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The Next Best Thing

Discussion in '6th Gen' started by The DragonKnight, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but I'll throw my vote to ger9119, since Mandibuzz tends to be a no-brainer switch in to most Aegislash, so the ability to outright destroy its best counter unexpectedly can't be denied, especially since a lot of people rely specifically on Mandibuzz for hazard control as well.
     
  2. Sorry jack, but you submitted your set too late and I don't want everyone submitting when it's time to vote. :c

    I made a mistake with the deadline to vote, voting will end tonight at midnight, not 14 hours ago.

    I am voting for jesusfreak's set. I've tried both 252 SpA and 252 SDef and I prefer SDef, as the extra defense has come in handy multiple times. It might not be that innovative, but it's the most effective set here, imo.
     
  3. ger9119

    ger9119 Well-Known Member

    I'll vote for MMS set
     
  4. Congratulations to ger for winning with his CB set.

    Our next subject shall be Charizard!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Since this subject is Charizard, you can use an innovative set with any item, including either Mega Stone.

    Deadline to submit a set is Saturday at midnight Eastern Time.
     
  5. Charizard @ Charizardite X
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    -Dragon Dance
    -Swords Dance
    -Flare Blitz
    -Dragon Claw

    Maybe not super innovative, but you can only break away from standard so far with Charizard before you start dipping into the realm of gimmicks. Double Dance Charizard X is a pretty legit set that does a great job of taking on both offensive and defensive teams. Many offensive teams are slammed hard enough after a Dragon Dance, even with a Jolly nature, so Charizard X does a great job of sweeping those late-game. Jolly is especially useful against offensive teams since so many of them rely on Charizard X being Adamant with checks like Scarf Excadrill. Swords Dance makes Charizard X absolutely terrifying for most balanced and defensive teams to face, although Quagsire does stop it cold. Even specially defensive Heatran takes a huge chunk from a +2 Dragon Claw, capable of being 2HKOed with a little prior damage. I guess you could run Roost or extra coverage instead of Dragon Dance and go for a pure Swords Dance set seeing as how that's the main move that sets this set apart from the standard, but being able to Dragon Dance against offensive teams and sweep them so easily is such a fantastic tool that's hard to give up.
     
  6. Onyx Tanuki

    Onyx Tanuki Very very dramatical

    May as well try it out.

    Charizard @ Charizardite X
    Blaze/Solar Power > Tough Claws
    Impish
    248 HP, 252 Def, 8 Att/Speed
    - Overheat/Flare Blitz/Dragon Claw
    - Roost
    - Sky Drop/Fire Spin
    - Toxic/Will-o-Wisp

    Fire/Dragon is a pretty good typing, with a fair number of resistances that would affect Mega Charizard Y, allowing it to potentially be an unexpected physical wall. Toxic deals periodic damage, Sky Drop keeps the opposition in to take that damage, Roost heals. Fire Spin could be used in Sky Drop's place, but it's best to make sure you're trapping a physically-oriented pokemon that doesn't get a Ground/Rock/Dragon move in to ensure you can trap with Fire Spin, then poison, then Roost stall until they're at a point that your main attacking move will kill. The EVs are pretty clear, with 248 HP to keep its HP total odd. For its STAB move, CharX can go for Overheat to take on tough physical walls, or go with Flare Blitz if it doesn't care about said walls. Dragon Claw would be a good option if you'd prefer not to take recoil and want better neutral coverage, and you can use Will-o-Wisp in place of Toxic if you want to take on Steel and Poison types more effectively. One could vary this to act as a specially defensive version by going for Charizardite Y instead and trading Overheat out for Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Solarbeam, or Air Slash, but since it retains that 4x Rock weakness, it'll be much easier to impose a switch-out on it.

    The beauty of this type of set is that the opponent won't necessarily know what to switch in even if they realize it's a defensive stall set. A Fire type would easily switch in if it's carrying a Fire move for its main attack and Will-o-Wisp for DoT, but would be worthless against a combination of Dragon Claw and Toxic. A Ghost could come in if you use Fire Spin, but wouldn't fare as well against Sky Drop. Probably the best way to counter this would be to bring in a fast Special user, since its SpDef is only mediocre, and preferably something that can access Earth Power, Power Gem, or a special Dragon attack to exploit its weaknesses. Something strong with a Ground/Rock/Dragon move could do well too, so long as it can handle a few hits from Dragon Claw.
     
