The Offical Evangelion Thread

[Kanadian Kyuubi]

Evangelion is a sci-fi Anime series merging high flying Robot Fighting action with relgious elements, and it was pretty popular...yes it already ended like 10 years ago. But, Cartoon Network's Adult Swim block is currenly airing this great "big scary robots" genre anime show, so, anyone want to bat up to the plate?​

Discuss, and don't *BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP* (episode 15 AS airing refference). Non censorship related posts from the "Watch Evangelion Episode 15 on Adult Swim anyone?" thread might be merged. If you want to talk controversy about this show in general, do it here, if you want to talk about the "don't beeeeep" incident, save it for the other thread.

Okay, now discuss!

 

[HK]

Ha, well, I suppose that I should've made a thread earlier... Meh, anyway, thanks Kanadian Kyuubi, and I might as well put up the remaining stuff here and see what crap that I can cook up.

... And yes, if a moderator were to merge a fair share of the posts in the other thread then that would be beneficial.

... Rei's hawt! >_>

O_O I don't know...

It's because my username, signature, and the way that I put my words on the computer screen is so sexy. It takes a while for some to get it, but when they come to this understanding, even they themselves find it hard to deny this fact (even though they do that anyway ;D).

We both seem to have reached a point of agreement, I think
Neglection is one of those situations where you don't exactly have a light to guide through the darkness, and you're to afraid to let others close for fear they'll dessert you again. Fear mixed with depression.

Just when I was going to agree on our agreement... I have to disagree with you here, slightly. I don't think that neglect made Shinji be afraid to interact with others, but rather it was he never attempted to establish a relationship with anyone. To be neglected (to me, at least) is a similar form of rejection -- to approach someone and then be stopped from going any further with them. Shinji could never interact with others properly not because he was neglected (despite not seeing his father impacting him), but because he never tried to. You can be rejected without actually going up to the person and be rejected.

*looks around* Anyone under thirteen even get the basic plot and theme of Evangelion, besides the fact that it has violence, mechs, and naked girls?

That's a good question. Anyone here reading it who hasn't been scared off by the amount of text want to answer that? Or perhaps I'll see if I can find some myself...

I've noticed that a lot of people didn't like those episodes :/

...

O RLY?

I'm sorry, I know that you weren't being as serious as one could be, but I couldn't resist.

Are you insulting cake?

No, just stating that not everyone will like the same type of cake. That holds true with music, movies, sports, books, hell, even manga/anime.

<3 Death Note, Trigun, Area 81, and FMA.

Haven't read/seen Area 81, but I can attest to the others being excellent, in fact. Although, they are less of a mature thoughtfulness that others... ah, whatever fits your likes.

You'd fall in, the 'fan' catagory. Not to obsessed and not to newbish.

Which is rather funny, considering I didn't even see anything of the series until last... November or whenever it was when AS started airing it. I didn't view it seriously until late December when I got the Thinpak Platinum Collection for Christmas. So, if anything, I'm still quite "new" to Evangelion compared to a helluva lot of others.

I like to cut to the point and make it well-informed, yet short. Although at times it may not be clear.

Well, let me hope that you can be short and to the point with enough information while still continuing long discussions. Coherency is the key.

I think that we basically agree on everything Hellkorn 8D It just took a while (and a couple of long posts) for us to realize that.

Well, everything that was said before my post, that's for certain.

Well, on that note, I have a fairly simple question to ask: What exactly do you consider Evangelion to be? Like, what are the underlying messages and what do the character perhaps represent not only of Anno, but of the culture that views it (anime fans, and the obsessive ones -- i.e. "otaku") and the society that it commentates on (which initially pertains to the Japanese society, but then -- in my view -- extends itself to human behavior overall)?

How's that for a general but interesting discussion? >_>

 

[Akilah Imani]

It's because my username, signature, and the way that I put my words on the computer screen is so sexy. It takes a while for some to get it, but when they come to this understanding, even they themselves find it hard to deny this fact (even though they do that anyway ;D).

Oh, God help us. You're almost more egotistical than me, almost.

Just when I was going to agree on our agreement... I have to disagree with you here, slightly. I don't think that neglect made Shinji be afraid to interact with others, but rather it was he never attempted to establish a relationship with anyone. To be neglected (to me, at least) is a similar form of rejection -- to approach someone and then be stopped from going any further with them. Shinji could never interact with others properly not because he was neglected (despite not seeing his father impacting him), but because he never tried to. You can be rejected without actually going up to the person and be rejected.

Dude, leik didn't you s33 my whole light through the darkness 4n4l0gy!?

Let me explain. I think that Shinji was shroweded in the darkness of neglection and he didn't have a light (friend or companion) to help guide him out of his corporeal hell. He just sat alone weighed down by his own sorrow and sadness, which in turn held him from reaching out to others. He was rejected, and his own feelings kept him from being able to acknowledge the few people who love him/tried to reach out to him. I think that Shinji was afraid of others leaving him, because he didn't want to be alone again once that glimspe of hope came. His thing was, "If I don't let them get to close, then I won't have to feel the pain". Rejection and neglection go hand in hand to me. You have to be rejected in order to be neglected and vice-versa.

...

O RLY?

I'm sorry, I know that you weren't being as serious as one could be, but I couldn't resist.

No fair....I'm the witty one...I call the next sarcastic remark

No, just stating that not everyone will like the same type of cake. That holds true with music, movies, sports, books, hell, even manga/anime.

Oh! So now you're insulting cakes that are the same?

Haven't read/seen Area 81, but I can attest to the others being excellent, in fact. Although, they are less of a mature thoughtfulness that others... ah, whatever fits your likes.

I don't have a huge selection of anime -_- I'm currently limited to what I can and cannot view. I'd like to expand my horizon, but I don't know where to start. Any suggestions?

Which is rather funny, considering I didn't even see anything of the series until last... November or whenever it was when AS started airing it. I didn't view it seriously until late December when I got the Thinpak Platinum Collection for Christmas. So, if anything, I'm still quite "new" to Evangelion compared to a helluva lot of others.

If you're "new" then I'm clueless >_>

Well, let me hope that you can be short and to the point with enough information while still continuing long discussions. Coherency is the key.

Oh don't worry, I wont get long at all. Truuuust me.

Well, on that note, I have a fairly simple question to ask: What exactly do you consider Evangelion to be? Like, what are the underlying messages and what do the character perhaps represent not only of Anno, but of the culture that views it (anime fans, and the obsessive ones -- i.e. "otaku") and the society that it commentates on (which initially pertains to the Japanese society, but then -- in my view -- extends itself to human behavior overall)?

How's that for a general but interesting discussion? >_>

*reads question 5 times* Okay I get it! 8D

Evangelion is an anime.
And it's people represent anime characters within an anime.

.....just joking. I have to go now, so I'll post my response to your question later when I get back.

Psycho

 

[HK]

Oh, God help us. You're almost more egotistical than me, almost.

Oh no, I'm more egotistical than you in certain cases, as you are in other aspects. Just depends on what you're talking about.

Dude, leik didn't you s33 my whole light through the darkness 4n4l0gy!?

Yeah, and I disagreed with what I saw.

Let me explain. I think that Shinji was shroweded in the darkness of neglection and he didn't have a light (friend or companion) to help guide him out of his corporeal hell. He just sat alone weighed down by his own sorrow and sadness, which in turn held him from reaching out to others.

I understand where you are coming from, but again, it is hard to find something if you aren't looking for it. I know that a circular arguement could come of this since we could argue what is more important: either an individual seeks out what he wants or else others try to look out for him/her in the first place. I do agree that Shinji was alone and without a light that he was aware of, so he couldn't find it because he didn't bother reaching out for others.

He was rejected, and his own feelings kept him from being able to acknowledge the few people who love him/tried to reach out to him. I think that Shinji was afraid of others leaving him, because he didn't want to be alone again once that glimspe of hope came.

That was pretty much the main idea of Shinji's character, obviously. :/ But considering that, though, Shinji didn't have many people who cared for him and tried to look out for him, as we both agree. He needed to get through to others, though. That was another underlying theme behind not only him, but of the series and the message that it carries. Nobody is going to offer you solace and present you with a paradise, you have to make it yourself. That was what Shinji struggled to comprehend with his entire life.

His thing was, "If I don't let them get to close, then I won't have to feel the pain". Rejection and neglection go hand in hand to me. You have to be rejected in order to be neglected and vice-versa.

I agree with you on his line of thinking, but I still have to argue on the point that rejection immediately goes hand in hand with neglection. Shinji was neglected, no absolute arguement there. Shinji was never rejected for the majority of his life, though, [spoil]save for his father.[/spoil] Even to that point, there are plenty of people who can go on without [spoil]having any parents to help guide them.[/spoil] Shinji feared rejection, but he never received [spoil]until he was actually piloting Evangelion Unit-One, which is rather ironic if you ask me.[/spoil]

... On the subject of irony, I do find it amusing that Shinji's theory did work in some way. After all, everyone he cared about [spoil]was hurt by him greatly, even killed in the end. Toji was not killed by Shinji, however, I find it irritating when I see people try not to fault Shinji when it was obvious that had Shinji fought back and attempted to rescue his friend, then Toji wouldn't have lost his leg and Shinji wouldn't have to distance himself from him, Kensuke, and Hikari.

