Conquer Phoenix
Falling Light
How does one set up shuckle in this tier
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The Neverused Tier
- Thread starter locket
- Start date
OceanicLanturn
Non non non!
Just gonna talk about some random poke in this tier
Beartic suffers mediocre defense and terrible speed. But it function pretty well as a sweeper in rain, taking his good 110 attack into consideration. Yeah it has weakness to SR and stuff, but it can stilll do magic.
What do you guys think? Is this the wrong place??.
Beartic suffers mediocre defense and terrible speed. But it function pretty well as a sweeper in rain, taking his good 110 attack into consideration. Yeah it has weakness to SR and stuff, but it can stilll do magic.
What do you guys think? Is this the wrong place??.
Sadly shuckle isn't even good in NU..
so it looks like absol may be moving up to ru in two days.
skuntank will have to pick up its slack in place of absol although it has already been quite high in usage. i've always favored skuntank for its nice bulk and being able to use taunt easier anyway.
musharna is going to have an easier time now too. it can start running hidden power ground instead of signal beam now on non-heal bell sets to hit skuntank since that's the only common dark type left that's being used and the only one that really uses a stab pursuit anyway. i have more thoughts on this but i think i'll wait and see what drops down.
skuntank will have to pick up its slack in place of absol although it has already been quite high in usage. i've always favored skuntank for its nice bulk and being able to use taunt easier anyway.
musharna is going to have an easier time now too. it can start running hidden power ground instead of signal beam now on non-heal bell sets to hit skuntank since that's the only common dark type left that's being used and the only one that really uses a stab pursuit anyway. i have more thoughts on this but i think i'll wait and see what drops down.
I may not be the most experienced RU player in the world, but something's telling me that Metang might drop. Just a feeling.
Seriously, though, Metang might actually be a welcome addition in NU this time. Before it moved up to RU, it sucked. Now...well, it still sucks, but at least now it's one of the few Pokemon to take on Zangoose and Cincinno...sorta.
Roselia might also drop if last month's stats are of any indication. That might be a neat addition, since it would give us another decent Toxic Spikes and Spikes user, especially since the only good user of both right now is Garbador (and to some extent, Omanyte). I guess the main problem, though, is that Roselia would be competing for a spot with Amoonguss due to their similar typing.
Scolipede and Rhydon have been considered to drop by some people, and they might be really neat additions. Scolipede would definitely have the best combination of [Toxic] Spikes support and offensive presence of anything in NU, and Rhydon would just be a great new Pokemon for checking stuff like birds and the avid Normal types.
Seriously, though, Metang might actually be a welcome addition in NU this time. Before it moved up to RU, it sucked. Now...well, it still sucks, but at least now it's one of the few Pokemon to take on Zangoose and Cincinno...sorta.
Roselia might also drop if last month's stats are of any indication. That might be a neat addition, since it would give us another decent Toxic Spikes and Spikes user, especially since the only good user of both right now is Garbador (and to some extent, Omanyte). I guess the main problem, though, is that Roselia would be competing for a spot with Amoonguss due to their similar typing.
Scolipede and Rhydon have been considered to drop by some people, and they might be really neat additions. Scolipede would definitely have the best combination of [Toxic] Spikes support and offensive presence of anything in NU, and Rhydon would just be a great new Pokemon for checking stuff like birds and the avid Normal types.
OceanicLanturn
Non non non!
:O Metang was in RU?! *wide eyes* guess it didn't get a lot of usage then
But can anyone link me to the Smogon website where tiers are changed? Thanks.
So Um.. I'm curious if Beartic is actually usable in NU? Or is ice cream better?
metang can technically counter zangoose and cinccino so it's given a niche there, but yeah it would have absolutely no use otherwise. it's outclassed with dual screens and stealth rock setting. it's just that with a lack of offensive presence, it's easily set up on (unless explosion!). uninvested base 75 is weak.
roselia was around at like round 0 i think? it doesn't check fighting types well at all which is really disappointing. a lot of the special attackers are water types (with ice beam) or psychic types, so i don't really think it works out that well despite the special bulk. a hazard setter with sleep powder is definitely niche though.
scolipede and rhydon would be great additions. not much else to be said. i just think that scolipede suffers from being able to set hazards while abusing a monstrous swords dance set. if you try to have the best of both worlds (spikes and swords dance; toxic spikes are out of the question), there will definitely be a lacking coverage move.
metang was forced up to ru from the last tier changes. since ru has a really small number of battles each month, it's easy to mess up the stats. that's basically what happened; there was a small group of people using metang to the point where it moved up to ru even though it was practically a piece of crap in both tiers. unlike metang, lanturn actually has a niche in ru since it checks moltres and grants a slow volt switch.:O Metang was in RU?! *wide eyes* guess it didn't get a lot of usage thenunlike Lanturn
But can anyone link me to the Smogon website where tiers are changed? Thanks.