  7. Minedreigon

    Minedreigon A monument to all your sins

    Charizard @ Charizardite Y
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 248 SDef / 252 HP / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Solar Beam
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roost
    This Char-Y is designed for a stall team. With Solar Beam alone, Quagsire, a huge stall mon, is dealt with. But with this spread, it beats a lot more. It not only walls things but also helps brake other stall team. For example, take Azumarril. On most occasions a bulky banded Azumarril would have no worries and be able to stay in (well there would be a 40% chance to be OHKOed but it is in the Azumarril's favour), live Solar Beam and OHKO back. However, Char Y outspeeds, and can take an Aqua Jet and burn Azumarril. Waterfall does less than half after being burned so you can just roost on it, and Solar Beam 2HKO'es. It also hard walls most latias doing around 40% back, wreaks Quag, ruins Skarmory, almost always 2HKO'es Mega Venu, is VERY likely to live T-bolt from defensive Zapdos with over 50% left so you can just roost on it, outspeeds it and 2HKO'es. The majority of special attackers struggle to touch it so it's a decent special wall that can also burn unwanted threats. This set, as proven, fits on stall due to it's ability to wall and take out stuff. It's also very anti stall as show above. This can shorten the length of most "stall wars" by a huge amount.

    Relevant calcs:
    252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 146-174 (40.5 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power burned Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 145-172 (40.2 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 310-366 (76.7 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
    252 SpA Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 144-169 (40 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias in Sun: 106-126 (35 - 41.7%) -- 82.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    0 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 488-576 (123.8 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory in Sun: 714-840 (213.7 - 251.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (sturdy though)
    0 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
    0 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos in Sun: 291-343 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    0 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Charizard Y: 152-182 (42.2 - 50.5%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  8. Clone™

    Clone™ Ded

    Charizard (M) @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 188 SDef / 40 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Roost
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Bulky Xard is great. Being able to cripple switch in is greater. Being able to do both of the above while still maintaining a large offensive presence is borderline amazing. Bulky Xard is able to spread burns around the opponents team while still having great bulk and good offensive presence. This set works well with stall, but thats not to say that balanced teams cant use it either. This set is able to beat some of the switch ins that would normally beat Xard. TTar? Burned. Garchomp? Burned. Terrakion? Burned. Basically any physical switch in is crippled on the switch in by this surprising effective defensive set.
     
  9. @Clone - TankZard has actually become very well known and is used a fair amount. It isn't a new set, so I'm not going to count it.


    Charizard (M) @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Flame Charge
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    This thing hits so freaking hard it isn't even funny. It OHKOs max defense Hippowdon after Belly Drum with Dragon Claw. Let that sink in.

    +6 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 444-523 (105.7 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +6 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 453-534 (112.1 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +6 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 339-400 (95.7 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

    Of course it struggles to beat Unaware users, namely Quagsire, but it punches major wholes in unprepared teams.

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-116805584
     
  10. Onyx Tanuki

    Onyx Tanuki Very very dramatical

    @TDK: We're only allowed one set a piece right? I had another idea involving regular Char, but obviously I already have the stall set for X I posted up above...
     
  11. Yes, only one set per person. You're allowed to change the set though :]
     
  12. Onyx Tanuki

    Onyx Tanuki Very very dramatical

    Aight. I'll probably stick with the current one either way. It was gonna be a suicide sweeper to exploit Solar Power and Life Orb, which I think would be regular Charizard's most obvious use, whereas I doubt one really sees a lot of Trapizard around.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  13. Snorby

    Snorby Snorby

    voting for DK's Bellyzard cuz real as f*ck
     
  14. Onyx Tanuki

    Onyx Tanuki Very very dramatical

    I'll go ahead and put in a vote for Minedreigon's set.
     
  15. Volcer

    Volcer Shur'tugal

    Minedreigon
     
  16. Kitt Geekazaru

    Kitt Geekazaru Infernape Trainer

    I'll vote for that dunsparce over there. Yeah, the one who actually used CharY. What is it, Mydragon? Minddragon? Oh, Minedragon.
     
  17. FlareBlitz3000

    FlareBlitz3000 Legg University QB

    Minedreigon
     
  18. ger9119

    ger9119 Well-Known Member

    voting for DK's belly drum set
     
  19. Clone™

    Clone™ Ded

    Minedrei gon.
     

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