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The Most Mistreated Ash's Companions

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
That’s true but I did like the tie in for Pancham realizing that he wants to be a performer just like Serena recently coming to that revelation and them following their dreams together. That capture could of happened much earlier and a part of me blames that extended Korrina arc used to introduce mega evolution. I have to finish rewatching XYZ to see what she did after the Master Class but I remember people saying she didn’t contribute much.
  • Serena had a filler episode crossdressing as Ash (fun episode but very irrelevant)
  • Serena throws some snowballs to Ash after a discussion during the Ash-Greninja training arc, helping him to reflect about his actions recently
  • She helped a bit to save Chespie during the Team Flare arc and protecting Mairin and Bonnie (she failed in the last one because them almost died by the """Giant Rock"""
  • XY138, which I think you know
  • She jumped from the top a cliff with Ash and Bonnie to save Clemont during the Ash-Greninja farewell episode, and them were rescued by it.
  • And the kiss
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Clemont was an interesting concept, I liked the idea of an insecure tech genius joining the group to contrast Ash's book dumb but insightful personality. It's just a shame they didn't really develop on it too often outside the Clembot arc. He had some fun moments in the earlier episodes, especially as a contrast to Team Rocket (who hadn't completely run stale yet), but I think ultimately the concentration of formula plus neither Ash or Serena being terrific with fleshing out chemistries with him left him limited.

Sophocles sort of suffered a similar problem, tidbits of fun ideas but nothing developed beyond that, though I think his fun dynamic with the other boys and having Pokemon that had an agency in his niches let him shine more.

Lillie and Goh are kinda similar. I like the idea of giving Ash a logic driven intellectual companion (while at the same not being a TOTAL contrast to him) but it feels like they only get so far as a baseline in terms of giving them an agency around it.
 

k6666

Pikachu Fan
It seems less about the shipping and more about the writting not deeming it worthy stabilishing an unique interaction between Serena and Clemont
I’m sorry if it’s sounds exaggerated but this part that you said that writer not deem to is what made me thing like that because they introduced her having crush on ash and we know amour is one of the aspect and main selling why XY series is quiet popular, you know kalos based on France and and France is town of romance. so maybe they don’t want her to have great chemistry or interaction with other males cause they don’t want overshadow her interaction with ash ( if I remember correctly on those prerelease episode discussion thread some fans kinda took the writer bait and speculate a lot about XY 59 and episode XY 105 due their tittle )

I don’t blame amour tho , I solely blame writer on that because just like you said they didn’t want to write some good interaction between them

We know how great Serena character is and how her develop in the series , but sometimes it’s sad that some fans want her return to follow up how she and ash interact due to the kiss rather her goal progress
 
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Morax

King of heroes
She really shines in episodes that have very little or no amour involvement at all, particularly in episodes like XY53, 60, and 64
"Amour" is literally just serena blushing for a few seconds. If you think that makes the entire episode unwatchable then i don't know what to say.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
"Amour" is literally just serena blushing for a few seconds. If you think that makes the entire episode unwatchable then i don't know what to say.
Her first several episodes were unwatchable thanks to Ash unnecessarily butting in and upstaging her in her own focus episodes while she faded into the background to admire him lmao.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
I’m sorry if it’s sounds exaggerated but this part that you said that writer not deem to is what made me thing like that because they introduced her having crush on ash and we know amour is one of the aspect and main selling why XY series is quiet popular, you know kalos based on France and and France is town of romance. so maybe they don’t want her to have great chemistry or interaction with other males cause they don’t want overshadow her interaction with ash ( if I remember correctly on those prerelease episode discussion thread some fans kinda took the writer bait and speculate a lot about XY 59 and episode XY 105 due their tittle )

I don’t blame amour tho , I solely blame writer on that because just like you said they didn’t want to write some good interaction between them

We know how great Serena character is and how her develop in the series , but sometimes it’s sad that some fans want her return to follow up how she and ash interact due to the kiss rather her goal progress
That's fair, I really think they could've done more.

But who knows if that wasn't just an oversight. Sometimes, I wonder if they really wanted Clemont as part of the group or if he's just there because they needed another boy or they couldn't just let Bonnie walk around with "two strangers" (Clemont left Bonnie to Ash's and Serena's care for training only after some time they travelled together).

That's for the other thread, but honestly, if I was in charge, I'd try to purpose just replacing Clemont midway, right after his gym match. Maybe even replacing him with Sawyer (I'm biased).
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
I like him too but quite honestly, they kind of ran out of things to do with him after the gym match.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Misty had problems but she wasn't the worst or anything. I've seen WAY more insufferable versions of her archetype, then again even pre-JN the same could be said about Iris. I think the reason 'arrogant hot head' types are divisive is because they have flaws that tend to only be tolerable if they get punished and humbled enough times, while, in anime especially, female versions of the trope tend to get off scot free. Misty and Iris thankfully got humbled SOMETIMES though maybe not as often as they could. Ash was generally the bigger butt monkey in their series.

I do think they're underwhelmed a bit by the fact a lot of their key development was offscreen. A bit part of them was how pompous and critical they were of Ash but were pretty flawed trainers themselves. Yeah the show acknowledged and made fun of the hypocrisy but it might have still worked better to show them practising what they preach more often. They don't even show Misty training Psyduck remotely onscreen and I think he was the most glaring weakspot in terms of her training, especially in how often he interrupted her matches and turned it into a game of luck (though she's hardly the only companion who made a habit of 'falling upwards').
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Misty had problems but she wasn't the worst or anything. I've seen WAY more insufferable versions of her archetype, then again even pre-JN the same could be said about Iris. I think the reason 'arrogant hot head' types are divisive is because they have flaws that tend to only be tolerable if they get punished and humbled enough times, while, in anime especially, female versions of the trope tend to get off scot free. Misty and Iris thankfully got humbled SOMETIMES though maybe not as often as they could. Ash was generally the bigger butt monkey in their series.