Then, you have Asuka who felt started to feel some form of rejection from him in episode fifteen after she kissed him and he looked relieved for it to be over afterwards. Then, we see the whole "mind-rape" in episode twenty-two, and then ending with her being killed by the Mass Produced Evangelion Series (a.k.a. the Harpies) in The End of Evangelion because Shinji failed to act. Consider also Rei who realized that she cared deeply for Shinji and knew that she wouldn't be able to connect with him further because she had to sacrifice herself in episode twenty-three, and then her next clone lost those memories (although, there is reason to believe that the feelings still existed since she chose to let Shinji choose how to go with Complementation instead of his father in the movie). Lastly, Misato, whom I have to say really pulled through in the movie, and had one of the most "Aw, man, that right there is just f'ed up!" deaths imaginable. She drug Shinji around like a doll throughout the first half of the movie only to be killed when a shot finally gets her... That was just plain sad and like Asuka, Shinji's indecisiveness killed her.[/spoil]

Oh yes, Shinji has courage, but damn, the boy brings himself and everyone down around him.

No fair....I'm the witty one...I call the next sarcastic remark

Should I give you a "Here is where you can remark:" indicator for you if it's too hard?

Oh! So now you're insulting cakes that are the same?

... Eh, wha'?

I don't have a huge selection of anime -_- I'm currently limited to what I can and cannot view. I'd like to expand my horizon, but I don't know where to start. Any suggestions?

Well, I'm more versed in manga (and that's an understatement to some degree), but I do know of few good anime series/movies that you would enjoy. Akira is always a classic, Elfen Lied and Saikano are good for something of a tragedy romance, Paranoia Agent has some amazing social commentary, and I have a personal taste in futuristic but emotional series such as Blue Gender. I'll have to get back to you for more, because I do know of some that are quite good.

If you're "new" then I'm clueless >_>

Then I'm already smarter. ;D

Oh don't worry, I wont get long at all. Truuuust me.

... Was that your sarcastic remark that you reserved from earlier?

*reads question 5 times* Okay I get it! 8D

Evangelion is an anime.
And it's people represent anime characters within an anime.

Brilliant, now say this to the obsessive fanboys.

.....just joking. I have to go now, so I'll post my response to your question later when I get back.

Been a few days since then... no? I'll be waiting and willing to counter.

 

[Akilah Imani]

Oh no, I'm more egotistical than you in certain cases, as you are in other aspects. Just depends on what you're talking about.

I'm egotistical in every subject.

Yeah, and I disagreed with what I saw.

Never respond to 1337 with intelligence >_>

I understand where you are coming from, but again, it is hard to find something if you aren't looking for it. I know that a circular arguement could come of this since we could argue what is more important: either an individual seeks out what he wants or else others try to look out for him/her in the first place. I do agree that Shinji was alone and without a light that he was aware of, so he couldn't find it because he didn't bother reaching out for others.

Now I agree with you.

That was pretty much the main idea of Shinji's character, obviously. :/ But considering that, though, Shinji didn't have many people who cared for him and tried to look out for him, as we both agree. He needed to get through to others, though. That was another underlying theme behind not only him, but of the series and the message that it carries. Nobody is going to offer you solace and present you with a paradise, you have to make it yourself. That was what Shinji struggled to comprehend with his entire life.

Good then we agree. That's one less post for me to apply to.

I agree with you on his line of thinking, but I still have to argue on the point that rejection immediately goes hand in hand with neglection. Shinji was neglected, no absolute arguement there. Shinji was never rejected for the majority of his life, though, [spoil]save for his father.[/spoil] Even to that point, there are plenty of people who can go on without [spoil]having any parents to help guide them.[/spoil] Shinji feared rejection, but he never received [spoil]until he was actually piloting Evangelion Unit-One, which is rather ironic if you ask me.[/spoil]

Had Shinji not been

rejected by his father

he wouldn't have felt so neglected all of his life would he? I find that the two go hand in hand because to reject is to cast off, just as neglect can be to cast off. Of course, neglection means to not give attention to or care for, but rejection is the same in a way. To reject is to juct descard, to completely turn away. There is where I can see the common point. And although, Shinji may have never been rejected for the majority of his life by others, the fact that it was [SPOIL]his father[/SPOIL] is what effects him the greatest. Being rejected by a parent and a friend/outside family member is completely different. A child has a special connection to that of a parent, because they are their parents offspring and lineage. They are the parents seed. There is a connection there that differs from any other relatiionship you may encounter. A boy looks up to his father for approval, because he will someday become a man and his father is the one to show him the way. Without his father being there, Shinji had a huge hole in his life and identity because of it. That hole never left, but instead, grew with him. I'm speaking from experience here. Despite that fact that I'm different from Shinji in a lot of ways, we have a similar situation regarding the father-figures (minus the robots and secret government organization ;D)

Oh yes, Shinji has courage, but damn, the boy brings himself and everyone down around him.

Yes, but then again Misato is the optimistic one, you can't have too many of the same or otherwise it would break the balance.

Should I give you a "Here is where you can remark:" indicator for you if it's too hard?

Oh no, sarcasm is my gift. One that is highly threasure and sought by some cultures. Chances are you'd miss it if I were to let one fly at you

... Eh, wha'?

Exactly, you got so caught up in your earlier explanation that you missed the fact that the whole 'cake thing' was a joke Sorry if it wasn't too clear, but I tend to like to lighten up the mood every once in a while to keep people from getting to serious and forgetting the fun of a good discussion. Although, once I had saw that you were so caught up in explaining, I couldn't help but continue to pull your leg >:]

Well, I'm more versed in manga (and that's an understatement to some degree), but I do know of few good anime series/movies that you would enjoy. Akira is always a classic, Elfen Lied and Saikano are good for something of a tragedy romance, Paranoia Agent has some amazing social commentary, and I have a personal taste in futuristic but emotional series such as Blue Gender. I'll have to get back to you for more, because I do know of some that are quite good.

Elfen Lied and Akira, I do have stored in my knowledge banks. Paranoia Agent is one of my favorites to appear on adult swim. Do you like/watch/read Witch Hunter Robin, Nightwalker, .Hack/Sign, Vision of Escaflowne, or Serial Experiments Lain?

Then I'm already smarter. ;D

My ego won't let me say yes :3

... Was that your sarcastic remark that you reserved from earlier?

No, I was being serious. Didn't I say that I was lazy?

Brilliant, now say this to the obsessive fanboys.

No problem, I love bringing them all crashing back down into the relm of reality.

Been a few days since then... no? I'll be waiting and willing to counter.

I was waiting for you to reply, rather than add it on to my additional post. Okay here it goes, I'm going to plain and simple. One message that I believe that sticks out the most are: At times you'll have to things for yourself rather than always rely on others. I'll take Shinji for example, at times he wasn't willing to do anything to change his situation, and look what he got from it-nothing. If you don't put out anything then you won't get anything. Shinji was down, yes, but rather than get up, he wanted others to come down to him. Asuka shows that even those who are spunky and rambunctious, put it on as a shell to hide how they truly feel. She doesn't want others to see her as weak or reveal the fact that she is in someways weak. Which is why she's always arguing, yelling, and picking on Shinji. She doesn't want to be lower than anyone, especially Shinji-her rival- and if she can keep him down, then she'll at least be better than someone. I've seen it each time Shinji may do good or better, she does all she can to undermine what he's done and put him back down into his place-that's how those archtypes are. Asuka is competitive, which is why she always yells at Shinji when he doesn't do anything. She sees him as a rival (as she does wonder girl) and she stand the fact that she may, in some ways, actually repsect Shinji and admit that he does have some skill in him-Asuka has her pride. That's where the tearing down part comes from, no one wants to see their rival surpass them, and no one wants to see their rival just give up and quit without putting up a fight. Asuka likes a challenge, because of the sense of accomplishment it gives her when she over comes it. If there isn't much to overcome then what sense of self-satidfactory can one attain from it.

As for what I consider Evangelion to be. I really have never considered that. I'm not the type who gets too involved (unless its mindblowingly good). It may be a good anime, but not as thought provoking for me :/ I will however take your question into consideration and provide, hopefully, an answer that is to your satisfactory.

Alright, your turn

Psycho

 

[HK]

I'm sorry, but I was just amused by this:

Alright, your turn

You are just welcoming a long-a*s debate with me, ain'tcha? Well, it also depends on finding things to debate about in Evangelion... and if you have the patience to do so and put up with general and specific aspects, then believe me, my prediction of going pages upon pages is quite valid.

