The morality of RNG

[randomspot555]

There's a difference between EV training and RNG anyways. It's exploitation and abuse of coding. :x I don't think I can explain it any more simpler.

There's no "abuse of coding." The coding of the game not only isn't being changed, it can't be changed. To the best of my knowledge, it's ROM (read only memory)

EV training is hinted at in a guide anyways - and even thoroughly (yet in a somewhat complex manner) explained in another guide I own. RNG is serious exploitation on the coding.

Okay, maybe in more recent guides. But it still was known about since Gen I, where I'm fairly certain few, if any, hints were given about anything.

The Masuda Method halves your chances to about one/4,200 (correct me if I'm wrong on this) that's no easy guarantee.

Again, how did we find out that number?

Few shiny event pokemon have been release.

More than enough to be relatively common in trading circles. Almost all of them, save the R/S Zigzagoons , are 4th gen events.

And the pokefinder takes patience - not exploitation in order to obtain. They're still rare - albeit not their former status. The point is though; that they are meant to be .... uncommon at the very least.

If you want to not trade with anyone and act like thousands or millions of shiny Pokemon exist, that's your right. Just saying that nowadays, rarity in Pokemon (especially in broad terms such as "shiny" or "species") is somewhat of a joke.

 

[Magcargo96]

I never understand it, but I think that RNG abuse for Shiny's is a little bit lame. Shiny's are meant to be special IMO!
I don't think that RNG abuse for IV's is wrong, because it isn't a problem when someone just don't want to spend so many time on IV's.

 

[Asphyxiation]

Honestly, people who gravitate more towards in-game playing only will find RNG a bigger issue than those who gravitate towards competitive Pokemon. Those who play competitively normally want to simply obtain the best quality Pokemon for their teams, meaning there will be little concern over the method used to obtain these Pokemon. They tend to obtain their fun from battling with other people, rather than actually obtaining the pokemon, whereas people who tend to play in-game more often will generally have higher views about shiny pokemon - they haven't merely just traded certain things to obtain them, rather put in some genuine work to do so.
So really, the question can't be "how moral is RNG". It's merely a matter of opinion, normally influenced by the game type the user tends to gravitate towards.

 

[jellsprout]

That aside, RNG abuse is cheating. The difference with every other game mechanic is that it doesn't even has a vague statement given by NPCs or notification of its existence through official sources (Guides, Word of God). That NPCs don't give you a detailed explanation of what Natures, EVs or IVs do is irrelevant. They still mention them in one way or another. We also have the Effort Ribbon, the IV guy and the Hidden Power guy, which means the developers ackonwledge these and give you leads in what they are, regardless of vagueness.

IVs/DVs have never been hinted in any game up till Emerald. So every person trying to get good IVs on a Pokémon before Emerald was released was cheating?
I don't think it has ever been mentioned in any of the games that chaining increases the chances of shiny Pokémon. So every person that obtained a shiny through chaining should just release all of them as it they've been obtained through cheating? Should all the shiny Pokémon obtained through the Masuda method before Masuda mentioned it be marked as illegit? The people couldn't possibly have known about this method at the time, so it was obviously cheating.
Ever since the third gen people have been complaining about IV breeding and EV training, claiming it to be abusing an in-game feature that wasn't meant to be used in this way. But lo and behold! Masuda himself has directly stated that IVs and EVs were purposely put into the game to give it an extra layer of competitive depth for the more advanced players to enjoy. EVs and IVs were put in the game with the purpose of being abused. It is impossible to know what the developers had originally intended or even if they disapprove of the "abuse". It is impossible to know if it even is abuse, so don't go around claiming it as fact.

 

[SHINY CATCHER]

I understand how to RNG but I don't use it. I prefer to find shinies and Breed for good Pokemon the normal way. I have nothing against RNGers as they aren't altering their games through the means of an external device(AR, etc.)

 

[mattj]

I suggest you shut up.

lol best comeback ev-ar!

I have no intention to RNG but that does not mean I am incompetent at it. My reasons are just the integrity at the game, I've been a loyal player since GSC and when it came down to shinies/IV's I did it the even harder way. So I'd prefer it if you just didn't throw around reasoning for why I am debating. It makes both parties look stupid, sweetheart.

That's good for you personally that you did it "the hard way", but it gives you no leverage over someone who didn't. That's "your" game, this is "mine".

There's a difference between EV training and RNG anyways. It's exploitation and abuse of coding. :x I don't think I can explain it any more simpler.

The only one who sees a difference is you.
Both were discovered and clarified before guides or ingame.
1 you can't do.
1 you can.
That's the difference.

RNG is serious exploitation on the coding.

You keep saying that. Please give a reason why it's "serious exploitation of the coding"?
Is getting 252 EVs in one stat "exploitation of the coding"? Where in game or in an official guide does it say you should stop there once you get that many? Or where does it even say that more than the 100 EVs put in by vitamins are possible?
Looks the same to me.