I do think they're underwhelmed a bit by the fact a lot of their key development was offscreen. A bit part of them was how pompous and critical they were of Ash but were pretty flawed trainers themselves. Yeah the show acknowledged and made fun of the hypocrisy but it might have still worked better to show them practising what they preach more often. They don't even show Misty training Psyduck remotely onscreen and I think he was the most glaring weakspot in terms of her training, especially in how often he interrupted her matches and turned it into a game of luck.
I think the reason why it worked better with misty then iris is coz in OS ash was just as sassy and bratty and would constantly be hot headed and annoy misty too. It was a pretty back and forth relationship compared to how Ash was a bit tamer in BW, only just bickering with her when she made such comments but never making them himself as a playful back and forth.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I think the reason why it worked better with misty then iris is coz in OS ash was just as sassy and bratty and would constantly be hot headed and annoy misty too. It was a pretty back and forth relationship compared to how Ash was a bit tamer in BW, only just bickering with her when she made such comments but never making them himself as a playful back and forth.
Yeah, I can see that, though I suppose the complaints come from the fact that Ash was a brat with ego problems, but so was nearly EVERYONE in Kanto, so Ash sometimes being the only one to be punished and have to learn sometimes felt like a double standard (even if again, Misty didn't always get off scot free, especially in most of her earlier spotlight episodes which often had the same 'pride before fall' element to them).

Iris I think was relatively less of a standoffish jerk about it than Misty, more just a braggart, but yeah the lack of as much chemistry and maybe not getting humbled as often as she should have let it down a bit, it could have worked even with a tamer Ash, but ultimately it relied too much on that catchphrase and got old quicker (I don't know how much of the sarcasm from the OS is just from the dub however). That said Iris did at least get more ongoing development than Misty and didn't fizzle out in activity. She also worked out a lot more of her team's issues onscreen.

Actually Iris and Kiawe might stand as the nearest to fully realised takes on Brock and Misty, being two of the most active companions in the newer series and getting at least consistent smidgeons of involvement throughout their respective series.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Yeah, I can see that, though I suppose the complaints come from the fact that Ash was a brat with ego problems, but so was nearly EVERYONE in Kanto, so Ash sometimes being the only one to be punished and have to learn sometimes felt like a double standard (even if again, Misty didn't always get off scot free, especially in most of her earlier spotlight episodes which often had the same 'pride before fall' element to them).

Iris I think was relatively less of a standoffish jerk about it than Misty, more just a braggart, but yeah the lack of as much chemistry and maybe not getting humbled as often as she should have let it down a bit, it could have worked even with a tamer Ash, but ultimately it relied too much on that catchphrase (I don't know how much of the sarcasm from the OS is just from the dub however). That said Iris did at least get more ongoing development than Misty and didn't fizzle out in activity. She also worked out a lot more of her team's issues onscreen.

Actually Iris and Kiawe might stand as the nearest to fully realised takes on Brock and Misty, being two of the most active companions in the newer series and getting at least consistent smidgeons of involvement throughout their respective series.
I agree with the iris and kiawe/ Brock and misty analogy. Honestly now that I think of it, Iris Kiawe and Goh would make a pretty great trio. They really have a lot of care put into their characters and development even if it isn't everyone's cup of tea and all 3 have amazing bonds with Ash in their own way. I'd love a chronicles style episode with that trio
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I agree with the iris and kiawe/ Brock and misty analogy. Honestly now that I think of it, Iris Kiawe and Goh would make a pretty great trio. They really have a lot of care put into their characters and development even if it isn't everyone's cup of tea and all 3 have amazing bonds with Ash in their own way. I'd love a chronicles style episode with that trio
I think it also shows that they really DON'T need loads of big flashy competition arcs or whatever to make characters shine. Iris and Kiawe are kinda what I consider 'reliables', characters that don't get a lot of centre stage, but tend to get enjoyable episodes and supporting roles and while a lot of what they get are gradual tidbits in the grand scheme of things, it's still rather satisfying when it's all pieced together. Sure they did DO some tournaments, but not really ones orchestrated for their role specifically, they were just good at making themselves memorable.

Compare this to characters like May or Serena who DO get a lot of central focus designed for them individually, but many debate whether they made good use of it, and sometimes have the issue of slipping into the background whenever things aren't specifically about them. Goh is undergoing a similar status, even if he also has the benefit of chemistries (and not really having anyone else to compete with in his series anyway).
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I think it also shows that they really DON'T need loads of big flashy competition arcs or whatever to make characters shine. Iris and Kiawe are kinda what I consider 'reliables', characters that don't get a lot of centre stage, but tend to get enjoyable episodes and supporting roles and while a lot of what they get are gradual tidbits in the grand scheme of things, it's still rather satisfying when it's all pieced together. Sure they did DO some tournaments, but not really ones orchestrated for their role specifically, they were just good at making themselves memorable.

Compare this to characters like May or Serena who DO get a lot of central focus designed for them individually, but many debate whether they made good use of it, and sometimes have the issue of slipping into the background whenever things aren't specifically about them. Goh is undergoing a similar status, even if he also has the benefit of chemistries (and not really having anyone else to compete with in his series anyway).
Agreed, although I wouldnt mind a character like Dawn who has flashy tournaments about her because I never really saw her fading into backgrounds when those episodes werent happening. She was very enjoyable enough on her own too and in filler episodes, a great chemistry with Ash and even in gym battles Ash had she could be of help. She to me was the perfect mix and part of the reason why shes my fav companion
 
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