Now then, let's begin, children. ;D

I'm egotistical in every subject.

So you believe that you are a great rock climber?

Never respond to 1337 with intelligence >_>

I forgot the nt3rn3tzz unwritten rule number eight -- the dumb one is the one who responds with coherency.

Now I agree with you.

w00t!

Good then we agree. That's one less post for me to apply to.

woot! II

Had Shinji not been rejected by his father he wouldn't have felt so neglected all of his life would he? I find that the two go hand in hand because to reject is to cast off, just as neglect can be to cast off.

They can be similar, but for this instance you have to consider that important fact that Shinji was only rejected by his father. For neglect and rejection, Shinji had both of those done unto him by his father. However, he was not rejected by others [spoil]before becoming an Evangelion Pilot[/spoil] because he never had the chance to be rejected -- i.e. he never approached anyone and just stayed in his comfortable little shell. He was neglected by others to be brought out of that shell, but the others couldn't reject him if they didn't get to him and do so.

Of course, neglection means to not give attention to or care for, but rejection is the same in a way. To reject is to juct descard, to completely turn away. There is where I can see the common point.

Remember, though, Evangelion is hardly as black and white as that. Shinji was neglected by everyone, and just rejected by his father in his first fourteen years of life. To neglect is not give the proper attention and/or care to someone that they need, and to reject means for that person to approach you with their problems/needs/desires and turn them down. Shinji was [spoil]offered a choice to pilot Evangelion Unit-One, and he chose to do so after witnessing the current situation when he first arrived at Nerv.[/spoil] Consider that Shinji was rejected by someone whom he desired attention/care from in the series only [spoil]by two people in the series; the first being in episode fifteen when he and his father were at the graveyard (something that I consider a vital point in Gendo's character and later concluding his actions in the movie), and then by Asuka when he went through Complementation in The End of Evangelion.[/spoil] Ironicly, that's the kind of rejection that a lot of males go through in their teenage years, although Shinji has an extreme case of it.

I've stated before and I'll state it again -- Shinji was only rejected by his father in his earlier years because he was the only one he tried to approach and got denied. All others simply did not pay attention to him because he didn't bother to reach out to others.

And although, Shinji may have never been rejected for the majority of his life by others, the fact that it was [SPOIL]his father[/SPOIL] is what effects him the greatest. Being rejected by a parent and a friend/outside family member is completely different. A child has a special connection to that of a parent, because they are their parents offspring and lineage. They are the parents seed. There is a connection there that differs from any other relatiionship you may encounter. A boy looks up to his father for approval, because he will someday become a man and his father is the one to show him the way. Without his father being there, Shinji had a huge hole in his life and identity because of it. That hole never left, but instead, grew with him. I'm speaking from experience here. Despite that fact that I'm different from Shinji in a lot of ways, we have a similar situation regarding the father-figures (minus the robots and secret government organization ;D)

I completely agree with you here, though. And to add to the angst of comparing myself to Shinji, I also have something of "father problems" myself, although my relationship with my dad have improved recently to say the least. I grew up with more acceptance from my family and friends than Shinji did, but I can relate to him in that aspect, at least (as well as running away from my problems, but that's another matter).

Yes, but then again Misato is the optimistic one, you can't have too many of the same or otherwise it would break the balance.

I dunno. I've seen series that are pretty damn good and don't have an optimistic character... well, as one of the main characters, at least.

Oh no, sarcasm is my gift. One that is highly threasure and sought by some cultures. Chances are you'd miss it if I were to let one fly at you

43@r t3h $@rk@zm o d00m!!1111

... Damn, I'm just bad at that.

Exactly, you got so caught up in your earlier explanation that you missed the fact that the whole 'cake thing' was a joke Sorry if it wasn't too clear, but I tend to like to lighten up the mood every once in a while to keep people from getting to serious and forgetting the fun of a good discussion. Although, once I had saw that you were so caught up in explaining, I couldn't help but continue to pull your leg >:]

Naw, you just worded it oddly and I didn't initially comprehend it. Or at least that is what my ego is telling me.

Elfen Lied and Akira, I do have stored in my knowledge banks. Paranoia Agent is one of my favorites to appear on adult swim. Do you like/watch/read Witch Hunter Robin, Nightwalker, .Hack/Sign, Vision of Escaflowne, or Serial Experiments Lain?

I can't attest much to a lot of those, save for .hack/sign. However, I do know of the classic feel that Escaflowne and Serial Experiments Lain represent, as they are in the realm of the better anime series put out during the decade of the last century.

My ego won't let me say yes :3

Then your ego denies fact.

No, I was being serious. Didn't I say that I was lazy?

Meh, it's like seeing myself as a mirror image... as a girl... on the internet... Hell, you know what I mean.

No problem, I love bringing them all crashing back down into the relm of reality.

What would be interesting to see is when you go up against the intelligent fanboys/fangirls. Now those are hard to overcome, if impossible.

I was waiting for you to reply, rather than add it on to my additional post.

I figured as much. Wanted to serve as a reminder in case you forgot, just to note.

Okay here it goes, I'm going to plain and simple.

Damn, and here I was hoping that you would ramble intelligently and then finally get to the point like I do. >_o

One message that I believe that sticks out the most are: At times you'll have to things for yourself rather than always rely on others. I'll take Shinji for example, at times he wasn't willing to do anything to change his situation, and look what he got from it-nothing. If you don't put out anything then you won't get anything. Shinji was down, yes, but rather than get up, he wanted others to come down to him. Asuka shows that even those who are spunky and rambunctious, put it on as a shell to hide how they truly feel. She doesn't want others to see her as weak or reveal the fact that she is in someways weak. Which is why she's always arguing, yelling, and picking on Shinji. She doesn't want to be lower than anyone, especially Shinji-her rival- and if she can keep him down, then she'll at least be better than someone. I've seen it each time Shinji may do good or better, she does all she can to undermine what he's done and put him back down into his place-that's how those archtypes are. Asuka is competitive, which is why she always yells at Shinji when he doesn't do anything. She sees him as a rival (as she does wonder girl) and she stand the fact that she may, in some ways, actually repsect Shinji and admit that he does have some skill in him-Asuka has her pride. That's where the tearing down part comes from, no one wants to see their rival surpass them, and no one wants to see their rival just give up and quit without putting up a fight. Asuka likes a challenge, because of the sense of accomplishment it gives her when she over comes it. If there isn't much to overcome then what sense of self-satidfactory can one attain from it.

Well, I think that you were starting out well enough and got a little away from your desired goal... but I get the picture. Although, I would have to say that that message was [spoil]only made clear at the end of the movie with Asuka's final line. Whenever we have an epiphany and accept it, bettering ourselves, there is hope for things to return to the ways they were and for them to be better in the second given chance. However, that does not mean that things will come easy for you. Shinji has come back to a world where there is little to be optimistic about, but it is still there, and I would like to point to the fact that the shoreline that he and Asuka were at the be an important symbolism -- the pure white, a "clean slate," if you will, to start over with this world, with others, and with life. Rei's and Yui's final words also give me some hope as well about not just what might have happened after the movie ended, but of life itself. Kind of pathetic, I know, for inspiration like that to come from an anime series, but hey, with a series like Evangelion it can happen.[/spoil]

As for what I consider Evangelion to be. I really have never considered that. I'm not the type who gets too involved (unless its mindblowingly good). It may be a good anime, but not as thought provoking for me :/ I will however take your question into consideration and provide, hopefully, an answer that is to your satisfactory.

It comes down to matters of taste, really. As far as being deep and raw, I believe that it is a combination of 2001: A Space Odyssey and A Clockwork Orange in that aspect, and in my humble opinion surpassing both of them in that respect.

I also look forward to your own answer.

Now, as far my take on all of this... well, I can't put everything that I believe what the messages were and what Evangelion truly was and still is, but I can give one theme I believe to be true.

I believe, as is the general consensus of those who are of adequate intelligence to realize this, that one of the major themes is defined in the first episode with Shinji repeating the lines, "I musn't run away. I musn't run away." Escape from reality comes in so many forms nowadays that it is almost unbelievable (then again, I've yet to come to a satisfying conclusion as to what society should view as reality other than what you make of it, but that's a debate for another time). We try to push away our problems and seek comfort in our own ways, whether it be through things as different as watching television, reading books, having sex, watching sports, playing video games, watching television, etc. and yet we never truly attempt to confront our problems and overcome them. This is in where Shinji comes in, lives, and eventually [spoil]overcomes those hardships to realize that this false paradise that was projected in Human Instrumentality was wrong, and that to face reality, while more than likely hurting yourself and others, is the only way to get past and grow from your problems.[/spoil]

And people say that Shinji never emotionally developed/matured and was one of the worst characters ever created. :/ Most of these people hate Shinji because they see themselves in him and despise themselves for it, whether they know it or not.