The Masuda Method halves your chances to about one/4,200 (correct me if I'm wrong on this) that's no easy guarantee. Few shiny event pokemon have been release. And the pokefinder takes patience - not exploitation in order to obtain. They're still rare - albeit not their former status. The point is though; that they are meant to be .... uncommon at the very least. Manipulated Coding (note: NOT game mechanic) isn't honest in the least :x

They are uncommon. Because the majority of people like you can't RNG, they're still uncommon. And every time I go to VGC events everyone still "ooooohs" and "aaaaaahs" at my team of shinys. Why? Because they're still rare. I just happen to have put the time and effort in to know how to get them.

And as Bobandbill said, let's keep this civil. No more "shut up, you're stupid" nonsense.

Kthanks​

.

 

[Noheart]

Morality? It's a video game, for crying out loud.

RNG abusing is not cheating. It's "abusing" the game mechanics, but it's there and people are using it to their advantage. There's no external devices involved, so it's not cheating.

 

[The Outcast]

Whats this RNG? Can someone please explain.

 

[Orion-Sama]

IVs/DVs have never been hinted in any game up till Emerald. So every person trying to get good IVs on a Pokémon before Emerald was released was cheating?

Ever talked with every NPC in the game? There's been that one line about "Pokémon of the same species having different capabilities" since Red/Blue. Hell, it was one of Blaine's Gym Quizzes.

Regardless of vagueness, it's been hinted at since the first games.

I don't think it has ever been mentioned in any of the games that chaining increases the chances of shiny Pokémon. So every person that obtained a shiny through chaining should just release all of them as it they've been obtained through cheating? Should all the shiny Pokémon obtained through the Masuda method before Masuda mentioned it be marked as illegit? The people couldn't possibly have known about this method at the time, so it was obviously cheating.

Yes. Lucas/Dawn tell you what the Poké Radar can do. They even give you a small lead in how to get there. I wonder why people expect the game to explain every little mechanic in-depth. lol

Also, way to miss the point. People can cheat for all I care. Hell, I abused the Missingno. glitch in Blue, and the duplication glitches in Gold and Emerald. However, unlike some people here, I don't justify myself and say it isn't cheating just because I'm not using an external cheat device. I know it is cheating and I completely accept it, unlike RNG manipulators, who go as far as calling it a game mechanic in the level of EVs.

Ever since the third gen people have been complaining about IV breeding and EV training, claiming it to be abusing an in-game feature that wasn't meant to be used in this way. But lo and behold! Masuda himself has directly stated that IVs and EVs were purposely put into the game to give it an extra layer of competitive depth for the more advanced players to enjoy. EVs and IVs were put in the game with the purpose of being abused. It is impossible to know what the developers had originally intended or even if they disapprove of the "abuse". It is impossible to know if it even is abuse, so don't go around claiming it as fact.

Until the game makes even a vague reference to RNG manipulation (As I said before, some NPC saying that using certain Pokétch Apps a lot might make awesome things happen), or until the developers come out and vaguely hint at certain actions that can modify the outcome of things... yes, it is abuse.

IVs and EVs are acknowledged in game, and the developers claimed that their inner works were meant to be used in more advanced ways. On the other hand, RNG manipulation is cracking into the game's inner works, finding a way to mold it through in-game means, and abuse it at your leisure to get results. It's a lot like abusing a glitch, but instead, you're going to lengths to trick the game into doing what you want it to do. Oh, and it's never mentioned in any way, shape or form by the game or the official sources.

IVs and EVs are mechanics made to exist within the game world. A Random Number Generator is a system resource to manage random calculations and a lot of other inner works where a randomizer is crucial. It's not the same in any way, shape, or form.

 

[pokemonmasterhustler]

Better than people pokesaving or using AR and Gameshark (if GameSharks even around anymore O.O)

 

[mattj]

Better than people pokesaving or using AR and Gameshark (if GameSharks even around anymore O.O)

LOL Gameshark!@

Finally! Someone from my generation!

It's all about AR and R4s and stuff now (shame shame).

And in all honesty though, it's a good point. You wanna talk about "messing with game code" and stuff THAT'S what ARs do. RNG abuse just uses a computer program that says "hey, you want a shiny timid HP Flying Pikachu? If you set your DS Date and Time to this, and take this many milliseconds to start your game, and do this many journal flips/etc... you'll have a pretty high (though not 100%) chance of catching that rare, flawless pikachu. Now go out and try and fail and try and try till you get it." That's what RNG abuse is.

 

[jellsprout]

Ever talked with every NPC in the game? There's been that one line about "Pokémon of the same species having different capabilities" since Red/Blue. Hell, it was one of Blaine's Gym Quizzes.

...

So they explain there is some sort of random factor involved in the creation of each individual Pokémon. That is your vague reference to the RNG. It isn't a reference to the abuse, but they never mentioned anything about EV or IV abuse either. They never said that if you beat the same Pokémon over and over again some of your stats will grow faster than the others. They never mentioned IV or EV manipulation, just IVs and EVs themselves. Just like they never mentioned RNG manipulation, just the RNG itself.

And I did appear to have forgotten Dawn's/Lucas's mention of the shiny patches for the Pokéradar. My memory of D/P/P is not all that clear compared to the other generations.
Still, the point I was trying to make is that even if the developers haven't directly mentioned a specific feature (yet), it doesn't mean it wasn't intended by them. Unless you took a part in the development yourself, you can't decide which part was intended and which part wasn't.