So Um.. I'm curious if Beartic is actually usable in NU? Or is ice cream better?
beartic and vanilluxe are pretty bad in my opinion. beartic is obviously the more viable one, but it absolutely needs aqua jet and swords dance or else it completely loses to alomomola and anything that's faster than it pre-rain. because of that, it also relies on an outside rain setter which is kind of a crutch. it's almost certain that beartic will take a hard hit or get hit with toxic which will shorten its sweep with life orb. and if you're not using rain, you're basically using an inferior physical attacker of any sort.
In all honesty, Shuckle's better in OU than NU but it's outclassed there and you have to play it very carefully but when played well, it works beautifully. Here are not just one but two examples. Surprisingly, it's gimmicky strategies work well in double battles (max defences with Guard Split, it also has access to Gastro Acid for Slaking and Regigigas).
Nvache0067
Gentleman
I would personally like to use Gigalith in an NU team, but so far all i've got is him as a stealth-rocker. (Due to sturdy, he's likely able to pull off a stealth rock before getting KO-ed unless facing off against something with mold breaker or the like.) I know he's a mono-rock type with terrible special attack and defense stats, but physically offensive wise, he ain't that bad. Any idea what i can run him as OTHER than (just) a stealth-rocker?
Btw, am new to all these competitive battling things.
Btw, am new to all these competitive battling things.
tier shift gave nu MIGHTY METANG
gigalith isn't really that good because pretty much anything else with similar roles outclasses it by doing a little more. you're really not going to find it in any other role outside of stealth rock utility. at best it could run a rock polish or choice band set but at +2 it's still not really fast and its offensive movepool is limited to moves that common things such as alomomola don't mind.
Blue Harvest
Banned
Metang is bad in RU, but it has some niche uses in NU.
With Eviolite and a Specially Defensive spread it ends up with 60 / 159 / 145 defenses. Special Defense EVs allows Metang to switch in on Kadabra, Haunter, Gardevoir, and Exeggutor with ease and Pursuit them. Metang has fantastic typing to take on Cinccino, Armaldo, Zangoose, Swellow and a ton of other things. It sets up Stealth Rocks which isn't particularly impressive, but nothing else in NU gets Steel typing, Pursuit and Rocks all in one package. When it did its job it can Explode, hopefully taking something else with it. It is a great Psychic, Ghost, Rock and Normal check, incredible defensive pivot, Pursuit utility, and a reliable source of rocks. No it can't be slapped on any random team but it is FAR better than people give it credit for.
With Eviolite and a Specially Defensive spread it ends up with 60 / 159 / 145 defenses. Special Defense EVs allows Metang to switch in on Kadabra, Haunter, Gardevoir, and Exeggutor with ease and Pursuit them. Metang has fantastic typing to take on Cinccino, Armaldo, Zangoose, Swellow and a ton of other things. It sets up Stealth Rocks which isn't particularly impressive, but nothing else in NU gets Steel typing, Pursuit and Rocks all in one package. When it did its job it can Explode, hopefully taking something else with it. It is a great Psychic, Ghost, Rock and Normal check, incredible defensive pivot, Pursuit utility, and a reliable source of rocks. No it can't be slapped on any random team but it is FAR better than people give it credit for.
metang shouldn't be capitalizing on its special defensive side. its main niche now that it's back in NU is to check fraxure, cinccino, and zangoose without being fucked by close combat/other fighting move (unlike mawile, klang, bastiodon, and probopass).
252Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Metang (+Def): 26% - 31% (87 - 103 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252Atk Toxic Boost poisoned Zangoose (Neutral) Facade vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Metang (+Def): 23% - 27% (75 - 89 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
252Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Metang (Neutral): 37% - 43% (120 - 142 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252Atk Toxic Boost poisoned Zangoose (Neutral) Facade vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Metang (Neutral): 32% - 37% (105 - 123 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
it's only specifically there to stop zangoose, imo. that's it. because if you didn't care about zangoose, you'd be better off using another check to normal and flying types. checking those is just a little bonus from metang.