 

[Akilah Imani]

I'm sorry, but I was just amused by this:

I am an incredibly amusing person.

You are just welcoming a long-a*s debate with me, ain'tcha? Well, it also depends on finding things to debate about in Evangelion... and if you have the patience to do so and put up with general and specific aspects, then believe me, my prediction of going pages upon pages is quite valid.

Now then, let's begin, children. ;D

Why do I have a bad feeling about this

So you believe that you are a great rock climber?

Yes, and a motorcyclist, bungee jumper, and karate grandmaster. You name it.

I forgot the nt3rn3tzz unwritten rule number eight -- the dumb one is the one who responds with coherency.

Shame on you. I insist that you remember this for future reference.

w00t!

woot! II

Let's go for three.

They can be similar, but for this instance you have to consider that important fact that Shinji was only rejected by his father. For neglect and rejection, Shinji had both of those done unto him by his father. However, he was not rejected by others [spoil]before becoming an Evangelion Pilot[/spoil] because he never had the chance to be rejected -- i.e. he never approached anyone and just stayed in his comfortable little shell. He was neglected by others to be brought out of that shell, but the others couldn't reject him if they didn't get to him and do so.

Remember, though, Evangelion is hardly as black and white as that. Shinji was neglected by everyone, and just rejected by his father in his first fourteen years of life. To neglect is not give the proper attention and/or care to someone that they need, and to reject means for that person to approach you with their problems/needs/desires and turn them down. Shinji was [spoil]offered a choice to pilot Evangelion Unit-One, and he chose to do so after witnessing the current situation when he first arrived at Nerv.[/spoil] Consider that Shinji was rejected by someone whom he desired attention/care from in the series only [spoil]by two people in the series; the first being in episode fifteen when he and his father were at the graveyard (something that I consider a vital point in Gendo's character and later concluding his actions in the movie), and then by Asuka when he went through Complementation in The End of Evangelion.[/spoil] Ironicly, that's the kind of rejection that a lot of males go through in their teenage years, although Shinji has an extreme case of it.

I've stated before and I'll state it again -- Shinji was only rejected by his father in his earlier years because he was the only one he tried to approach and got denied. All others simply did not pay attention to him because he didn't bother to reach out to others.

True, yet I think that people can reject you without knowing it or even intending to do so. I find the fact that he was rejected by one of the most important people in a child's life to have a more critical effect on him than being rejected by some random stranger/friend/outside family member. Shinji felt rejected by others because he, himself, would never step out of his shell and reach out to touch others [SPOIL]until later in the series[/SPOIL]. When you're throwing your own pity party you tend to look to blame others as much as yourself-that is where the feeling of rejection came from. Just sitting by yourself and watching those by you talking and having fun can feel like rejection, because no one bothers to say anything to you or even care; similar to walking along a busy street or intersection and feeling like no one cares because you go unoticed, people don't mean it, but they can be rejectig you indirectly. Once Misato came along, Shinji felt what it was like to have someone to try to reach out to you, but because of himself, he didn't know exactly how to take it in or react (like you said about his communication skills earlier). If you look at it that way, Shinji really just rejected himself, he denied himself some of the pleasures of life.

I say that because I've rejected people without the intention or awareness of it. For some people it wouldn't seem like rejection because they're used to pushing people away. You can reject with your attitude, actions, lifestyle, ect. without even knowing or meaning it, just because it seems so natural to you and you're comfortable with it. Not paying attention because someone is the 'quiett type' or 'weird' is a form of rejection to me.

I completely agree with you here, though. And to add to the angst of comparing myself to Shinji, I also have something of "father problems" myself, although my relationship with my dad have improved recently to say the least. I grew up with more acceptance from my family and friends than Shinji did, but I can relate to him in that aspect, at least (as well as running away from my problems, but that's another matter).

That's where we differ. My relationship with my father never improved, and I really don't care if it doesn't. I can already tell that our backgrounds are completely different, which just makes how we view things and who we are, all the more interesting

I would just like to say: W00t! III

I dunno. I've seen series that are pretty damn good and don't have an optimistic character... well, as one of the main characters, at least.

I didn't mean not having an optimistic character, I meant creating an imbalance by having too many characters who are too similar and have little difference. It can get boring if to many of the characters are the same or cliche.

43@r t3h $@rk@zm o d00m!!1111

... Damn, I'm just bad at that.

1 4r3 73|-| 1337 0|\|3!!11!!111

It's a trick of morphology, you have to be born with it XD

Naw, you just worded it oddly and I didn't initially comprehend it. Or at least that is what my ego is telling me.

I love egos, they keep us from acknowledging that which is true and ultimately make us lie to ourselves.

I can't attest much to a lot of those, save for .hack/sign. However, I do know of the classic feel that Escaflowne and Serial Experiments Lain represent, as they are in the realm of the better anime series put out during the decade of the last century.

You would like Witch Hunter Robin. What do you particularly look for in an anime?

Then your ego denies fact.

No, your ego admits untruths.

Meh, it's like seeing myself as a mirror image... as a girl... on the internet... Hell, you know what I mean.

Yes, please refrain from further explaining yourself The feeling is mutual.

What would be interesting to see is when you go up against the intelligent fanboys/fangirls. Now those are hard to overcome, if impossible.

I'm not called Psycho for nothing. I have ways of persuading people, you could say and a few instruments of toruture, but its not like they're illegal or anything. I think.

I probably would still kick butt either ways [/ego]

I figured as much. Wanted to serve as a reminder in case you forgot, just to note.

I couldn't leave a good response unreplied.

Damn, and here I was hoping that you would ramble intelligently and then finally get to the point like I do. >_o

Have to stay true to my colors ^_________^

Well, I think that you were starting out well enough and got a little away from your desired goal... but I get the picture. Although, I would have to say that that message was [spoil]only made clear at the end of the movie with Asuka's final line. Whenever we have an epiphany and accept it, bettering ourselves, there is hope for things to return to the ways they were and for them to be better in the second given chance. However, that does not mean that things will come easy for you. Shinji has come back to a world where there is little to be optimistic about, but it is still there, and I would like to point to the fact that the shoreline that he and Asuka were at the be an important symbolism -- the pure white, a "clean slate," if you will, to start over with this world, with others, and with life. Rei's and Yui's final words also give me some hope as well about not just what might have happened after the movie ended, but of life itself. Kind of pathetic, I know, for inspiration like that to come from an anime series, but hey, with a series like Evangelion it can happen.[/spoil]

Yeah, I kind of lost myself in the explanation, but at least my initial meaning was clear. To tell the truth, had I not seen the movie, I wouldn't have had that same view. The movie was eyeopening on a lot of points and finalized the charater's development as well as attributes. I can relate to Asuka in some ways and in other ways I can see her in a plethora of the people around me.

It comes down to matters of taste, really. As far as being deep and raw, I believe that it is a combination of 2001: A Space Odyssey and A Clockwork Orange in that aspect, and in my humble opinion surpassing both of them in that respect.

I also look forward to your own answer.

Now, as far my take on all of this... well, I can't put everything that I believe what the messages were and what Evangelion truly was and still is, but I can give one theme I believe to be true.

I believe, as is the general consensus of those who are of adequate intelligence to realize this, that one of the major themes is defined in the first episode with Shinji repeating the lines, "I musn't run away. I musn't run away." Escape from reality comes in so many forms nowadays that it is almost unbelievable (then again, I've yet to come to a satisfying conclusion as to what society should view as reality other than what you make of it, but that's a debate for another time). We try to push away our problems and seek comfort in our own ways, whether it be through things as different as watching television, reading books, having sex, watching sports, playing video games, watching television, etc. and yet we never truly attempt to confront our problems and overcome them. This is in where Shinji comes in, lives, and eventually [spoil]overcomes those hardships to realize that this false paradise that was projected in Human Instrumentality was wrong, and that to face reality, while more than likely hurting yourself and others, is the only way to get past and grow from your problems.[/spoil]

And people say that Shinji never emotionally developed/matured and was one of the worst characters ever created. :/ Most of these people hate Shinji because they see themselves in him and despise themselves for it, whether they know it or not.

Evangelion, I believe, is the epitome of one of mankind's greatest mistakes. Throughout the series, man tends to place himself ([SPOIL]Gendo for example[/SPOIL]) on a high plateau-above what he should be. Although, man is a remarkable creature and one that is of high stature, we tend to think more of ourselves than what we should and ultimately build upon pride rather than knowledge. We underestimate other's abilities and ignore warnings because of what may appear to be ultimate truth. NERV relied on the EVAs so much that they ignored an underlying threat that had been with them since the beginning of time itself-man. [SPOIL]I recall that in the movie it was said "This plac was built to keep out terrorist, not the army!"[/SPOIL] That just showed that if you get to caught up in the moment and what's going on aaround you, certain things can go unoticed and unattended to, and ultimately cause your downfall. Anyone can be an enemy, but wear the disguise of a friend or comrad; even you can be your own worst enemy. Don't put your belief in something so imperfect, that isn't always sure to come through (namely human beings) and let foolish pride bring you down. A snug attitude is what keeps one from unpreparing for that which could happen. I'm sure that foul play was suspected, but with the EVAs, who would worry about such as: [SPOIL]NERV being invaded and nearly everyone being killed/Unit 03 being ripped to shreds/SEAL actually succeeding/Rei betraying Gendo's order and original purpose[/SPOIL] to happen and actually act upon it? No one, because of snugness and underestimating your oppopent and the world itself. Anything can happen, and not everything that is unpredictable is predictable.

