial PID is generated by the IRNG the game checks to see if it generates a shiny, and if not the following formula is applied:

PID = PID * 0x6c078965 (Hexadecimal) + 1

Only the first 32 bits of this new PID are kept, so if you are calculating this yourself simply discard any digits higher than the 8th position (in Hexadecimal).

This is repeated a maximum of three times. Each time the multiplication is applied to the PID a check is made to see if it will generate a shiny egg. If so, no further multiplications and are performed and the egg is assigned this PID. This gives us four tries for a shiny Pokémon, increasing our overall odds from 1:8196 to 1:2048.

This is a direct quote from Smogon, the All Generation PRNG Help / Information thread there. This is explaining how the Masuda Method itself was discovered. It was discovered in the same EXACT way that RNG Abuse was discovered. Without this people wouldn't have understood the Masuda Method one bit. RNG Abuse has done nothing but help competitive pokemon and breeding shinies.

RNG Abuse has not negatively impacted the game one bit, there are less hackers because of it to begin with, there are better pokemon out there to go along with it, many things were discovered, and many more things.

I will stop posting on this thread now as if you do not understand now you probably will not understand.

 

[Dragoon952]

Not quite.


http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/6...e-Physics-Bridges-And-More.html#ixzz0udI4o6UP

EVs and IVs weren't just put into the game to make each individual Pokémon more diverse, but also to give the games an extra layer of depth for the more competitive players to enjoy.
Another thing I'd like to note about developer's intent. In the original Street Fighter game, combos were an accident. Combos were never intended by the developers. However, they saw how the fans loved those combos so they decided to add them to Street Fighter II. Even if something wasn't intended, that doesn't mean the developers don't want you to use it.

Thanks for the info. That's very insightful.

Still, let me just put it this way. If the competitive standard now, because of RNG, is flawless IVs, intended or not, then there is no reason for IVs at all. Giving each pokemon a flat, standard stat in all categories accomplishes the same thing without any of the hassle of huge amounts of time IV breeding or RNGing. So why have IVs at all? Why even add them?

EVs/natures seem different because they make the same pokemon able to do many different jobs and add layers of customization. Flawless IVs does nothing but make 31 the standard and, essentially, defeating their purpose altogether.

 

[randomspot555]

Still, let me just put it this way. If the competitive standard now, because of RNG, is flawless IVs, intended or not, then there is no reason for IVs at all. Giving each pokemon a flat, standard stat in all categories accomplishes the same thing without any of the hassle of huge amounts of time IV breeding or RNGing. So why have IVs at all? Why even add them?

We're gamers, not game designers. We don't get to choose what mechanics are and aren't featured in games.

And who says you HAVE to RNG? No one. I'd wager that despite RNG, 95% of battling at Smogon still happens on their Shoddy Battle server. Just like the people who EV train are the minority compared to the millions who probably don't even know what Effort Values are, those who use the RNG to their advantage are in even more of a minority.

 

[Sapphiredragon929]

In this thread:

A few people who haven't been able to figure out how to RNG abuse criticize those who took the time and had the patience to learn how to do it.

Meanwhile, they have no problem following online guides that tell them which pokemon gives which EVs and how many.

where in the game does it say that Machamp gives 3 Attack EVs? Or that you're wasting your time after you get 252 EVs in any one stat? Or that saving before picking up an egg can give you the same nature/etc but different IVs? Oh...I'm sorry... that's right...​

I suggest you shut up. I have no intention to RNG but that does not mean I am incompetent at it. My reasons are just the integrity at the game, I've been a loyal player since GSC and when it came down to shinies/IV's I did it the even harder way. So I'd prefer it if you just didn't throw around reasoning for why I am debating. It makes both parties look stupid, sweetheart.

There's a difference between EV training and RNG anyways. It's exploitation and abuse of coding. :x I don't think I can explain it any more simpler.

EV training is hinted at in a guide anyways - and even thoroughly (yet in a somewhat complex manner) explained in another guide I own. RNG is serious exploitation on the coding.

With shiny event Pokemon (the pre-set kind), and Pokefinder or whatever it's called + Masuda Method, they've become increasingly less rare with each generation. Introduce Emerald and D/P GTS cloning and "rarity" in Pokemon is completely laughable.

The Masuda Method halves your chances to about one/4,200 (correct me if I'm wrong on this) that's no easy guarantee. Few shiny event pokemon have been release. And the pokefinder takes patience - not exploitation in order to obtain. They're still rare - albeit not their former status. The point is though; that they are meant to be .... uncommon at the very least. Manipulated Coding (note: NOT game mechanic) isn't honest in the least :x

 

[bobandbill]

Hey guys I'm sensing a level of unease in here between others so just a warning to keep arguments out of here before it happens. Of course if you do argue then thread's closed and people get infracted and all that jazz, so keep that in mind. ;p

Now, carry on.