from those calcs, it seems to take hits from zangoose comfortably without the investment, but it may not be enough because it doesn't really suffice when the zangoose user can simply just switch out of easily-resisted moves. compounded with the fact that hazards may be up, specially-defensive metang is dead by the second time it comes in. sometimes (even with a fully defensive spread), metang might not even win simply because of the user playing his/her zangoose smartly. however, all you need is to get off one hit on zangoose. it doesn't matter if it's only coming off of an uninvested 75 base attack and if it doesn't exactly kill. that's all you need because it just makes it infinitely easier to kill zangoose afterwards. even if the zangoose user tries to keep switching out of metang, toxic/hazards are bound to rack up. but for that to be ensured, you need the extra few switch-ins which is only granted by a fully defensive spread.
now the issue with metang is that you're going to be running something along the lines of stealth rock / meteor mash / earthquake / filler. options are explosion, bullet punch, pursuit, etc. bullet punch mostly helps you take on fraxure since metang can only 3-4HKO depending on the item (choice band or eviolite), but it also ensures that you can scare out or punish any zangoose or cinccino. explosion is only specifically to prevent being set up on since metang has mediocre coverage and attack; with that being said, explosion won't be doing a lot of damage and it'll usually be in the face of a substitute of the common things that set up on it. pursuit is painfully weak and even something like musharna laughs at it and wouldn't mind setting up on metang even if it 4x resists psychic. this is why i wouldn't even begin to think about metang as a somewhat dedicated trapper/pursuit user (except for hitting zangoose switching out) that opts for special defensive investment.
also, i'm just typing this out as i think, so now that i look at it, metang is better off using meteor mash against gardevoir because pursuit is weak:
0Atk Metang (Neutral) Pursuit vs 0HP/0Def Gardevoir (Neutral): 23% - 28% (66 - 78 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
0Atk Metang (Neutral) Pursuit vs 236HP/0Def Musharna (Neutral): 12% - 14% (54 - 64 HP). Guaranteed 8HKO.
0Atk Metang (Neutral) Pursuit vs 236HP/252Def Leftovers Musharna (+Def): 8% - 10% (38 - 46 HP). Guaranteed 12HKO.
exeggutor's in between those two i guess. i know that's assuming it stays in, but gardevoir can wear down metang significantly depending on its set. if it's offensive, metang is 2HKO'd with hazards i think?; if it's using will-o-wisp, then metang is even worse off. i believe some subcm variants run a little bulk so if you pursuit expecting a switch, gardevoir gets +1 or +2 for free. now the bigger issue here is that musharna doesn't care what metang throws at it and won't mind setting up to +6 even if psychic is pitifully weak against steel/psychic (some use signal beam though). that's a 1v1 situation though; tl;dr of this little psychic-pursuit comparison is that musharna still gets off scott-free. you're still going to need a better musharna check since it's a top-tier threat that champs hits thrown at it. yes i know that metang with pursuit may be geared more towards the frailer psychic/ghosts types aforementioned, but with the need for a musharna (why not defensive misdreavus too?) check around, having something like both skuntank and specially defensive pursuit metang is really redundant... you can run pursuit, but you might as well go physically defensive.
and lastly, ignoring the fact that it has explosion, there comes the things that can come in on its weak and/or resisted attacks such as ludicolo, mantine, gorebyss, sub bulk up braviary, SMASHKOAL, and many, many, many other set-up sweepers. all five being extremely dangerous threats with two of them being prominent, top-tier ones. yeah i know this is kind of irrelevant since this isn't my main focus, but these are just considerations for why metang needs to be used carefully. amoonguss can at least do something back to a few of them (ones that don't use sub or super-effective stab moves).
now main tl;dr, metang isn't good nor bad. but for it to not completely suck, it should never run special defense or else you're running an inferior anything really. it has a very small niche in severely weakening zangoose (and fraxure to a lesser extent) that absolutely needs the max defense to do so. and that's the only niche it should be filling.
and i seriously can't believe i typed up all this over metang.
OceanicLanturn
Non non non!
Since Metang dropped back to NU, is it appropriate to say that it is a viable Pokemon in rain? Is rain actually any good in NU?
I'm just wondering if this set is actually usable, on a rain team of course
Metang @ Eviolite
Calm (+def -spatk)
252 def/252 HP/4 atk
- Magnet Rise
- Rain Dance
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
Practically leaves Metang with no weakness for five turns
I'm just wondering if this set is actually usable, on a rain team of course
Metang @ Eviolite
Calm (+def -spatk)
252 def/252 HP/4 atk
- Magnet Rise
- Rain Dance
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
Practically leaves Metang with no weakness for five turns
Don't use magnet rise.. it kinda sucks.. "no weakness=/= best pokemon ever see eelektross.
it can set up rain but it is for offense mainly and you are not using damp rock with that set so it isn't that great.