Funny. No one else has bothered to join in

Psycho

 

[HK]

I am an incredibly amusing person.

Or so you tell yourself.

Why do I have a bad feeling about this

Ask anyone who truly knows me on this forum and they'll tell you about my ramblings.

Yes, and a motorcyclist, bungee jumper, and karate grandmaster. You name it.

I'm defeated. I can't believe that I didn't realize what you meant the first time. >_o

Shame on you. I insist that you remember this for future reference.

Bad memory, can't help. Sometimes I forget why I wake up on my coach (where I always sleep) in the morning.

Let's go for three.

Naw, the "w00t! Scale" couldn't take it. It would overload and destroy the internetssss if not done properly.

True, yet I think that people can reject you without knowing it or even intending to do so. I find the fact that he was rejected by one of the most important people in a child's life to have a more critical effect on him than being rejected by some random stranger/friend/outside family member. Shinji felt rejected by others because he, himself, would never step out of his shell and reach out to touch others [SPOIL]until later in the series[/SPOIL]. When you're throwing your own pity party you tend to look to blame others as much as yourself-that is where the feeling of rejection came from. Just sitting by yourself and watching those by you talking and having fun can feel like rejection, because no one bothers to say anything to you or even care; similar to walking along a busy street or intersection and feeling like no one cares because you go unoticed, people don't mean it, but they can be rejectig you indirectly. Once Misato came along, Shinji felt what it was like to have someone to try to reach out to you, but because of himself, he didn't know exactly how to take it in or react (like you said about his communication skills earlier). If you look at it that way, Shinji really just rejected himself, he denied himself some of the pleasures of life.

While I can share some of your views here (also consider how lonely Shinji truly is without Evangelion such as in episode four as he [spoil]runs away and wanders about,[/spoil] which in restrospect is arguably the most powerful series of scenes and testament about Shinji's character in the entire series), I guess it is just to my opinion that rejection is not the same as neglection. If I were to not talk to everyone person who intrigues me, stranger or not, then I would've rejected a lot of people, no? Simply put, neglect comes from not heeding the ones in need the care that they deserve or desire. Rejection comes from when the ones in need ask for the care and are denied.

I believe that you are spot-on about Misato reaching out to Shinji and him not knowing how to take it, though.

I say that because I've rejected people without the intention or awareness of it. For some people it wouldn't seem like rejection because they're used to pushing people away. You can reject with your attitude, actions, lifestyle, ect. without even knowing or meaning it, just because it seems so natural to you and you're comfortable with it. Not paying attention because someone is the 'quiett type' or 'weird' is a form of rejection to me.

I still hold rejection to be of denying someone attention when they seek it, not just denying someone attention when they don't.

That's where we differ. My relationship with my father never improved, and I really don't care if it doesn't. I can already tell that our backgrounds are completely different, which just makes how we view things and who we are, all the more interesting

Well, maybe not completely different, but there are some key differences. Me without a male role model for the majority of my life (and still true in some ways), living for the first six years of my life in danger of having myself along with my entire family of being thrown out of my house, my mentally retarded uncle always stirring up crap that really sets the whole system off-balance, being put in a private Christian school up until fourth grade then getting placed in a public school in fifth grade (it was an... unique transition), etc.

Yeah, different backgrounds makes things interesting.

I would just like to say: W00t! III

Holy sh*t! You said it!

I didn't mean not having an optimistic character, I meant creating an imbalance by having too many characters who are too similar and have little difference. It can get boring if to many of the characters are the same or cliche.

Evangelion had enough of a contrasting cast of characters to where if they were all depressed that it would still be interesting... hell, they were all in a slump of some form in the last episodes, and those were interesting, no? Point in case.

1 4r3 73|-| 1337 0|\|3!!11!!111

It's a trick of morphology, you have to be born with it XD

... We need a "white flag" smilie.

I love egos, they keep us from acknowledging that which is true and ultimately make us lie to ourselves.

It also gives our confidence a good boast, which is sometimes the only thing that people have going for them, sadly.

You would like Witch Hunter Robin. What do you particularly look for in an anime?

Hm, that's a good question, actually. I don't have a specific type, per say. I can enjoy an anime/manga that is as dreary, confusing, and angst-filled as Neon Genesis Evangelion (my personal favorite at the moment, and will more than likely stay that way for a long time), and yet enjoy other series as light-hearted, funny, and romantic as Oh! My Goddess (something that I recently got into). It just all depends.

I guess the biggest factor for me to enjoy an anime series are the characters and the art. I guess the tendency then would be style over substance, but that is far from the truth as I would rather watch Neon Genesis Evangelion or Monster over Hellsing or Gantz (I love all four of those series, but that is just if I had to choose).

What it boils down to is the simple question, "Does this series feel like the creator is putting his emotion into it and churning out quality work?" That is a rather vague preference because not everyone will connect in the same way, but that is my belief.

If you want specifics, then ask me via PM or AIM.

No, your ego admits untruths.

Says you.

Yes, please refrain from further explaining yourself The feeling is mutual.

I was given valuable advice by from Emma (an old friend of mine) back in 8th grade: "You don't know when the hell to shut up, do you?" Best b*tch-slap I ever got.

I'm not called Psycho for nothing. I have ways of persuading people, you could say and a few instruments of toruture, but its not like they're illegal or anything. I think.

I probably would still kick butt either ways [/ego]

I would hope that it is legal. But if you really think that you can contend with them, then by all means go to the AnimeNation's forum or EvaMonkey's forum and present your case there.

I couldn't leave a good response unreplied.

I'm honored.

Have to stay true to my colors ^_________^

Don't ya know? Having an individual personality nowadays is frowned upon. You'll get your a*s kicked for it.

Yeah, I kind of lost myself in the explanation, but at least my initial meaning was clear. To tell the truth, had I not seen the movie, I wouldn't have had that same view. The movie was eyeopening on a lot of points and finalized the charater's development as well as attributes. I can relate to Asuka in some ways and in other ways I can see her in a plethora of the people around me.

If the final episodes were left as they were and no movie to be brought out, then Gainax wouldn't have made as much money as they would have, and nobody would truly get what the fuggin hell happened. Although, it is interesting to note that there are still morons who don't get either endings, complain and say that the series is crap, and don't even bother to look online for explanations or come up with their own ridiculous theories that have zero credibility to them. It also scares me when I see people say that they prefer the manga version of Evangelion than the animated version of it because the characters are better and they are more believable...

... Which begs the question, have they even seen what good characters are before? One of the few things that Sadamoto did with the manga that was good was provide more insight on Rei and develop her more, otherwise I just can't stand the b*stardizing that he did to the majority of the major cast with their personalities and motivations.

Ah, but that's a rant for another time.

Evangelion, I believe, is the epitome of one of mankind's greatest mistakes. Throughout the series, man tends to place himself ([SPOIL]Gendo for example[/SPOIL]) on a high plateau-above what he should be. Although, man is a remarkable creature and one that is of high stature, we tend to think more of ourselves than what we should and ultimately build upon pride rather than knowledge. We underestimate other's abilities and ignore warnings because of what may appear to be ultimate truth. NERV relied on the EVAs so much that they ignored an underlying threat that had been with them since the beginning of time itself-man. [SPOIL]I recall that in the movie it was said "This plac was built to keep out terrorist, not the army!"[/SPOIL] That just showed that if you get to caught up in the moment and what's going on aaround you, certain things can go unoticed and unattended to, and ultimately cause your downfall. Anyone can be an enemy, but wear the disguise of a friend or comrad; even you can be your own worst enemy. Don't put your belief in something so imperfect, that isn't always sure to come through (namely human beings) and let foolish pride bring you down. A snug attitude is what keeps one from unpreparing for that which could happen. I'm sure that foul play was suspected, but with the EVAs, who would worry about such as: [SPOIL]NERV being invaded and nearly everyone being killed/Unit 03 being ripped to shreds/SEAL actually succeeding/Rei betraying Gendo's order and original purpose[/SPOIL] to happen and actually act upon it? No one, because of snugness and underestimating your oppopent and the world itself. Anything can happen, and not everything that is unpredictable is predictable.

I believe that the actual line was closer to, [spoil]"This place was built to withstand attacks from Angels, not terrorists!"[/spoil] And I'm assuming you mean [spoil]Unit-Two being ripped to shreds and Seele actually bringing about Third Impact,[/spoil], right? ;D

Well, concerning your thoughts itself, I would agree that arrogance is a part of it (see Gendo's line when he and Fuyutski travel to the Dead Sea and Gendo's comments about science), the whole of Evangelion to me is basically [spoil]a rite of passage from breaking away from the comfort and security of your mother to go out into the world to face reality and to accept who you and others are, as well as love yourself and others.[/spoil]

There are a good number of reasons for me to back this claim up, but this post is long enough. I'll give my reasons and evidence in my next post and I'll see how you maul over that thought.

I'll make you appreciate Evangelion, dammit!

Funny. No one else has bothered to join in

Not suprising. These big posts must frighten them.

 

[Akilah Imani]

Or so you tell yourself.

*gasp* I don't talk to myself....that's crazy.

Ask anyone who truly knows me on this forum and they'll tell you about my ramblings.

They'll probably ramble about your ramblings :/

I'm defeated. I can't believe that I didn't realize what you meant the first time. >_o

'Tis okay. My ego is big enough to not tell you 'I told you so' so I'm not going to say 'I told you so' no matter how much I want to say 'I told you so'

Don't worry.

Bad memory, can't help. Sometimes I forget why I wake up on my coach (where I always sleep) in the morning.

It's the rule of the intarwebz. We commonly forget why we do things that we normally do even though we already know why

Naw, the "w00t! Scale" couldn't take it. It would overload and destroy the internetssss if not done properly.

If we do it, then we'll go down in history.

While I can share some of your views here (also consider how lonely Shinji truly is without Evangelion such as in episode four as he [spoil]runs away and wanders about,[/spoil] which in restrospect is arguably the most powerful series of scenes and testament about Shinji's character in the entire series), I guess it is just to my opinion that rejection is not the same as neglection. If I were to not talk to everyone person who intrigues me, stranger or not, then I would've rejected a lot of people, no? Simply put, neglect comes from not heeding the ones in need the care that they deserve or desire. Rejection comes from when the ones in need ask for the care and are denied.

Well here's where we agree: They're similar in some ways, but both are still different and have their own meaning.

I believe that you are spot-on about Misato reaching out to Shinji and him not knowing how to take it, though.

That's what I love about me. I'm spot-on and on-spot. Yes, Shinji does have some major communication deficiencies, which is why I think that it was kind of complicated for Misato to understand some of his actions and words at first. Although, she figured out that Shinji had his own way of communicting later on, and she was able to decipher the meaning behind some of the things he did and said.

I still hold rejection to be of denying someone attention when they seek it, not just denying someone attention when they don't.

It's all based off of how you look at it. I just see 'not attending to someone' as rejection or a form of it, for clarification. Though no worries, we both have different views and oppinions.

Well, maybe not completely different, but there are some key differences. Me without a male role model for the majority of my life (and still true in some ways), living for the first six years of my life in danger of having myself along with my entire family of being thrown out of my house, my mentally retarded uncle always stirring up crap that really sets the whole system off-balance, being put in a private Christian school up until fourth grade then getting placed in a public school in fifth grade (it was an... unique transition), etc.

Yeah, different backgrounds makes things interesting.

My family is what I like to call 'dysfunctional' as well. We're not completely different, I can relate in a couple of ways.

Holy sh*t! You said it!

What'll happen if I go for #4 o_o

Evangelion had enough of a contrasting cast of characters to where if they were all depressed that it would still be interesting... hell, they were all in a slump of some form in the last episodes, and those were interesting, no? Point in case.

Yes, they have their similarities, but the way that they came out of those situations is what keeps the balance. Different personalities and development based off of where they came from and what occurred in their life is what keeps things interesting. If everyone was happy-go-lucky I'd puke -_-

... We need a "white flag" smilie.

Great suggestion. I'll PM Serebii....oh wait...no...nevermind XD

It also gives our confidence a good boast, which is sometimes the only thing that people have going for them, sadly.

Agreed.

Hm, that's a good question, actually. I don't have a specific type, per say. I can enjoy an anime/manga that is as dreary, confusing, and angst-filled as Neon Genesis Evangelion (my personal favorite at the moment, and will more than likely stay that way for a long time), and yet enjoy other series as light-hearted, funny, and romantic as Oh! My Goddess (something that I recently got into). It just all depends.

I guess the biggest factor for me to enjoy an anime series are the characters and the art. I guess the tendency then would be style over substance, but that is far from the truth as I would rather watch Neon Genesis Evangelion or Monster over Hellsing or Gantz (I love all four of those series, but that is just if I had to choose).

What it boils down to is the simple question, "Does this series feel like the creator is putting his emotion into it and churning out quality work?" That is a rather vague preference because not everyone will connect in the same way, but that is my belief.

If you want specifics, then ask me via PM or AIM.

Oh yeah! Definitely PM-worthy ;D

Says you.

Which means a lot, considering I am, after all, me

I was given valuable advice by from Emma (an old friend of mine) back in 8th grade: "You don't know when the hell to shut up, do you?" Best b*tch-slap I ever got.

That's okay, I tend to make things go from bad to worse with my sarcasm and snippy attitude. Try grounded for a whole year and nearly getting all the life knocked out of you ^__________^ I really need to work on learning how to shut up, because I just keep going >_>

I would hope that it is legal. But if you really think that you can contend with them, then by all means go to the AnimeNation's forum or EvaMonkey's forum and present your case there.

Okay. I'll just tell them that I'm packin' heat for anyone who thinks that I'm wrong XD

And its legal heat :3

I'm honored.

I should be saying that, since you've managed to put up with me fore this long.

Don't ya know? Having an individual personality nowadays is frowned upon. You'll get your a*s kicked for it.

That's why I'm wanted in four different countries. Being a free-thinker is illegal.

If the final episodes were left as they were and no movie to be brought out, then Gainax wouldn't have made as much money as they would have, and nobody would truly get what the fuggin hell happened. Although, it is interesting to note that there are still morons who don't get either endings, complain and say that the series is crap, and don't even bother to look online for explanations or come up with their own ridiculous theories that have zero credibility to them. It also scares me when I see people say that they prefer the manga version of Evangelion than the animated version of it because the characters are better and they are more believable...

... Which begs the question, have they even seen what good characters are before? One of the few things that Sadamoto did with the manga that was good was provide more insight on Rei and develop her more, otherwise I just can't stand the b*stardizing that he did to the majority of the major cast with their personalities and motivations.

Ah, but that's a rant for another time.

I usually prefer the manga to the anime, but that's for my own personal reasons, I can't speak for everyone else :x Although, I have never read the Evangelion manga (Don't think they sell it at any of my bookstores) and I can't quite say -for sure- which one I'd prefer or think is better, considering the fact that Evangelion is a standout-anime. This could be one of those rare occasions where I like the anime more than the manga

But not actually asking questions about the movie's ending and message is imbecilic, considering the fact that you didn't even bother to try and understand it. That's similar to when people don't understand other people's lifestyles, and instead, of gaining insight and broadening their perspective, they tend to judge them. This is where intolerance and discrimination enter in.

But, yeah we can't rant about that now, no matter how tempting.

I believe that the actual line was closer to, [spoil]"This place was built to withstand attacks from Angels, not terrorists!"[/spoil] And I'm assuming you mean [spoil]Unit-Two being ripped to shreds and Seele actually bringing about Third Impact,[/spoil], right? ;D

Well, concerning your thoughts itself, I would agree that arrogance is a part of it (see Gendo's line when he and Fuyutski travel to the Dead Sea and Gendo's comments about science), the whole of Evangelion to me is basically [spoil]a rite of passage from breaking away from the comfort and security of your mother to go out into the world to face reality and to accept who you and others are, as well as love yourself and others.[/spoil]

There are a good number of reasons for me to back this claim up, but this post is long enough. I'll give my reasons and evidence in my next post and I'll see how you maul over that thought.

Well, Evangelion can't be summed up in one post There's so much to it, but I agree with you here. So, please do expand on your theory, I'm interested to see what you have to say.

Oh, and thanks for the quotes, I can't remember them right off the top of my head >_o

I'll make you appreciate Evangelion, dammit!

Nooooooo! I don't wanna!

Not suprising. These big posts must frighten them.

I blame you for that

Psycho

 

[son_gokan]

Evangelion's overrated. All they ever do is this: they go and kill some angel, and then Asuka(or some girl) gets naked and the eppie ends. Eva= crap.

 

[HK]

I've already told a few things in the PM, so I'll just go ahead and do whatever the hell I'm going to do.

Well here's where we agree: They're similar in some ways, but both are still different and have their own meaning.