Also calm lowers sp.attack and boosts sp.defense I think you meant impish nature.
Blue Harvest
Banned
You're very close minded there buddy. In the game of Pokemon there are many different options for each set depending on your team.
A while ago I made an NU stall team. Turns out I was very weak to offensive Psychics and Haunter, particularly those that could break through Lickilicky (which was most of them...). I needed that slot to set up Stealth Rocks. I wasn't particularly weak to Braviary / Swellow but more checks are always nice. Turns out switching Metang from Phys Def to Sp Def solved all those problems.
Metang @ Eviolite
Impish
252 HP / 16 Defense / 240 Special Defense
Meteor Mash
Pursuit
Stealth Rock
Bullet Punch / Earthquake / Explosion
First off I never once mentioned Musharna lol. Metang doesn't beat that (though it can wear down non-CM variants I guess, and at least set up rocks on it). Its goal was never to hard counter much, just force things out and rack up Pursuit damage (which with hazards and LO, quickly either turned into a KO or put it in Bullet Punch range). Bullet Punch is great to help compensate for Metang being so weak. Earthquake was good back when Magmortar was NU but it also beats Magneton. Explosion does solid damage I guess but I didn't like using it on stall. Explosion works better on most teams though.
You mention it being 3HKOed by Zangoose yet completely ignore that due to the Def drop from CC Metang beats it. Oh and even with a SP Def spread LO Cinccino 5HKOs and Fraxure 3HKOs (but seriously Fraxure?... #103 | Fraxure | 1.977%... no one uses it). Special Defense lets Metang laugh at Haunter, Kadabra, Exeggutor, and Gardevoir (LO +1 Focus Blast 2HKOs my spread ~40% of the time factoring in Accuracy but a Careful spread shrugs it off). It switches in on most birds without any difficulty, barring the occasional BU Braviary or a few crits. Even CB Braviary only 4HKOs.
Anyhow I'm not going to waste any more time on Metang. I'm not saying Special Defensive is the best, or only spread, just that it works.
Divine Retribution
Conquistador de pan
I feel Zangoose doesn't deserve his condemnation to the NU tier. I use one on my MonoNormal OU team and Toxic Boost Facade Zangoose kills everything, especially when combined with a SmashPass'er.
But most sweepers can sweep with a shell smash boost give it to ursaring and he would demolish any team anyway..
Don't place a pokemon in OU cause "it can sweep with shell smash"
I agree it is strong but I think some priority users 0HKO him and he can't stay more than 4 turns in battle
Cacturne losing Bullet Seed and Encore is an unfortunate quirk of the ban, but it's not that bad. Last month, about 60% of Cacturne in NU ran Seed Bomb as opposed to about 30% running Bullet Seed. Encore was used about 30% of the time as opposed to Substitute's 20%, which is a bit more, but the fact still stands that Seed Bomb/Substitute have very similar utilities to Bullet Seed/Encore. This knocks off a couple of his options, but I really don't think this will make Cacturne much less used at all. Just now he'll have to run Sub and Seed Bomb instead.
bullet seed is actually quite a loss, but only for niche things such as golem or when people are running through your team with some stupid sub dpunch golurk. there are also some water type sub users that would take a nice neutral or super effective hit (swanna and some gorebyss), so that is really irritating as well. seed bomb is passable.
on the other hand, substitute doesn't really make up for encore because it doesn't incapacitate some slower things that would be able to hit cacturne in other ways. amoonguss, for example, threatens with sludge bomb but locking it into giga drain is much more manageable and can help set up more spikes or double switch into something else. also, with some musharna carrying signal beam, it'd be nice to just lock it into calm mind as it's whittled slowly or as you set up spikes on it. i feel like substitute gives cacturne fewer opportunities to set up spikes, but it does help out with its offesive presence since subbing on a switch-in mitigates cacturne's lack of speed (alongside sucker punch too). so they're actually quite different in my opinion.
however, this still makes garbodor better as a spiker in my opinion. garbodor already has many ways to run a spikes set to begin with since it boasts a nice speed and a great resistance to fighting. cacturne was limited to the same set for spikes, but now that one set changed.
and honestly, i would never take usage stats for its word. people run the stupidest garbage on the ladder that the apparent popularity in seed bomb or substitute doesn't really represent the better players. but yeah it was just something to mention; there is no way that this is game-changing.