True, although I believe that that key difference between rejection and neglection is very important. It changes to view of Shinji not receiving proper attention to Shinji creating his own hell-hole and not being able to get out of it. That is what happens for a lot of people who are in a condition to better themselves and their situation and yet the only person who makes it worse for themselves or themselves.

That's what I love about me. I'm spot-on and on-spot. Yes, Shinji does have some major communication deficiencies, which is why I think that it was kind of complicated for Misato to understand some of his actions and words at first. Although, she figured out that Shinji had his own way of communicting later on, and she was able to decipher the meaning behind some of the things he did and said.

Well, Misato essentially gave up on trying to change Shinji's habits later on in the series, although she does still attempt to help him out and change him, or at least guide him to make the right choice. Shinji did enjoy that aspect, but when Asuka comes to live with the two of them, she can't stand his weak, defeatist attitude and demands a change from him. Shinji gets conflicting messages and ultimately doesn't know what to do.

It's all based off of how you look at it. I just see 'not attending to someone' as rejection or a form of it, for clarification. Though no worries, we both have different views and oppinions.

True, and different views and opinions are why we are all different, and in this case, why Evangelion is still yet to be completely deciphered and understood even after ten years when it first came out.

My family is what I like to call 'disfunctional' as well. We're not completely different, I can relate in a couple of ways.

I prefer the term "unconventional." We don't follow the norm, per say, but it still somehow works out in the end. Well, at least that is what I hope to say years later when I can rightfully reflect back on more of my experiences.

Yes, they have their similarities, but the way that they came out of those situations is what keeps the balance. Different personalities and development based off of where they came from and what occurred in their life is what keeps things interesting. If everyone was happy-go-lucky I'd puke -_-

Well, the string of episodes (ten to thirteen) are more or less happy-go-lucky in some aspects as it had that light-hearted feel to them. Episode fourteen was the first sign for me that the series would be quite different from other mecha anime (well, I knew that beforehand, but it solidified my belief). Episode fifteen went back to some of the earlier episodes in its feel, but it still felt like something dark was going about the whole thing.

That's okay, I tend to make things go from bad to worse with my sarcasm and snippy attitude. Try grounded for a whole year and nearly getting all the life knocked out of you ^__________^ I really need to work on learning how to shut up, because I just keep going >_>

Sounds fun.

Okay. I'll just tell them that I'm packin' heat for anyone who thinks that I'm wrong XD

And its legal heat :3

And I'll be a troll who steps in to call your views stupid.

I should be saying that, since you've managed to put up with me fore this long.

No, I should be the one saying that... wait, I already did.

I usually prefer the manga to the anime, but that's for my own personal reasons, I can't speak for everyone else :x Although, I have never read the Evangelion manga (Don't think they sell it at any of my bookstores) and I can't quite say -for sure- which one I'd prefer or think is better, considering the fact that Evangelion is a standout-anime. This could be one of those rare occasions where I like the anime more than the manga

I usually prefer manga over anime as well for my own reasons, which seems to be the general belief for many fans of anime and manga. However, I do prefer the anime versions of Neon Genesis Evangelion, Elfen Lied, Golden Boy, and Fooly Cooly over their manga counterparts.

And if you have any respect for how characters are properly handled and seeing emotion behind the story, you will prefer the anime version of Evangelion over the manga version... Unless you are a Rei fanboy and having more appearances from her in the manga is your thing. Which, you are not, so therefore in this case: anime >>>>>>>>>>>> manga.

But not actually asking questions about the movie's ending and message is imbecilic, considering the fact that you didn't even bother to try and understand it. That's similar to when people don't understand other people's lifestyles, and instead, of gaining insight and broadening their perspective, they tend to judge them. This is where intolerance and discrimination enter in.

You mean like son_gokan above? Yeah, it's frustrating to have to deal with people who are not only ignornat, but also ignorant, arrogant, and just plain fuggin stupid. People need to look past their little boxed view of things. After watching Evangelion and getting the messages and themes at the end, I sure as hell know that it solidified my wavering beliefs on that matter.

But, yeah we can't rant about that now, no matter how tempting.

Damn it, and I had an entire rant ready in my head too.

Well, Evangelion can't be summed up in one post There's so much to it, but I agree with you here. So, please do expand on your theory, I'm interested to see what you have to say.

Actually, it can be -- that is if there is no character limit to the post and the person has a few weeks of typing time available to him or her.

Oh, and thanks for the quotes, I can't remember them right off the top of my head >_o

No problem. As for why I could remember them, I just saw the movie again a few days ago, so there you have it.

Nooooooo! I don't wanna!

Too bad. I'll suffocate you with the emotional, psychological ride that is Neon Genesis Evangelion. ;D

I blame you for that

People are always quick to blame me, but for good reason, I suppose.

Now then, that said...

Evangelion's overrated. All they ever do is this: they go and kill some angel, and then Asuka(or some girl) gets naked and the eppie ends. Eva= crap.

[IMG200]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/HellKorn/BSMeter.gif[/IMG200]

I'll let you have it easy for this post. If you do not ever reply to it, however, then it solidifies the fact that you are a moronic coward.

Firstly, have you seen Evangelion in its entirety. If you said yes, then secondly, did you even understand what happened behind it all with the creator, the crew and cast working on it, the company working on it, and about the movies that ensued? Thirdly, and continuing on, do you even think that you even begin to understand with your apparently feeble mind exactly what it all meant? Fourthly, if you believe Evangelion to be "crap," then what the hell do you believe to be "good"?

Kid, I find it pathetic that someone who is apparently obsessed with Dragon Ball to be criticizing something as deep and thoughtful as Evangelion. We are all biased in our opinions and views, but unlike you, some of us have open-minds and are able to comprehend something that should be obvious if you have any grey matter in your head at all.

 

[Akilah Imani]

I've already told a few things in the PM, so I'll just go ahead and do whatever the hell I'm going to do.

True, although I believe that that key difference between rejection and neglection is very important. It changes to view of Shinji not receiving proper attention to Shinji creating his own hell-hole and not being able to get out of it. That is what happens for a lot of people who are in a condition to better themselves and their situation and yet the only person who makes it worse for themselves or themselves.

Which makes me wonder, does one go by the defintion that you may find in a dictionary or by the experiences that they have been through? There is a key difference between the two words, just as there are some simiarities. I guess its just how you perceive things because words can have different meaning to various individuals, aside from the common definition.

For example pain. What is pain to one can be totally different from what is pain to another. Its all about perspective.

However, I do agree, which is what I'm trying to say.

Well, Misato essentially gave up on trying to change Shinji's habits later on in the series, although she does still attempt to help him out and change him, or at least guide him to make the right choice. Shinji did enjoy that aspect, but when Asuka comes to live with the two of them, she can't stand his weak, defeatist attitude and demands a change from him. Shinji gets conflicting messages and ultimately doesn't know what to do.

Just like a woman to come in and turn a guy's world upside down

Shinji's reaction is one example of why the female specie is an enigma to the male specie XD Aside from the fact that he had communication issues.

True, and different views and opinions are why we are all different, and in this case, why Evangelion is still yet to be completely deciphered and understood even after ten years when it first came out.

That's what makes it a good topic of discussion and a standout anime. Even after all this time its still alive and kicking as if it were a new series.

I prefer the term "unconventional." We don't follow the norm, per say, but it still somehow works out in the end. Well, at least that is what I hope to say years later when I can rightfully reflect back on more of my experiences.

Ah, very well. So mine is the 'dysfunctional' one. I notice history repeats itself in my family; there's an ongoing generational curse that has yet to be broken.

Well, the string of episodes (ten to thirteen) are more or less happy-go-lucky in some aspects as it had that light-hearted feel to them. Episode fourteen was the first sign for me that the series would be quite different from other mecha anime (well, I knew that beforehand, but it solidified my belief). Episode fifteen went back to some of the earlier episodes in its feel, but it still felt like something dark was going about the whole thing.

Really, I'm referring to series with happy-go-lucky characters that are always happy-go-lucky in a happy-go-lucky setting -_-; Evangelion has an overall dark theme to it; the happy-go-lucky moments and episodes are just a breather and used for character interaction outside of just the EVAs and NERV. They also help us to get to know the characters a little more.

Sounds fun.

Better than any amusement park I've ever been to.

And I'll be a troll who steps in to call your views stupid.

That would be interesting to see, but we should leave that up to son_gokan

No, I should be the one saying that... wait, I already did.

I'm stealing your words

I usually prefer manga over anime as well for my own reasons, which seems to be the general belief for many fans of anime and manga. However, I do prefer the anime versions of Neon Genesis Evangelion, Elfen Lied, Golden Boy, and Fooly Cooly over their manga counterparts.

And if you have any respect for how characters are properly handled and seeing emotion behind the story, you will prefer the anime version of Evangelion over the manga version... Unless you are a Rei fanboy and having more appearances from her in the manga is your thing. Which, you are not, so therefore in this case: anime >>>>>>>>>>>> manga.

At times the manga just captures a certain attribute that can't be found in the anime. You're allowed to imagine and dream within the manga just as you do when reading a book. There's a certain amount of originality and creativity to it that you can't find on television. However, I agree that some mangas are meant to be animes (Especially FLCL >_>)

You mean like son_gokan above? Yeah, it's frustrating to have to deal with people who are not only ignornat, but also ignorant, arrogant, and just plain fuggin stupid. People need to look past their little boxed view of things. After watching Evangelion and getting the messages and themes at the end, I sure as hell know that it solidified my wavering beliefs on that matter.

Most of the people who are like that only go for the mainstream animes that are made for commercialization rather than content and quality.

Damn it, and I had an entire rant ready in my head too.

Actually, it can be -- that is if there is no character limit to the post and the person has a few weeks of typing time available to him or her.

If there were no character limit, you'd go nuts :3

Especially if you keep all of your rants in memory.

No problem. As for why I could remember them, I just saw the movie again a few days ago, so there you have it.

I had the movie recorded on my DVR, but it was, accidently, deleted ;_; Oh well, at least I got a few hundred views in.

Too bad. I'll suffocate you with the emotional, psychological ride that is Neon Genesis Evangelion. ;D

My mental state already excedes that of habitual insanity, so how far do you plan to suffocate me? :x

People are always quick to blame me, but for good reason, I suppose.

Yeah, its fun and better than taking accountability.

Evangelion's overrated. All they ever do is this: they go and kill some angel, and then Asuka(or some girl) gets naked and the eppie ends. Eva= crap.

I could already tell by your unintelligible, uninformed, and grammatically incoherent statement that you have no idea what you are talking about. You're entitled to your oppinion, yes, as a matter of fact, the view of someone who dislikes the series is welcomed, but you failed to express yourself in a responsible manner that could be clearly perceived by other members. Not only that, but you have broken a rule by flaming and I'm possitive that you have never viewed more than 75% of the series itself, so what draws you to such brash and imbecelic comments?

Psycho

 

[HK]

Which makes me wonder, does one go by the defintion that you may find in a dictionary or by the experiences that they have been through? There is a key difference between the two words, just as there are some simiarities. I guess its just how you perceive things because words can have different meaning to various individuals, aside from the common definition.

Well, an interesting matter that the ending of the television series picked up on that the ending of the movie didn't was [spoil]the idea about reality is just simply how you perceive it. That idea isn't entirely original, mind you, but realistically that is about the truest statement that I have ever heard in my life.[/spoil] How you perceive things compared to another person can and more than likely will be different, and really there isn't always one "right answer," so to speak.

But then again if you make things too general and easy to answer, it tends to p*ss off typical Atheists, so I can't safely say that despite me being an Agnostic.

For example pain. What is pain to one can be totally different from what is pain to another. Its all about perspective.

Exactly, although I think that everyone can agree is something in which one or more individuals are hurt in some fashion.

However, I do agree, which is what I'm trying to say.

Can say so much and yet mean so little. ;D

Just like a woman to come in and turn a guy's world upside down

There is some irony in that statement, for both the series and in real life.

Shinji's reaction is one example of why the female specie is an enigma to the male specie XD Aside from the fact that he had communication issues.

Naw, it's the fact that the female species has this preconceived notion about the male species and therefore offends them to the point where when men encounter them, women act rashly against. It's women-kind that is the problem for not being honest and direct as males tend to be.

That's what makes it a good topic of discussion and a standout anime. Even after all this time its still alive and kicking as if it were a new series.

Well, not so much it feels as if it is being discussed as a new series -- it has that "classic" type of feel that you can get when talking about an old but amazing sci-fi movie from a few decades past, such as Blade Runner or A Clockwork Orange. However, it is one of the more discussed anime series compared to others. Personally I find that to be ultimately important considering that while some of the RahXephon and Fafner fans seem to say that Evangelion is overrated, that very few talk of such series. And it isn't like Narutards when it comes to Naruto, either, because most discussions of Evangelion are rather intelligent ones, save for the Rei and Asuka fanboy talk, not to mention the "Shinji x Kaworu smex!!1111" ramblings from fangirls. >_o

Ah, very well. So mine is the 'disfunctional' one. I notice history repeats itself in my family; there's an ongoing generational curse that has yet to be broken.

Naw, it's "unconventional." A dysfunctional one would be where no one could ever be happy and they all kill each other, ala hillibiy style.

Really, I'm referring to series with happy-go-lucky characters that are always happy-go-lucky in a happy-go-lucky setting -_-; Evangelion has an overall dark theme to it; the happy-go-lucky moments and episodes are just a breather and used for character interaction outside of just the EVAs and NERD. They also help us to get to know the characters a little more.

I believe that you mean Nerv. Meh, typos happen now and then.

On that note, I find that those who just like the first half of the series but hate the second half like shounen anime/manga more. Coincidence? I think not.

Better than any amusement park I've ever been to.

Kibbles and bits, my dear. Kibbles and bits.

That would be interesting to see, but we should leave that up to son_gokan

Speaking of which, I wonder if he'll ever reply? *coughhellnocough*

I'm stealing your words

Damn you.

At times the manga just captures a certain attribute that can't be found in the anime. You're allowed to imagine and dream within the manga just as you do when reading a book. There's a certain amount of originality and creativity to it that you can't find on television. However, I agree that some mangas are meant to be animes (Especially FLCL >_>)

Meh, well, I will tell you to read the manga version of Evangelion. It lacks the psychological depth, much of the symbolism of what happens to characters, as well as any real character development handling themselves (save for Rei, and arguably Hikari at one point).

Truthfully I wish Sadamoto had done what was the original storyline planned for Evangelion, but it sadly turns out not to be true. And realistically, while the series might not have been famous had it taken the course that was thought of before it (and not suffered a budget problem), I would certainly say that it would've been bloody fuggin amazing. Then again, I might not have enjoyed the series as much because the imperfections due to budget and psychological problems experienced by those who made it was some of the draw as it felt obvious when watching the series. Made you connect more with it.

Most of the people who are like that only go for the mainstream animes that are made for commercialization rather than content and quality.

The same who put Love Hina and Naruto in their top ten anime and manga lists, no? :/ I must admit to me enjoying the latter of the two, but seriously, I see very little shounen anime/manga out there right now that will remain as a classic for years to come.

If there were no character limit, you'd go nuts :3

Especially if you keep all of your rants in memory.

Who says that I can't? ;D

On that note, I'm reminded that I didn't further explain why I believed what Evangelion was and still is. I'll get onto that right now.

Alright, earlier I said that Evangelion is a lot of things, but to me it is simply [spoil]a story about discovering that you must break away from security (i.e. your mother in this instance), come to terms with the problems that you and others have once you realize them, and then begin to accept and love both yourself and others.[/spoil]

For emphasis: [spoil]Throughout the series we see the characters having desires to reach out to others and yet in the end to only reject both what others might want and what they want. They found themselves seeing what they want and yet afraid to get it because they might be hurt along the way, and ironically enough they are hurt because they don't take that chance.

Whether it be camaraderie, love, desire, comfort, etc. it is there for all characters (just to note, I've never been what you would call a "shipper" or a supporter of romance in any sense, but I find characters interactions of all sorts interesting, whether it be through a light-hearted romance series such as Oh! My Goddess or the brutality and betrayal of wanting to kill the person who took everything away from you as in the case of Berserk -- it's all good). And admittedly, the last two that I mentioned are incredibly important in the long run as our desire for finding comfort can really both help and pain us countless, countless times. This is shared from each of the characters in the series to varying degrees, be it Shinji's supressed desire to find someone to give him the care and attention that he always lacked in his life, Misato's less than stable "make-up father" and drowning herself to throw away that idea (that was another interesting bit in the ending for the television series as it gave a new twist in a sense to Misato's and Kaji's relationship), or Gendo's way less than obvious but still faintly there feelings of protection (yes, it exists, believe it or not). Each and everyone single one of these shows that the characters fail to understand themselves and those around them, and rightfully the "AT (Absolute Terror) Fields" are what symbolize this whole problem that humanity encounters every single second on this planet.[/spoil]

Whoo, I'll get into specifics in my next post, just to note. I ain't done yet.

I had the movie recorded on my DVR, but it was, accidently, deleted ;_; Oh well, at least I got a few hundred views in.

View it a few hundred more times. Yeah, it is that good. And if you don't feel like doing so, at least watch the part where "Komm Susser Todd" plays in the background. That was another thing about The End of Evangelion -- it had an amazing background musical score.

My mental state already excedes that of habitual insanity, so how far do you plan to suffocate me? :x

Until we have no more to talk about, which, considering that this is about Evangelion, will only happen if one of us stops replying to the other.

Yeah, its fun and better than taking accountability.

B*stards. >: o

Oh, one more thing. Do you listen to rock, by any chance? More so specifically, do you listen to a band called Staind?